Does anybody know? I found it strange that every single democrat voted for it. What did they get out of it?

That's the big question. The initial impression it has the spending increases they wanted but not various executive and regulatory pork the original had. But there is really no clear indication yet.

Common sense says something they really like is probably bad, but maybe it is "bad" in a way that is net harmless -- like more money dumped into Ukraine. That is a different level of `bad' then a bunch of censorship agents for example.

The main thing they are hanging their victory hat on is that Trump didn't get his debt ceiling increase. That gives them a tool to help them try and stop tax cuts in the future, theoretically.

UntoldSpirit said:

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The main thing they are hanging their victory hat on is that Trump didn't get his debt ceiling increase. That gives them a tool to help them try and stop tax cuts in the future, theoretically.

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Well, that was a good thing not including the debt ceiling increse regardless if it's a bargaining chip they can use against Trump later. Trump is off is rocker thinking it's a good idea to suspend the debt ceiling or increase it significantly.

Tea Party said:

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UntoldSpirit said:

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The main thing they are hanging their victory hat on is that Trump didn't get his debt ceiling increase. That gives them a tool to help them try and stop tax cuts in the future, theoretically.

---

Well, that was a good thing not including the debt ceiling increse regardless if it's a bargaining chip they can use against Trump later. Trump is off is rocker thinking it's a good idea to suspend the debt ceiling or increase it significantly.

---

Trump like deficit spending

samurai_science said:

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Tea Party said:

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UntoldSpirit said:

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The main thing they are hanging their victory hat on is that Trump didn't get his debt ceiling increase. That gives them a tool to help them try and stop tax cuts in the future, theoretically.

---

Well, that was a good thing not including the debt ceiling increse regardless if it's a bargaining chip they can use against Trump later. Trump is off is rocker thinking it's a good idea to suspend the debt ceiling or increase it significantly.

---

Trump like deficit spending

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Yes, and your point? Do you want Congress to bend to his will and give him the debt ceiling increase?

samurai_science said:

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Tea Party said:

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UntoldSpirit said:

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The main thing they are hanging their victory hat on is that Trump didn't get his debt ceiling increase. That gives them a tool to help them try and stop tax cuts in the future, theoretically.

---

Well, that was a good thing not including the debt ceiling increse regardless if it's a bargaining chip they can use against Trump later. Trump is off is rocker thinking it's a good idea to suspend the debt ceiling or increase it significantly.

---

Trump like deficit spending

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Trump will sign whatever spending bill is put in front of him whether it will contribute to a surplus or shortage or is deficit neutral.

Tea Party said:

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samurai_science said:

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Tea Party said:

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UntoldSpirit said:

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The main thing they are hanging their victory hat on is that Trump didn't get his debt ceiling increase. That gives them a tool to help them try and stop tax cuts in the future, theoretically.

---

Well, that was a good thing not including the debt ceiling increse regardless if it's a bargaining chip they can use against Trump later. Trump is off is rocker thinking it's a good idea to suspend the debt ceiling or increase it significantly.

---

Trump like deficit spending

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Yes, and your point? Do you want Congress to bend to his will and give him the debt ceiling increase?

---

By congressional accounting, tax cuts count as spending. If Trump wants to make his tax cuts permanent, he either needs to raise the debt ceiling or cut an equivalent amount of spending.

I would see the spending cuts as an absolute win, personally. But that might be a tough road to hoe.

The bill went from 1500 pages to 115 and nobody still read it

Dan Scott said:

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The bill went from 1500 pages to 115 and nobody still read it

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We don't know that. We just haven't been told. From the sound of it,, Elon did.

Tea Party said:

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samurai_science said:

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Tea Party said:

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UntoldSpirit said:

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The main thing they are hanging their victory hat on is that Trump didn't get his debt ceiling increase. That gives them a tool to help them try and stop tax cuts in the future, theoretically.

---

Well, that was a good thing not including the debt ceiling increse regardless if it's a bargaining chip they can use against Trump later. Trump is off is rocker thinking it's a good idea to suspend the debt ceiling or increase it significantly.

---

Trump like deficit spending

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Yes, and your point? Do you want Congress to bend to his will and give him the debt ceiling increase?

