HollywoodBQ said:

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Funky Winkerbean said:

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Don't public employees pay less into the system?

---

Some public employees pay zero into Social Security.

Most typically teachers. But other local government and county government employees often have their own retirement funds.

Last night, I was discussing this topic with a family member who is a retired teacher. I think a lot of it has to do with eligibility for receiving their spouse's social security after they die. And some of it has to do with social security distribution from jobs they worked other than being a teacher, fireman etc.

---

But they have the option to pay the entire amount into SS if they choose to do so, right?

Congress should have to use SS like a swear jar. Everytime they make a stock trade or send money to foreign nations they have to put money in SS. It might not solve the issue but it would be a step in the right direction.

No, they do not.

The district decides whether to pay SS or not and only about 15 districts in Texas do so at this time. There was a loophole until 2004 that if your last day working paid into SS then you would get your spouses benefits.

It was an unfair law and hurt a lot of families. It is sad that it took this long for people to get their spouses hard earned money.

This will also hopefully help in teacher recruitment.

Richierich2323 said:

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No, they do not.

The district decides whether to pay SS or not and only about 15 districts in Texas do so at this time. There was a loophole until 2004 that if your last day working paid into SS then you would get your spouses benefits.

It was an unfair law and hurt a lot of families. It is sad that it took this long for people to get their spouses hard earned money.

This will also hopefully help in teacher recruitment.

---

But if the employee pays the entire amount (including the employers' share), don't they get credit for the quarter/year?

MaroonStain said:

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SS gets paid out of General Fund. There is not SS account. Gaslighting 103.

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Wrong! There is a SS account, but it is a paper IOU account which says that we loaded the money to the general fund and now each month the general fund has to reimburse SS the amount going out to SS recipients.

I was born in 1945, about two (2) weeks after my father's Infantry Division landed on Okinawa!
I NEVER thought SS would be there for me, and planned accordingly.
When I got to 66 the clerk proposed that I wait to 70 to start.
I did the math and told him I would gamble that I wouldn't live to where I would go into debt with or without that little bit more of SS payments!

If you plan on a retirement based just on your SS payments, then you are not planning out your retirement wisely.

UTExan said:

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Richierich2323 said:

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No, they do not.

The district decides whether to pay SS or not and only about 15 districts in Texas do so at this time. There was a loophole until 2004 that if your last day working paid into SS then you would get your spouses benefits.

It was an unfair law and hurt a lot of families. It is sad that it took this long for people to get their spouses hard earned money.

This will also hopefully help in teacher recruitment.

---

But if the employee pays the entire amount (including the employers' share), don't they get credit for the quarter/year?

---

You get credit for the quarter/year, but up until this bill passed, you only got paid HALF or less, of the amount those credits said you earned. Before this bill passed, you were financially penalized for receiving a pension. All this bill does is take away the penalty.

Disability is the system getting defrauded

If Congress does nothing, when SS goes "insolvent", it won't go away....but SS payments will go down by 20 to 25% as payments will match incoming SS taxes. The longer Congress waits, the more difficult it will be to keep distributions at the same level.

Bocephus said:

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UTExan said:

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Richierich2323 said:

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No, they do not.

The district decides whether to pay SS or not and only about 15 districts in Texas do so at this time. There was a loophole until 2004 that if your last day working paid into SS then you would get your spouses benefits.

It was an unfair law and hurt a lot of families. It is sad that it took this long for people to get their spouses hard earned money.

This will also hopefully help in teacher recruitment.

---

But if the employee pays the entire amount (including the employers' share), don't they get credit for the quarter/year?

---

You get credit for the quarter/year, but up until this bill passed, you only got paid HALF or less, of the amount those credits said you earned. Before this bill passed, you were financially penalized for receiving a pension. All this bill does is take away the penalty.

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Thank you. That clarifies misperception I had about SS.

dreyOO said:

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HollywoodBQ said:

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I'd rather we spend $200B on old people in the USA than give $200B to Ukraine or Israel or whomever else we think needs our money more than we do.

