Cruiser87 said:

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infinity ag said:

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Cruiser87 said:

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First, I have been against H-1B for 25+ years.

That said, I have hired a few and rejected many for lack of skills I'm looking for (IT security). I've also interviewed a lot of Americans, and they just don't have the necessary skills I need. Anybody can learn the skills I look for, so I don't personally think it's specialized.

Also, I'm in consulting, and some clients want particular locations. They like India more than U.S. when only cost is the factor.

---

I am not saying that you are wrong, but there are reasons.

1. If you can't find people with the necessary skills among all those CS grads, then you must be paying them peanuts. So they end up going elsewhere to be paid a fair wage, and you are left with the H1B monkeys who will dance to your tune at whatever you will pay them. "Can't fine Americans" is a load of bs that corps always use.

2. Companies have scammed the American people for decades leading Americans to move away from IT jobs as they think they will lose out to H1Bs anyway. So the pool is smaller than what it could have been.

Stop H1B. It will be short term pain but long term benefit for America and Americans.

---

Totally agree. I want the end of this program. I don't hire direct from college, due to the skill set. If they teach it in college, I'm not aware. Of course, if they taught it in college, I'd make use of it in some fashion.

---

Well, corporations like to have it all these days. They don't like to invest in people, they just like to get everything for free. Everything is tied to execs making obscene amounts of money. Not just money but obscene amounts of raises and bonuses citing "executive talent is hard to find". The CEO of my employer a few years ago presided over the stock price tanking 93% over his term of 4 years. Yes, 93%. But he got his bonuses and raises all this time and only got fired after all the money he made. He laid off so many people in between just to prop up the stock price, even that failed.

So try hiring some smart kids from good US colleges, at a reasonable entry level compensation and train them up. They will pick up quickly. Treat them right, reward them as appropriate and you will get loyalty out of them. Try it. College doesn't always teach you work skills. It teaches you how to think and problem-solve which is a transferable skill. We all must contribute in nation building, not in selling out.

I work in the IT space. Cognizant, like an other Indian behemoth Tata, will favor Indian employees over locals in the countries in which you operate unless you bring unique value.

One of several reasons I've never worked for an Indian IT firm.

Nanomachines son said:

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waitwhat? said:

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Quote:

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This has NOTHING to do with talent not available in the US. It has all to do with US companies wanting cheap labor and not wanting to help contribute to the US economy.

---

https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/62g-h1b-required-wage

Quote:

---

The H-1B employer must pay its H-1B worker(s) at least the "required" wage which is the higher of the prevailing wage or the employer's actual wage (in-house wage) for similarly employed workers.

---

H1B workers have to be paid a high wage by law. Companies don't save money by hiring them unless the company violates the law.

---

And virtually all of them violate the law in many different ways. It's a scam top to bottom.

---

I've been recruiting in tech for 30 years and hired hundreds of H-1's. I have not found this to be the case. I have hired some recently with packages of $500k. Most employers hire the most qualified, period. There are some insanely brilliant and talented H-1B's out there, a lot of them.

This article though is about Cognizant which is an outsourcing firm like Tata. It's a big black mark when I see a resume from places like that. They do abuse the system.

What we need is reform. First off H-1's should be merit and need based and not a lottery, that's never made sense. Second, companies that hire more than 25% of employees who are H-1s should be examined with a fine tooth comb to look for abuse. Places like Cognizant and Tata are overwhelmingly H-1s and once those folks get their Green Cards they get out. That is the type of thing we need to fix.

The idea that simply because someone is here on H-1 or is Indian or Chinese or whatever and should be viewed negatively is just gross. The irony is how many of those same folks love Vivek or Kash Patel who are children of Indian immigrants. Most of them are family oriented and academically oriented and they assimilate well to the US.

Just a lot of ignorance on this thread.

aggie93 said:

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The idea that simply because someone is here on H-1 or is Indian or Chinese or whatever and should be viewed negatively is just gross. The irony is how many of those same folks love Vivek or Kash Patel who are children of Indian immigrants. Most of them are family oriented and academically oriented and they assimilate well to the US.

---

It's not about hating people as individuals.

But en masse, immigration like we've seen over the past 20 years changes the very fabric of our society. There's no way to avoid it. Assimilation only gets you so far; the differences in culture, religion, background, history, etc., are too vast.

