I would disagree. Not sure it works great elsewhere and it certainly has driven up tuition elsewhere.

Simple - want your kids to go to private school then make the sacrifices for them to do so. This is what my wife and I do. No need to ask for others to fund the education of my kids. If that isn't possible look for schools with strong financial aid programs. If you don't have kids and just want private school to be available to more kids then donate your money to private schools financial aid programs. More govt involvement isn't the answer.

And honestly private vs public school really isn't the answer either. It's the fact that so many parents plop their kids in front of a PlayStation or TV when their home and then depend on a school for their kids education with no active involvement. Parents need to get back to being the primary educators of their children and using schools to support this mission. Whole different debate though…

Alta said:

---

I would disagree. Not sure it works great elsewhere and it certainly has driven up tuition elsewhere.

Simple - want your kids to go to private school then make the sacrifices for them to do so. This is what my wife and I do. No need to ask for others to fund the education of my kids. If that isn't possible look for schools with strong financial aid programs. If you don't have kids and just want private school to be available to more kids then donate your money to private schools financial aid programs. More govt involvement isn't the answer.

And honestly private vs public school really isn't the answer either. It's the fact that so many parents plop their kids in front of a PlayStation or TV when their home and then depend on a school for their kids education with no active involvement. Parents need to get back to being the primary educators of their children and using schools to support this mission. Whole different debate though…

---

Thank you! EOT.

the most cool guy said:

---

Howdy, it is me! said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

So it's limited to 100,000 students? WTF. That's useless.

---

It's a billion dollar bill. Whatever is left after administration costs will be used for the participants. So, likely, less than 100,000.

---

It sounds like they're also going to focus on using the funds for kids moving from public to private rather than helping out parents already paying, and I saw the bull**** about focusing on "low income" families.

I'm assuming if I already have kids in private school and make $600k a year, this will do absolutely nothing to help me.

---

If you make 600k this bill, and law, is not for you. You are a very small minority..

agsalaska said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

Howdy, it is me! said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

So it's limited to 100,000 students? WTF. That's useless.

---

It's a billion dollar bill. Whatever is left after administration costs will be used for the participants. So, likely, less than 100,000.

---

It sounds like they're also going to focus on using the funds for kids moving from public to private rather than helping out parents already paying, and I saw the bull**** about focusing on "low income" families.

I'm assuming if I already have kids in private school and make $600k a year, this will do absolutely nothing to help me.

---

If you make 600k this bill, and law, is not for you. You are a very small minority..

---

It should be for everyone who pays property taxes, at minimum. The idea that, if you make more money than most people, you should somehow get less of a say in where your tax dollars go with respect to education is absurd and wrong. We need a full on school choice bill. **** the failing public school system and the people who are desperate to prop it up. Make them compete for tax dollars.

the most cool guy said:

---

agsalaska said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

Howdy, it is me! said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

So it's limited to 100,000 students? WTF. That's useless.

---

It's a billion dollar bill. Whatever is left after administration costs will be used for the participants. So, likely, less than 100,000.

---

It sounds like they're also going to focus on using the funds for kids moving from public to private rather than helping out parents already paying, and I saw the bull**** about focusing on "low income" families.

I'm assuming if I already have kids in private school and make $600k a year, this will do absolutely nothing to help me.

---

If you make 600k this bill, and law, is not for you. You are a very small minority..

---

It should be for everyone who pays property taxes, at minimum. The idea that, if you make more money than most people, you should somehow get less of a say in where your tax dollars go with respect to education is absurd and wrong. We need a full on school choice bill. **** the failing public school system and the people who are desperate to prop it up. Make them compete for tax dollars.

---

Yea.

That's not how this works.


It will always and was always going to disproportionately help lower earning families over high earning families. That's just the way the math goes.

agsalaska said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

agsalaska said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

Howdy, it is me! said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

So it's limited to 100,000 students? WTF. That's useless.

---

It's a billion dollar bill. Whatever is left after administration costs will be used for the participants. So, likely, less than 100,000.

---

It sounds like they're also going to focus on using the funds for kids moving from public to private rather than helping out parents already paying, and I saw the bull**** about focusing on "low income" families.

I'm assuming if I already have kids in private school and make $600k a year, this will do absolutely nothing to help me.

---

If you make 600k this bill, and law, is not for you. You are a very small minority..

