Who?mikejones! said:

---

Do all murderers parents need to be held accountable for the deeds of their children?

---

If their children are minors and live in their home, yes.

Again, if we're holding parents accountable for their kids when their kids skip school, we sure AF can hold parents accountable for their kid murdering people.

No Spin Ag said:

---

Who?mikejones! said:

---

Do all murderers parents need to be held accountable for the deeds of their children?

---

If their children are minors and live in their home, yes.

Again, if we're holding parents accountable for their kids when their kids skip school, we sure AF can hold parents accountable for their kid murdering people.

---

What about knives, cars, chainsaws etc? Just guns? If she has stolen mom's Hyundai and mowed over 20 of her classmates at a school parade or gathering, nothing happens to her parents?

Also, should we hold people liable if a friend or attendee at a party steals a gun from a closet and goes on a rampage?

Just seems like a very slippery slope, unless you can show that the parent GAVE them that gun, or that there was some other sort of extreme negligence or something.

No Spin Ag said:

---

They've been looked at ad nauseum. How many decades have we been having these things happen? Three, going on four in a few years.

If nothings been done in over a quarter of a century, I have little faith that it'll be done at all.

---

Longer.

Quote:

---

Tuesday's shooting was the first known teen suicide in a Richardson school. It was the first by a Richardson student since 1988, when student suicides prompted the creation of the crisis intervention program in May that year.

Three Richardson students committed suicide during the first half of 1988. They included a sixth-grader and two sophomores at J. J. Pearce High School. One of the sophomores hanged himself from a tree behind Mohawk Elementary School during a weekend.

In 1985, a 17-year-old Arlington student shot himself in front of four fellow students in the drama classroom at Arlington High School.

Earlier, and outbreak of teen suicides in Plano, where eight youths killed themselves in 1983 and 1984, helped focus national attention on the plight of suicidal teen-agers.

---

https://www.fivehorizons.com/songs/aug99/jeremy_article.shtml

It's a short step from performative suicide to taking others with you in your performative suicide.

If you read her "manifesto", every 5th word is "I". If we're looking for a base cause of this and how to prevent it, we should start there.No kid who is raised with empathy or has any consideration for others does this, and the introspective culture of "how does that make you feel" is obviously a big part of these incidents.

Something that will have to play out is certainly whether the parents will be charged. Clearly even many pro-2nd amendment folks have had enough with irresponsible gun ownership around minors that contributes to incidents like this. And the prosecutions on this have been trending more aggressively.


For example, If there is evidence this girl was clearly fascinated with violence and mommy or daddy bought her a gun, didn't secure the gun, etc,,,,then they might be deservedly looking at manslaughter charges just like some other recent cases.

These situations, the first line of defense is the parents who should be in a position to know their kid's mental states better than anyone. And They certainly better KNOW their kids if there are fire arms in the house. And act responsibly accordingly.

All that said, doesn't mean these parents were glaringly negligent. Well have to see as the facts come out regarding the girl's behavior beforehand and how she got her hands on firearms.

Phatbob said:

---

If you read her "manifesto", every 5th word is "I". If we're looking for a base cause of this and how to prevent it, we should start there.No kid who is raised with empathy or has any consideration for others does this, and the introspective culture of "how does that make you feel" is obviously a big part of these incidents.

---

Is the supposed manifesto posted on this thread?

It's time for a law that can hold parents responsible for violent crimes of their kids under 18 years old. If the parents are split, then the parent with the primary custody should bare most of the responsibility criminally.

No Spin Ag said:

---

American Hardwood said:

---

Oddly enough, in my observation a lot of those walls preventing open violence from women are coming down. Just look at tiktok videos of the number of women getting into public fist fights. My guess is that the campaign against masculinity and the perverse desire of Hollywood to make every action hero movie center on a violent female protagonist has had its cultural effect. May God save us all.

---

I hear you.

There's more and more women who try to have the backs of men, showing clips of women berating and mentally abusing their men, and how that leads to younger men not wanting anything to do with women.

These next few years in our society will hopefully show a reversal of these things.

---

This isn't new.

Even my wife noticed in the 90's that men were usually the subject of ridicule by women in a lot of TV commercials and sitcom's.

I find it hard to believe that the shooter was a 15 year old girl. What terrible times we live in.

Iraq2xVeteran said:

---

It's time for a law that can hold parents responsible for violent crimes of their kids under 18 years old. If the parents are split, then the parent with the primary custody should bare most of the responsibility criminally.