And when the newcomers outnumber the locals -- as they do now in so many communities -- it flips the playing field. THEY feel at home and you feel lost and out of place. The local culture becomes their culture.

Living in a community where immigrants are the majority has many drawbacks. There is no common language, culture, customs, community norms, holidays, etc. It manifests itself in many ways, and it gets exhausting.

I spent the weekend recently in a small town that to date has been spared the many "benefits" of mass immigration. There was a Christmas parade and everyone was saying "Merry Christmas" and greeting friends and neighbors, openly celebrating what once was a common shared experience across the country. It was so different from where I live ... like night and day.

EclipseAg said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

The idea that simply because someone is here on H-1 or is Indian or Chinese or whatever and should be viewed negatively is just gross. The irony is how many of those same folks love Vivek or Kash Patel who are children of Indian immigrants. Most of them are family oriented and academically oriented and they assimilate well to the US.

---

It's not about hating people as individuals.

But en masse, immigration like we've seen over the past 20 years changes the very fabric of our society. There's no way to avoid it. Assimilation only gets you so far; the differences in culture, religion, background, history, etc., are too vast.

And when the newcomers outnumber the locals -- as they do now in so many communities -- it flips the playing field. THEY feel at home and you feel lost and out of place. The local culture becomes their culture.

Living in a community where immigrants are the majority has many drawbacks. There is no common language, culture, customs, community norms, holidays, etc. It manifests itself in many ways, and it gets exhausting.

I spent the weekend recently in a small town that to date has been spared the many "benefits" of mass immigration. There was a Christmas parade and everyone was saying "Merry Christmas" and greeting friends and neighbors, openly celebrating what once was a common shared experience across the country. It was so different from where I live ... like night and day.

---

We are being colonized. Plain and simple. I suspect this won't become apparent for a lot of people until they are being kicked out of their community. The United States is not some magic place that will be able to survive historic norms.

aggie93 said:

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Nanomachines son said:

---

waitwhat? said:

---

Quote:

---

This has NOTHING to do with talent not available in the US. It has all to do with US companies wanting cheap labor and not wanting to help contribute to the US economy.

---

https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/62g-h1b-required-wage

Quote:

---

The H-1B employer must pay its H-1B worker(s) at least the "required" wage which is the higher of the prevailing wage or the employer's actual wage (in-house wage) for similarly employed workers.

---

H1B workers have to be paid a high wage by law. Companies don't save money by hiring them unless the company violates the law.

---

And virtually all of them violate the law in many different ways. It's a scam top to bottom.

---

I've been recruiting in tech for 30 years and hired hundreds of H-1's. I have not found this to be the case. I have hired some recently with packages of $500k. Most employers hire the most qualified, period. There are some insanely brilliant and talented H-1B's out there, a lot of them.

This article though is about Cognizant which is an outsourcing firm like Tata. It's a big black mark when I see a resume from places like that. They do abuse the system.

What we need is reform. First off H-1's should be merit and need based and not a lottery, that's never made sense. Second, companies that hire more than 25% of employees who are H-1s should be examined with a fine tooth comb to look for abuse. Places like Cognizant and Tata are overwhelmingly H-1s and once those folks get their Green Cards they get out. That is the type of thing we need to fix.

The idea that simply because someone is here on H-1 or is Indian or Chinese or whatever and should be viewed negatively is just gross. The irony is how many of those same folks love Vivek or Kash Patel who are children of Indian immigrants. Most of them are family oriented and academically oriented and they assimilate well to the US.

Just a lot of ignorance on this thread.

---

Go open a history book and see how mass migration always leads to conflict and war.

aggie93 said:

---

Nanomachines son said:

---

waitwhat? said:

---

Quote:

---

This has NOTHING to do with talent not available in the US. It has all to do with US companies wanting cheap labor and not wanting to help contribute to the US economy.

---

https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/62g-h1b-required-wage

Quote:

---

The H-1B employer must pay its H-1B worker(s) at least the "required" wage which is the higher of the prevailing wage or the employer's actual wage (in-house wage) for similarly employed workers.

---

H1B workers have to be paid a high wage by law. Companies don't save money by hiring them unless the company violates the law.

---

And virtually all of them violate the law in many different ways. It's a scam top to bottom.

---

I've been recruiting in tech for 30 years and hired hundreds of H-1's. I have not found this to be the case. I have hired some recently with packages of $500k. Most employers hire the most qualified, period. There are some insanely brilliant and talented H-1B's out there, a lot of them.

