Tom Fox said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

Howdy, it is me! said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

Howdy, it is me! said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

So it's limited to 100,000 students? WTF. That's useless.

---

It's a billion dollar bill. Whatever is left after administration costs will be used for the participants. So, likely, less than 100,000.

---

It sounds like they're also going to focus on using the funds for kids moving from public to private rather than helping out parents already paying, and I saw the bull**** about focusing on "low income" families.

I'm assuming if I already have kids in private school and make $600k a year, this will do absolutely nothing to help me.

---

Unless you're one of the lucky lottery winners in the 20%.

---

What a ****ing joke.

"We're going to give you back some of your money we stole through our criminal property tax system so you can choose where your kids go to school. But only for 1.8% of you, and only if you don't make too much money, and only if you win a lottery." Complete ****ing joke.

---

As I have said for the past couple of years, this is nothing more than a new entitlement.

Now we get the privilege of competing against our own tax dollars.

---

It's not a new entitlement. Your taxes are not going up because of school choice. If you consider funding education as an entitlement, then at worst this is simply an alternative that has zero delta from your perspective.

Logos Stick said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

Howdy, it is me! said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

Howdy, it is me! said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

So it's limited to 100,000 students? WTF. That's useless.

---

It's a billion dollar bill. Whatever is left after administration costs will be used for the participants. So, likely, less than 100,000.

---

It sounds like they're also going to focus on using the funds for kids moving from public to private rather than helping out parents already paying, and I saw the bull**** about focusing on "low income" families.

I'm assuming if I already have kids in private school and make $600k a year, this will do absolutely nothing to help me.

---

Unless you're one of the lucky lottery winners in the 20%.

---

What a ****ing joke.

"We're going to give you back some of your money we stole through our criminal property tax system so you can choose where your kids go to school. But only for 1.8% of you, and only if you don't make too much money, and only if you win a lottery." Complete ****ing joke.

---

As I have said for the past couple of years, this is nothing more than a new entitlement.

Now we get the privilege of competing against our own tax dollars.

---

It's not a new entitlement. Your taxes are not going up because of school choice. If you consider funding education as an entitlement, then at worst this is simply an alternative that has zero delta from your perspective.

---

It is an entitlement for every family getting more out than they paid in property taxes. Both before and after the new voucher system.

Except now that money will skew the private school market with my tax dollars.

If you want private school, pay for it with your private money.

Combine that with this is targeted to lower incomes and public school is not. Boom! Entitlements.

Tom Fox said:

---

DD88 said:

---

Close to 30 states now have some form of school choice.

Show us where anyone is forced to give up their "freedoms".

---

I want to stop being forced to give up my freedom from paying for other people's individual family expenses.

---

What's the difference between funding childrens' education at a public school, and at a private school if the cost is the same? Are you against paying for either?

the most cool guy said:

---

Howdy, it is me! said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

Howdy, it is me! said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

So it's limited to 100,000 students? WTF. That's useless.

---

It's a billion dollar bill. Whatever is left after administration costs will be used for the participants. So, likely, less than 100,000.

---

It sounds like they're also going to focus on using the funds for kids moving from public to private rather than helping out parents already paying, and I saw the bull**** about focusing on "low income" families.

I'm assuming if I already have kids in private school and make $600k a year, this will do absolutely nothing to help me.

---

Unless you're one of the lucky lottery winners in the 20%.

---

What a ****ing joke.

"We're going to give you back some of your money we stole through our criminal property tax system so you can choose where your kids go to school. But only for 1.8% of you, and only if you don't make too much money, and only if you win a lottery." Complete ****ing joke.

---

Yup - the property tax joke in this state is never going to get fixed.

Bob Lee said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

DD88 said:

---

Close to 30 states now have some form of school choice.

Show us where anyone is forced to give up their "freedoms".

---

I want to stop being forced to give up my freedom from paying for other people's individual family expenses.

---

What's the difference between funding childrens' education at a public school, and at a private school if the cost is the same? Are you against paying for either?

---

Yes I am against paying for either.

But the difference is the cost will not be the same. No matter what you say the amounts paid out will grow just like very other entitlement.

And finally, it will skew the private school market in which I participate. So my own tax dollars will now be competing against my private school money.

