TarponChaser said:

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I remember when I was a kid in the 80's getting scolded for killing trees for preferring paper bags at the grocery store and how plastic was the better choice to save the trees.

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Still true.

The fundamental problem with plastic recycling, other than clean PET, is that we lack the chemistry necessary to recycle it. As a Ph.D. chemist with over 60 catalysis patents in the petrochemical industry, I know all too well how difficult it is to stage or predict discovery and invention, but we simply lack the catalyst know-how to efficiently recycle plastic waste. We can landfill it, burn it for fuel, or use brute force recycling methods that are a placeholder at best. Plastic is still an amazing material, and is responsible for countless improvements for humanity, including being much less destructive to the environment than other alternatives. The one thing we should NOT be doing is dumping plastic waste into our environment. Re-use or recycle when feasible, but at least make sure that it ends up in a waste stream and not an actual stream.

City of Houston recycling program operates in a deficit. I think I remember up to $1M. Someone might double check that…..but I do know they operate in the red.

94chem said:

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TarponChaser said:

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I remember when I was a kid in the 80's getting scolded for killing trees for preferring paper bags at the grocery store and how plastic was the better choice to save the trees.

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Still true.

The fundamental problem with plastic recycling, other than clean PET, is that we lack the chemistry necessary to recycle it. As a Ph.D. chemist with over 60 catalysis patents in the petrochemical industry, I know all too well how difficult it is to stage or predict discovery and invention, but we simply lack the catalyst know-how to efficiently recycle plastic waste. We can landfill it, burn it for fuel, or use brute force recycling methods that are a placeholder at best. Plastic is still an amazing material, and is responsible for countless improvements for humanity, including being much less destructive to the environment than other alternatives. The one thing we should NOT be doing is dumping plastic waste into our environment. Re-use or recycle when feasible, but at least make sure that it ends up in a waste stream and not an actual stream.

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It's not plastic per se it's more the single-use plastic.

Like, using the Brita water filter because the tap water here tastes nasty. The pitcher and all the parts are plastic but then use reusable water bottles of metal or even the older Nalgene jugs.

And why aren't we using aluminum more widely instead of plastic for the bottles of water or Gatorade or whatever from the corner stop & rob?

Plastic milk jugs? Is glass too heavy or what?

I'd like to see if we could come up with better quality biodegradable trash bags too.

Single use is a problem, but remember that the petrochemical industry exists because not everything can be burned as fuel. The transition to alternative fuels will create an interesting conundrum for chemicals (including plastics). Whereas energy is merely the generation of heat or the movement of electrons, it can be done by storing charge and not by consuming matter. There is, however, no alternative to chemicals. You can't put your groceries in an electron, or build a playground using wind, or drive a nuclear.

AggieDruggist89 said:

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Recycling increases Entropy.

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So does your existence

94chem said:

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Single use is a problem, but remember that the petrochemical industry exists because not everything can be burned as fuel. The transition to alternative fuels will create an interesting conundrum for chemicals (including plastics). Whereas energy is merely the generation of heat or the movement of electrons, it can be done by storing charge and not by consuming matter. There is, however, no alternative to chemicals. You can't put your groceries in an electron, or build a playground using wind, or drive a nuclear.

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Just for the record, when I'm talking about chemicals I'm talking about stuff like BPE that can leach into food not general use as required.

Houston Lee said:

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Quote:

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JOHN STOSSEL: Do you recycle? For decades, we've been told: "Recycle!" Because recycling will save the planet, and that's what people believe.

"If we're not using recycled paper, we're cutting down more trees!" says Lynn Hoffman, co-president of Eureka Recycling.

Recycling paper or cardboard does save trees. Recycling aluminum does save energy. But most of the other stuff is impractical.

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Huge amounts of what people send to her recycling plant will never be recycled. The worst is plastic, which for years has been marked with the recycling symbol. Even worse, plastic bags clog recycling machines. But people think most of our plastic is recycled.

The reality is that the amount of plastic actually recycled is around 5%.

All my life I've heard how important it is to recycle.

Science writer John Tierney debunked recycling claims years ago in a New York Times Magazine story, "Recycling Is Garbage." It set a Times record for hate mail.

But what he wrote was true.