This article though is about Cognizant which is an outsourcing firm like Tata. It's a big black mark when I see a resume from places like that. They do abuse the system.

What we need is reform. First off H-1's should be merit and need based and not a lottery, that's never made sense. Second, companies that hire more than 25% of employees who are H-1s should be examined with a fine tooth comb to look for abuse. Places like Cognizant and Tata are overwhelmingly H-1s and once those folks get their Green Cards they get out. That is the type of thing we need to fix.

The idea that simply because someone is here on H-1 or is Indian or Chinese or whatever and should be viewed negatively is just gross. The irony is how many of those same folks love Vivek or Kash Patel who are children of Indian immigrants. Most of them are family oriented and academically oriented and they assimilate well to the US.

Just a lot of ignorance on this thread.

---

I don't expect you to spit on the plate you eat from.

Politicians, execs and recruiters like yourself make money with this runaway H1B scam.
Losers are the American citizens who are not in these groups.

Abrogate H1B. Trash it. Bring in a new program based on US needs that will help the country (not just politicians, CEOs and recruiters). MAGA.

Pookers said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

Nanomachines son said:

---

waitwhat? said:

---

Quote:

---

This has NOTHING to do with talent not available in the US. It has all to do with US companies wanting cheap labor and not wanting to help contribute to the US economy.

---

https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/62g-h1b-required-wage

Quote:

---

The H-1B employer must pay its H-1B worker(s) at least the "required" wage which is the higher of the prevailing wage or the employer's actual wage (in-house wage) for similarly employed workers.

---

H1B workers have to be paid a high wage by law. Companies don't save money by hiring them unless the company violates the law.

---

And virtually all of them violate the law in many different ways. It's a scam top to bottom.

---

I've been recruiting in tech for 30 years and hired hundreds of H-1's. I have not found this to be the case. I have hired some recently with packages of $500k. Most employers hire the most qualified, period. There are some insanely brilliant and talented H-1B's out there, a lot of them.

This article though is about Cognizant which is an outsourcing firm like Tata. It's a big black mark when I see a resume from places like that. They do abuse the system.

What we need is reform. First off H-1's should be merit and need based and not a lottery, that's never made sense. Second, companies that hire more than 25% of employees who are H-1s should be examined with a fine tooth comb to look for abuse. Places like Cognizant and Tata are overwhelmingly H-1s and once those folks get their Green Cards they get out. That is the type of thing we need to fix.

The idea that simply because someone is here on H-1 or is Indian or Chinese or whatever and should be viewed negatively is just gross. The irony is how many of those same folks love Vivek or Kash Patel who are children of Indian immigrants. Most of them are family oriented and academically oriented and they assimilate well to the US.

Just a lot of ignorance on this thread.

---

Go open a history book and see how mass migration always leads to conflict and war.

---

Not talking about mass migration. I'm talking about reform. Completely opposed to illegal immigration and in favor of a strong border and harsh penalties for people breaking the law. I'm talking about people that are highly educated (Masters plus most of the time) in Engineering fields and Medicine primarily. I want the US to be the place for the best and brightest in the world to come. Make it merit based and not lottery based and narrow the eligible fields as needed.

FWIW this country has had many waves of immigration that have done fine. Some communities do have an ethnic bent for sure. That's how you get Wurstfest and Shiner Beer and 1000 other examples. Nothing wrong with having pride in your heritage as long as you are looking to assimilate and be an American first.

infinity ag said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

Nanomachines son said:

---

waitwhat? said:

---

Quote:

---

This has NOTHING to do with talent not available in the US. It has all to do with US companies wanting cheap labor and not wanting to help contribute to the US economy.

---

https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/62g-h1b-required-wage

Quote:

---

The H-1B employer must pay its H-1B worker(s) at least the "required" wage which is the higher of the prevailing wage or the employer's actual wage (in-house wage) for similarly employed workers.

---

H1B workers have to be paid a high wage by law. Companies don't save money by hiring them unless the company violates the law.

---

And virtually all of them violate the law in many different ways. It's a scam top to bottom.

---

I've been recruiting in tech for 30 years and hired hundreds of H-1's. I have not found this to be the case. I have hired some recently with packages of $500k. Most employers hire the most qualified, period. There are some insanely brilliant and talented H-1B's out there, a lot of them.

This article though is about Cognizant which is an outsourcing firm like Tata. It's a big black mark when I see a resume from places like that. They do abuse the system.