Tom Fox said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

Howdy, it is me! said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

Howdy, it is me! said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

So it's limited to 100,000 students? WTF. That's useless.

---

It's a billion dollar bill. Whatever is left after administration costs will be used for the participants. So, likely, less than 100,000.

---

It sounds like they're also going to focus on using the funds for kids moving from public to private rather than helping out parents already paying, and I saw the bull**** about focusing on "low income" families.

I'm assuming if I already have kids in private school and make $600k a year, this will do absolutely nothing to help me.

---

Unless you're one of the lucky lottery winners in the 20%.

---

What a ****ing joke.

"We're going to give you back some of your money we stole through our criminal property tax system so you can choose where your kids go to school. But only for 1.8% of you, and only if you don't make too much money, and only if you win a lottery." Complete ****ing joke.

---

As I have said for the past couple of years, this is nothing more than a new entitlement.

Now we get the privilege of competing against our own tax dollars.

---

It's not a new entitlement. Your taxes are not going up because of school choice. If you consider funding education as an entitlement, then at worst this is simply an alternative that has zero delta from your perspective.

---

It is an entitlement for every family getting more out than they paid in property taxes. Both before and after the new voucher system.

Except now that money will skew the private school market with my tax dollars.

If you want private school, pay for it with your private money.

Combine that with this is targeted to lower incomes and public school is not. Boom! Entitlements.

---

Poor kids parents pay much less for the same education as rich kids parents right now.

If you want to eliminate school funding, fine. But this is no more of an "entitlement" than public education right now. It's just a replacement at best.

Again, it's not a "new entitlement".

Tom Fox said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

Howdy, it is me! said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

Howdy, it is me! said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

So it's limited to 100,000 students? WTF. That's useless.

---

It's a billion dollar bill. Whatever is left after administration costs will be used for the participants. So, likely, less than 100,000.

---

It sounds like they're also going to focus on using the funds for kids moving from public to private rather than helping out parents already paying, and I saw the bull**** about focusing on "low income" families.

I'm assuming if I already have kids in private school and make $600k a year, this will do absolutely nothing to help me.

---

Unless you're one of the lucky lottery winners in the 20%.

---

What a ****ing joke.

"We're going to give you back some of your money we stole through our criminal property tax system so you can choose where your kids go to school. But only for 1.8% of you, and only if you don't make too much money, and only if you win a lottery." Complete ****ing joke.

---

As I have said for the past couple of years, this is nothing more than a new entitlement.

Now we get the privilege of competing against our own tax dollars.

---

It's not a new entitlement. Your taxes are not going up because of school choice. If you consider funding education as an entitlement, then at worst this is simply an alternative that has zero delta from your perspective.

---

It is an entitlement for every family getting more out than they paid in property taxes. Both before and after the new voucher system.

Except now that money will skew the private school market with my tax dollars.

If you want private school, pay for it with your private money.

Combine that with this is targeted to lower incomes and public school is not. Boom! Entitlements.

---

Then public school is also an entitlement for every family getting more than they pay over the course of their lives. Right? But what's the difference? I could say, if you want school period, pay for it with your private money.

Bob Lee said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

Howdy, it is me! said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

Howdy, it is me! said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

So it's limited to 100,000 students? WTF. That's useless.

---

It's a billion dollar bill. Whatever is left after administration costs will be used for the participants. So, likely, less than 100,000.

---

It sounds like they're also going to focus on using the funds for kids moving from public to private rather than helping out parents already paying, and I saw the bull**** about focusing on "low income" families.

I'm assuming if I already have kids in private school and make $600k a year, this will do absolutely nothing to help me.

---

Unless you're one of the lucky lottery winners in the 20%.

---

What a ****ing joke.

"We're going to give you back some of your money we stole through our criminal property tax system so you can choose where your kids go to school. But only for 1.8% of you, and only if you don't make too much money, and only if you win a lottery." Complete ****ing joke.

---

As I have said for the past couple of years, this is nothing more than a new entitlement.

Now we get the privilege of competing against our own tax dollars.

---

It's not a new entitlement. Your taxes are not going up because of school choice. If you consider funding education as an entitlement, then at worst this is simply an alternative that has zero delta from your perspective.