---

It should be for everyone who pays property taxes, at minimum. The idea that, if you make more money than most people, you should somehow get less of a say in where your tax dollars go with respect to education is absurd and wrong. We need a full on school choice bill. **** the failing public school system and the people who are desperate to prop it up. Make them compete for tax dollars.

---

Yea.

That's not how this works.


It will always and was always going to disproportionately help lower earning families over high earning families. That's just the way the math goes.

---

That's how it works in Florida and several other states. It can and should be done here.

the most cool guy said:

---

agsalaska said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

agsalaska said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

Howdy, it is me! said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

So it's limited to 100,000 students? WTF. That's useless.

---

It's a billion dollar bill. Whatever is left after administration costs will be used for the participants. So, likely, less than 100,000.

---

It sounds like they're also going to focus on using the funds for kids moving from public to private rather than helping out parents already paying, and I saw the bull**** about focusing on "low income" families.

I'm assuming if I already have kids in private school and make $600k a year, this will do absolutely nothing to help me.

---

If you make 600k this bill, and law, is not for you. You are a very small minority..

---

It should be for everyone who pays property taxes, at minimum. The idea that, if you make more money than most people, you should somehow get less of a say in where your tax dollars go with respect to education is absurd and wrong. We need a full on school choice bill. **** the failing public school system and the people who are desperate to prop it up. Make them compete for tax dollars.

---

Yea.

That's not how this works.


It will always and was always going to disproportionately help lower earning families over high earning families. That's just the way the math goes.

---

That's how it works in Florida and several other states. It can and should be done here.

---

No it doesn't.

There is nowhere in this world that a flat payment proportionately helps higher earners and lower earners. Again that not how math works.

It's ok too. That is really not the goal.

Raptor said:

---

" Under Friday's proposal, that would mean roughly up to 100,000 students who want to enroll into an accredited private school could participate in the program. Texas public schools currently enroll about 5.5 million children."

This is 1.8% of ALL public school children currently being served. The bill would also likely have teacher raises and an increase to public school funding.


"This session, the Senate wants to increase teacher pay by $4,000. Teachers in rural areas would receive an additional $6,000 pay bump a total of $10,000."

and

"Earlier this week, the House and Senate also proposed allocating $4.85 billion in new funds to the state's public schools"

With the current state of public education, losing 1.8% of students to private school (some who will undoubtedly return to public schools), while raising teacher salaries and increasing funding to public schools is something that I can support.

No one is forcing families of public school students to use the vouchers.

---

it's not a "raise" for teachers. It would be a one time payment or the district could spread it out over one year.

Logos Stick said:

---

I haven't read the bill, but wouldn't the bill only apply to those institutions that use vouchers?! If so, then we would still have the same rights we have now.

The Dems have control of the House so vouchers are not happening anyway imo.

---

In Texas? Or DC? Dems don't have control in either chamber.

Vouchers are happening in Texas. Because Greg Abbott is demanding that they happen. Several Republican representatives opposed his voucher plan last session, and he made sure none of them were re-elected, and also made sure their replacements were in favor of vouchers.

This isn't going to work out the way some people think it will. I think we we will see private schools raising tuition (why not?), maybe private schools will have to have the STAAR test, and the government may be looking into what is taught at private/home schools.

Meanwhile the west Texas interests pushing vouchers will get rich, but "we listen and we don't judge."

agsalaska said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

agsalaska said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

agsalaska said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

Howdy, it is me! said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

So it's limited to 100,000 students? WTF. That's useless.

---

It's a billion dollar bill. Whatever is left after administration costs will be used for the participants. So, likely, less than 100,000.

---

It sounds like they're also going to focus on using the funds for kids moving from public to private rather than helping out parents already paying, and I saw the bull**** about focusing on "low income" families.

I'm assuming if I already have kids in private school and make $600k a year, this will do absolutely nothing to help me.

---

If you make 600k this bill, and law, is not for you. You are a very small minority..

---

It should be for everyone who pays property taxes, at minimum. The idea that, if you make more money than most people, you should somehow get less of a say in where your tax dollars go with respect to education is absurd and wrong. We need a full on school choice bill. **** the failing public school system and the people who are desperate to prop it up. Make them compete for tax dollars.

---

Yea.

That's not how this works.


It will always and was always going to disproportionately help lower earning families over high earning families. That's just the way the math goes.