What we need is reform. First off H-1's should be merit and need based and not a lottery, that's never made sense. Second, companies that hire more than 25% of employees who are H-1s should be examined with a fine tooth comb to look for abuse. Places like Cognizant and Tata are overwhelmingly H-1s and once those folks get their Green Cards they get out. That is the type of thing we need to fix.

The idea that simply because someone is here on H-1 or is Indian or Chinese or whatever and should be viewed negatively is just gross. The irony is how many of those same folks love Vivek or Kash Patel who are children of Indian immigrants. Most of them are family oriented and academically oriented and they assimilate well to the US.

Just a lot of ignorance on this thread.

---

I don't expect you to spit on the plate you eat from.

Politicians, execs and recruiters like yourself make money with this runaway H1B scam.
Losers are the American citizens who are not in these groups.

Abrogate H1B. Trash it. Bring in a new program based on US needs that will help the country (not just politicians, CEOs and recruiters). MAGA.

---

You can throw out the tech industry then. We simply don't produce enough specialized engineers without immigration, not remotely. Certainly reforms are needed as I have discussed but when someone is talking about Cognizant and thinking that is what H-1s are all about it just shows they don't understand the issue. Might as well say we shouldn't allow in anyone from Mexico even if they are a highly educated entrepreneur because of MS13.

The key is stopping illegal immigration and abuse of the system not simply trying to stop all immigration. It's counterproductive and impractical to start. I've lost a ton of folks with PhD's and extensive experience in high demand technologies because of the system as it is because it is only marginally merit based. I'm all for dropping the hammer on the abusers and for stopping folks with joke degrees coming over and using those slots to undercut US labor.

This is also the mentality that is stopping TSMC from being able to get their chip plants up and running. They need to import a significant number of their folks from Taiwan to be able to keep the same quality. Over time that can change but for now it simply isn't possible to train up someone else to do some of the most complicated and precise engineering work imaginable (those circuits are basically at the atomic level). I mean do you think it's a bad thing that Toyota builds trucks in San Antonio vs Japan? Same mentality only it is a lot harder to make a 3nm chip than a pickup.

EclipseAg said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

The idea that simply because someone is here on H-1 or is Indian or Chinese or whatever and should be viewed negatively is just gross. The irony is how many of those same folks love Vivek or Kash Patel who are children of Indian immigrants. Most of them are family oriented and academically oriented and they assimilate well to the US.

---

It's not about hating people as individuals.

But en masse, immigration like we've seen over the past 20 years changes the very fabric of our society. There's no way to avoid it. Assimilation only gets you so far; the differences in culture, religion, background, history, etc., are too vast.

And when the newcomers outnumber the locals -- as they do now in so many communities -- it flips the playing field. THEY feel at home and you feel lost and out of place. The local culture becomes their culture.

Living in a community where immigrants are the majority has many drawbacks. There is no common language, culture, customs, community norms, holidays, etc. It manifests itself in many ways, and it gets exhausting.

I spent the weekend recently in a small town that to date has been spared the many "benefits" of mass immigration. There was a Christmas parade and everyone was saying "Merry Christmas" and greeting friends and neighbors, openly celebrating what once was a common shared experience across the country. It was so different from where I live ... like night and day.

---

Certainly there needs to be controls and other issues I've discussed above. That said what you are talking about has happened for as long as the US has existed. Go to Lavaca County and even 150 years after people came here it still has a strong Czech and German influence. There was a time that Boston had virtually no Irish. Chicago is basically a subdivision of old neighborhoods that had different ethnic groups. Most of those areas had many who didn't speak English or barely spoke English in the First Gen and then continued to assimilate over time.

The key is making sure that they also want to be Americans. If they want to come here and then colonize they can go home. If they want to come here and commit crimes they can be severely punished. Having an open spigot is also lunacy because you can't control it even if it is legal.

aggie93 said:

---

EclipseAg said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

The idea that simply because someone is here on H-1 or is Indian or Chinese or whatever and should be viewed negatively is just gross. The irony is how many of those same folks love Vivek or Kash Patel who are children of Indian immigrants. Most of them are family oriented and academically oriented and they assimilate well to the US.

---

It's not about hating people as individuals.

But en masse, immigration like we've seen over the past 20 years changes the very fabric of our society. There's no way to avoid it. Assimilation only gets you so far; the differences in culture, religion, background, history, etc., are too vast.