---

It is an entitlement for every family getting more out than they paid in property taxes. Both before and after the new voucher system.

Except now that money will skew the private school market with my tax dollars.

If you want private school, pay for it with your private money.

Combine that with this is targeted to lower incomes and public school is not. Boom! Entitlements.

---

Then public school is also an entitlement for every family getting more than they pay over the course of their lives. Right? But what's the difference? I could say, if you want school period, pay for it with your private money.

---

We absolutely should do that. But this just compounds the mistake by letting the cancer metastasize.

PAY.FOR.YOUR.OWN.SHlT

Tom Fox said:

---

Bob Lee said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

Howdy, it is me! said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

Howdy, it is me! said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

So it's limited to 100,000 students? WTF. That's useless.

---

It's a billion dollar bill. Whatever is left after administration costs will be used for the participants. So, likely, less than 100,000.

---

It sounds like they're also going to focus on using the funds for kids moving from public to private rather than helping out parents already paying, and I saw the bull**** about focusing on "low income" families.

I'm assuming if I already have kids in private school and make $600k a year, this will do absolutely nothing to help me.

---

Unless you're one of the lucky lottery winners in the 20%.

---

What a ****ing joke.

"We're going to give you back some of your money we stole through our criminal property tax system so you can choose where your kids go to school. But only for 1.8% of you, and only if you don't make too much money, and only if you win a lottery." Complete ****ing joke.

---

As I have said for the past couple of years, this is nothing more than a new entitlement.

Now we get the privilege of competing against our own tax dollars.

---

It's not a new entitlement. Your taxes are not going up because of school choice. If you consider funding education as an entitlement, then at worst this is simply an alternative that has zero delta from your perspective.

---

It is an entitlement for every family getting more out than they paid in property taxes. Both before and after the new voucher system.

Except now that money will skew the private school market with my tax dollars.

If you want private school, pay for it with your private money.

Combine that with this is targeted to lower incomes and public school is not. Boom! Entitlements.

---

Then public school is also an entitlement for every family getting more than they pay over the course of their lives. Right? But what's the difference? I could say, if you want school period, pay for it with your private money.

---

We absolutely should do that. But this just compounds the mistake by letting the cancer metastasize.

PAY.FOR.YOUR.OWN.SHlT

---

In light of the fact that privatizing grade school is a pipe dream. Is there a good application of vouchers, or you think the best kind of unjust system for educating children is the current version?

Another reason this bill stinks is it prioritizes "low income" families with children in public school over "low income" families with children in private school. Meaning those families with the same income who forgo some nice things to prioritize their children's education are getting completely shafted. Makes no sense.

Bob Lee said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

Bob Lee said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

Howdy, it is me! said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

Howdy, it is me! said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

So it's limited to 100,000 students? WTF. That's useless.

---

It's a billion dollar bill. Whatever is left after administration costs will be used for the participants. So, likely, less than 100,000.

---

It sounds like they're also going to focus on using the funds for kids moving from public to private rather than helping out parents already paying, and I saw the bull**** about focusing on "low income" families.

I'm assuming if I already have kids in private school and make $600k a year, this will do absolutely nothing to help me.

---

Unless you're one of the lucky lottery winners in the 20%.

---

What a ****ing joke.

"We're going to give you back some of your money we stole through our criminal property tax system so you can choose where your kids go to school. But only for 1.8% of you, and only if you don't make too much money, and only if you win a lottery." Complete ****ing joke.

---

As I have said for the past couple of years, this is nothing more than a new entitlement.

Now we get the privilege of competing against our own tax dollars.

---

It's not a new entitlement. Your taxes are not going up because of school choice. If you consider funding education as an entitlement, then at worst this is simply an alternative that has zero delta from your perspective.

---

It is an entitlement for every family getting more out than they paid in property taxes. Both before and after the new voucher system.

Except now that money will skew the private school market with my tax dollars.

If you want private school, pay for it with your private money.

Combine that with this is targeted to lower incomes and public school is not. Boom! Entitlements.

---

Then public school is also an entitlement for every family getting more than they pay over the course of their lives. Right? But what's the difference? I could say, if you want school period, pay for it with your private money.

---

We absolutely should do that. But this just compounds the mistake by letting the cancer metastasize.

