pardon forthcoming perhaps?

News articles like this always do a terrible job of explaining what's actually happening. Is this a federal appeal of the state case or is this an appeal of the federal case?

AtticusMatlock said:

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News articles like this always do a terrible job of explaining what's actually happening. Is this a federal appeal of the state case or is this an appeal of the federal case?

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It's a collateral attack on the federal case. You can't appeal a state conviction in federal court, generally speaking.

Ineffective assistance of counsel is an exceptionally tough thing to win on.

Not claiming it wasn't a show trial/railroading etc, just that it's exceptionally difficult to win on that. It's something like 'counsel has to fall under an objective standard of reasonableness and but for their unprofessional errors the verdict would have been different.' Again outside of something like a basic fact matter/DNA evidence that is clearly exonerating I just don't think the win rate is much above something like 2 or 3 percent (too lazy to look any of this up). The burden of proof is just tough.

nortex97 said:

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Not claiming it wasn't a show trial/railroading etc, just that it's exceptionally difficult to win on that. It's something like 'counsel has to fall under an objective standard of reasonableness and but for their unprofessional errors the verdict would have been different.' Again outside of something like a basic fact matter/DNA evidence that is clearly exonerating I just don't think the win rate is much above something like 2 or 3 percent (too lazy to look any of this up). The burden of proof is just tough.

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Oh I agree it is tough to prove and be successful. My point was that the additional complicating factors fr any counsel to prepare and mount a defense with such a biased courtroom.

So I guess the ineffectiveness here was more having an ineffective judge maintainng control of his courtroom. The judge and jury were being intimidated.

Not trying to go all full-on BMX here but I don't think the judge or jury matter in the appeal. Professional error(s) have to be shown by defense counsel that were determinative to the outcome. Sorry, not trying to nitpick this, just want folks to not be surprised when this fails.

W said:

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pardon forthcoming perhaps?

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That would be a huge mistake politically. It would become a massive distraction that would blunt much of the progress that Trump is making. Chauvin needs to keep working the appeals but Trump should not pardon him. It would be a much stronger statement for him to be released on appeal and exonerated as well.

nortex97 said:

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Not trying to go all full-on BMX here but I don't think the judge or jury matter in the appeal. Professional error(s) have to be shown by defense counsel that were determinative to the outcome. Sorry, not trying to nitpick this, just want folks to not be surprised when this fails.

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Agree that it will be difficult. Another article read contained additional information about the ineffective advice of counsel idea - sounds plausible I think

Quote:

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In a November 2023 motion to vacate the federal sentence, Chauvin said he wouldn't have entered a guilty plea if he knew about the theories of Kansas pathologist Dr. William Schaetzel regarding Floyd's cause of death. The doctor believes Floyd died from a high level of catecholamines neurohormones that are triggered in stress responses or takotsubo cardiomyopathy a heart condition that develops in response to severe emotional or physical distress.

Chauvin blames his former lawyer for providing ineffective counsel by failing to inform him about Schaetzel's theory and choosing not to test samples of Floyd's heart. The judge found the argument compelling enough to grant the motion.

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Judge Allows Derek Chauvin's Legal Team to Inspect George Floyd's Heart to Test Alternative Theory

nortex97 said:

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Not trying to go all full-on BMX here but I don't think the judge or jury matter in the appeal. Professional error(s) have to be shown by defense counsel that were determinative to the outcome. Sorry, not trying to nitpick this, just want folks to not be surprised when this fails.

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Not really arguing the point. It took multiple appeals on the Sam Shepard case, for instance. How F. Lee Bailey came to fame.

Further as BLM, Antifa and Defund the Police get exposed and fall out of favor the climate is changing. And Chauvin himself becomes less toxic to take on as a client, who knows?

I just remember how much a verbal beating I took at the time of Floyd's death and then the autopsy and other official reports coming out indicating to me that the evidence did not back up that viral video. The video gave a different context as to what people (some even to this day) believe Floyd's cause of death to have been due to Chauvin's knee.

It was not. And that is what this court order is addressing. Allowing defense experts to test remaining samples of tissues and fluids, and the substances chemicals for which they are looking go directly to cause of death, in my view. (Hint: not fentanyl level.)

This guy gets it.

It will now boil down to.... Can you kill a (semi) dead man?

aggie93 said:

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W said:

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pardon forthcoming perhaps?

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That would be a huge mistake politically. It would become a massive distraction that would blunt much of the progress that Trump is making. Chauvin needs to keep working the appeals but Trump should not pardon him. It would be a much stronger statement for him to be released on appeal and exonerated as well.

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Good points, but if I'm being perfectly honest, there is a small part of me who wants trump to do it.

El Gallo Blanco said:

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aggie93 said:

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W said:

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pardon forthcoming perhaps?