And when the newcomers outnumber the locals -- as they do now in so many communities -- it flips the playing field. THEY feel at home and you feel lost and out of place. The local culture becomes their culture.

Living in a community where immigrants are the majority has many drawbacks. There is no common language, culture, customs, community norms, holidays, etc. It manifests itself in many ways, and it gets exhausting.

I spent the weekend recently in a small town that to date has been spared the many "benefits" of mass immigration. There was a Christmas parade and everyone was saying "Merry Christmas" and greeting friends and neighbors, openly celebrating what once was a common shared experience across the country. It was so different from where I live ... like night and day.

---

Certainly there needs to be controls and other issues I've discussed above. That said what you are talking about has happened for as long as the US has existed. Go to Lavaca County and even 150 years after people came here it still has a strong Czech and German influence. There was a time that Boston had virtually no Irish. Chicago is basically a subdivision of old neighborhoods that had different ethnic groups. Most of those areas had many who didn't speak English or barely spoke English in the First Gen and then continued to assimilate over time.

The key is making sure that they also want to be Americans. If they want to come here and then colonize they can go home. If they want to come here and commit crimes they can be severely punished. Having an open spigot is also lunacy because you can't control it even if it is legal.

---

If I moved to India, got Indian citizenship and started eating curry, would I be Indian?

aggie93 said:

---

That said what you are talking about has happened for as long as the US has existed. Go to Lavaca County and even 150 years after people came here it still has a strong Czech and German influence. There was a time that Boston had virtually no Irish. Chicago is basically a subdivision of old neighborhoods that had different ethnic groups.

---

Of course.

But it's not 1890 any more.

EclipseAg said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

That said what you are talking about has happened for as long as the US has existed. Go to Lavaca County and even 150 years after people came here it still has a strong Czech and German influence. There was a time that Boston had virtually no Irish. Chicago is basically a subdivision of old neighborhoods that had different ethnic groups.

---

Of course.

But it's not 1890 any more.

---

There's also a VAST difference in immigration policies post 1965 than we had historically.

aggie93 said:

---

infinity ag said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

Nanomachines son said:

---

waitwhat? said:

---

Quote:

---

This has NOTHING to do with talent not available in the US. It has all to do with US companies wanting cheap labor and not wanting to help contribute to the US economy.

---

https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/62g-h1b-required-wage

Quote:

---

The H-1B employer must pay its H-1B worker(s) at least the "required" wage which is the higher of the prevailing wage or the employer's actual wage (in-house wage) for similarly employed workers.

---

H1B workers have to be paid a high wage by law. Companies don't save money by hiring them unless the company violates the law.

---

And virtually all of them violate the law in many different ways. It's a scam top to bottom.

---

I've been recruiting in tech for 30 years and hired hundreds of H-1's. I have not found this to be the case. I have hired some recently with packages of $500k. Most employers hire the most qualified, period. There are some insanely brilliant and talented H-1B's out there, a lot of them.

This article though is about Cognizant which is an outsourcing firm like Tata. It's a big black mark when I see a resume from places like that. They do abuse the system.

What we need is reform. First off H-1's should be merit and need based and not a lottery, that's never made sense. Second, companies that hire more than 25% of employees who are H-1s should be examined with a fine tooth comb to look for abuse. Places like Cognizant and Tata are overwhelmingly H-1s and once those folks get their Green Cards they get out. That is the type of thing we need to fix.

The idea that simply because someone is here on H-1 or is Indian or Chinese or whatever and should be viewed negatively is just gross. The irony is how many of those same folks love Vivek or Kash Patel who are children of Indian immigrants. Most of them are family oriented and academically oriented and they assimilate well to the US.

Just a lot of ignorance on this thread.

---

I don't expect you to spit on the plate you eat from.

Politicians, execs and recruiters like yourself make money with this runaway H1B scam.
Losers are the American citizens who are not in these groups.

Abrogate H1B. Trash it. Bring in a new program based on US needs that will help the country (not just politicians, CEOs and recruiters). MAGA.

---

You can throw out the tech industry then. We simply don't produce enough specialized engineers without immigration, not remotely. Certainly reforms are needed as I have discussed but when someone is talking about Cognizant and thinking that is what H-1s are all about it just shows they don't understand the issue. Might as well say we shouldn't allow in anyone from Mexico even if they are a highly educated entrepreneur because of MS13.