PAY.FOR.YOUR.OWN.SHlT

---

In light of the fact that privatizing grade school is a pipe dream. Is there a good application of vouchers, or you think the best kind of unjust system for educating children is the current version?

---

The best system is the same if you cannot afford food or healthcare.

You can't afford food, you get what is served to you. This should be basics like meat, bread, and milk. But what do we have with big govt? Debit cards that can but wagyu beef, snacks, and soda.

You cannot afford your own healthcare? You should be forced to go to a state hospital and get what you get. What do we have with big govt? Medicare and Medicaid where the private marketplace is distorted.

The school voucher system is the same govt response as those above.

Most conservatives don't hate entitlements. In fact they love them, but just their individual ones that benefit them personally.

End it! All of it.

Bob Lee said:

---

Another reason this bill stinks is it prioritizes "low income" families with children in public school over "low income" families with children in private school. Meaning those families with the same income who forgo some nice things to prioritize their children's education are getting completely shafted. Makes no sense.

---

You could have ended your post at low income.

Tom Fox said:

---

Bob Lee said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

Bob Lee said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

Howdy, it is me! said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

Howdy, it is me! said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

So it's limited to 100,000 students? WTF. That's useless.

---

It's a billion dollar bill. Whatever is left after administration costs will be used for the participants. So, likely, less than 100,000.

---

It sounds like they're also going to focus on using the funds for kids moving from public to private rather than helping out parents already paying, and I saw the bull**** about focusing on "low income" families.

I'm assuming if I already have kids in private school and make $600k a year, this will do absolutely nothing to help me.

---

Unless you're one of the lucky lottery winners in the 20%.

---

What a ****ing joke.

"We're going to give you back some of your money we stole through our criminal property tax system so you can choose where your kids go to school. But only for 1.8% of you, and only if you don't make too much money, and only if you win a lottery." Complete ****ing joke.

---

As I have said for the past couple of years, this is nothing more than a new entitlement.

Now we get the privilege of competing against our own tax dollars.

---

It's not a new entitlement. Your taxes are not going up because of school choice. If you consider funding education as an entitlement, then at worst this is simply an alternative that has zero delta from your perspective.

---

It is an entitlement for every family getting more out than they paid in property taxes. Both before and after the new voucher system.

Except now that money will skew the private school market with my tax dollars.

If you want private school, pay for it with your private money.

Combine that with this is targeted to lower incomes and public school is not. Boom! Entitlements.

---

Then public school is also an entitlement for every family getting more than they pay over the course of their lives. Right? But what's the difference? I could say, if you want school period, pay for it with your private money.

---

We absolutely should do that. But this just compounds the mistake by letting the cancer metastasize.

PAY.FOR.YOUR.OWN.SHlT

---

In light of the fact that privatizing grade school is a pipe dream. Is there a good application of vouchers, or you think the best kind of unjust system for educating children is the current version?

---

The best system is the same if you cannot afford food or healthcare.

You can't afford food, you get what is served to you. This should be basics like meat, bread, and milk. But what do we have with big govt? Debit cards that can but wagyu beef, snacks, and soda.

You cannot afford your own healthcare? You should be forced to go to a state hospital and get what you get. What do we have with big govt? Medicare and Medicaid where the private marketplace is distorted.

The school voucher system is the same govt response as those above.

Most conservatives don't hate entitlements. In fact they love them, but just their individual ones that benefit them personally.

End it! All of it.

---

But you have to deal with things as they actually are. Not the way we'd like them to be. There are families who would be able to afford a private education for their children if you can believe it, but for the fact they have to pay for their children to attend the public schools.

In my opinion the public schools are approaching the point, if we're not there already, they do more harm than good to our children and society. But you're required to send your children there. You can't even opt out. I think true school choice is a just resolution or at least as just as we can reasonably hope for.

Tom Fox said:

---

Bob Lee said:

---

Another reason this bill stinks is it prioritizes "low income" families with children in public school over "low income" families with children in private school. Meaning those families with the same income who forgo some nice things to prioritize their children's education are getting completely shafted. Makes no sense.

---

You could have ended your post at low income.

---

Yes, but even worse is the assumption is that all public school families are less fortunate or have less access to a private school education. Maybe that's sometimes or even true of most, but certainly not all the time.

