newbie11 said:

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If they're so essential let them get work visas

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When my company has work in Mexico the Mexican government requires them to have work Visas to work in Mexico. Strange concept

Ags4DaWin said:

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docb said:

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It will be interesting to see where all of this ends up. I guess I really don't care that much but I think if US citizens were willing to put in the hard work then these "illegals" wouldn't be snatching up all these labor jobs. They are just filling a void. I think the bigger issue is what caused that void to begin with?

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The 90's called and would like their political and economic philosophy back.

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Call it what you want but in the end you either fix it or embrace it.

Rumpus said:

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Thank you for the lecture on economics where you forgot about supply and demand.

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That was the vaulter guy, not me

Well...he was very thorough in showing where the cost of a good comes from under existing market conditions. Where the example was purposefully dishonest was ignoring the supply/demand mechanics. Remember the cost of gasoline during the pandemic? It plummeted for a while because demand was reduced. A few percentage points of demand/supply mismatch usually mean huge price swings in the final goods cost. Another example would be toilette paper during the pandemic.

A 75% reduction in citrus supply (give or take) due to the fruit rotting on the trees because it's not picked would mean that the entire world would have less citrus to buy. The prices would adjust acordingly.

Did I click on the wrong arrow. Damn.

CanyonAg77 said:

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Rumpus said:

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Thank you for the lecture on economics where you forgot about supply and demand.

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That was the vaulter guy, not me

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What kind of poles are kept in a safe?

Rumpus said:

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Well...he was very thorough in showing where the cost of a good comes from under existing market conditions. Where the example was purposefully dishonest was ignoring the supply/demand mechanics. Remember the cost of gasoline during the pandemic? It plummeted for a while because demand was reduced. A few percentage points of demand/supply mismatch usually mean huge price swings in the final goods cost. Another example would be toilette paper during the pandemic.

A 75% reduction in citrus supply (give or take) due to the fruit rotting on the trees because it's not picked would mean that the entire world would have less citrus to buy. The prices would adjust acordingly.

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And there is where you are so horribly wrong. We've imported over 10 million mostly low skilled workers (let's call it 7 just for kids and such) most who are legally allowed to work. First, they aren't going anywhere. Second, the same folks picking 4 years ago are likely still available in addition to the new labor. Supply of labor will catch up and come to work long before fruit rots.

That fruit will make its way to market just fine.

Rumpus said:

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Well...he was very thorough in showing where the cost of a good comes from under existing market conditions. Where the example was purposefully dishonest was ignoring the supply/demand mechanics. Remember the cost of gasoline during the pandemic? It plummeted for a while because demand was reduced. A few percentage points of demand/supply mismatch usually mean huge price swings in the final goods cost. Another example would be toilette paper during the pandemic.

A 75% reduction in citrus supply (give or take) due to the fruit rotting on the trees because it's not picked would mean that the entire world would have less citrus to buy. The prices would adjust acordingly.

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What is this 75% reduction in citrus supply? If based on the thread title and OP, that is wildly baseless.

There article references one farm in Bakersfield, CA where supposedly "unmarked blacked SUVs" purpotedly to be border patrol were rounding up folks for deportation.

Tom Homan laughs at the idea that in week 1 of Trump 2.0 the BP is focused on a citrus farm in the Central Valley that is likely picked by legal migrants and those on temporary migrant worker programs - but who fear that any interaction with officials is bad, given their lives of shakedowns and bribes they grew up with.

I would be much more worried about the recent cold weather in FL causing the OJ in my tequila sunrise to spike in price.

Also, supply and demand is more complex than just the strike price. Is it your contention that a global transportation lockdown resulted in just "a few percentage points of demand/supply mismatch"?

Back to a few posts above. Many folks would be fine with a 10% premium on OJ to avoid rampant drug use and crime from criminal immigrant gangs.

Or... we could just secure the border, let in who we want, for how long we want, and send them back as we want.

Quote:

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A 75% reduction in citrus supply (give or take) due to the fruit rotting on the trees because it's not picked would mean that the entire world would have less citrus to buy. The prices would adjust acordingly.

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Good grief.

Quote:

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Tom Homan laughs at the idea that in week 1 of Trump 2.0 the BP is focused on a citrus farm in the Central Valley that is likely picked by legal migrants and those on temporary migrant worker programs - but who fear that any interaction with officials is bad, given their lives of shakedowns and bribes they grew up with.

