dmart90 said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Femcel? As in female celibate? A/K/A ugly women inside and/or outside?

Why the boyfriend, then? He's celibate too?

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She was a 15 year old kid. Shouldn't she be celibate? Seems like a silly thing to call her.

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Why do we care about the celibacy status of a murderer? She killed people. The only thing that people should be focused on isn't "why" she did it - who cares, the dead sure can't - but how hard the book is going to be thrown at her, and if possible, her parents.

If parents can be held accountable for a kid that doesn't go to school, they sure AF can be held responsible for their failures by raising a murderer.

HollywoodBQ said:

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P.H. Dexippus said:

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Looks like dad tried to emphasize church and family

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ELCA

From the Church's web site, what is this?

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That's Romans 1:18-32

Oddly enough, in my observation a lot of those walls preventing open violence from women are coming down. Just look at tiktok videos of the number of women getting into public fist fights. My guess is that the campaign against masculinity and the perverse desire of Hollywood to make every action hero movie center on a violent female protagonist has had its cultural effect. May God save us all.

American Hardwood said:

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Oddly enough, in my observation a lot of those walls preventing open violence from women are coming down. Just look at tiktok videos of the number of women getting into public fist fights. My guess is that the campaign against masculinity and the perverse desire of Hollywood to make every action hero movie center on a violent female protagonist has had its cultural effect. May God save us all.

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I hear you.

There's more and more women who try to have the backs of men, showing clips of women berating and mentally abusing their men, and how that leads to younger men not wanting anything to do with women.

These next few years in our society will hopefully show a reversal of these things.

KidDoc said:

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The parents need to be held accountable for allowing open access to a loaded firearm. Don't need new laws just need to enforce the ones already in place. No 15 year old should be walking around packing.

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If*

We don't know yet how she got the gun. What if she stole it from her parent?

Who?mikejones! said:

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KidDoc said:

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The parents need to be held accountable for allowing open access to a loaded firearm. Don't need new laws just need to enforce the ones already in place. No 15 year old should be walking around packing.

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If*

We don't know yet how she got the gun. What if she stole it from her parent?

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You shouldn't be able to steal a gun from your parent if they are secured as the law states. I doubt she was a safe cracker.

Who?mikejones! said:

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KidDoc said:

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The parents need to be held accountable for allowing open access to a loaded firearm. Don't need new laws just need to enforce the ones already in place. No 15 year old should be walking around packing.

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If*

We don't know yet how she got the gun. What if she stole it from her parent?

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What if the parent didn't know their child was not going to school?

If the parents of the latter can be held accountable, then I don't see why the parents who's child murdered people came be as well.

No Spin Ag said:

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Who?mikejones! said:

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KidDoc said:

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The parents need to be held accountable for allowing open access to a loaded firearm. Don't need new laws just need to enforce the ones already in place. No 15 year old should be walking around packing.

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If*

We don't know yet how she got the gun. What if she stole it from her parent?

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What if the parent didn't know their child was not going to school?

If the parents of the latter can be held accountable, then I don't see why the parents who's child murdered people came be as well.

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They can be and have been, it isn't a new concept.

One of the more recent ones father was sent to prison because he gave his f'd up kid a rifle as a gift (or something like that) after it was known that the kid had serious issues.

No Spin Ag said:

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dmart90 said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Femcel? As in female celibate? A/K/A ugly women inside and/or outside?

Why the boyfriend, then? He's celibate too?

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She was a 15 year old kid. Shouldn't she be celibate? Seems like a silly thing to call her.

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Why do we care about the celibacy status of a murderer? She killed people. The only thing that people should be focused on isn't "why" she did it - who cares, the dead sure can't - but how hard the book is going to be thrown at her, and if possible, her parents.

If parents can be held accountable for a kid that doesn't go to school, they sure AF can be held responsible for their failures by raising a murderer.

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I see you arent a fan of analyzing statistical data and leading or lagging indicators in order to prevent the same issue from repeating itself over and over again.

Who?mikejones! said:

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I think its a slippery slope to charge people who didnt actually commit the deed and didn't purposely contribute to the crime.

Would you say the same if the girl took their car and drove it through a bus stop at the school? Or what about a can of gas that she could use to burn the school down?

How far are you willing to go to expand the guilty net?

I'm simply saying we should wait to see the facts come out. But, I'm hesitant to blame anyone but the shooter for the death of the students and teachers

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If you have loaded firearms and kids, especially teens, it is your responsibility to have a gun safe.

From PerplexityAI:


In the United States, gun laws regarding parental responsibility to restrict minors' access to firearms vary by state, but there are some common elements:

## Child Access Prevention (CAP) Laws

21 states and the District of Columbia have laws that impose criminal liability on people who store firearms where minors could or do gain access to them[1]. These laws typically apply when a person "knows or reasonably should know" that a child is likely to gain access to the firearm[1].