---

That's how it works in Florida and several other states. It can and should be done here.

---

No it doesn't.

There is nowhere in this world that a flat payment proportionately helps higher earners and lower earners. Again that not how math works.

It's ok too. That is really not the goal.

---

The 600k families aren't going to get the flat payment at all.

Therein lies the problem. A welfare program by design.

Alta said:

---

I would disagree. Not sure it works great elsewhere and it certainly has driven up tuition elsewhere.

Simple - want your kids to go to private school then make the sacrifices for them to do so. This is what my wife and I do. No need to ask for others to fund the education of my kids. If that isn't possible look for schools with strong financial aid programs. If you don't have kids and just want private school to be available to more kids then donate your money to private schools financial aid programs. More govt involvement isn't the answer.

And honestly private vs public school really isn't the answer either. It's the fact that so many parents plop their kids in front of a PlayStation or TV when their home and then depend on a school for their kids education with no active involvement. Parents need to get back to being the primary educators of their children and using schools to support this mission. Whole different debate though…

---

Being in a state where it DOES work and being an active participant, I will disagree with your disagreement. None of the objections from the pearl clutchers and hand wringers from either side have become real life issues here.

And the government is ALREADY involved. They are spending the money for the kid whether they are in a public school or not, so your objection makes no sense.That is what is ridiculous about all of these objections. I absolutely 100% believe the public education system should be dismantled and handled privately. All of it. But there has to be a way to do it. Education is already THE most socialized industry in the country, and you can't just unsocialize it cold turkey. The infrastructure does not exist in that scale. Vouchers are the only viable path without causing absolute chaos for a generation of kids.

No, it is not perfect, and no, it will not be implemented fairly, but this is one strategy that HAS to be borrowed from the left. Get it in place and make it more and more free market every year so that the market can be made and get its feet under it at the scale that it needs to be to work.

Phatbob said:

---

Alta said:

---

I would disagree. Not sure it works great elsewhere and it certainly has driven up tuition elsewhere.

Simple - want your kids to go to private school then make the sacrifices for them to do so. This is what my wife and I do. No need to ask for others to fund the education of my kids. If that isn't possible look for schools with strong financial aid programs. If you don't have kids and just want private school to be available to more kids then donate your money to private schools financial aid programs. More govt involvement isn't the answer.

And honestly private vs public school really isn't the answer either. It's the fact that so many parents plop their kids in front of a PlayStation or TV when their home and then depend on a school for their kids education with no active involvement. Parents need to get back to being the primary educators of their children and using schools to support this mission. Whole different debate though…

---

Being in a state where it DOES work and being an active participant, I will disagree with your disagreement. None of the objections from the pearl clutchers and hand wringers from either side have become real life issues here.

And the government is ALREADY involved. They are spending the money for the kid whether they are in a public school or not, so your objection makes no sense.That is what is ridiculous about all of these objections. I absolutely 100% believe the public education system should be dismantled and handled privately. All of it. But there has to be a way to do it. Education is already THE most socialized industry in the country, and you can't just unsocialize it cold turkey. The infrastructure does not exist in that scale. Vouchers are the only viable path without causing absolute chaos for a generation of kids.

No, it is not perfect, and no, it will not be implemented fairly, but this is one strategy that HAS to be borrowed from the left. Get it in place and make it more and more free market every year so that the market can be made and get its feet under it at the scale that it needs to be to work.

---

Would you be willing to share which state?

ETA: I'm not sure I agree with the comment that they are spending that money whether in public school or not. The billion dollars for this bill is coming out of the general fund, not the school fund.

Tom Fox said:

---

agsalaska said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

agsalaska said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

agsalaska said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

Howdy, it is me! said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

So it's limited to 100,000 students? WTF. That's useless.

---

It's a billion dollar bill. Whatever is left after administration costs will be used for the participants. So, likely, less than 100,000.

---

It sounds like they're also going to focus on using the funds for kids moving from public to private rather than helping out parents already paying, and I saw the bull**** about focusing on "low income" families.

I'm assuming if I already have kids in private school and make $600k a year, this will do absolutely nothing to help me.

---

If you make 600k this bill, and law, is not for you. You are a very small minority..

---

It should be for everyone who pays property taxes, at minimum. The idea that, if you make more money than most people, you should somehow get less of a say in where your tax dollars go with respect to education is absurd and wrong. We need a full on school choice bill. **** the failing public school system and the people who are desperate to prop it up. Make them compete for tax dollars.