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That would be a huge mistake politically. It would become a massive distraction that would blunt much of the progress that Trump is making. Chauvin needs to keep working the appeals but Trump should not pardon him. It would be a much stronger statement for him to be released on appeal and exonerated as well.

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Good points, but if I'm being perfectly honest, there is a small part of me who wants trump to do it.

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Oh sure, but the cost would be immense and it could risk everything. That's the kind of move that could completely disrupt his agenda. It's a perfect example of the type of discipline and choices Trump will need to make. Maybe he can look at this later but even thinking about it now is a terrible idea.

aggie93 said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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aggie93 said:

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W said:

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pardon forthcoming perhaps?

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That would be a huge mistake politically. It would become a massive distraction that would blunt much of the progress that Trump is making. Chauvin needs to keep working the appeals but Trump should not pardon him. It would be a much stronger statement for him to be released on appeal and exonerated as well.

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Good points, but if I'm being perfectly honest, there is a small part of me who wants trump to do it.

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Oh sure, but the cost would be immense and it could risk everything. That's the kind of move that could completely disrupt his agenda. It's a perfect example of the type of discipline and choices Trump will need to make. Maybe he can look at this later but even thinking about it now is a terrible idea.

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Agreed, would be a monumental unforced error.

El Gallo Blanco said:

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aggie93 said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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aggie93 said:

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W said:

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pardon forthcoming perhaps?

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That would be a huge mistake politically. It would become a massive distraction that would blunt much of the progress that Trump is making. Chauvin needs to keep working the appeals but Trump should not pardon him. It would be a much stronger statement for him to be released on appeal and exonerated as well.

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Good points, but if I'm being perfectly honest, there is a small part of me who wants trump to do it.

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Oh sure, but the cost would be immense and it could risk everything. That's the kind of move that could completely disrupt his agenda. It's a perfect example of the type of discipline and choices Trump will need to make. Maybe he can look at this later but even thinking about it now is a terrible idea.

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Agreed, would be a monumental unforced error.

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Wrong

Trump is a different kind of cat and doesn't give a ratazz about what people will say.

Can Trump pardon a state criminal offense?

fc2112 said:

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Can Trump pardon a state criminal offense?

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No. Only the governor can and in some states even the governor cannot issue a pardon alone without consultation with a state Pardons and Paroles Board.

Current gov of MN is Jazz Hands Walz.

aggiehawg said:

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fc2112 said:

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Can Trump pardon a state criminal offense?

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No. Only the governor can and in some states even the governor cannot issue a pardon alone without consultation with a state Pardons and Paroles Board.

Current gov of MN is Jazz Hands Walz.

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Maybe Jazz Hands will pull his tampon out and pardon him so his wife can open the window and smell the city burning.

What about the violation of his civil rights, railroaded by public fear of the uprising of the haters and people like the governor's wife that encouraged the burning of the city.

Biden's DOJ is trying to get the ruling overturned.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/biden-doj-opposes-court-decision-allowing-derek-chauvin-chance-examine-george-floyds-heart

That is pretty much an admission that DOJ knows Chauvin was railroaded and did not receive a fair trial.

Two of Chauvin's in court prosecutors were rewarded with judgeships. Franks from Ellison's AG office and Black, from private practice.

I find it unfair to discuss Floyd without acknowledging that he's a changed man that's now been drug and alcohol free for nearly 5 years.

Here's why the judge allowed the defense access to those specimens from Floyd.



He was still alive when he got to the hospital. He was not DOA.

Now from watching the trial, I knew the two in the ambulance crew were not seasoned EMTs neither having been on the job for more than a year or two. Further, the attending in the ER was in his residency and not a certified ER doctor. He was supposed to have a supervising ER doctor but did not.

I said repeatedly during the trial, never rely on EMS during a medical emergency in Hennepin County. From dispatch, to EMS response times, even Code 3, sirens and lights, to the attendings in the ER, they are inexperienced and suck.

aggiehawg said:

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Here's why the judge allowed the defense access to those specimens from Floyd.



He was still alive when he got to the hospital. He was not DOA.

Now from watching the trial, I knew the two in the ambulance crew were not seasoned EMTs neither having been on the job for more than a year or two. Further, the attending in the ER was in his residency and not a certified ER doctor. He was supposed to have a supervising ER doctor but did not.

I said repeatedly during the trial, never rely on EMS during a medical emergency in Hennepin County. From dispatch, to EMS response times, even Code 3, sirens and lights, to the attendings in the ER, they are inexperienced and suck.

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Common sense says that if you are defending someone accused of murder as defense council the first thing you would request is the autopsy


Seems like malpractice to not do so?

I'm no lawyer though

Rapier108 said:

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Biden's DOJ is trying to get the ruling overturned.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/biden-doj-opposes-court-decision-allowing-derek-chauvin-chance-examine-george-floyds-heart

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I hope this appeal goes to the Supremes.