The key is stopping illegal immigration and abuse of the system not simply trying to stop all immigration. It's counterproductive and impractical to start. I've lost a ton of folks with PhD's and extensive experience in high demand technologies because of the system as it is because it is only marginally merit based. I'm all for dropping the hammer on the abusers and for stopping folks with joke degrees coming over and using those slots to undercut US labor.

This is also the mentality that is stopping TSMC from being able to get their chip plants up and running. They need to import a significant number of their folks from Taiwan to be able to keep the same quality. Over time that can change but for now it simply isn't possible to train up someone else to do some of the most complicated and precise engineering work imaginable (those circuits are basically at the atomic level). I mean do you think it's a bad thing that Toyota builds trucks in San Antonio vs Japan? Same mentality only it is a lot harder to make a 3nm chip than a pickup.

---

Or, novel concept, teach intelligent and competent American workers how to do it. There are millions out of work that are absolutely capable of being trained to do the job, especially the ones that don't absolutely require a degree..... teach them. Give the ones doing the training very temporary permits to work on the expansions, and force companies to train Americans.

I don't know why in this last 30 or so years we forgot how to apprentice and train people in this country. We gripe about a lack of skilled workers, but it's just an excuse to not train people and offshore the labor to maximize shareholder profits.

That works really well until the population stops being ablento buy your product because you shipped all the jobs overseas to avoid training people. We COULD start producing the engineers necessary as well, but we offer then no opportunity in the states.

Pookers said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

EclipseAg said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

The idea that simply because someone is here on H-1 or is Indian or Chinese or whatever and should be viewed negatively is just gross. The irony is how many of those same folks love Vivek or Kash Patel who are children of Indian immigrants. Most of them are family oriented and academically oriented and they assimilate well to the US.

---

It's not about hating people as individuals.

But en masse, immigration like we've seen over the past 20 years changes the very fabric of our society. There's no way to avoid it. Assimilation only gets you so far; the differences in culture, religion, background, history, etc., are too vast.

And when the newcomers outnumber the locals -- as they do now in so many communities -- it flips the playing field. THEY feel at home and you feel lost and out of place. The local culture becomes their culture.

Living in a community where immigrants are the majority has many drawbacks. There is no common language, culture, customs, community norms, holidays, etc. It manifests itself in many ways, and it gets exhausting.

I spent the weekend recently in a small town that to date has been spared the many "benefits" of mass immigration. There was a Christmas parade and everyone was saying "Merry Christmas" and greeting friends and neighbors, openly celebrating what once was a common shared experience across the country. It was so different from where I live ... like night and day.

---

Certainly there needs to be controls and other issues I've discussed above. That said what you are talking about has happened for as long as the US has existed. Go to Lavaca County and even 150 years after people came here it still has a strong Czech and German influence. There was a time that Boston had virtually no Irish. Chicago is basically a subdivision of old neighborhoods that had different ethnic groups. Most of those areas had many who didn't speak English or barely spoke English in the First Gen and then continued to assimilate over time.

The key is making sure that they also want to be Americans. If they want to come here and then colonize they can go home. If they want to come here and commit crimes they can be severely punished. Having an open spigot is also lunacy because you can't control it even if it is legal.

---

If I moved to India, got Indian citizenship and started eating curry, would I be Indian?

---

If you moved to Israel, stopped eating pork and shrimp, and cut off your foreskin, would you be Jewish?
Okay, now do Christianity. What, exactly, is the food, language, nationality, hairstyle, and clothing style that makes someone Christian?

Indian : American :: Jewish : Christian

There is neither Magic Soil NOR Magic Genetics for being American.

infinity ag said:

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Cruiser87 said:

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First, I have been against H-1B for 25+ years.

That said, I have hired a few and rejected many for lack of skills I'm looking for (IT security). I've also interviewed a lot of Americans, and they just don't have the necessary skills I need. Anybody can learn the skills I look for, so I don't personally think it's specialized.

Also, I'm in consulting, and some clients want particular locations. They like India more than U.S. when only cost is the factor.

---

I am not saying that you are wrong, but there are reasons.

1. If you can't find people with the necessary skills among all those CS grads, then you must be paying them peanuts. So they end up going elsewhere to be paid a fair wage, and you are left with the H1B monkeys who will dance to your tune at whatever you will pay them. "Can't fine Americans" is a load of bs that corps always use.