## Safe Storage Laws

Some states require firearms to be securely stored when not in use. For example:

- California, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Oregon, and Rhode Island require all firearms to be securely stored unless in use or readily controlled[1].
- Colorado's law considers parents or caregivers negligent if a household firearm is accessible to a child 18 years old or younger, regardless of whether they gain access or use it[5].

## Variations in CAP Laws

1. Some states impose liability only if the child uses or carries the firearm[1].
2. Some laws apply even when the firearm is unloaded[1].
3. Some states impose civil liability for damages resulting from the discharge of a firearm by a minor who gains access[1].

## Federal Law

While there is no federal CAP law, federal law does allow parents or guardians to purchase firearms or ammunition as a gift for a juvenile under 18. However, those under 18 may only receive and possess handguns with written parental permission for limited purposes such as employment, ranching, farming, target practice, or hunting[7].

## Effectiveness

Research suggests that strong child access prevention laws are associated with an 8% lower rate of suicide by firearm among young people, compared to states without such laws[6].

It's important to note that laws and their effectiveness can vary significantly between states, and parents should be aware of their local regulations and responsibilities regarding firearm storage and access.

Citations:
[1] https://giffords.org/lawcenter/gun-laws/policy-areas/child-consumer-safety/child-access-prevention-and-safe-storage/
[2] https://sph.umich.edu/pursuit/2024posts/what-parents-should-know-about-secure-gun-storage-after-the-crumbley-convictions.html
[3] https://giffords.org/lawcenter/gun-laws/policy-areas/who-can-have-a-gun/minimum-age/
[4] https://ojjdp.ojp.gov/sites/g/files/xyckuh176/files/pubs/reform2/ch2_h.html
[5] https://cdphe.colorado.gov/colorado-gun-violence-prevention-resource-bank/prevention-approaches/child-access-prevention-laws
[6] https://journalistsresource.org/health/child-access-prevention-research/
[7] https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-parent-or-guardian-purchase-firearms-or-ammunition-gift-juvenile-less-18-years-age
[8] https://www.aap.org/en/advocacy/state-advocacy/safe-storage-of-firearms/
[9] https://www.townofblackmountain.org/DocumentCenter/View/198/Gun-Safety-PDF
[10] https://www.michigan.gov/mdhhs/inside-mdhhs/newsroom/2024/02/08/firearms-laws

No Spin Ag said:

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dmart90 said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Femcel? As in female celibate? A/K/A ugly women inside and/or outside?

Why the boyfriend, then? He's celibate too?

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She was a 15 year old kid. Shouldn't she be celibate? Seems like a silly thing to call her.

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Why do we care about the celibacy status of a murderer? She killed people. The only thing that people should be focused on isn't "why" she did it - who cares, the dead sure can't - but how hard the book is going to be thrown at her, and if possible, her parents.

If parents can be held accountable for a kid that doesn't go to school, they sure AF can be held responsible for their failures by raising a murderer.

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I know reading is hard, but damn...

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/statutes/948/55

Heres the relevant Wisconsin guns storage laws.

Quote:

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within the reach or easy access of a child.
(1) In this section, "child" means a person who has not attained the age of 14 years.

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I think the girl was 15, so, I'm not sure how that effects the storage laws since it defines child as 14 and under.

Quote:

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Except as provided in par. (c), any person who intentionally sells, loans or gives a dangerous weapon to a person under 18 years of age is guilty of a Class I felony.
(c) Whoever violates par. (b) is guilty of a Class H felony if the person under 18 years of age under par. (b) discharges the firearm and the discharge causes death to himself, herself or another

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This is a provision for those 18 and under, but it specifically says "intentionally" gives a weapon to a child.

Ianal. There might very well be some other statutes that I didn't find. But, it doesn't appear to me there's a route to charge the parents. Nor do I think it's a good idea.

He had a safe and she said she got it by lying to and manipulating him

JobSecurity said:

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He had a safe and she said she got it by lying to and manipulating him

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No surprise if that is accurate. Daughters are experts at manipulating dads.

Both my sisters were experts at it, and I could barely get him to do anything I asked when we were kids.

schmellba99 said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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dmart90 said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Femcel? As in female celibate? A/K/A ugly women inside and/or outside?

Why the boyfriend, then? He's celibate too?

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She was a 15 year old kid. Shouldn't she be celibate? Seems like a silly thing to call her.

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Why do we care about the celibacy status of a murderer? She killed people. The only thing that people should be focused on isn't "why" she did it - who cares, the dead sure can't - but how hard the book is going to be thrown at her, and if possible, her parents.

If parents can be held accountable for a kid that doesn't go to school, they sure AF can be held responsible for their failures by raising a murderer.

