Krombopulos Michael said:

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ChoppinDs40 said:

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Really wish we'd have figured out robot fruit pickers first.

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This. Lack of labor on farms is going to cause some slowdowns in the supply chains.

Watch for stories of Jobs that Americans won't do.

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Crisis causes action. Solve the problem and stop cheating the system. Sounds like the likely issue is going to be a short term increase in prices while farms solve the problem. Long term we will either end up with people on legal visas, or Americans deciding to do the work, or automation. If that means we have to pay a little more for an avocado for a bit so be it.

DrEvazanPhD said:

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BigFred said:

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All fun and games until the food and housing shortages start to creep up. House prices will triple without Mexican immigrant framers and construction workers.

Not to mention Tariffs. Buckle up for the show!!

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Last job site i was near, most of the framers were Caucasian. And those that weren't were El Salvadorian.

Roofers, on the other hand...won't find a lot of Irish up there in the south in summer.

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Looking out my window now watching Mexican immigrants doing foundation work. Digging tunnels underneath homes in the freezing cold.

Not seen a Caucasian yet....other than occasionally showing up in a new Ford F-150 sitting,,,,,,, and sipping on coffee.

1. Identify needed service
2. Provide service
3. Profit

Stop crying and get to work.

CrackerJackAg said:

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Tom Fox said:

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I am perfectly fine with targeting employers violating the law.

But if we are going to do that, we need to remove government from the market to stop interfering with wages and worker availability.

End entitlements and the minimum wage. The fruit will get picked at whatever wage the market dictates.

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There is something wrong with you.

You want people to work for less than $8 an hour full time?

You need evaluate your entire relationship with God, Nature and Man. It's flawed across the board.

I'm ok with a minimum wage. Slavery is wrong.

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Minimum wage is a horrible idea that skews labor costs. Repeal it, with extreme prejudice.

flyrancher said:

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Yep, picking fruit during the day and stealing and killing at night. Obviously not all of them, but a high enough percentage to be a real problem for our citizens.

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If you're picking fruit all day, not a lot of energy left to go stealing at night. And it's not like fruit orchards are in Beverly Hills

Easier to steal during the day, anyway. Nobody home, no headlights and flashlights for the neighbors to see.

BigFred said:

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DrEvazanPhD said:

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BigFred said:

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All fun and games until the food and housing shortages start to creep up. House prices will triple without Mexican immigrant framers and construction workers.

Not to mention Tariffs. Buckle up for the show!!

---

Last job site i was near, most of the framers were Caucasian. And those that weren't were El Salvadorian.

Roofers, on the other hand...won't find a lot of Irish up there in the south in summer.

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Looking out my window now watching Mexican immigrants doing foundation work. Digging tunnels underneath homes in the freezing cold.

Not seen a Caucasian yet....other than occasionally showing up in a new Ford F-150 sitting,,,,,,, and sipping on coffee.

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We definitely need to preserve your constitutional right to lower than legal wages for immigrant labor.

BigFred said:

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DrEvazanPhD said:

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BigFred said:

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All fun and games until the food and housing shortages start to creep up. House prices will triple without Mexican immigrant framers and construction workers.

Not to mention Tariffs. Buckle up for the show!!

---

Last job site i was near, most of the framers were Caucasian. And those that weren't were El Salvadorian.

Roofers, on the other hand...won't find a lot of Irish up there in the south in summer.

---

Looking out my window now watching Mexican immigrants doing foundation work. Digging tunnels underneath homes in the freezing cold.

Not seen a Caucasian yet....other than occasionally showing up in a new Ford F-150 sitting,,,,,,, and sipping on coffee.

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Sounds like you are into exploiting cheap human labor so you can stay inside all warm and comfy.

jagvocate said:

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We need to jail the employers who hire illegal aliens. A few well-publicized biz owners in cuffs will stop this nationwide, with the quickness.

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D.R. Horton subcontracts out in layers of subcontractors so they get the super cheap labor too.

Not a secret.

There's never been a U.S. without "illegal" fruit pickers. Ever.

It's amazing how so many people can't conceive that two things can be true at once.

Yes, many illegal immigrants work very hard at tough jobs. And yes, some Afghanis are pediatric surgeons with loving families. And some Indians can write code and their kids study hard. Etc., etc.