---

You think birth rates are in the ****ter now, start prosecuting parents for things they didn't do.

Fyi, but it's not just the parents at fault.

Quote:

---

It is unclear if Natalia is an only child, however Jeff referred to his daughter as 'kiddo' in the post and spoke proudly of the child's prowess with the weapon.
Natalie Rupnow, 15, who also went by Samantha, killed a substitute teacher and a teenage student and wounded six others with a 9mm pistol at Abundant Life Christian School on Monday, before turning the gun on herself.
No motive has been given, and police say they're working to verify whether a manifesto being shared online was written by Rupnow.
In Jeff Rupnow's Facebook post about his daughter at the range, he was asked by a friend if it was his daughter in the image. He replied: 'Joined NBSC (North Bristol Shooting Club) this spring and we have been loving every second of it.
The NBSC - or North Bristol Sportsman's Club - is a gun club in Sun Prairie, a suburb of Madison, offering annual family memberships for just $90, according to its website.
The club was founded in 1970 and has more than 600 members. The Rupnows' alleged membership has not yet been confirmed by the club. DailyMail.com has approached the NBSC for comment.

---

Quote:

---

Police, who identified Rupnow as the shooter on Monday are still investing the motive behind her rampage. Officers raided the family's home and are sifting through a manifesto that she may have left behind.
The details come amid online speculation over Rupnow's gender identity after Madison Police Chief Shon Barnes sparked fury by claiming that whether or not she is transgender is 'not important at all' to the investigation into the shooting.
Barnes also raised the possibility of Rupnow's parents facing charges, following the imprisonment of James and Jennifer Crumbley earlier this year that opened the door to prosecutions of school shooter parents.
Barnes said at Monday's press conference: 'We also want to look at if the parents may have been negligent. And that's a question that we'll have to answer with our district attorney's office.'

---

Daily Mail

~2% of the population, 1 in 50 people, are on the psychopathic end of the behavioral and temperamental spectrum, they will be selfish, narcissistic, manipulative, and lack empathy. Many of those people aren't also sociopathic or understand they need to operate within social norms and expectations or they themselves might suffer, but a portion of them can be sociopathic and will do violent harm to others.

I have my own personal theory that is shared by others that certain social and political ideologies effectively encourage and foster this same psychopathic behaviors amongst more normal persons without clinical psychopathy. The belief system creates and reinforces a set of behavioral standards and expectations that mirror or imitate psychopathic behavior. This sort of allows true psychopathy to hide in amongst ideological psychopathy.

It's hard to tell what type we are dealing with here but the thing to consider is there are a LOT of people out there with the potential to behave like this and we should be vigilant that persons showing signs or indicators get the scrutiny and mental health help they need to prevent an act like this.

agracer said:

---

No Spin Ag said:

---

American Hardwood said:

---

Oddly enough, in my observation a lot of those walls preventing open violence from women are coming down. Just look at tiktok videos of the number of women getting into public fist fights. My guess is that the campaign against masculinity and the perverse desire of Hollywood to make every action hero movie center on a violent female protagonist has had its cultural effect. May God save us all.

---

I hear you.

There's more and more women who try to have the backs of men, showing clips of women berating and mentally abusing their men, and how that leads to younger men not wanting anything to do with women.

These next few years in our society will hopefully show a reversal of these things.

---

This isn't new.

Even my wife noticed in the 90's that men were usually the subject of ridicule by women in a lot of TV commercials and sitcom's.

---

Very true. Men were a punch line, as a form of backlash from women being seen as the ditzy (Edith in All in the Family) or the Donna Reed type, and now they were equal to men.

Then men were made to be seen as less than in those commercials. And people wonder why younger men and women are where they are today.

Iraq2xVeteran said:

---

It's time for a law that can hold parents responsible for violent crimes of their kids under 18 years old. If the parents are split, then the parent with the primary custody should bare most of the responsibility criminally.

---

All crimes. Not just violent ones.

aggiepanic95 said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

If you read her "manifesto", every 5th word is "I". If we're looking for a base cause of this and how to prevent it, we should start there.No kid who is raised with empathy or has any consideration for others does this, and the introspective culture of "how does that make you feel" is obviously a big part of these incidents.

---

Is the supposed manifesto posted on this thread?