Bob Lee said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

Bob Lee said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

Bob Lee said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

Howdy, it is me! said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

Howdy, it is me! said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

So it's limited to 100,000 students? WTF. That's useless.

---

It's a billion dollar bill. Whatever is left after administration costs will be used for the participants. So, likely, less than 100,000.

---

It sounds like they're also going to focus on using the funds for kids moving from public to private rather than helping out parents already paying, and I saw the bull**** about focusing on "low income" families.

I'm assuming if I already have kids in private school and make $600k a year, this will do absolutely nothing to help me.

---

Unless you're one of the lucky lottery winners in the 20%.

---

What a ****ing joke.

"We're going to give you back some of your money we stole through our criminal property tax system so you can choose where your kids go to school. But only for 1.8% of you, and only if you don't make too much money, and only if you win a lottery." Complete ****ing joke.

---

As I have said for the past couple of years, this is nothing more than a new entitlement.

Now we get the privilege of competing against our own tax dollars.

---

It's not a new entitlement. Your taxes are not going up because of school choice. If you consider funding education as an entitlement, then at worst this is simply an alternative that has zero delta from your perspective.

---

It is an entitlement for every family getting more out than they paid in property taxes. Both before and after the new voucher system.

Except now that money will skew the private school market with my tax dollars.

If you want private school, pay for it with your private money.

Combine that with this is targeted to lower incomes and public school is not. Boom! Entitlements.

---

Then public school is also an entitlement for every family getting more than they pay over the course of their lives. Right? But what's the difference? I could say, if you want school period, pay for it with your private money.

---

We absolutely should do that. But this just compounds the mistake by letting the cancer metastasize.

PAY.FOR.YOUR.OWN.SHlT

---

In light of the fact that privatizing grade school is a pipe dream. Is there a good application of vouchers, or you think the best kind of unjust system for educating children is the current version?

---

The best system is the same if you cannot afford food or healthcare.

You can't afford food, you get what is served to you. This should be basics like meat, bread, and milk. But what do we have with big govt? Debit cards that can but wagyu beef, snacks, and soda.

You cannot afford your own healthcare? You should be forced to go to a state hospital and get what you get. What do we have with big govt? Medicare and Medicaid where the private marketplace is distorted.

The school voucher system is the same govt response as those above.

Most conservatives don't hate entitlements. In fact they love them, but just their individual ones that benefit them personally.

End it! All of it.

---

But you have to deal with things as they actually are. Not the way we'd like them to be. There are families who would be able to afford a private education for their children if you can believe it, but for the fact they have to pay for their children to attend the public schools.

In my opinion the public schools are approaching the point, if we're not there already, they do more harm than good to our children and society. But you're required to send your children there. You can't even opt out. I think true school choice is a just resolution or at least as just as we can reasonably hope for.

---

Not if it is means tested it is not. If every single taxpayer with kids got the exact same payout regardless of income level or number of kids it would be the best version of this bill.

It is almost the opposite of that.

And we should be striving for ideal solution rather than settling for govt intrusion.

I'm tired of paying for other people.

Bob Lee said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

Bob Lee said:

---

Another reason this bill stinks is it prioritizes "low income" families with children in public school over "low income" families with children in private school. Meaning those families with the same income who forgo some nice things to prioritize their children's education are getting completely shafted. Makes no sense.

---

You could have ended your post at low income.

---

Yes, but even worse is the assumption is that all public school families are less fortunate or have less access to a private school education. Maybe that's sometimes or even true of most, but certainly not all the time.

---

No people make bad decision on how to prioritize their spending. If you have the dough and would rather go on vacay 5 times a year over funding your kids education, that is on you.

Tom Fox said:

---

Bob Lee said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

Bob Lee said:

---

Another reason this bill stinks is it prioritizes "low income" families with children in public school over "low income" families with children in private school. Meaning those families with the same income who forgo some nice things to prioritize their children's education are getting completely shafted. Makes no sense.

---

You could have ended your post at low income.

---

Yes, but even worse is the assumption is that all public school families are less fortunate or have less access to a private school education. Maybe that's sometimes or even true of most, but certainly not all the time.

---

No people make bad decision on how to prioritize their spending. If you have the dough and would rather go on vacay 5 times a year over funding your kids education, that is on you.