But it's also true that American citizens and American culture have been harmed by mass immigration, perhaps irreparably, with the negatives far outweighing the positives.

We've had open borders for decades now. It won't hurt to enforce our laws and put Americans first for awhile.

considering the source, i would say this is not true ...

Quote:

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The New Republic was founded in 1914 to bring liberalism into the modern era. The founders understood that the challenges facing a nation transformed by the Industrial Revolution and mass immigration required bold new thinking.
Today's New Republic is wrestling with the same fundamental questions: how to build a more inclusive and democratic civil society, and how to fight for a fairer political economy in an age of rampaging inequality. We also face challenges that belong entirely to this age, from the climate crisis to Republicans hell-bent on subverting democratic governance.
We're determined to continue building on our founding mission.

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The argument that people can't raise a family on minimum wage is flawed for multiple reasons.

You aren't raising 2 kids on $7.50 an hour.

You are also likely getting some form of welfare.

SNAP assistance for food

Low Income government housing benefits.

Medicaid benefits

You could work overtime and get more money, but you then run the risk of losing your welfare, SNAP, and housing benefits. Need to limit the time people can be on these and drug test all recipients.

docb said:

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MAGA might need to be changed to Make America mow their own lawn again.

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that's what kids are for. I was promoted to landscaping supervisor a few years ago and have mowed my lawn ~5 times since.

agwrestler said:

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docb said:

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MAGA might need to be changed to Make America mow their own lawn again.

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that's what kids are for. I was promoted to landscaping supervisor a few years ago and have mowed my lawn ~5 times since.

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Lol. When I was a kid I mowed about 15 yards to make money. They were mostly for older folks and single women. You just don't see kids mowing yards like that anymore. Frankly I am amazed how few people actually mow their own yard period these days. I think it would be hilarious if all these lawn crews disappeared.

aggie93 said:

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Krombopulos Michael said:

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ChoppinDs40 said:

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Really wish we'd have figured out robot fruit pickers first.

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This. Lack of labor on farms is going to cause some slowdowns in the supply chains.

Watch for stories of Jobs that Americans won't do.

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Crisis causes action. Solve the problem and stop cheating the system. Sounds like the likely issue is going to be a short term increase in prices while farms solve the problem. Long term we will either end up with people on legal visas, or Americans deciding to do the work, or automation. If that means we have to pay a little more for an avocado for a bit so be it.

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I don't think it will necessarily be a full blown crisis (a bunch of our food comes from international producers) but we definitely going to find out which domestic big vegetable farms/poultry and meat packagers are using illegals.


Farm labor is not for the weak or unmotivated.


Maybe we can suspend state and federal income tax on those lower paying AG jobs to incentivize people to get US citizens into the fields?

It's a shame really, most of the farm labor just want to work to provide for themselves and family. I have no problem putting those type of people on temporary work visas. It's the criminals and grifters that need to go.

ChoppinDs40 said:

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Really wish we'd have figured out robot fruit pickers first.

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Agree, the illegals busting their azz on farms and meat packing plants for low wages should be the last to go.

We need to wean ourselves off that cheap labor and find alternatives. Maybe teach the fearful LGBT kids how to pick fruit....their journalism degrees are going to be worthless anyway.

Legal people are also afraid. Among other things, mistakes are made. Plus families are mixed. Some documented and some not.

aft192021 said:

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Legal people are also afraid. Among other things, mistakes are made. Plus families are mixed. Some documented and some not.

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None of these examples are good excuses to ignore the law.

ChoppinDs40 said:

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Really wish we'd have figured out robot fruit pickers first.

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2.9 million Ag jobs, and we had plenty of workers before the open border policies. We will have plenty again

CrackerJackAg said:

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Tom Fox said:

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I am perfectly fine with targeting employers violating the law.

But if we are going to do that, we need to remove government from the market to stop interfering with wages and worker availability.

End entitlements and the minimum wage. The fruit will get picked at whatever wage the market dictates.

---

There is something wrong with you.

You want people to work for less than $8 an hour full time?

You need evaluate your entire relationship with God, Nature and Man. It's flawed across the board.

I'm ok with a minimum wage. Slavery is wrong.

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What job today pays the federal minimum wage? We effectively live in a market without a minimum wage.