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I don't expect to see a nickel. And I hate all this waste. But I agree with every word of this.

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I'm 13 years away from being eligible to start drawing SS and I don't plan to see any of that either.

I sure hope my 12 years paid into Australian Superannuation pays off. Along with my 401(k), etc.

UTExan said:

---

HollywoodBQ said:

---

Funky Winkerbean said:

---

Don't public employees pay less into the system?

---

Some public employees pay zero into Social Security.

Most typically teachers. But other local government and county government employees often have their own retirement funds.

Last night, I was discussing this topic with a family member who is a retired teacher. I think a lot of it has to do with eligibility for receiving their spouse's social security after they die. And some of it has to do with social security distribution from jobs they worked other than being a teacher, fireman etc.

---

But they have the option to pay the entire amount into SS if they choose to do so, right?

---

I'm not sure what you mean.

On top of their employer's plan, could they also make a donation to Social Security?

The scenario that was described to me by the retired teacher was, with respect to her part time jobs and work before and after teaching where she has to pay into Social Security.

I think the thing is that because she has Teacher Retirement, she couldn't collect anything from Social Security even though she paid into it. Or, maybe SS was a reduced amount because she had other income.

Let's sue the US Govt and get our money back!!!

HollywoodBQ said:

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I'd rather we spend $200B on old people in the USA than give $200B to Ukraine or Israel or whomever else we think needs our money more than we do.

---

I agree with you.

But many "free market" folks on this board think that spending money on old American people is a waste since "they didn't earn it". The same folks are okay with a scummy US CEO laying off 30% of his company so that he can make his $10 Million bonus. If you speak against it, you are labeled as "jealous". Such is the brainwashing done by corporations for decades.

More details, if you REALLY wnt to know.

For windfall - one of the rules changed by this, there was a sliding window.

Unless you have 20 years of SS credits, no Social Security for you.
If you had 30 years of SS credits, full benefits (as detemined by your credits and income).

Between 20 and 30 years, sliding (10% per year).

As someone who split time between teaching (HS/Uni) it meant with 27 years of SS credits I was going to only get 70% of the check I would have received if I did not get my education pensions.

I had a way this year and next to generate 2 more years of credits, but it would have cost me about $7,000 (paying income and SS taxes on the approximate $16K of income). To get 4 quarters of credits (one year) you only need income of about $8K.

Now I don't have to do this. Yay! Not sure if this is fairer - I could argue both ways. But, I do think for those idiots who go from private industry into teaching after 20 years of paying into SS, it probably is the right thing to do.

infinity ag said:

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HollywoodBQ said:

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I'd rather we spend $200B on old people in the USA than give $200B to Ukraine or Israel or whomever else we think needs our money more than we do.

---

I agree with you.

But many "free market" folks on this board think that spending money on old American people is a waste since "they didn't earn it". The same folks are okay with a scummy US CEO laying off 30% of his company so that he can make his $10 Million bonus. If you speak against it, you are labeled as "jealous". Such is the brainwashing done by corporations for decades.

---

That is correct. Laissez faire capitalism.

You live or die by the strength of yours hands and the sweat of your brow.

They should put a line on your tax return where you can donate if you want to help the old people. Let's see how that turns out.

Over_ed said:

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More details, if you REALLY wnt to know.

For windfall - one of the rules changed by this, there was a sliding window.

Unless you have 20 years of SS credits, no Social Security for you.
If you had 30 years of SS credits, full benefits (as detemined by your credits and income).

Between 20 and 30 years, sliding (10% per year).

As someone who split time between teaching (HS/Uni) it meant with 27 years of SS credits I was going to only get 70% of the check I would have received if I did not get my education pensions.

I had a way this year and next to generate 2 more years of credits, but it would have cost me about $7,000 (paying income and SS taxes on the approximate $16K of income). To get 4 quarters of credits (one year) you only need income of about $8K.

Now I don't have to do this. Yay! Not sure if this is fairer - I could argue both ways. But, I do think for those idiots who go from private industry into teaching after 20 years of paying into SS, it probably is the right thing to do.