---

Yea.

That's not how this works.


It will always and was always going to disproportionately help lower earning families over high earning families. That's just the way the math goes.

---

That's how it works in Florida and several other states. It can and should be done here.

---

No it doesn't.

There is nowhere in this world that a flat payment proportionately helps higher earners and lower earners. Again that not how math works.

It's ok too. That is really not the goal.

---

The 600k families aren't going to get the flat payment at all.

Therein lies the problem. A welfare program by design.

---

It is no more of a welfare program than public education, and attacking it as such is disingenuous. If you want all education to be private, this is the only way it will ever happen, and opposing it is just assuring it will ALWAYS be a welfare program that is 100% socialized.

Phatbob said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

agsalaska said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

agsalaska said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

agsalaska said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

Howdy, it is me! said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

So it's limited to 100,000 students? WTF. That's useless.

---

It's a billion dollar bill. Whatever is left after administration costs will be used for the participants. So, likely, less than 100,000.

---

It sounds like they're also going to focus on using the funds for kids moving from public to private rather than helping out parents already paying, and I saw the bull**** about focusing on "low income" families.

I'm assuming if I already have kids in private school and make $600k a year, this will do absolutely nothing to help me.

---

If you make 600k this bill, and law, is not for you. You are a very small minority..

---

It should be for everyone who pays property taxes, at minimum. The idea that, if you make more money than most people, you should somehow get less of a say in where your tax dollars go with respect to education is absurd and wrong. We need a full on school choice bill. **** the failing public school system and the people who are desperate to prop it up. Make them compete for tax dollars.

---

Yea.

That's not how this works.


It will always and was always going to disproportionately help lower earning families over high earning families. That's just the way the math goes.

---

That's how it works in Florida and several other states. It can and should be done here.

---

No it doesn't.

There is nowhere in this world that a flat payment proportionately helps higher earners and lower earners. Again that not how math works.

It's ok too. That is really not the goal.

---

The 600k families aren't going to get the flat payment at all.

Therein lies the problem. A welfare program by design.

---

It is no more of a welfare program than public education, and attacking it as such is disingenuous. If you want all education to be private, this is the only way it will ever happen, and opposing it is just assuring it will ALWAYS be a welfare program that is 100% socialized.

---

So will that $600k family get it? How about mine, since I make even more than that? Why do I not get it? I have 2 school age children.

Indiana. It started here where there were limits on income as to who it would benefit, but it has grown just about every legislative session to include most everyone and private schools have not increased their tuition all that much, so yes, it has made it more affordable, and the state is not putting a lot of intrusive regulations onto the schools here.

It also has made the private schools have waiting lists, but guess what? That means that the supply will grow. It's not perfect, but it is a market, and markets never are. Markets work best when they are mature, but they have to get there, vouchers at least provide a base for that market to start with so that you can even get a generation of parents willing to even think about privatizing that industry without having to sacrifice their own kids.

Quote:

---

So will that $600k family get it? How about mine, since I make even more than that? Why do I not get it? I have 2 school age children.

---

Probably not, but you're getting screwed already, so you *****ing about any sort of fix isn't going to change that. There is a pathway to get what you want, and you aren't going to get one right out of the gate. Sorry, but that is life.

Phatbob said:

---

Indiana. It started here where there were limits on income as to who it would benefit, but it has grown just about every legislative session to include most everyone and private schools have not increased their tuition all that much, so yes, it has made it more affordable, and the state is not putting a lot of intrusive regulations onto the schools here.

It also has made the private schools have waiting lists, but guess what? That means that the supply will grow. It's not perfect, but it is a market, and markets never are. Markets work best when they are mature, but they have to get there, vouchers at least provide a base for that market to start with so that you can even get a generation of parents willing to even think about privatizing that industry without having to sacrifice their own kids.

---

Thank you. I want to take a look at their bills to compare. We have a very concerning subsection in ours that I'll be curious to see if is in yours. I'd also like to compare your homeschool regulations as that's another major concern with proposed legislation in Texas.

Tom Fox said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

agsalaska said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

agsalaska said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

agsalaska said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

Howdy, it is me! said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

So it's limited to 100,000 students? WTF. That's useless.

---

It's a billion dollar bill. Whatever is left after administration costs will be used for the participants. So, likely, less than 100,000.