---

https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/3517646/replies/69297040

CDUB98 said:

---

Quote:

---

Some won't be happy until the law requires guns be in a safe until the moment they are to be fired,

---

Wrong.

These people won't be happy until all guns are removed from the citizenry.

---

Then they won't be happy because they will be right along side everybody else in the gulag or a mass grave.

Krazykat said:

---

I think it is time for a law that parents can be held responsible CRIMINALLY for the actions/crimes of their kids under 18 years old. I bet parents start acting like parents.

---

Unless there is clear and unequivocal negligence on their part - no. We don't hold somebody else responsible for the actions of others. That is straight up 1980's soviet era thought process there.

Phatbob said:

---

aggiepanic95 said:

---

Phatbob said:

---

If you read her "manifesto", every 5th word is "I". If we're looking for a base cause of this and how to prevent it, we should start there.No kid who is raised with empathy or has any consideration for others does this, and the introspective culture of "how does that make you feel" is obviously a big part of these incidents.

---

Is the supposed manifesto posted on this thread?

---

https://texags.com/forums/16/topics/3517646/replies/69297040

---

Thanks. I read it. Not very inspiring.

Iraq2xVeteran said:

---

It's time for a law that can hold parents responsible for violent crimes of their kids under 18 years old. If the parents are split, then the parent with the primary custody should bare most of the responsibility criminally.

---

No

Krazykat said:

---

Iraq2xVeteran said:

---

It's time for a law that can hold parents responsible for violent crimes of their kids under 18 years old. If the parents are split, then the parent with the primary custody should bare most of the responsibility criminally.

---

All crimes. Not just violent ones.

---

Hope you don't ever have kids.

El Gallo Blanco said:

---

Iraq2xVeteran said:

---

It's time for a law that can hold parents responsible for violent crimes of their kids under 18 years old. If the parents are split, then the parent with the primary custody should bare most of the responsibility criminally.

---

Even if kid decides to steal mom's sedan and go on a rampage, running innocent people over? What if it's a legit schizzophrenic break or some other severe mental episode? One of our former WR's ended up going schizzo and murdered a random jogger with a machete in Dallas in 2015. Should his poor parents be in prison for life?

I feel like people only want to go this route if it involves use of a firearm.

---

The Thomas Johnson example whom you mention was an adult man.

This is a case-by-case basis but if you have a minor whom there is clear evidence the parents were aware of having mental health issues including violent fantasy red flags, and those parents buy the kid a firearm, don't take any precautions regarding securing the weapon, and their kid kills people….then yep…prosecute them. Just like those recent cases of the parents in Michigan and that incident in Kentucky.

Same thing if you give your minor kid your car keys and knowingly let him drive with no license…he kills somebody and the evidence is your negligence contributed to the situation, then you are going to get criminally charged.

My question...why do these kids choose murder, instead of some other act to satisfy their anger issue???

I'm old, but my generation seemed to NEVER consider murder as a solution. What is at the root cause for the change?

schmellba99 said:

---

Krazykat said:

---

I think it is time for a law that parents can be held responsible CRIMINALLY for the actions/crimes of their kids under 18 years old. I bet parents start acting like parents.

---

Unless there is clear and unequivocal negligence on their part - no. We don't hold somebody else responsible for the actions of others. That is straight up 1980's soviet era thought process there.

---

I think cases where the evidence shows the parents were clearly criminally negligent in a way that was a factor in the event occurring is what many people are talking about here. Not just a blanket 'kid breaks it, parent pays for it' automatic law that applies no matter the situation.

whatthehey78 said:

---

My question...why do these kids choose murder, instead of some other act to satisfy their anger issue???

I'm old, but my generation seemed to NEVER consider murder as a solution. What is at the root cause for the change?

---

Social media

Inside of two weeks, we have had a younger man murder a health insurance CEO and was a devotee of the Unabomber.

Now a teen obsessed with the Columbine shooters.

And if people remember, Kohlberger in the Idaho murder case was a BTK fan.

aggiehawg said:

---

Inside of two weeks, we have had a younger man murder a health insurance CEO and was a devotee of the Unabomber.

Now a teen obsessed with the Columbine shooters.

And if people remember, Kohlberger in the Idaho murder case was a BTK fan.

---

We need to find someone who is a fan of vigilantes.