2. Companies have scammed the American people for decades leading Americans to move away from IT jobs as they think they will lose out to H1Bs anyway. So the pool is smaller than what it could have been.

Stop H1B. It will be short term pain but long term benefit for America and Americans.

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I work in IT as a Developer and Production Support. My white American born Citizen son wanted to become a developer like me, and I've pretty much talked him out of it and now he is interested in becoming an MRI tech and maybe a Radiologist like his mom. At my work, about all they hire anymore for Developers is Indians or some type of foreign Asian here on H1B, or they outsource the work to India...It's just crazy they say they can't find an American born person with the same skills with as many kids as our colleges pump out with IT degrees every year. I still have to train the H1B workers they hire, and I do a ton of training. I could just as easily train some white, black, or hispanic kid to do the same job just as well. It's not like Indians or Asians are the only people on earth capable of being great Developers.. I see so much racism and prejudice in the hiring and promotion process at my work because most of our management are Indians. The ones that aren't Indians or Asians are Minority women that got their jobs over more qualified candidates because of DEI.

About 3 years ago they literally opened all the management positions in our company for anyone to apply, and the current managers at that time, had to re-apply for their positions and compete with the other applicants. Most all of the White male managers got replaced by women, and of course none of the Asian or Indian managers lost their management positions at the time. It was the craziest, most racist and prejudice thing I've ever seen or heard of at a large corporation. A lot of people that were really great at their jobs and good managers got demoted to other positions because of DEI BS..

I, like many of the other American citizen born employees at this corporation had to start at lowly hourly positions like working in the NOC and then work our way up for years into the higher paying positions at the company like Developers, Network Engineers, Systems Analyst, etc, and these Indian Developers get hired right out of school in India with very little experience to our same positions. It's a bunch of BS...

Ag_of_08 said:

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aggie93 said:

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infinity ag said:

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aggie93 said:

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Nanomachines son said:

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waitwhat? said:

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Quote:

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This has NOTHING to do with talent not available in the US. It has all to do with US companies wanting cheap labor and not wanting to help contribute to the US economy.

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https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/62g-h1b-required-wage

Quote:

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The H-1B employer must pay its H-1B worker(s) at least the "required" wage which is the higher of the prevailing wage or the employer's actual wage (in-house wage) for similarly employed workers.

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H1B workers have to be paid a high wage by law. Companies don't save money by hiring them unless the company violates the law.

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And virtually all of them violate the law in many different ways. It's a scam top to bottom.

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I've been recruiting in tech for 30 years and hired hundreds of H-1's. I have not found this to be the case. I have hired some recently with packages of $500k. Most employers hire the most qualified, period. There are some insanely brilliant and talented H-1B's out there, a lot of them.

This article though is about Cognizant which is an outsourcing firm like Tata. It's a big black mark when I see a resume from places like that. They do abuse the system.

What we need is reform. First off H-1's should be merit and need based and not a lottery, that's never made sense. Second, companies that hire more than 25% of employees who are H-1s should be examined with a fine tooth comb to look for abuse. Places like Cognizant and Tata are overwhelmingly H-1s and once those folks get their Green Cards they get out. That is the type of thing we need to fix.

The idea that simply because someone is here on H-1 or is Indian or Chinese or whatever and should be viewed negatively is just gross. The irony is how many of those same folks love Vivek or Kash Patel who are children of Indian immigrants. Most of them are family oriented and academically oriented and they assimilate well to the US.

Just a lot of ignorance on this thread.

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I don't expect you to spit on the plate you eat from.

Politicians, execs and recruiters like yourself make money with this runaway H1B scam.
Losers are the American citizens who are not in these groups.

Abrogate H1B. Trash it. Bring in a new program based on US needs that will help the country (not just politicians, CEOs and recruiters). MAGA.

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You can throw out the tech industry then. We simply don't produce enough specialized engineers without immigration, not remotely. Certainly reforms are needed as I have discussed but when someone is talking about Cognizant and thinking that is what H-1s are all about it just shows they don't understand the issue. Might as well say we shouldn't allow in anyone from Mexico even if they are a highly educated entrepreneur because of MS13.

The key is stopping illegal immigration and abuse of the system not simply trying to stop all immigration. It's counterproductive and impractical to start. I've lost a ton of folks with PhD's and extensive experience in high demand technologies because of the system as it is because it is only marginally merit based. I'm all for dropping the hammer on the abusers and for stopping folks with joke degrees coming over and using those slots to undercut US labor.