---

That's my point. This bill puts that family in the 80% lottery. While the family in the same neighborhood that doesn't go on any vacations, has the same household income, still pays for the public schools, but their children are in private school, they're in the 20% lottery.

Bob Lee said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

Bob Lee said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

Bob Lee said:

---

Another reason this bill stinks is it prioritizes "low income" families with children in public school over "low income" families with children in private school. Meaning those families with the same income who forgo some nice things to prioritize their children's education are getting completely shafted. Makes no sense.

---

You could have ended your post at low income.

---

Yes, but even worse is the assumption is that all public school families are less fortunate or have less access to a private school education. Maybe that's sometimes or even true of most, but certainly not all the time.

---

No people make bad decision on how to prioritize their spending. If you have the dough and would rather go on vacay 5 times a year over funding your kids education, that is on you.

---

That's my point. This bill puts that family in the 80% lottery. While the family in the same neighborhood that doesn't go on any vacations, has the same household income, still pays for the public schools, but their children are in private school, they're in the 20% lottery.

---

It's a bad bill. There shouldn't be a lottery at all. Pay for kids on your own or attend the crappy public schools.

Just to make sure you understand. I was a latchkey kid with a single mom and me and my two brothers attended public school. No one was clamoring to get us into Allen Academy.

Tom Fox said:

---

Bob Lee said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

Bob Lee said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

Bob Lee said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

Howdy, it is me! said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

Howdy, it is me! said:

---

the most cool guy said:

---

So it's limited to 100,000 students? WTF. That's useless.

---

It's a billion dollar bill. Whatever is left after administration costs will be used for the participants. So, likely, less than 100,000.

---

It sounds like they're also going to focus on using the funds for kids moving from public to private rather than helping out parents already paying, and I saw the bull**** about focusing on "low income" families.

I'm assuming if I already have kids in private school and make $600k a year, this will do absolutely nothing to help me.

---

Unless you're one of the lucky lottery winners in the 20%.

---

What a ****ing joke.

"We're going to give you back some of your money we stole through our criminal property tax system so you can choose where your kids go to school. But only for 1.8% of you, and only if you don't make too much money, and only if you win a lottery." Complete ****ing joke.

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As I have said for the past couple of years, this is nothing more than a new entitlement.

Now we get the privilege of competing against our own tax dollars.

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It's not a new entitlement. Your taxes are not going up because of school choice. If you consider funding education as an entitlement, then at worst this is simply an alternative that has zero delta from your perspective.

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It is an entitlement for every family getting more out than they paid in property taxes. Both before and after the new voucher system.

Except now that money will skew the private school market with my tax dollars.

If you want private school, pay for it with your private money.

Combine that with this is targeted to lower incomes and public school is not. Boom! Entitlements.

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Then public school is also an entitlement for every family getting more than they pay over the course of their lives. Right? But what's the difference? I could say, if you want school period, pay for it with your private money.

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We absolutely should do that. But this just compounds the mistake by letting the cancer metastasize.

PAY.FOR.YOUR.OWN.SHlT

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In light of the fact that privatizing grade school is a pipe dream. Is there a good application of vouchers, or you think the best kind of unjust system for educating children is the current version?

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The best system is the same if you cannot afford food or healthcare.

You can't afford food, you get what is served to you. This should be basics like meat, bread, and milk. But what do we have with big govt? Debit cards that can but wagyu beef, snacks, and soda.

You cannot afford your own healthcare? You should be forced to go to a state hospital and get what you get. What do we have with big govt? Medicare and Medicaid where the private marketplace is distorted.

The school voucher system is the same govt response as those above.

Most conservatives don't hate entitlements. In fact they love them, but just their individual ones that benefit them personally.

End it! All of it.

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But you have to deal with things as they actually are. Not the way we'd like them to be. There are families who would be able to afford a private education for their children if you can believe it, but for the fact they have to pay for their children to attend the public schools.

In my opinion the public schools are approaching the point, if we're not there already, they do more harm than good to our children and society. But you're required to send your children there. You can't even opt out. I think true school choice is a just resolution or at least as just as we can reasonably hope for.