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I see you arent a fan of analyzing statistical data and leading or lagging indicators in order to prevent the same issue from repeating itself over and over again.

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They've been looked at ad nauseum. How many decades have we been having these things happen? Three, going on four in a few years.

If nothings been done in over a quarter of a century, I have little faith that it'll be done at all.

So, when all the "thoughts and prayers" are over and done with, and these things still happen, at some point (now) you just need to accept that people kill people and treat the killer for what they did.

Now, I'll be all for something being done that changes things, but until then, this murderer needs to be held to account to the fullest extent of the law, period.

No Spin Ag said:

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schmellba99 said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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dmart90 said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Femcel? As in female celibate? A/K/A ugly women inside and/or outside?

Why the boyfriend, then? He's celibate too?

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She was a 15 year old kid. Shouldn't she be celibate? Seems like a silly thing to call her.

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Why do we care about the celibacy status of a murderer? She killed people. The only thing that people should be focused on isn't "why" she did it - who cares, the dead sure can't - but how hard the book is going to be thrown at her, and if possible, her parents.

If parents can be held accountable for a kid that doesn't go to school, they sure AF can be held responsible for their failures by raising a murderer.

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I see you arent a fan of analyzing statistical data and leading or lagging indicators in order to prevent the same issue from repeating itself over and over again.

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They've been looked at ad nauseum. How many decades have we been having these things happen? Three, going on four in a few years.

If nothings been done in over a quarter of a century, I have little faith that it'll be done at all.

So, when all the "thoughts and prayers" are over and done with, and these things still happen, at some point (now) you just need to accept that people kill people and treat the killer for what they did.

Now, I'll be all for something being done that changes things, but until then, this murderer needs to be held to account to the fullest extent of the law, period.

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Nobody is arguing with that.

But to be willfully ignorant and say "why doesn't matter!" is childish and obtuse.

No Spin Ag said:

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ts5641 said:

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JamesPShelley said:

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ttha_aggie_09 said:

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What the hell is wrong with our society? Thoughts & Prayers to all of those families

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Those 'thoughts and prayers', I'm sorry, won't help at all. Likely a 'gun free' zone didn't help either.

Bet an armed 'christian' would have helped. Maybe hang a couple 'gun zone' signs.

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Prayer does help though. It helps people doing the praying and is good for those receiving. If we give up praying then we really are lost.

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If only thoughts and prayers actually did anything to keep those thoughts and prayers from being done.

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How do you know it doesn't?

Quote:

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but until then, this murderer needs to be held to account to the fullest extent of the law, period.

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Have you still not figured out that she killed herself, even after multiple people told you?

IslanderAg04 said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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ts5641 said:

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JamesPShelley said:

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ttha_aggie_09 said:

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What the hell is wrong with our society? Thoughts & Prayers to all of those families

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Those 'thoughts and prayers', I'm sorry, won't help at all. Likely a 'gun free' zone didn't help either.

Bet an armed 'christian' would have helped. Maybe hang a couple 'gun zone' signs.

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Prayer does help though. It helps people doing the praying and is good for those receiving. If we give up praying then we really are lost.

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If only thoughts and prayers actually did anything to keep those thoughts and prayers from being done.

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How do you know it doesn't?

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Are the murderer no longer dead?

Quote:

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Some won't be happy until the law requires guns be in a safe until the moment they are to be fired,

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Wrong.

These people won't be happy until all guns are removed from the citizenry.

Underrated post

Well said. My dad was a cop his entire life. He had his service pistol and Sam Brown hanging on a coat rack with his uniform.
He told me to never touch that gun, and if I did, he would know, and would beat my butt till I could no longer stand up.
I never touched it.

CDUB98 said:

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Quote:

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but until then, this murderer needs to be held to account to the fullest extent of the law, period.

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Have you still not figured out that she killed herself, even after multiple people told you?

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I have, and that's my bad.

The parents still need to be held accountable for raising a murderer.

KidDoc said:

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The parents need to be held accountable for allowing open access to a loaded firearm. Don't need new laws just need to enforce the ones already in place. No 15 year old should be walking around packing.

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Perhaps she got the gun from someone other than her parents. Perhaps another student (who got the gun from his or her parents).

Do all murderers parents need to be held accountable for the deeds of their children?

First time looking at this thread, what's the synopsis? In 10 words or less.

jt2hunt said:

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First time looking at this thread, what's the synopsis? In 10 words or less.

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A clearly crazy teenage girl shot up her school.

From her Dad's FB page in August.



Skeet shooting with shotguns.
Her Dad.


Daily Mail

FWIW.

I think it is time for a law that parents can be held responsible CRIMINALLY for the actions/crimes of their kids under 18 years old. I bet parents start acting like parents.