---

It sounds like they're also going to focus on using the funds for kids moving from public to private rather than helping out parents already paying, and I saw the bull**** about focusing on "low income" families.

I'm assuming if I already have kids in private school and make $600k a year, this will do absolutely nothing to help me.

---

If you make 600k this bill, and law, is not for you. You are a very small minority..

---

It should be for everyone who pays property taxes, at minimum. The idea that, if you make more money than most people, you should somehow get less of a say in where your tax dollars go with respect to education is absurd and wrong. We need a full on school choice bill. **** the failing public school system and the people who are desperate to prop it up. Make them compete for tax dollars.

---

Yea.

That's not how this works.


It will always and was always going to disproportionately help lower earning families over high earning families. That's just the way the math goes.

---

That's how it works in Florida and several other states. It can and should be done here.

---

No it doesn't.

There is nowhere in this world that a flat payment proportionately helps higher earners and lower earners. Again that not how math works.

It's ok too. That is really not the goal.

---

The 600k families aren't going to get the flat payment at all.

Therein lies the problem. A welfare program by design.

---

It is no more of a welfare program than public education, and attacking it as such is disingenuous. If you want all education to be private, this is the only way it will ever happen, and opposing it is just assuring it will ALWAYS be a welfare program that is 100% socialized.

---

So will that $600k family get it? How about mine, since I make even more than that? Why do I not get it? I have 2 school age children.

---

I am the last person that supports this (or any) proposed bill, but I do want to be fair - to answer your question, there is a possibility you could benefit. You'd be put in a lottery, with everyone else who applied and was not selected in the first 80%, for 20% of the remaining funds (the lotteries are if more people apply than there are available funds).

ETA: Less than 100,000 students will benefit from this current proposed legislation.

I'm not saying that the current Texas bill doesn't have problems, or even that it doesn't go about things in the right way. I am just tired of the objections about the concept of vouchers. It can be done in a way that limits the effectiveness, and I think that is the actual purpose behind some of the bad inclusions of the bill, to protect public schools. Vouchers are a path to improving education, though, and it is the only one I am aware of to transition from a 100% socialized sector to a private one without flushing a generation of kids in the process.

Phatbob said:

---

Quote:

---

So will that $600k family get it? How about mine, since I make even more than that? Why do I not get it? I have 2 school age children.

---

Probably not, but you're getting screwed already, so you *****ing about any sort of fix isn't going to change that. There is a pathway to get what you want, and you aren't going to get one right out of the gate. Sorry, but that is life.

---

Yeah that is a common refrain. Sorry but you are getting already screwed by our politicians. Well F that. They one way for you to care about my situation is for you to remain screwed too and then vote these people out along with me.

They only program that should ever be in place is where every single family get the exact same credit regardless of number of student. Then everyone has the same taxpayer funded opportunity to make a school choice. And by doing this, the worst possible consequence is that private schools just raise their tuition by whatever that credit amount becomes.

Everything else is a LoL poor welfare program.

Can your kids not attend private school without this handout?

Yes, and they would. But they also could attend the public school with the same handout, because that is what all of it is. Good luck getting your version passed as the first bill, because you will never see it. Never. Not ever. Never ever. You have to get people who have been conditioned to socialized education over their objections to private education as a concept first, as well as establishing the ability for private schools to handle the volume.

Phatbob said:

---

Yes, and they would. But they also could attend the public school with the same handout, because that is what all of it is. Good luck getting your version passed as the first bill, because you will never see it. Never. Not ever. Never ever. You have to get people who have been conditioned to socialized education over their objections to private education as a concept first, as well as establishing the ability for private schools to handle the volume.

---

This is just another program where politicians get to confiscate money from one group and offer that to another group to pay for their families individually lifestyle.

I thought his was America. Sure we pay for collective benefits like the military, emergency services and infrastructure.

At least with public school it is hard to quantify the benefit directly per family and you have to make sacrifices to access the benefit. This is just a straight up handout. It is turning food stamps into a debit card.

We should be voting our way away from programs like this not creating new ones because the government cannot effectively use our tax dollars. Let the taxpayer keep them. Don't give them to another voter with their hand out.

I am extremely close to saying **** republicans and just not supporting them. They are just socialist light as opposed to full on communism and I cannot support that any longer.

The disheartening thing, is watching my supposed fellow conservatives sellout for scraps as long as it is their scraps.