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Not if it is means tested it is not. If every single taxpayer with kids got the exact same payout regardless of income level or number of kids it would be the best version of this bill.

It is almost the opposite of that.

And we should be striving for ideal solution rather than settling for govt intrusion.

I'm tired of paying for other people.

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I agree. This bill stinks. I just don't think it means vouchers as a concept is a bad idea.

This bill sucks!

But if it's the best we can do in Texas for now (because of all the lying rural republican legislators that defy what their constituents want) to get the camels nose and the tent, then I'll take it!


This first step is better than no steps at all

Im Gipper said:

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This bill sucks!

But if it's the best we can do in Texas for now (because of all the lying rural republican legislators that defy what their constituents want) to get the camels nose and the tent, then I'll take it!


This first step is better than no steps at all

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I'm sure you or your ancestors said and voted the same way when SS, Medicare, Medicaid, tanf, section 8, and Obamacare were proposed.

And you are just as wrong as they were then.

Quote:

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I'm sure you or your ancestors said and voted the same way when SS, Medicare, Medicaid, tanf, section 8, and Obamacare were proposed.

And you are just as wrong as they were then.

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Im certain you are WRONG! Against all those things.


Your analogy is terrible by the way. All of those things are putting more control for government.


School choice is taking control away from the government. This first step does not do much in that direction, but like I said, it's a first step.

Im Gipper said:

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Quote:

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I'm sure you or your ancestors said and voted the same way when SS, Medicare, Medicaid, tanf, section 8, and Obamacare were proposed.

And you are just as wrong as they were then.

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Im certain you are WRONG! Against all those things.


Your analogy is terrible by the way. All of those things are putting more control for government.


School choice is taking control away from the government. This first step does not do much in that direction, but like I said, it's a first step.

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You're a fool if you do it think there will be strings attached to tax money. There are in this version already and it is the first iteration.

Are you young? How have you not seen this movie before?

Will end up just driving up the cost of private school too. Same way guaranteed financial aid for college has done for pretty much all the universities in this country.

So let's do nothing. That's your plan? It's worked great!

Im old. Are you under 40? Then I'm old enough to be your dad! Lol

It's not an age thing. It's knowing that the RINOs won't give us a great bill. So let's get all we can this go around, circle back in 2026

Im Gipper said:

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So let's do nothing. That's your plan? It's worked great!

Im old. Are you under 40? Then I'm old enough to be your dad! Lol

It's not an age thing. It's knowing that the RINOs won't give us a great bill. So let's get all we can this go around, circle back in 2026

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I'm 50. That's why I know that you do not let govt expand its reach. Ever.

Alta said:

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Will end up just driving up the cost of private school too. Same way guaranteed financial aid for college has done for pretty much all the universities in this country.

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This. It's amazing that people can't see this. If you give money to everyone, you will just see private schools raise their tuition by $10k, so that they can build better facilities, offer more curriculum and extracurricular activities, and pay their teachers more. In the end, the kids stuck in rotten public schools right now will still be stuck in rotten public schools. Claiming that it's about choice for kids in failing public schools is as big is a lie as saying if you like your health plan, you can keep it.

the most cool guy said:

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Howdy, it is me! said:

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the most cool guy said:

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Howdy, it is me! said:

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the most cool guy said:

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So it's limited to 100,000 students? WTF. That's useless.

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It's a billion dollar bill. Whatever is left after administration costs will be used for the participants. So, likely, less than 100,000.

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It sounds like they're also going to focus on using the funds for kids moving from public to private rather than helping out parents already paying, and I saw the bull**** about focusing on "low income" families.

I'm assuming if I already have kids in private school and make $600k a year, this will do absolutely nothing to help me.

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Unless you're one of the lucky lottery winners in the 20%.

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What a ****ing joke.

"We're going to give you back some of your money we stole through our criminal property tax system so you can choose where your kids go to school. But only for 1.8% of you, and only if you don't make too much money, and only if you win a lottery." Complete ****ing joke.

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The Dems were going to get people like you. They control the house and the price to give Burrows the speakership is to do things like this. There will be more water down conservative priorities presented (or killed in committee). That was the deal for Burrows.

Im Gipper said:

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This bill sucks!

But if it's the best we can do in Texas for now (because of all the lying rural republican legislators that defy what their constituents want) to get the camels nose and the tent, then I'll take it!