"It's even more true today, the economics has gotten even worse," says Tierney.

My city would save over $300 million a year if it stopped recycling. It would be smarter to just dump our garbage in landfills.

"Recycling is an industry that uses increasingly expensive labor to produce materials that are worth less and less," says Tierney.

Because it's not worth recycling here, much is shipped overseas to countries like Malaysia, here it's just piled up some of it from America. That pollutes even more. And what they don't burn, they just dump in the ocean.

Plastic recycling is a “dead-end street."

That quote…unbelievably…is from @Greenpeace.

In my new video, we debunk the recycling religion. pic.twitter.com/loe7F7gS2L

— John Stossel (@JohnStossel) December 12, 2024

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Its been a known 'feel good' scam for quite some time.

TarponChaser said:

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94chem said:

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Single use is a problem, but remember that the petrochemical industry exists because not everything can be burned as fuel. The transition to alternative fuels will create an interesting conundrum for chemicals (including plastics). Whereas energy is merely the generation of heat or the movement of electrons, it can be done by storing charge and not by consuming matter. There is, however, no alternative to chemicals. You can't put your groceries in an electron, or build a playground using wind, or drive a nuclear.

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Just for the record, when I'm talking about chemicals I'm talking about stuff like BPE that can leach into food not general use as required.

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BPA. Yeah, I have a long-time friend at Eastman who led the team that developed Tritan, the BPA-free polycarbonate. They originally designed it for an engineering thermoplastic, but it was too expensive, so they pivoted and made a killing on baby bottles, water bottles, etc.

Quote:

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Plastic milk jugs? Is glass too heavy or what?

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In Canada they sell milk in plastic bags. They have jugs at home that they then put the bags into. I imagine that's at least LESS plastic than a milk jug.

Some Central American countries sell single-serving water in plastic bags.

No Spin Ag said:

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Houston Lee said:

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Quote:

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JOHN STOSSEL: Do you recycle? For decades, we've been told: "Recycle!" Because recycling will save the planet, and that's what people believe.

"If we're not using recycled paper, we're cutting down more trees!" says Lynn Hoffman, co-president of Eureka Recycling.

Recycling paper or cardboard does save trees. Recycling aluminum does save energy. But most of the other stuff is impractical.

---

Huge amounts of what people send to her recycling plant will never be recycled. The worst is plastic, which for years has been marked with the recycling symbol. Even worse, plastic bags clog recycling machines. But people think most of our plastic is recycled.

The reality is that the amount of plastic actually recycled is around 5%.

All my life I've heard how important it is to recycle.

Science writer John Tierney debunked recycling claims years ago in a New York Times Magazine story, "Recycling Is Garbage." It set a Times record for hate mail.

But what he wrote was true.

"It's even more true today, the economics has gotten even worse," says Tierney.

My city would save over $300 million a year if it stopped recycling. It would be smarter to just dump our garbage in landfills.

"Recycling is an industry that uses increasingly expensive labor to produce materials that are worth less and less," says Tierney.

Because it's not worth recycling here, much is shipped overseas to countries like Malaysia, here it's just piled up some of it from America. That pollutes even more. And what they don't burn, they just dump in the ocean.

Plastic recycling is a “dead-end street."

That quote…unbelievably…is from @Greenpeace.

In my new video, we debunk the recycling religion. pic.twitter.com/loe7F7gS2L

— John Stossel (@JohnStossel) December 12, 2024

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Looks like John is over a decade late on what everyone who actually looks into things, and doesn't wait to be told what, why, and how to feel about things has known, that recycling of everything is a joke.

Good for John, I guess, but this is about as old news as it gets. It's not exactly Geraldo and Al's vault, but is up there to those who know.

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The snarkiness of this post isn't warranted. The problem is that the overwhelming majority of Americans don't look into things and thus don't know so reports like these matter. We've been conditioned to believe that the "news" and "science" are fundamentally honest so what those institutions tell us is taken as truth and here we are with another lie that's taken on a life of its own. Congrats on being ahead of the curve but we need more stories like this one, not less.

We've been brainwashed for four decades now and have no clue that we almost certainly make things worst by recycling particularly plastics. I'm curious where the funding for this nonsense originated way back in the day. If I had to guess I'd say the plastic industry.