CrackerJackAg said:

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Definitely Not A Cop said:

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CrackerJackAg said:

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Tom Fox said:

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I am perfectly fine with targeting employers violating the law.

But if we are going to do that, we need to remove government from the market to stop interfering with wages and worker availability.

End entitlements and the minimum wage. The fruit will get picked at whatever wage the market dictates.

---

There is something wrong with you.

You want people to work for less than $8 an hour full time?

You need evaluate your entire relationship with God, Nature and Man. It's flawed across the board.

I'm ok with a minimum wage. Slavery is wrong.

---

He wants people to work for what the market dictates. Right now we pay Mexicans migrants significantly less to pick fruit and process meat of what we would pay a citizen to do it. Do you consider that slavery? End minimum wage, get rid of immigrants being able to work for less than what a citizen would, and let the market dictate how much it should actually be.

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I also made the point that $7.25 an hour is unethical & unrealistic. If immigrants were willing to work for less than that amount of money anyway then it's a moot point and Americans aren't jumping in at $6.50.

I think the minimum wage would have to be $20 an hour for Americans to start under cutting it.

No one in this country is working a full-time job at the current hourly rate.

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It is not primarily minimum wage that is distorting the market. It is entitlements. Entitlements have essentially set a floor with SNAP, section 8, TANF and Medicaid where the family gets around $30k for doing nothing.

Cradle to grave entitlements. Eliminate those and we will see what wage people are actually willing to work for to survive.

BigFred said:

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All fun and games until the food and housing shortages start to creep up. House prices will triple without Mexican immigrant framers and construction workers.

Not to mention Tariffs. Buckle up for the show!!

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As long as he cuts fed income tax rates for those paying the lion's share, I'll sign up for some of that action.

Martin Q. Blank said:

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CrackerJackAg said:

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Tom Fox said:

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I am perfectly fine with targeting employers violating the law.

But if we are going to do that, we need to remove government from the market to stop interfering with wages and worker availability.

End entitlements and the minimum wage. The fruit will get picked at whatever wage the market dictates.

---

There is something wrong with you.

You want people to work for less than $8 an hour full time?

You need evaluate your entire relationship with God, Nature and Man. It's flawed across the board.

I'm ok with a minimum wage. Slavery is wrong.

---

What job today pays the federal minimum wage? We effectively live in a market without a minimum wage.

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Go to the Home Depot parking lot and see how many will work for $8. Zilcho.

BigFred said:

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DrEvazanPhD said:

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BigFred said:

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All fun and games until the food and housing shortages start to creep up. House prices will triple without Mexican immigrant framers and construction workers.

Not to mention Tariffs. Buckle up for the show!!

---

Last job site i was near, most of the framers were Caucasian. And those that weren't were El Salvadorian.

Roofers, on the other hand...won't find a lot of Irish up there in the south in summer.

---

Looking out my window now watching Mexican immigrants doing foundation work. Digging tunnels underneath homes in the freezing cold.

Not seen a Caucasian yet....other than occasionally showing up in a new Ford F-150 sitting,,,,,,, and sipping on coffee.

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How do you know they're Mexicans?

EclipseAg said:

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It's amazing how so many people can't conceive that two things can be true at once.

Yes, many illegal immigrants work very hard at tough jobs. And yes, some Afghanis are pediatric surgeons with loving families. And some Indians can write code and their kids study hard. Etc., etc.

But it's also true that American citizens and American culture have been harmed by mass immigration, perhaps irreparably, with the negatives far outweighing the positives.

We've had open borders for decades now. It won't hurt to enforce our laws and put Americans first for awhile.

---

1000%
Common sense is lacking sometimes, on this board.

docb said:

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agwrestler said:

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docb said:

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MAGA might need to be changed to Make America mow their own lawn again.

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that's what kids are for. I was promoted to landscaping supervisor a few years ago and have mowed my lawn ~5 times since.

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Lol. When I was a kid I mowed about 15 yards to make money. They were mostly for older folks and single women. You just don't see kids mowing yards like that anymore. Frankly I am amazed how few people actually mow their own yard period these days. I think it would be hilarious if all these lawn crews disappeared.

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Circumstances changed.
I mowed my own lawn when I bought my house from 2010 to 2021. About 12 years. It was hard work but I enjoyed it. Then I got busier and would postpone and the grass got too tall. So I hired someone - it is a Caucasian guy called Dan.