This first step is better than no steps at all

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Not if this current bull is the first step. This bill is atrocious.

ETA: I almost fixed my typo but decided it works.

Im Gipper said:

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Quote:

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I'm sure you or your ancestors said and voted the same way when SS, Medicare, Medicaid, tanf, section 8, and Obamacare were proposed.

And you are just as wrong as they were then.

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Im certain you are WRONG! Against all those things.


Your analogy is terrible by the way. All of those things are putting more control for government.


School choice is taking control away from the government. This first step does not do much in that direction, but like I said, it's a first step.

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This is not accurate thinking. This bill is handing control over private education to the government!

Howdy, it is me! said:

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Logos Stick said:

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I haven't read the bill, but wouldn't the bill only apply to those institutions that use vouchers?! If so, then we would still have the same rights we have now.

The Dems have control of the House so vouchers are not happening anyway imo.

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This sentiment is the one that frustrates me: THIS bill doesn't impact me, so I don't care.

True, THIS bill may not impact you, but it's an open door for further legislation that could. What if you send your child to a school that does decide to accept vouchers; now your child is potentially subjected to any impacts whether you personally receive a voucher or not.

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Why can't we just get rid of all the BS that public schools have to deal with now in order to receive enough government funds to keep their doors open instead of creating a new system that is ripe for corruption, even more so than the one that currently exists.

twk said:

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Alta said:

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Will end up just driving up the cost of private school too. Same way guaranteed financial aid for college has done for pretty much all the universities in this country.

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This. It's amazing that people can't see this. If you give money to everyone, you will just see private schools raise their tuition by $10k, so that they can build better facilities, offer more curriculum and extracurricular activities, and pay their teachers more. In the end, the kids stuck in rotten public schools right now will still be stuck in rotten public schools. Claiming that it's about choice for kids in failing public schools is as big is a lie as saying if you like your health plan, you can keep it.

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Another example is Ford increasing the price of the Lightning after they were eligible for the credit.

It seems silly to keep posting the same thing responding to the same people who can'tseem to change their views based on actual evidence, but no, all of the worries about vouchers ruining public or private schools are completely unfounded.

Other states have been doing it for decades now with none of those fear mongering effects happening

twk said:

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Alta said:

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Will end up just driving up the cost of private school too. Same way guaranteed financial aid for college has done for pretty much all the universities in this country.

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This. It's amazing that people can't see this. If you give money to everyone, you will just see private schools raise their tuition by $10k, so that they can build better facilities, offer more curriculum and extracurricular activities, and pay their teachers more. In the end, the kids stuck in rotten public schools right now will still be stuck in rotten public schools. Claiming that it's about choice for kids in failing public schools is as big is a lie as saying if you like your health plan, you can keep it.

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That hasn't happened in the places where it's been done. Usually the amount goes up about 10% of the vouchers. That's usually to cover administrative costs for complying with the laws.

Logos Stick said:

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Tom Fox said:

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the most cool guy said:

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Howdy, it is me! said:

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the most cool guy said:

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Howdy, it is me! said:

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the most cool guy said:

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So it's limited to 100,000 students? WTF. That's useless.

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It's a billion dollar bill. Whatever is left after administration costs will be used for the participants. So, likely, less than 100,000.

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It sounds like they're also going to focus on using the funds for kids moving from public to private rather than helping out parents already paying, and I saw the bull**** about focusing on "low income" families.

I'm assuming if I already have kids in private school and make $600k a year, this will do absolutely nothing to help me.

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Unless you're one of the lucky lottery winners in the 20%.

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What a ****ing joke.

"We're going to give you back some of your money we stole through our criminal property tax system so you can choose where your kids go to school. But only for 1.8% of you, and only if you don't make too much money, and only if you win a lottery." Complete ****ing joke.

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As I have said for the past couple of years, this is nothing more than a new entitlement.

Now we get the privilege of competing against our own tax dollars.

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It's not a new entitlement. Your taxes are not going up because of school choice. If you consider funding education as an entitlement, then at worst this is simply an alternative that has zero delta from your perspective.

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We are essentially paying twice for the students in this program to attend school. Taking money from the general fund to cover this program is less money for other things.