---

How could you argue it both ways? You think it is logical for people to receive half of the benefit they paid for?

Tea Party said:

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Yukon Cornelius said:

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SS should be illegal. Shut it all down.

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Illegal, no.

Voluntary, absolutely.

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Ponzi schemes, even when participation is voluntary, are still illegal.

See Madoff, Bernie.

I could argue that some of the Federal employees' plans are so generous that it is unfair to also give them SS; it does result in "double dipping" which the WEP was designed to eliminate.

Not a hill I would want to die on. but I can see the argument. But more diificult argument to make if the "windfall" ix comingg from state or local dollars, imo.

infinity ag said:

---

HollywoodBQ said:

---

I'd rather we spend $200B on old people in the USA than give $200B to Ukraine or Israel or whomever else we think needs our money more than we do.

---

I agree with you.

But many "free market" folks on this board think that spending money on old American people is a waste since "they didn't earn it". The same folks are okay with a scummy US CEO laying off 30% of his company so that he can make his $10 Million bonus. If you speak against it, you are labeled as "jealous". Such is the brainwashing done by corporations for decades.

---

One thing has absolutely nothing to do with the others.


You are jealous. You prove here all the time.

DallasAg 94 said:

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Same.

Just remember it is an "Insurance" Fund... not a retirement vehicle. It was designed to help poor people after they could no longer work and was never designed for people to use.

It is used as a way to hand out free money to certain voters.

It will be means tested and if you have a 401k... good luck you privileged oppressor.

Both my parents died before retirement and EVERYTHING pay paid in went to "The House."

Amazing that you can pay into SS for 40+ years... including employee match...and if you die before reaching old age... lose it ALL.

---

Like all entitlement programs once they're in place they ain't going anywhere. The dems know this i.e. obamacare.

ts5641 said:

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Like all entitlement programs once they're in place they ain't going anywhere. The dems know this i.e. obamacare.

---

On a related note, I worked and raised a family in Denmark for two years as a private citizen. What I heard over and over from native Danes: "I hate the socialism but now that I've paid so much into it for so many years, I'd never support its elimination if I didn't get my contributions back."

To me…..the worst aspect of socialism is that once implemented it is near impossible to reverse unless you have a total collapse of your financial system.

HarleySpoon said:

---

ts5641 said:

---

Like all entitlement programs once they're in place they ain't going anywhere. The dems know this i.e. obamacare.

---

On a related note, I worked and raised a family in Denmark for two years as a private citizen. What I heard over and over from native Danes: "I hate the socialism but now that I've paid so much into it for so many years, I'd never support its elimination if I didn't get my contributions back."

To me…..the worst aspect of socialism is that once implemented it is near impossible to reverse unless you have a total collapse of your financial system.

---

I would happily give up the $300k I've already paid in if I could opt out today. If I could put what I currently pay in SS into the market for my 15 or 20 years remaining in the workforce, it would net me over $1.5 mil.

No brainer decision and I'm 50. It is also a no brainer for those younger than me.

Tom Fox said:

---

HarleySpoon said:

---

ts5641 said:

---

Like all entitlement programs once they're in place they ain't going anywhere. The dems know this i.e. obamacare.

---

On a related note, I worked and raised a family in Denmark for two years as a private citizen. What I heard over and over from native Danes: "I hate the socialism but now that I've paid so much into it for so many years, I'd never support its elimination if I didn't get my contributions back."

To me…..the worst aspect of socialism is that once implemented it is near impossible to reverse unless you have a total collapse of your financial system.

---

I would happily give up the $300k I've already paid in if I could opt out today. If I could put what I currently pay in SS into the market for my 15 or 20 years remaining in the workforce, it would net me over $1.5 mil.

No brainer decision and I'm 50. It is also a no brainer for those younger than me.

---

I would have too…..at age 50.

Bocephus said:

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This was the Social Security Fairness Act. It means that millions of Americans who paid into social security for decades will receive their full benefit rather than having the government basically embezzle half of it.

Before this bill passed, police, fire, teachers paid into social security for the required amount of time, but received half their benefit bc they received a pension. Now they will receive the full amount.