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Somebody gets it. The pickers are easily frightened…..but will return in greater numbers.[/Obi-Wan voice]

I had a Hispanic roomate at A&M. U.S. Citizen. When he was in high school, he was working at his dad's feedlot in Eagle Pass. One day, all the workers started running like their hair was on fire. He didn't know why, but he figured he'd better run, too. A Border Patrol agent tackled him as he was climbing a fence.

Agent was pissed when he discovered he had tackled a citizen, not an illegal, and asked why he ran?

"Well, everyone else was…"

CanyonAg77 said:

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I had a Hispanic roomate at A&M. U.S. Citizen. When he was in high school, he was working at his dad's feedlot in Eagle Pass. One day, all the workers started running like their hair was on fire. He didn't know why, but he figured he'd better run, too. A Border Patrol agent tackled him as he was climbing a fence.

Agent was pissed when he discovered he had tackled a citizen, not an illegal, and asked why he ran?

"Well, everyone else was…"

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Learn to pick

Looking forward to grocery prices skyrocketing! Me? I'm just grabbing the popcorn to watch the ****show.

[This username will be watching from the sidelines since the only reason you created it was to troll and derail. -Staff]

punkintrumpers said:

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Looking forward to grocery prices skyrocketing!

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You must have loved the last four years then!!

Fins Up! said:

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Most farm workers are H2A, so that means they are legal.

I'm not buying that mass deportations are going to disrupt agriculture.

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Is that true? There are a lot of hispanics working farms all across the country. It is likely in the long run that it is easier to hire illegals than to go through the visa process. If most farm workers were H-2A there would be little grousing about the ability of farms to function without them. Have you been to a plant nursery lately? There are commonly mobil homes in the back that house their south of the border employees. I doubt this is all above board.
My house painters are hispanic and my lawn mowers also. Add my tree cutters and some roofers. As I think about it, we need to solve this immigrant thing because all those guys do good work.

Especially since the citrus crop this year is small, due to lack of water.

Won't be citrus, or anything else the Valley, unless we start getting sell water released from the Rio Conchos.

So all Hispanics are illegals?

JayM said:

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Fins Up! said:

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Most farm workers are H2A, so that means they are legal.

I'm not buying that mass deportations are going to disrupt agriculture.

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Is that true? There are a lot of hispanics working farms all across the country. It is likely in the long run that it is easier to hire illegals than to go through the visa process. If most farm workers were H-2A there would be little grousing about the ability of farms to function without them. Have you been to a plant nursery lately? There are commonly mobil homes in the back that house their south of the border employees. I doubt this is all above board.
My house painters are hispanic and my lawn mowers also. Add my tree cutters and some roofers. As I think about it, we need to solve this immigrant thing because all those guys do good work.

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We need to end entitlements and enforce our immigration law vigorously.

Then take stock of where we are at.

This problem has been generations in the making but must have both things done simultaneously to truly know if it is going to be effective longterm.

CanyonAg77 said:

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So all Hispanics are illegals?

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No, I think what most of these folks are saying, particularly Dems, is that people of color who do menial labor are either here illegally or are former slaves who need to maintain plantation style subsistence in order to survive.

Rational folks understand you cannot tell a person's legal status by their appearance and job.

JayM said:

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Fins Up! said:

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Most farm workers are H2A, so that means they are legal.

I'm not buying that mass deportations are going to disrupt agriculture.

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Is that true? There are a lot of hispanics working farms all across the country. It is likely in the long run that it is easier to hire illegals than to go through the visa process. If most farm workers were H-2A there would be little grousing about the ability of farms to function without them. Have you been to a plant nursery lately? There are commonly mobil homes in the back that house their south of the border employees. I doubt this is all above board.
My house painters are hispanic and my lawn mowers also. Add my tree cutters and some roofers. As I think about it, we need to solve this immigrant thing because all those guys do good work.

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I would have no problem replacing every able-bodied American who's lived their entire lives on Welfare with an illegal who can be shown to have been working for an employer and acting as responsible as any American citizen in their community.

I'd also add that we can exchange everyone who is in prison for life with an illegal and send that prisoner to the country of the illegal who is replacing them.

There are more than enough ways to keep the "good ones" here while at the same time getting rid of the waste on our welfare and prison system.

Do you even Leviticus?

You know Soujourn doesn't imply a time frame but by definition includes "temporary". What occurred in the US was not temporary.

flown-the-coop said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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So all Hispanics are illegals?

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No, I think what most of these folks are saying, particularly Dems, is that people of color who do menial labor are either here illegally or are former slaves who need to maintain plantation style subsistence in order to survive.

Rational folks understand you cannot tell a person's legal status by their appearance and job.