In private markets there will be failures. That is a fact of all markets. You can't have the danger of failure without there ever being failure. The failure rate of small markets is much higher than mature markets, and you are NOT going to get parents to take that risk with their own kids on a large scale. It's going to have to be a transition, so the market can mature and reach the benefits of being private with as little of the downsides as possible. It will get to a better version, but there has to be a first step.

republicans like Lacey Hull voted in a democrat as House Speaker. Vouchers will not happen.

Here's the problem with your take. Socialized programs industries CANNOT just be dropped. They have destroyed the CAPACITY to handle it privately at the scale they need to be handled, and that capacity does not happen overnight. If the trucking industry was 100% run by the government and then suddenly was turned 100% private... it would work better eventually, but not without starving millions of people while the private markets figured it out.

You are right in principle, but your insistence on wanting the most extreme shift as the first pass is not a viable option.

Edited to correct myself

IndividualFreedom said:

---

republicans like Lacey Hull voted in a democrat as House Speaker. Vouchers will not happen.

---

Good. Vote to cut property taxes and stop creating new govt welfare programs.

Quote:

---

I am just tired of the objections about the concept of vouchers.

---

So what really is the root that would make vouchers a need?

Do people currently have the ability to enroll their child in any public school? If not, why is that not being addressed?
Is it that private schools that are not "affordable?"
Is it that people actually want property tax reform, which would allow more spending power for education choices (or anything else)?

10andBOUNCE said:

---

Quote:

---

I am just tired of the objections about the concept of vouchers.

---

So what really is the root that would make vouchers a need?

Do people currently have the ability to enroll their child in any public school? If not, why is that not being addressed?
Is it that private schools that are not "affordable?"
Is it that people actually want property tax reform, which would allow more spending power for education choices (or anything else)?

---

Those are not really the right questions. Public schools as a concept are the wrong starting point. The very nature of them brings problems and incentives that lead to eventual failure, or at best stagnation. But, unfortunately, that is where we are, and that limits our choices severely. If you want real education reform, you have to have market forces to act on incentives. Show me a better way to do that to get from A to B than vouchers and I would support that.

Phatbob said:

---

10andBOUNCE said:

---

Quote:

---

I am just tired of the objections about the concept of vouchers.

---

So what really is the root that would make vouchers a need?

Do people currently have the ability to enroll their child in any public school? If not, why is that not being addressed?
Is it that private schools that are not "affordable?"
Is it that people actually want property tax reform, which would allow more spending power for education choices (or anything else)?

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Those are not really the right questions. Public schools as a concept are the wrong starting point. The very nature of them brings problems and incentives that lead to eventual failure, or at best stagnation. But, unfortunately, that is where we are, and that limits our choices severely. If you want real education reform, you have to have market forces to act on incentives. Show me a better way to do that to get from A to B than vouchers and I would support that.

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Not taking the money in the first place. Open up the option for people to choose public schools. Not writing a bill that gives the government blanket freedom to impose whatever regulations and limitations they deem necessary. Just some ideas.

I don't know how Indiana funds their public schools but the money for this Texas proposal isn't coming from the same bucket as our public schools. To me, that's people paying for some kids twice.

Howdy, it is me! said:

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Phatbob said:

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10andBOUNCE said:

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I am just tired of the objections about the concept of vouchers.

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So what really is the root that would make vouchers a need?

Do people currently have the ability to enroll their child in any public school? If not, why is that not being addressed?
Is it that private schools that are not "affordable?"
Is it that people actually want property tax reform, which would allow more spending power for education choices (or anything else)?

---

Those are not really the right questions. Public schools as a concept are the wrong starting point. The very nature of them brings problems and incentives that lead to eventual failure, or at best stagnation. But, unfortunately, that is where we are, and that limits our choices severely. If you want real education reform, you have to have market forces to act on incentives. Show me a better way to do that to get from A to B than vouchers and I would support that.

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Not taking the money in the first place. Open up the option for people to choose public schools. Not writing a bill that gives the government blanket freedom to impose whatever regulations and limitations they deem necessary. Just some ideas.

I don't know how Indiana funds their public schools but the money for this Texas proposal isn't coming from the same bucket as our public schools. To me, that's people paying for some kids twice.