Where this really affects people is when the pensioner passes away and their spouse gets half the pension, their social security is cut in half. You literally have people being punished for working.

---

Came here to post this. If my dad were to die, my mom would not get his SS benefit that he paid into his whole life because she was a teacher. Makes no sense. She also worked for a private school for 15 years in addition to several side jobs in addition to her public school job. Paid into SS for those. She is only allowed half of an SS check for that work. Makes zero sense.

Retired teachers are living in poverty because they can't get the spousal benefit after their spouses die and Vice versa.

Also minimal COLA for teacher pensions in Texas. Teachers who retired 20+ years ago are screwed with this inflation.

Tom Fox said:

---

HarleySpoon said:

---

ts5641 said:

---

Like all entitlement programs once they're in place they ain't going anywhere. The dems know this i.e. obamacare.

---

On a related note, I worked and raised a family in Denmark for two years as a private citizen. What I heard over and over from native Danes: "I hate the socialism but now that I've paid so much into it for so many years, I'd never support its elimination if I didn't get my contributions back."

To me…..the worst aspect of socialism is that once implemented it is near impossible to reverse unless you have a total collapse of your financial system.

---

I would happily give up the $300k I've already paid in if I could opt out today. If I could put what I currently pay in SS into the market for my 15 or 20 years remaining in the workforce, it would net me over $1.5 mil.

No brainer decision and I'm 50. It is also a no brainer for those younger than me.

---

Before I turned 50, I was in complete agreement. But as I get older and closer to retirement, and they continue to take money from me, I am going to require a tit for tat. I'll give up everything I have paid in SS, but the government has to take their meathooks out of all of my capital gains for the rest of my life.

HarleySpoon said:

---

ts5641 said:

---

Like all entitlement programs once they're in place they ain't going anywhere. The dems know this i.e. obamacare.

---

On a related note, I worked and raised a family in Denmark for two years as a private citizen. What I heard over and over from native Danes: "I hate the socialism but now that I've paid so much into it for so many years, I'd never support its elimination if I didn't get my contributions back."

To me…..the worst aspect of socialism is that once implemented it is near impossible to reverse unless you have a total collapse of your financial system.

---

Good post.

lb3 said:

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Hint: It's already insolvent. It has been paying out more than it brings in for years. There is no lock box and not trust fund.

---

I was always furious when my parents talked about the lock box. Not at them, but at the government for lying to them. When I said I'll never see a dime of SS my parents thought I was crazy. That's what happens when you are raised on 3 channels and PBS. It's easy to lie to Americans with the propaganda the media was ordered to spill out.

Don't forget the Democrats also raided Medicare to pay for EV tax credits and their climate change fantasies.

Stinky T said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

HarleySpoon said:

---

ts5641 said:

---

Like all entitlement programs once they're in place they ain't going anywhere. The dems know this i.e. obamacare.

---

On a related note, I worked and raised a family in Denmark for two years as a private citizen. What I heard over and over from native Danes: "I hate the socialism but now that I've paid so much into it for so many years, I'd never support its elimination if I didn't get my contributions back."

To me…..the worst aspect of socialism is that once implemented it is near impossible to reverse unless you have a total collapse of your financial system.

---

I would happily give up the $300k I've already paid in if I could opt out today. If I could put what I currently pay in SS into the market for my 15 or 20 years remaining in the workforce, it would net me over $1.5 mil.

No brainer decision and I'm 50. It is also a no brainer for those younger than me.

---

Before I turned 50, I was in complete agreement. But as I get older and closer to retirement, and they continue to take money from me, I am going to require a tit for tat. I'll give up everything I have paid in SS, but the government has to take their meathooks out of all of my capital gains for the rest of my life.

---

That would be sweet too. But I'll settle for us just going our separate ways. Let me keep my own damn money.

Tom Fox said:

---

Stinky T said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

HarleySpoon said:

---

ts5641 said:

---

Like all entitlement programs once they're in place they ain't going anywhere. The dems know this i.e. obamacare.