---

Without a debt ceiling increase, Trump won't be able to keep the previous tax cuts in place or do no-tax-on- tips or no tax on social security or more tax cuts to stimulate the economy. They count tax cuts as increased debt per the debt ceiling rules. He's going to have to get the debt ceiling increased so that the tax cuts can allow the economy to grow, which will ultimately reduce the deficit. Otherwise, he is going to break a lot of promises and the economy is going to be sluggish, just making the deficit and debt worse.

It is ironic that the debt ceiling needs to be increased to allow the deficit to be decreased, but just like most things in Washington, the rules and law are twisted. When Trump lobbies for it later, he is going to be criticized by those that don't get it. He wanted to avoid that. Now he is going to have to deal with it and explain it to people. It will be tough to get some people to understand and of course, it will be interesting to see how democrats play this game where they would normally be on the side of increasing the ceiling.

The only thing that can save this country economically is incredible economic growth while holding down spending increases. That's only going to occur with tax cuts, business incentives, regulation reduction, and more government efficiency. Gotta have debt ceiling increase in the short term to get part of that due to how they treat tax cuts as spending increases.

UntoldSpirit said:

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Tea Party said:

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samurai_science said:

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Tea Party said:

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UntoldSpirit said:

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The main thing they are hanging their victory hat on is that Trump didn't get his debt ceiling increase. That gives them a tool to help them try and stop tax cuts in the future, theoretically.

---

Well, that was a good thing not including the debt ceiling increse regardless if it's a bargaining chip they can use against Trump later. Trump is off is rocker thinking it's a good idea to suspend the debt ceiling or increase it significantly.

---

Trump like deficit spending

---

Yes, and your point? Do you want Congress to bend to his will and give him the debt ceiling increase?

---

Without a debt ceiling increase, Trump won't be able to keep the previous tax cuts in place or do no-tax-on- tips or no tax on social security or more tax cuts to stimulate the economy. They count tax cuts as increased debt per the debt ceiling rules. He's going to have to get the debt ceiling increased so that the tax cuts can allow the economy to grow, which will ultimately reduce the deficit. Otherwise, he is going to break a lot of promises and the economy is going to be sluggish, just making the deficit and debt worse.

It is ironic that the debt ceiling needs to be increased to allow the deficit to be decreased, but just like most things in Washington, the rules and law are twisted. When Trump lobbies for it later, he is going to be criticized by those that don't get it. He wanted to avoid that. Now he is going to have to deal with it and explain it to people. It will be tough to get some people to understand and of course, it will be interesting to see how democrats play this game where they would normally be on the side of increasing the ceiling.

The only thing that can save this country economically is incredible economic growth while holding down spending increases. That's only going to occur with tax cuts, business incentives, regulation reduction, and more government efficiency. Gotta have debt ceiling increase in the short term to get part of that due to how they treat tax cuts as spending increases.

---

THAT. And as believe the debt ceiling isn't even originally in the Constitution, it may have to be just ignored. Too soon to borrow trouble. Let's see after Jan 20 what the tone and direction is. No one realizes nothing is different yet. (Except for foreign relations -- that's already showing improvement because the most responsive to change in the WH).

UntoldSpirit said:

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Tea Party said:

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samurai_science said:

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Tea Party said:

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UntoldSpirit said:

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The main thing they are hanging their victory hat on is that Trump didn't get his debt ceiling increase. That gives them a tool to help them try and stop tax cuts in the future, theoretically.

---

Well, that was a good thing not including the debt ceiling increse regardless if it's a bargaining chip they can use against Trump later. Trump is off is rocker thinking it's a good idea to suspend the debt ceiling or increase it significantly.

---

Trump like deficit spending

---

Yes, and your point? Do you want Congress to bend to his will and give him the debt ceiling increase?

---

Without a debt ceiling increase, Trump won't be able to keep the previous tax cuts in place or do no-tax-on- tips or no tax on social security or more tax cuts to stimulate the economy. They count tax cuts as increased debt per the debt ceiling rules. He's going to have to get the debt ceiling increased so that the tax cuts can allow the economy to grow, which will ultimately reduce the deficit. Otherwise, he is going to break a lot of promises and the economy is going to be sluggish, just making the deficit and debt worse.

It is ironic that the debt ceiling needs to be increased to allow the deficit to be decreased, but just like most things in Washington, the rules and law are twisted. When Trump lobbies for it later, he is going to be criticized by those that don't get it. He wanted to avoid that. Now he is going to have to deal with it and explain it to people. It will be tough to get some people to understand and of course, it will be interesting to see how democrats play this game where they would normally be on the side of increasing the ceiling.

