We have 53 minus Collins and Murk, that is 51. McCain is dead.

I think we have a good shot at finally killing it. It's currently nowhere near the same law that was originally passed but still is bad law.

Won't the Senate still need to have 60 votes to advance a bill killing Obamacare?

Demosthenes81 said:

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Won't the Senate still need to have 60 votes to advance a bill killing Obamacare?

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They didn't last time when McCain killed it. I guess they will use reconciliation.

Congress is exempt from it anyway, so what do they care? Zero motivation for them to do a damn thing about it.

They are not exempt but have illegally worked around it. Cato has an article on it:

"Contrary to assurances and in violation of federal law, the Obama administration shielded lawmakers from an effective pay cut of up to $12,000 each by granting Congress several types of special treatment unavailable to the public. It deemed Congress eligible to participate in D.C.'s small-business exchange, though both federal and D.C. law prohibit it. That form of special treatment gave rise to another: It made Congress the only large employer in the country that can make tax-free contributions toward its employees' exchange-plan premiums. The act of issuing those payments conflicts with other federal laws, and bestows yet another form of special treatment on Congress: Members of Congress and their staff are the only group of federal workers who receive FEHBP premium contributions for non-FEHBP coverage"

https://www.cato.org/commentary/congress-illegal-egregious-obamacare-exemption-explained

Can't wait for insurance companies to restart not issuing policies based on pre-existing conditions.

Exactly. Repealing and replacing Obamacare will happen I think, but probably not in the first 6 months. A lot of other things to unscrew first.

No way they repeal Obamacare. They might make some more tweaks but there is no way they will get all the R's behind a new plan. There are bigger issues that need to be addressed and that will take all of the political capital Trump and the R leadership can muster.

Kansas Kid said:

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No way they repeal Obamacare. They might make some more tweaks but there is no way they will get all the R's behind a new plan. There are bigger issues that need to be addressed and that will take all of the political capital Trump and the R leadership can muster.

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This. Repeal ain't gonna happen.

Maybe a few tweaks, that's it.

MemphisAg1 said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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No way they repeal Obamacare. They might make some more tweaks but there is no way they will get all the R's behind a new plan. There are bigger issues that need to be addressed and that will take all of the political capital Trump and the R leadership can muster.

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This. Repeal ain't gonna happen.

Maybe a few tweaks, that's it.

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They effectively took out the most hated part last time by effectively eliminating the mandate to buy. It technically still exists as I understand it but the penalty for not having it is $0.

Most forget all the administrative reporting that businesses still have to do every year. Pointless. It should end.

Kansas Kid said:

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No way they repeal Obamacare. They might make some more tweaks but there is no way they will get all the R's behind a new plan. There are bigger issues that need to be addressed and that will take all of the political capital Trump and the R leadership can muster.

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They were one vote short of repealing it before. The original intent of Obamacare was to have young healthy people required to carry insurance to pay for old sick people. That never happened. Obama ignored that part of the law and Trump nuked that part entirely.

So all we have left are the worst parts of it. I expect them to repeal those leftover parts. It's driven up the cost of healthcare and insurance for everyone.

Ed Harley said:

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You have no idea what you're talking about. I had a child born with a heart defect that required open heart surgery at 3 months. What did she burn down?

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A newborn child would be covered under the parents' policy and a pre-existing condition exclusion wouldn't apply.

Having a child without having insurance, then deciding "oopsie, I better get some" is a different question that does fit the hypothetical.

Logos Stick said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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No way they repeal Obamacare. They might make some more tweaks but there is no way they will get all the R's behind a new plan. There are bigger issues that need to be addressed and that will take all of the political capital Trump and the R leadership can muster.

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They were one vote short of repealing it before.

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They had a 45ish seat advantage in the House last time and repealed it by only 4 votes.

They will only have a 5 seat advantage this time around. And are probably more dependent on populist politics now than they were last time.

Logos Stick said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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No way they repeal Obamacare. They might make some more tweaks but there is no way they will get all the R's behind a new plan. There are bigger issues that need to be addressed and that will take all of the political capital Trump and the R leadership can muster.

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They were one vote short of repealing it before. The original intent of Obamacare was to have young healthy people required to carry insurance to pay for old sick people. That never happened. Obama ignored that part of the law and Trump nuked that part entirely.