My son has never made money mowing because the choice is whether to make him go around the neighborhood and have him mow lawns for small amounts or money, OR spend the same time building his application and acquiring new skills. Pros and cons to both. We ultimately felt he is better off doing school work and associated things. He is in college now and does not work at McD or DQ, he is too busy for that with his CS courses and I don't want o disrupt that as I see him in the Engineering Library late night.

Round up and force the homeless to pick the fruit. Their motivation to be in a home and not on drugs would increase 10 fold.

DrEvazanPhD said:

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BigFred said:

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DrEvazanPhD said:

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BigFred said:

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All fun and games until the food and housing shortages start to creep up. House prices will triple without Mexican immigrant framers and construction workers.

Not to mention Tariffs. Buckle up for the show!!

---

Last job site i was near, most of the framers were Caucasian. And those that weren't were El Salvadorian.

Roofers, on the other hand...won't find a lot of Irish up there in the south in summer.

---

Looking out my window now watching Mexican immigrants doing foundation work. Digging tunnels underneath homes in the freezing cold.

Not seen a Caucasian yet....other than occasionally showing up in a new Ford F-150 sitting,,,,,,, and sipping on coffee.

---

How do you know they're Mexicans?

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Pretty sure he asked each one of them for their passports.

Krombopulos Michael said:

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aggie93 said:

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Krombopulos Michael said:

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ChoppinDs40 said:

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Really wish we'd have figured out robot fruit pickers first.

---

This. Lack of labor on farms is going to cause some slowdowns in the supply chains.

Watch for stories of Jobs that Americans won't do.

---

Crisis causes action. Solve the problem and stop cheating the system. Sounds like the likely issue is going to be a short term increase in prices while farms solve the problem. Long term we will either end up with people on legal visas, or Americans deciding to do the work, or automation. If that means we have to pay a little more for an avocado for a bit so be it.

---

I don't think it will necessarily be a full blown crisis (a bunch of our food comes from international producers) but we definitely going to find out which domestic big vegetable farms/poultry and meat packagers are using illegals.


Farm labor is not for the weak or unmotivated.


Maybe we can suspend state and federal income tax on those lower paying AG jobs to incentivize people to get US citizens into the fields?

It's a shame really, most of the farm labor just want to work to provide for themselves and family. I have no problem putting those type of people on temporary work visas. It's the criminals and grifters that need to go.

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I have no problem with temporary work visas either if we need the workers. The key though is by simply using illegals we haven't addressed the core issue and we have created a much more serious problem. Enforce the law and then we can talk about solutions for the problem. Farm labor can be automated to a large degree as well and will continue to be. What we don't need is volumes of poorly educated illegals coming here and utilizing US benefits without paying taxes. I also thought we already do have a temporary visa to address this but it's just not used because there is no enforcement against illegal migrants.

The irony to me on this issue btw is that the paragon of Hispanic Democrats was Cesar Chavez who was a vocal opponent of illegal immigration. He was a Marxist but at least he understood supply and demand. If you allow unlimited labor to come in from Mexico you can't organize and charge more for your labor in the US.

Newtonag said:

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Round up and force the homeless to pick the fruit. Their motivation to be in a home and not on drugs would increase 10 fold.

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yea that's gonna work

BigFred said:

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All fun and games until the food and housing shortages start to creep up. House prices will triple without Mexican immigrant framers and construction workers.

Not to mention Tariffs. Buckle up for the show!!

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Houses to triple? LOL. Lawn mowing? Maybe. Home prices? Well, no.

docb said:

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Newtonag said:

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Round up and force the homeless to pick the fruit. Their motivation to be in a home and not on drugs would increase 10 fold.

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yea that's gonna work

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I wonder. What percentage of the homeless are mentally ill?

Science Denier said:

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docb said:

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Newtonag said:

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Round up and force the homeless to pick the fruit. Their motivation to be in a home and not on drugs would increase 10 fold.

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yea that's gonna work

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I wonder. What percentage of the homeless are mentally ill?

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A fair amount I think. I've also always thought that a certain percentage of the unemployed are simply unemployable.

Not 40% of the country though. And that's how many currently aren't even looking for work anymore.