Here in San Antonio the city's Solid Waste department has a group of people driving Jeeps. They randomly check recycling cans for forbidden materials, cans facing the opposite direction, etc. If something is found that the Solid Waste people don't like, you get a notice stapled around the handle on the recycling can.

I bury all the questionable stuff at the bottom third of the can and load the top with cardboard, aluminum, etc. Two fold purpose - get rid of junk and deter the Jeep driver from getting the bottom of issue.

AgCat93 said:

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Here in San Antonio the city's Solid Waste department has a group of people driving Jeeps. They randomly check recycling cans for forbidden materials, cans facing the opposite direction, etc. If something is found that the Solid Waste people don't like, you get a notice stapled around the handle on the recycling can.

I bury all the questionable stuff at the bottom third of the can and load the top with cardboard, aluminum, etc. Two fold purpose - get rid of junk and deter the Jeep driver from getting the bottom of issue.

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At that point why bother? Just put it all in the trash. If they're going to punish you for making an effort and not getting it right just give them the finger and move on with your life.

Yeah, we only put paper, cardboard, cans, and glass in recycling. Plastic goes in the trash.

Around here, it may be worth dumping things like plastic milk jugs at the recycling center even though they haven't recycled them in years.

Why?

Because they compress them into large block before throwing them away.

That way, the milk jugs take far less room in the dump. They are going to the dump either way, but one way reduces much of the wasted space.

Pretty sure a milk jug doesn't take up much space after one of these runs over it a few times:

eric76 said:

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Around here, it may be worth dumping things like plastic milk jugs at the recycling center even though they haven't recycled them in years.

Why?

Because they compress them into large block before throwing them away.

That way, the milk jugs take far less room in the dump. They are going to the dump either way, but one way reduces much of the wasted space.

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Speaking of waste, I wonder how much tax payer $$$ they're getting for this "business"?

Urban Ag said:

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Old Sarge said:

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Regular trash bin gets the potentially stinky trash.

Recycle bin gets the non stinky trash. Unless the regular trash is going to overflow, and the recycle is the next day.

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Aka the Corpus Christi approach

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Well whatcha know, CCTX got it right for once.

Thinking about this again. I would think the EU would be further ahead of the game than we are for dealing with waste and finding the most economical way to recycle and reuse. The EU has landfilll space limitation which means recycling has a greater chance of succeeding.

General Jack D. Ripper said:

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eric76 said:

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Around here, it may be worth dumping things like plastic milk jugs at the recycling center even though they haven't recycled them in years.

Why?

Because they compress them into large block before throwing them away.

That way, the milk jugs take far less room in the dump. They are going to the dump either way, but one way reduces much of the wasted space.

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Speaking of waste, I wonder how much tax payer $$$ they're getting for this "business"?

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When the city employees crush it, load it in the garbage truck and haul it to the dump, do they get paid extra?

Something better than landfills needs to happen to all this plastic. Recycle it, burn it, or otherwise. Plastic is a problem in need of a solution.

94chem said:

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TarponChaser said:

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I remember when I was a kid in the 80's getting scolded for killing trees for preferring paper bags at the grocery store and how plastic was the better choice to save the trees.

---

Still true.

The fundamental problem with plastic recycling, other than clean PET, is that we lack the chemistry necessary to recycle it. As a Ph.D. chemist with over 60 catalysis patents in the petrochemical industry, I know all too well how difficult it is to stage or predict discovery and invention, but we simply lack the catalyst know-how to efficiently recycle plastic waste. We can landfill it, burn it for fuel, or use brute force recycling methods that are a placeholder at best. Plastic is still an amazing material, and is responsible for countless improvements for humanity, including being much less destructive to the environment than other alternatives. The one thing we should NOT be doing is dumping plastic waste into our environment. Re-use or recycle when feasible, but at least make sure that it ends up in a waste stream and not an actual stream.

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George Carlin said it best.

BQ_90 said:

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AggieDruggist89 said:

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Am i the only one who purposely throws non recycle into recycle and recycle into nonrecycle bin?

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well they both go to the landfill

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Yep. I'm the only one on the block that doesn't put out the blue bin after finding this out.