So all we have left are the worst parts of it. I expect them to repeal those leftover parts. It's driven up the cost of healthcare and insurance for everyone.

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Actually, it kind of did. Biden quietly killed catastrophic plans for the young this year. So now younger workers who typically do not need full blown healthcare plans are forced to buy expensive plans if they want coverage because Biden is a POS.

TXAggie2011 said:

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Logos Stick said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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No way they repeal Obamacare. They might make some more tweaks but there is no way they will get all the R's behind a new plan. There are bigger issues that need to be addressed and that will take all of the political capital Trump and the R leadership can muster.

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They were one vote short of repealing it before.

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They had a 45ish seat advantage in the House last time and repealed it by only 4 votes.

They will only have a 5 seat advantage this time around. And are probably more dependent on populist politics now than they were last time.

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If Trump threatens to end their subsidies, they will get on board. Money talks.

Kansas Kid said:

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No way they repeal Obamacare. They might make some more tweaks but there is no way they will get all the R's behind a new plan. There are bigger issues that need to be addressed and that will take all of the political capital Trump and the R leadership can muster.

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Correct. Plus it is very hard to repeal or even massively change giveaway programs,

It's not going anywhere. Despite it having made things worse for most people, it would be politically unpopular to repeal it. Everything will continue to get worse until it reaches a point where universal healthcare is implemented. That will suck, and eventually they'll add private plans on top of that, which will probably be more of a true competitive market that works well. Everyone (with money) will be stuck paying for the universal healthcare and private healthcare. Private healthcare will be much better and the subsequent demagoguery will result in subsidies to poor people to also buy private insurance on top of their universal care, which will ruin that system over time too.

There is no way in hell the Rs try to repeal coverage of pre-existing conditions. They would waste all of their mandate on that one issue and the populace would turn on them.

Would be absolutely stupid to even float that idea.

Seven Costanza said:

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It's not going anywhere. Despite it having made things worse for most people, it would be politically unpopular to repeal it. Everything will continue to get worse until it reaches a point where universal healthcare is implemented. That will suck, and eventually they'll add private plans on top of that, which will probably be more of a true competitive market that works well. Everyone (with money) will be stuck paying for the universal healthcare and private healthcare. Private healthcare will be much better and the subsequent demagoguery will result in subsidies to poor people to also buy private insurance on top of their universal care, which will ruin that system over time too.

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Yep. It's what countries with socialized medicine have done. People with money have access to private healthcare.

IOW, our healthcare system will become like public / private schooling already is in Texas.

one safe place said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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No way they repeal Obamacare. They might make some more tweaks but there is no way they will get all the R's behind a new plan. There are bigger issues that need to be addressed and that will take all of the political capital Trump and the R leadership can muster.

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Correct. Plus it is very hard to repeal or even massively change giveaway programs,

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Unfortunately this is the calculus that was used with Obamacare and other entitlement programs. Once they have been in place for a long time, a large majority of Americans end up supporting it and will strongly oppose any elimination of it.

I would slowly amend Obamacare over the next 10-12 years working towards ending it, but I imagine the GOP will do nothing.

Kansas Kid said:

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one safe place said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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No way they repeal Obamacare. They might make some more tweaks but there is no way they will get all the R's behind a new plan. There are bigger issues that need to be addressed and that will take all of the political capital Trump and the R leadership can muster.

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Correct. Plus it is very hard to repeal or even massively change giveaway programs,

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Unfortunately this is the calculus that was used with Obamacare and other entitlement programs. Once they have been in place for a long time, a large majority of Americans end up supporting it and will strongly oppose any elimination of it.

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You're right about the large majority part. Even conservative friends of mine like being able to have their kids part of their insurance plans until they're 26.

Kansas Kid said:

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one safe place said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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No way they repeal Obamacare. They might make some more tweaks but there is no way they will get all the R's behind a new plan. There are bigger issues that need to be addressed and that will take all of the political capital Trump and the R leadership can muster.

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Correct. Plus it is very hard to repeal or even massively change giveaway programs,

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Unfortunately this is the calculus that was used with Obamacare and other entitlement programs. Once they have been in place for a long time, a large majority of Americans end up supporting it and will strongly oppose any elimination of it.