The only thing that can save this country economically is incredible economic growth while holding down spending increases. That's only going to occur with tax cuts, business incentives, regulation reduction, and more government efficiency. Gotta have debt ceiling increase in the short term to get part of that due to how they treat tax cuts as spending increases.

---

This is the problem with Republican leadership, specifically the freedom caucus. They are so damn black and white, while politics are grey as hell. While their fiscal ideology is correct, it's not always practical. Unfortunately, sometimes money has to be spent. Sometimes we have to pass a compromise to begin to make progress against liberal idiocy. A small win is still a win. They want every bill to be a home run, so the Republican party constantly strikes out.

We have to completely turn the runaway train around that is our current government amd economy before we can even begin to take a staunch fiscal approach to cut spending. By not getting the debt ceiling done now, he's going to have to waste time getting it done early next year instead of passing meaningful legislation. The Democrats will demand concessions out of greed, while the freedom caucus will refuse to vote yes without spending cuts, which have a 0% chance of happening with our current narrow majority in the House.

If the freedom caucus would fall in line, then we could pass an extension to dept ceiling without a ton of pork to buy votes. Instead, Republicans will have to capitulate to the Dems demands and we will end up with another extremely bloated spending bill that Trump will be forced to sign.

All because the idiot fundamentalists in our party lack logic or vision.

BTKAG97 said:

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Stmichael said:

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Tea Party said:

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samurai_science said:

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Tea Party said:

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UntoldSpirit said:

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The main thing they are hanging their victory hat on is that Trump didn't get his debt ceiling increase. That gives them a tool to help them try and stop tax cuts in the future, theoretically.

---

Well, that was a good thing not including the debt ceiling increse regardless if it's a bargaining chip they can use against Trump later. Trump is off is rocker thinking it's a good idea to suspend the debt ceiling or increase it significantly.

---

Trump like deficit spending

---

Yes, and your point? Do you want Congress to bend to his will and give him the debt ceiling increase?

---

By congressional accounting, tax cuts count as spending. If Trump wants to make his tax cuts permanent, he either needs to raise the debt ceiling or cut an equivalent amount of spending.

I would see the spending cuts as an absolute win, personally. But that might be a tough road to hoe.

---

Need to abolish the CBO and Congressional "Pseudo-Math" Accounting.

---

Absolutely that. The idea that `tax cuts count as spending' is inherently a Progressive notion and should not be accepted by a Hill that is Republican in both houses. It is fundamentally contrary to the idea that the citizen's money is his first; not the government's. It gets its money second-hand, by revenue raising.

Dan Scott said:

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The bill went from 1500 pages to 115 and nobody still read it

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This bill was a win for the Republicans... Not a decisive win, perhaps even a pyrrhic win, but a win none the less. The Dems were forced to bend a knee.. Not take a knee, maybe a bow....
It is a start and Trump is not even in office as of today.

If all democrats agreed it's not good.

UntoldSpirit said:

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Tea Party said:

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samurai_science said:

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Tea Party said:

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UntoldSpirit said:

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The main thing they are hanging their victory hat on is that Trump didn't get his debt ceiling increase. That gives them a tool to help them try and stop tax cuts in the future, theoretically.

---

Well, that was a good thing not including the debt ceiling increse regardless if it's a bargaining chip they can use against Trump later. Trump is off is rocker thinking it's a good idea to suspend the debt ceiling or increase it significantly.

---

Trump like deficit spending

---

Yes, and your point? Do you want Congress to bend to his will and give him the debt ceiling increase?

---

Without a debt ceiling increase, Trump won't be able to keep the previous tax cuts in place or do no-tax-on- tips or no tax on social security or more tax cuts to stimulate the economy. They count tax cuts as increased debt per the debt ceiling rules. He's going to have to get the debt ceiling increased so that the tax cuts can allow the economy to grow, which will ultimately reduce the deficit. Otherwise, he is going to break a lot of promises and the economy is going to be sluggish, just making the deficit and debt worse.

It is ironic that the debt ceiling needs to be increased to allow the deficit to be decreased, but just like most things in Washington, the rules and law are twisted. When Trump lobbies for it later, he is going to be criticized by those that don't get it. He wanted to avoid that. Now he is going to have to deal with it and explain it to people. It will be tough to get some people to understand and of course, it will be interesting to see how democrats play this game where they would normally be on the side of increasing the ceiling.