---

On a related note, I worked and raised a family in Denmark for two years as a private citizen. What I heard over and over from native Danes: "I hate the socialism but now that I've paid so much into it for so many years, I'd never support its elimination if I didn't get my contributions back."

To me…..the worst aspect of socialism is that once implemented it is near impossible to reverse unless you have a total collapse of your financial system.

---

I would happily give up the $300k I've already paid in if I could opt out today. If I could put what I currently pay in SS into the market for my 15 or 20 years remaining in the workforce, it would net me over $1.5 mil.

No brainer decision and I'm 50. It is also a no brainer for those younger than me.

---

Before I turned 50, I was in complete agreement. But as I get older and closer to retirement, and they continue to take money from me, I am going to require a tit for tat. I'll give up everything I have paid in SS, but the government has to take their meathooks out of all of my capital gains for the rest of my life.

---

That would be sweet too. But I'll settle for us just going our separate ways. Let me keep my own damn money.

---

I cannot imagine working until I was 70. I guess if you enjoy what you're doing

Bocephus said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

Stinky T said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

HarleySpoon said:

---

ts5641 said:

---

Like all entitlement programs once they're in place they ain't going anywhere. The dems know this i.e. obamacare.

---

On a related note, I worked and raised a family in Denmark for two years as a private citizen. What I heard over and over from native Danes: "I hate the socialism but now that I've paid so much into it for so many years, I'd never support its elimination if I didn't get my contributions back."

To me…..the worst aspect of socialism is that once implemented it is near impossible to reverse unless you have a total collapse of your financial system.

---

I would happily give up the $300k I've already paid in if I could opt out today. If I could put what I currently pay in SS into the market for my 15 or 20 years remaining in the workforce, it would net me over $1.5 mil.

No brainer decision and I'm 50. It is also a no brainer for those younger than me.

---

Before I turned 50, I was in complete agreement. But as I get older and closer to retirement, and they continue to take money from me, I am going to require a tit for tat. I'll give up everything I have paid in SS, but the government has to take their meathooks out of all of my capital gains for the rest of my life.

---

That would be sweet too. But I'll settle for us just going our separate ways. Let me keep my own damn money.

---

I cannot imagine working until I was 70. I guess if you enjoy what you're doing

---

I started my own law firm at 44. Now, I make close to 7 figures and I'm the boss.

I don't really want to work another 20, but with 30% income tax, I need those years to get rich.

Bocephus said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

Stinky T said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

HarleySpoon said:

---

ts5641 said:

---

Like all entitlement programs once they're in place they ain't going anywhere. The dems know this i.e. obamacare.

---

On a related note, I worked and raised a family in Denmark for two years as a private citizen. What I heard over and over from native Danes: "I hate the socialism but now that I've paid so much into it for so many years, I'd never support its elimination if I didn't get my contributions back."

To me…..the worst aspect of socialism is that once implemented it is near impossible to reverse unless you have a total collapse of your financial system.

---

I would happily give up the $300k I've already paid in if I could opt out today. If I could put what I currently pay in SS into the market for my 15 or 20 years remaining in the workforce, it would net me over $1.5 mil.

No brainer decision and I'm 50. It is also a no brainer for those younger than me.

---

Before I turned 50, I was in complete agreement. But as I get older and closer to retirement, and they continue to take money from me, I am going to require a tit for tat. I'll give up everything I have paid in SS, but the government has to take their meathooks out of all of my capital gains for the rest of my life.

---

That would be sweet too. But I'll settle for us just going our separate ways. Let me keep my own damn money.

---

I cannot imagine working until I was 70. I guess if you enjoy what you're doing

---

Never understood it and it happens a lot with CPAs and attorneys. When I sold my firm, I was the next to youngest CPA in our expanded area, sold to the youngest (she is 5 years younger than me). The other CPAs are 75 to 80 years old or so. Most of the attorneys are over 75. Smallish town so I know a good bit about all but a few. Most ain't hurting for money

But they can't seem to turn it off, work that is. I think some of them would have an issue with their self-worth or something if they no longer worked. Maybe they like work, who knows. Strange thing to like, especially when you are running out of pages on the calendar. Exchanging their remaining time for a bigger pile of cash they will never spend anyway.