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Again, I am not saying the current bill is a good one. There are some perfectly reasonable concerns about this bill But if you can get those particular parts fixed, then the concept on its own will work. Most of the arguments here against it have nothing to do with the specifics of the bill but to either any taxes going to education (valid, but tangential) or to the effects ANY vouchers would have on the schools themselves, which can be easily addressed by looking at where it has already been done.

So if many of us were products of public schools and we were educated well enough to do well and often very well at colleges and universities, and at our jobs and families , and have gone on to become good citizens and patriots, and also believers , what then has happened to our public schools?

I am a firm believer that more government involvement ruined the schools. Be careful what you wish for.

Phatbob said:

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Howdy, it is me! said:

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Phatbob said:

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10andBOUNCE said:

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Quote:

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I am just tired of the objections about the concept of vouchers.

---

So what really is the root that would make vouchers a need?

Do people currently have the ability to enroll their child in any public school? If not, why is that not being addressed?
Is it that private schools that are not "affordable?"
Is it that people actually want property tax reform, which would allow more spending power for education choices (or anything else)?

---

Those are not really the right questions. Public schools as a concept are the wrong starting point. The very nature of them brings problems and incentives that lead to eventual failure, or at best stagnation. But, unfortunately, that is where we are, and that limits our choices severely. If you want real education reform, you have to have market forces to act on incentives. Show me a better way to do that to get from A to B than vouchers and I would support that.

---

Not taking the money in the first place. Open up the option for people to choose public schools. Not writing a bill that gives the government blanket freedom to impose whatever regulations and limitations they deem necessary. Just some ideas.

I don't know how Indiana funds their public schools but the money for this Texas proposal isn't coming from the same bucket as our public schools. To me, that's people paying for some kids twice.

---

Again, I am not saying the current bill is a good one. There are some perfectly reasonable concerns about this bill But if you can get those particular parts fixed, then the concept on its own will work. Most of the arguments here against it have nothing to do with the specifics of the bill but to either any taxes going to education (valid, but tangential) or to the effects ANY vouchers would have on the schools themselves, which can be easily addressed by looking at where it has already been done.

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I posted a long comment about the most concerning specific of this bill. People need to be emailing and calling their reps to have that section omitted immediately.

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IndividualFreedom said:
republicans like Lacey Hull voted in a democrat as House Speaker. Vouchers will not happen.

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Good. Vote to cut property taxes and stop creating new govt welfare programs.

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Full disclosure, my daughter goes to a Christian School. I already pay for school and plan on it through High School. Would it be nice to have some money come back to me now?....... Sure, but my support for vouchers is driven by taking power away from govt. and giving it to the individual.

Taking education away from the enemy of this nation would be HUGE! Making the our children small in the sense of control is HUGE. i.e. thousands of corrals vs. one for our cattle

The ISD should be dismantled and using Vouchers is a great fist step. I hope 30 years from now that if your kid goes to a public school that it is their last chance before they go to jail/prison.

Owlagdad said:

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So if many of us were products of public schools and we were educated well enough to do well and often very well at colleges and universities, and at our jobs and families , and have gone on to become good citizens and patriots, and also believers , what then has happened to our public schools?

I am a firm believer that more government involvement ruined the schools. Be careful what you wish for.

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Well, the Dept. of Education. Teachers with an agenda. Entitlement. Poor parenting. "Equity." Everyone gets a ribbon.

I remember having "accelerated" classes growing up, even in elementary school. The smartest kids were in a class together. The average kids were in classes together. The slower kids were in a class together. That allowed teachers to teach to their students at the pace the class could handle. It meant the "dumbest" kid in a class wasn't so far behind the "smartest" kid, so everyone learned better.

But that isn't fair now. Everyone has to be in classes together, which doesn't make the slowest kid smarter, it just means the smarter kids get held back from learning as much as they could otherwise. That is failing students. Yes, there are AP classes and there are still GT/TAG classes, but kids could be better taught to every day.

Public schools, as all socialized systems, are mostly okay at doing what they are supposed to do. As all socialized institutions behave, the larger and older they get, the "okay"-er and "okay"-er they get. All they do is remain "okay" in the same state of being that they were created. Very limited innovation, very limited reaction to needs. At some point they all become liabilities that need to be propped up until they have to be overhauled completely. They are not unlike overarching software systems. Even if they work well when they are first implemented, they don't work well forever and eventually they hold you back.

Non-socialized systems don't have that problem.