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The vast majority of citizens don't benefit from Obamacare. 90% don't have coverage at all or get coverage through their company, not the exchange. It cost almost $150 billion in taxpayer subsidies this year. It's nothing like Medicare or SS as far as entitlements. It can easily be replaced for most of those on the exchange by allowing inexpensive, catastrophic policies.

No Spin Ag said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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one safe place said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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No way they repeal Obamacare. They might make some more tweaks but there is no way they will get all the R's behind a new plan. There are bigger issues that need to be addressed and that will take all of the political capital Trump and the R leadership can muster.

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Correct. Plus it is very hard to repeal or even massively change giveaway programs,

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Unfortunately this is the calculus that was used with Obamacare and other entitlement programs. Once they have been in place for a long time, a large majority of Americans end up supporting it and will strongly oppose any elimination of it.

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You're right about the large majority part. Even conservative friends of mine like being able to have their kids part of their insurance plans until they're 26.

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There is nothing to prevent inscos and companies from doing that on their own.

Logos Stick said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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one safe place said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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No way they repeal Obamacare. They might make some more tweaks but there is no way they will get all the R's behind a new plan. There are bigger issues that need to be addressed and that will take all of the political capital Trump and the R leadership can muster.

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Correct. Plus it is very hard to repeal or even massively change giveaway programs,

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Unfortunately this is the calculus that was used with Obamacare and other entitlement programs. Once they have been in place for a long time, a large majority of Americans end up supporting it and will strongly oppose any elimination of it.

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You're right about the large majority part. Even conservative friends of mine like being able to have their kids part of their insurance plans until they're 26.

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There is nothing to prevent inscos and companies from doing that on their own.

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Yet, until Obamacare, they didn't.

There's a lot of things they could do that people would appreciate, but for some reason, they don't.

No Spin Ag said:

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Logos Stick said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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one safe place said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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No way they repeal Obamacare. They might make some more tweaks but there is no way they will get all the R's behind a new plan. There are bigger issues that need to be addressed and that will take all of the political capital Trump and the R leadership can muster.

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Correct. Plus it is very hard to repeal or even massively change giveaway programs,

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Unfortunately this is the calculus that was used with Obamacare and other entitlement programs. Once they have been in place for a long time, a large majority of Americans end up supporting it and will strongly oppose any elimination of it.

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You're right about the large majority part. Even conservative friends of mine like being able to have their kids part of their insurance plans until they're 26.

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There is nothing to prevent inscos and companies from doing that on their own.

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Yet, until Obamacare, they didn't.

There's a lot of things they could do that people would appreciate, but for some reason, they don't.

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Why not make a law to cover them until they are 30 then? Or 35?

They didn't do it before because kids used to become adults, move out, go to work and get their own insurance.

Ed Harley said:

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You have no idea what you're talking about. I had a child born with a heart defect that required open heart surgery at 3 months. What did she burn down?

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You misunderstand.

I am not saying that SHE burned down anything.

And I did not say the people in my analogy burned their own house down.

I said the house burned down. You are interpreting that I am assigning blame to people with preexisting medical conditions. I never did that. I simply stated that people with preexisting conditions are more prone to other medical problems.

Do you deny that this is a fact?

In regards to your daughter. Her cardiovascular health will always be more vulnerable to having future health problems.

She is more likely to require extra care throughout the course of her life.

She will be more expensive and riskier for the insurance company to cover.

So should she not have to pay her premiums accordingly?

Or are you stating that the rest of the people who engage the services of the insurance company should pay for her care?

It sucks she has to go through that, but it is wonderful we live in a time they can correct the defect and help her be as healthy as possible. Isn't that awesome?

But it seems like you want everyone else to pay for the health of your daughter. And that is a wrong expectation.

that is historically what charity is for and there is nothing wrong with that, but she is not ENTITLED to be cared for at the expense of strangers.

Sorry. But that would be socialism.

And in a socialist society she would have been written off as an unacceptable risk.

It's wonderful we live in a capitalist society where you have the opportunity to pay healthcare providers and doctors to save your daughter's life instead of being forced to watch her die by the state.

Parents have been forced to do that in countries like England.

Has there been any entitlement program that the U.S. government ever canceled?

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And it's bull*****

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Only us end users seem to have a problem with it.

Hmmmmm..