Bocephus said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

Stinky T said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

HarleySpoon said:

---

ts5641 said:

---

Like all entitlement programs once they're in place they ain't going anywhere. The dems know this i.e. obamacare.

---

On a related note, I worked and raised a family in Denmark for two years as a private citizen. What I heard over and over from native Danes: "I hate the socialism but now that I've paid so much into it for so many years, I'd never support its elimination if I didn't get my contributions back."

To me…..the worst aspect of socialism is that once implemented it is near impossible to reverse unless you have a total collapse of your financial system.

---

I would happily give up the $300k I've already paid in if I could opt out today. If I could put what I currently pay in SS into the market for my 15 or 20 years remaining in the workforce, it would net me over $1.5 mil.

No brainer decision and I'm 50. It is also a no brainer for those younger than me.

---

Before I turned 50, I was in complete agreement. But as I get older and closer to retirement, and they continue to take money from me, I am going to require a tit for tat. I'll give up everything I have paid in SS, but the government has to take their meathooks out of all of my capital gains for the rest of my life.

---

That would be sweet too. But I'll settle for us just going our separate ways. Let me keep my own damn money.

---

I cannot imagine working until I was 70. I guess if you enjoy what you're doing

---

A coworker of mine is planning to work until 70. He is 65 now. He has plenty of money and could retire.

This guy is plagued with health issues already and has been for some time. I told him, man get out now while you are healthy enough to enjoy your retirement. I can't imagine what shape he'll be in in five years.

one safe place said:

---

Bocephus said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

Stinky T said:

---

Tom Fox said:

---

HarleySpoon said:

---

ts5641 said:

---

Like all entitlement programs once they're in place they ain't going anywhere. The dems know this i.e. obamacare.

---

On a related note, I worked and raised a family in Denmark for two years as a private citizen. What I heard over and over from native Danes: "I hate the socialism but now that I've paid so much into it for so many years, I'd never support its elimination if I didn't get my contributions back."

To me…..the worst aspect of socialism is that once implemented it is near impossible to reverse unless you have a total collapse of your financial system.

---

I would happily give up the $300k I've already paid in if I could opt out today. If I could put what I currently pay in SS into the market for my 15 or 20 years remaining in the workforce, it would net me over $1.5 mil.

No brainer decision and I'm 50. It is also a no brainer for those younger than me.

---

Before I turned 50, I was in complete agreement. But as I get older and closer to retirement, and they continue to take money from me, I am going to require a tit for tat. I'll give up everything I have paid in SS, but the government has to take their meathooks out of all of my capital gains for the rest of my life.

---

That would be sweet too. But I'll settle for us just going our separate ways. Let me keep my own damn money.

---

I cannot imagine working until I was 70. I guess if you enjoy what you're doing

---

Never understood it and it happens a lot with CPAs and attorneys. When I sold my firm, I was the next to youngest CPA in our expanded area, sold to the youngest (she is 5 years younger than me). The other CPAs are 75 to 80 years old or so. Most of the attorneys are over 75. Smallish town so I know a good bit about all but a few. Most ain't hurting for money

But they can't seem to turn it off, work that is. I think some of them would have an issue with their self-worth or something if they no longer worked. Maybe they like work, who knows. Strange thing to like, especially when you are running out of pages on the calendar. Exchanging their remaining time for a bigger pile of cash they will never spend anyway.

---

I own a business where I'm basically the Controller/CFO for several businesses in the area. I have a couple of bookkeepers on staff and we use the info gleaned from the numbers to drive growth. I love what I do and could see me working in some capacity til I'm 70 in fact that's what I've told Mrs LOYAL AG. Now I won't work at this pace til then but I can see another 8-10 like this then 6-8 without the bookkeeping staff and basically just consulting for 25ish hours per week. Some of our best friends are long time clients and we've accomplished a lot together so why not keep going? It's been a heck of a ride and right now I can't imagine having to get off.