Pumpkinhead said:

---

El Gallo Blanco said:

---

Iraq2xVeteran said:

---

It's time for a law that can hold parents responsible for violent crimes of their kids under 18 years old. If the parents are split, then the parent with the primary custody should bare most of the responsibility criminally.

---

Even if kid decides to steal mom's sedan and go on a rampage, running innocent people over? What if it's a legit schizzophrenic break or some other severe mental episode? One of our former WR's ended up going schizzo and murdered a random jogger with a machete in Dallas in 2015. Should his poor parents be in prison for life?

I feel like people only want to go this route if it involves use of a firearm.

---

The Thomas Johnson example whom you mention was an adult man.

This is a case-by-case basis but if you have a minor whom there is clear evidence the parents were aware of having mental health issues including violent fantasy red flags, and those parents buy the kid a firearm, don't take any precautions regarding securing the weapon, and their kid kills people….then yep…prosecute them. Just like those recent cases of the parents in Michigan and that incident in Kentucky.

Same thing if you give your minor kid your car keys and knowingly let him drive with no license…he kills somebody and the evidence is your negligence contributed to the situation, then you are going to get criminally charged.

---

Yep, but people here are saying parents should be prosecuted if child steals a gun that they found from their parents. What about car or SUV?

schmellba99 said:

---

Krazykat said:

---

I think it is time for a law that parents can be held responsible CRIMINALLY for the actions/crimes of their kids under 18 years old. I bet parents start acting like parents.

---

Unless there is clear and unequivocal negligence on their part - no. We don't hold somebody else responsible for the actions of others. That is straight up 1980's soviet era thought process there.

---

When I was a fish in the Corps at A&M and a pisshead started making me and the rest of our class do pushups for something one of our dumbass buddies had done, I made this same speech about the 1980's Soviet style of unfairness.

All that did was increase our number of pushups.

Ducks4brkfast said:

---

whatthehey78 said:

---

My question...why do these kids choose murder, instead of some other act to satisfy their anger issue???

I'm old, but my generation seemed to NEVER consider murder as a solution. What is at the root cause for the change?

---

Social media

---

This...this is the first time in history where the average teenager has had a heavy glimpse into the lives of hundreds of their peers. And they are only seeing the best and happiest moments. Constantly seeing this can probably wreak havoc on a kid who doesn't have such a "wonderful" life. Girls especially...although it doesn't usually manifest outwardly as violence, like it does with boys.

El Gallo Blanco said:

---

No Spin Ag said:

---

Who?mikejones! said:

---

Do all murderers parents need to be held accountable for the deeds of their children?

---

If their children are minors and live in their home, yes.

Again, if we're holding parents accountable for their kids when their kids skip school, we sure AF can hold parents accountable for their kid murdering people.

---

What about knives, cars, chainsaws etc? Just guns? If she has stolen mom's Hyundai and mowed over 20 of her classmates at a school parade or gathering, nothing happens to her parents?

Also, should we hold people liable if a friend or attendee at a party steals a gun from a closet and goes on a rampage?

Just seems like a very slippery slope, unless you can show that the parent GAVE them that gun, or that there was some other sort of extreme negligence or something.

---

We can go "what if/bout?" ad infinitum. I'd recommend doing individual threads for each.

As for this, my stance is clear.

If you (generally speaking) are for holding parents accountable when their kids skip school, then it's hard to see how holding parents accountable to their children committing murder.

Or, one can just say no parent is responsible for anything their children do and cal it a day. At least then there'd be consistency.

Case-by-case for me means case-by-case. For example, If the parent knowingly has an unstable kid and buys them a gun and doesn't take even the most basic steps to secure it…I'd probably vote guilty of manslaughter. Just like those parents in Michigan. I'd have definitely voted to convict those folks. And several gun owners on that jury agreed with me.

El Gallo Blanco said:

---

Ducks4brkfast said:

---

whatthehey78 said:

---

My question...why do these kids choose murder, instead of some other act to satisfy their anger issue???

I'm old, but my generation seemed to NEVER consider murder as a solution. What is at the root cause for the change?

---

Social media

---

This...this is the first time in history where the average teenager has had a heavy glimpse into the lives of hundreds of their peers. And they are only seeing the best and happiest moments. Constantly seeing this can probably wreak havoc on a kid who doesn't have such a "wonderful" life. Girls especially...although it doesn't usually manifest outwardly as violence, like it does with boys.

---

And she would have never had access to the manipulative ramblings of radfem hitler.