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It's more than most want to believe. We have family that owns a large dairy operation and employ several workers from various parts of Central America. Their paperwork checks out but they are not legal. Hard and dependable workers who are content with their job. They are lucky to have them.

docb said:

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flown-the-coop said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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So all Hispanics are illegals?

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No, I think what most of these folks are saying, particularly Dems, is that people of color who do menial labor are either here illegally or are former slaves who need to maintain plantation style subsistence in order to survive.

Rational folks understand you cannot tell a person's legal status by their appearance and job.

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It's more than most want to believe. We have family that owns a large dairy operation and employ several workers from various parts of Central America. Their paperwork checks out but they are not legal. Hard and dependable workers who are content with their job. They are lucky to have them.

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The paperwork always checks out, and the employers know when they've had the same name and social work with them before, even though the new guy doesn't look anything like the other guy before.

It's the open secret everyone with an ounce of honesty admits is going on.

And, yes, they are hard and dependable workers. They, unlike Americans, have no problem working hard - that's all they've known back home - and to these working ones, they're living the American Dream. All they need is a way to become citizens.

Maybe we need to just make it easier to become citizens. I'm all for bringing in folks who want to work hard.

docb said:

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It's more than most want to believe. We have family that owns a large dairy operation and employ several workers from various parts of Central America. Their paperwork checks out but they are not legal. Hard and dependable workers who are content with their job. They are lucky to have them.

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Trying to honestly make sense of this. I understand the concept of phony documentation and that it ain't that hard to get it, but how would one know its fake as a dairy farm owner?

Also think most folks appreciate these laborers if they are law abiding, pay into the system, and take steps to assimilate into our culture, learn out language and be a productive member of society - aka a good citizen.

My biggest issue if that folks want to round up employers like your dairy farming family and seize their operations and lock them up because they were not expert forensic document inspectors when hiring laborers.

My honest thought is that none of this is going to happen on any large scale. It's just Trump blowing smoke which he is very good at. He and his crew are at least smart enough to realize that it would be detrimental for our country to ship all of these people off in a large scale event. It would also be damn near impossible too. Just publicity IMO.

Agree.

"Impossible is what we do best"

There's no crime in hiring LEGAL H2A workers from South Africa and Mexico

Your reminder that immigrants feed our nation. They're not stealing your jobs and deserve respect and dignity for the service they provide to us. Really impressed with this insightful explanation by @OwyheeProduce. pic.twitter.com/M257GTherJ

— John Ryan E (@RyanElward) August 11, 2024

I would like to add that the people in this video working for this farmer are working here LEGALLY in the United States.
I don't know what some are trying to prove from the video in regards to Donald Trumps actions to help secure our borders.
H2A individuals are hired and employed in the United States under strict guidelines and LEGAL processing in coordination with the US Government. Every single person in this video is NOT an illegal alien.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C9kHgDIpG-a/?igsh=dXZ4ZjR5b2JseDZn

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DCjbgdCpbQU/?igsh=MW56cWMwMTRzMnJ5OQ==

There are many H2A workers from South Africa and Mexico working in agricultural communities all across Texas.
It's definitely a necessity with today's domestic labor pool.
A big question to ask is why has our country failed us for the fact that it's difficult to find American citizens that are willing, competent, and able to do the tasks required by many employers in agriculture.
Why? I'm not sure I have the answer.
Every generation seems to complain about the downfall of American society. I have yet to see a past generation give praise to the future our current society holds. It's a shame.
How do we fix it? Solid core nuclear family values and Christian faith would be a great start.

docb said:

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Maybe we need to just make it easier to become citizens. I'm all for bringing in folks who want to work hard.

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Maybe we need to quit paying people not to work and get them in the field.

Bondag said:

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docb said:

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Maybe we need to just make it easier to become citizens. I'm all for bringing in folks who want to work hard.

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Maybe we need to quit paying people not to work and get them in the field.

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Yea right. Those lazy ****s are going to work hard. Lol.

docb said:

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Maybe we need to just make it easier to become citizens. I'm all for bringing in folks who want to work hard.

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Trump plays this right, he will have the Hispanic vote locked up for a generation or more.

docb said:

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Bondag said:

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docb said:

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Maybe we need to just make it easier to become citizens. I'm all for bringing in folks who want to work hard.

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Maybe we need to quit paying people not to work and get them in the field.

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Yea right. Those lazy ****s are going to work hard. Lol.

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Vivek is that you?

Bondag said:

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docb said:

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Maybe we need to just make it easier to become citizens. I'm all for bringing in folks who want to work hard.

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Maybe we need to quit paying people not to work and get them in the field.

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Maybe we could hold every business, big and small, that enables illegals to come over by hiring them.