The only thing that can save this country economically is incredible economic growth while holding down spending increases. That's only going to occur with tax cuts, business incentives, regulation reduction, and more government efficiency. Gotta have debt ceiling increase in the short term to get part of that due to how they treat tax cuts as spending increases.

---

The false assumption in all this is spending must stay the same at the same time taxes are cut.

Cut spending then cut taxes. You don't have to cut taxes first then cut spending, which requires the debt ceiling to be increased. That is inefficient and requires us to trust the government to not abuse the debt ceiling increase.

Trump had his tax cuts and his economy the first three years of his first term. He also reduced regulations. There was no reduction in deficits, they grew each year he was in office. He added $5 trillion to the debt before COVID.

Can you explain how he's going to do what you claim this time without adding more since we are now paying over $1 trillion on the debt. During his first term it was like $300 billion.

It's nothing but wishcasting and spin imo.

titan said:

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BTKAG97 said:

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Stmichael said:

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Tea Party said:

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samurai_science said:

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Tea Party said:

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UntoldSpirit said:

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The main thing they are hanging their victory hat on is that Trump didn't get his debt ceiling increase. That gives them a tool to help them try and stop tax cuts in the future, theoretically.

---

Well, that was a good thing not including the debt ceiling increse regardless if it's a bargaining chip they can use against Trump later. Trump is off is rocker thinking it's a good idea to suspend the debt ceiling or increase it significantly.

---

Trump like deficit spending

---

Yes, and your point? Do you want Congress to bend to his will and give him the debt ceiling increase?

---

By congressional accounting, tax cuts count as spending. If Trump wants to make his tax cuts permanent, he either needs to raise the debt ceiling or cut an equivalent amount of spending.

I would see the spending cuts as an absolute win, personally. But that might be a tough road to hoe.

---

Need to abolish the CBO and Congressional "Pseudo-Math" Accounting.

---

Absolutely that. The idea that `tax cuts count as spending' is inherently a Progressive notion and should not be accepted by a Hill that is Republican in both houses. It is fundamentally contrary to the idea that the citizen's money is his first; not the government's. It gets its money second-hand, by revenue raising.

---

Agree the CBO is pointless. Let's also talk about the fact that when they project numbers they stop at 10 years....as if math and life stop at 10 years. I assume they still do this.

In addition, if the CBO says it's bad then it's probably 5-10x worse than that. Example: they admitted the "Inflation Reduction Act" will actually increase inflation counter to Democrat lies. Will anyone ever go back and assess that? No.

"What pork was left in the CR that passed the house?"

If you look closely enough, you will probably find the entire pig.

titan said:

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BTKAG97 said:

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Stmichael said:

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Tea Party said:

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samurai_science said:

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Tea Party said:

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UntoldSpirit said:

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The main thing they are hanging their victory hat on is that Trump didn't get his debt ceiling increase. That gives them a tool to help them try and stop tax cuts in the future, theoretically.

---

Well, that was a good thing not including the debt ceiling increse regardless if it's a bargaining chip they can use against Trump later. Trump is off is rocker thinking it's a good idea to suspend the debt ceiling or increase it significantly.

---

Trump like deficit spending

---

Yes, and your point? Do you want Congress to bend to his will and give him the debt ceiling increase?

---

By congressional accounting, tax cuts count as spending. If Trump wants to make his tax cuts permanent, he either needs to raise the debt ceiling or cut an equivalent amount of spending.

I would see the spending cuts as an absolute win, personally. But that might be a tough road to hoe.

---

Need to abolish the CBO and Congressional "Pseudo-Math" Accounting.

---

Absolutely that. The idea that `tax cuts count as spending' is inherently a Progressive notion and should not be accepted by a Hill that is Republican in both houses. It is fundamentally contrary to the idea that the citizen's money is his first; not the government's. It gets its money second-hand, by revenue raising.

---

WRONG.

Go read milton friedman. Tax cuts without spending cuts is a sneaky way of taxing you through inflation, when it looks like you're getting a cut.

Why can't they debt ceiling be ignored just like the budget is?

I'm guessing all of it.

Funky Winkerbean said:

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Why can't they debt ceiling be ignored just like the budget is?

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It would remove the final remaining diversionary tactic that our government has to make it look like they care about it.

If we get rid of it, then we are all officially acknowledging nothing can actually be done about the debt.

IOW, it would be acknowledging that the American experiment is over without extreme measures which no one will do.

It's theater.