This is also the mentality that is stopping TSMC from being able to get their chip plants up and running. They need to import a significant number of their folks from Taiwan to be able to keep the same quality. Over time that can change but for now it simply isn't possible to train up someone else to do some of the most complicated and precise engineering work imaginable (those circuits are basically at the atomic level). I mean do you think it's a bad thing that Toyota builds trucks in San Antonio vs Japan? Same mentality only it is a lot harder to make a 3nm chip than a pickup.

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Or, novel concept, teach intelligent and competent American workers how to do it. There are millions out of work that are absolutely capable of being trained to do the job, especially the ones that don't absolutely require a degree..... teach them. Give the ones doing the training very temporary permits to work on the expansions, and force companies to train Americans.

I don't know why in this last 30 or so years we forgot how to apprentice and train people in this country. We gripe about a lack of skilled workers, but it's just an excuse to not train people and offshore the labor to maximize shareholder profits.

That works really well until the population stops being ablento buy your product because you shipped all the jobs overseas to avoid training people. We COULD start producing the engineers necessary as well, but we offer then no opportunity in the states.

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Sorry but we just don't and you can't just produce them. It will take a massive change in our educational system and a couple decades, maybe. The US gets the best engineers in the world to come here. These aren't "let's go train someone" jobs. These are folks with Masters and PhD's in highly specialized and high demand skillsets. So that means the next Elon Musk. The next Jensen Huang. The next Lisa Su. On and on.

EclipseAg said:

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aggie93 said:

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That said what you are talking about has happened for as long as the US has existed. Go to Lavaca County and even 150 years after people came here it still has a strong Czech and German influence. There was a time that Boston had virtually no Irish. Chicago is basically a subdivision of old neighborhoods that had different ethnic groups.

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Of course.

But it's not 1890 any more.

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True, but you are talking about completely shutting off all immigration even for the most brilliant and qualified people with the most in demand skillsets we don't have here.

Reform is a desperately needed and illegal immigration needs to be stopped completely. Stopping all H-1's is freaking insane. I mean I suppose we don't need to let foreign actors be able to work here either, they are far less valuable than PhD's in Computer Engineering.

Pookers said:

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aggie93 said:

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EclipseAg said:

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aggie93 said:

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The idea that simply because someone is here on H-1 or is Indian or Chinese or whatever and should be viewed negatively is just gross. The irony is how many of those same folks love Vivek or Kash Patel who are children of Indian immigrants. Most of them are family oriented and academically oriented and they assimilate well to the US.

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It's not about hating people as individuals.

But en masse, immigration like we've seen over the past 20 years changes the very fabric of our society. There's no way to avoid it. Assimilation only gets you so far; the differences in culture, religion, background, history, etc., are too vast.

And when the newcomers outnumber the locals -- as they do now in so many communities -- it flips the playing field. THEY feel at home and you feel lost and out of place. The local culture becomes their culture.

Living in a community where immigrants are the majority has many drawbacks. There is no common language, culture, customs, community norms, holidays, etc. It manifests itself in many ways, and it gets exhausting.

I spent the weekend recently in a small town that to date has been spared the many "benefits" of mass immigration. There was a Christmas parade and everyone was saying "Merry Christmas" and greeting friends and neighbors, openly celebrating what once was a common shared experience across the country. It was so different from where I live ... like night and day.

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Certainly there needs to be controls and other issues I've discussed above. That said what you are talking about has happened for as long as the US has existed. Go to Lavaca County and even 150 years after people came here it still has a strong Czech and German influence. There was a time that Boston had virtually no Irish. Chicago is basically a subdivision of old neighborhoods that had different ethnic groups. Most of those areas had many who didn't speak English or barely spoke English in the First Gen and then continued to assimilate over time.

The key is making sure that they also want to be Americans. If they want to come here and then colonize they can go home. If they want to come here and commit crimes they can be severely punished. Having an open spigot is also lunacy because you can't control it even if it is legal.

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If I moved to India, got Indian citizenship and started eating curry, would I be Indian?

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No, but you could be accepted and become a valued asset to their country. Technically you would also be an Indian as well. Indian culture is also not one that has many immigrants nor is it built on immigrants like the US is.

Hey but my family came over from England in the 1600's and I have 2 Direct descendants that were a Captain and a Major in the Continental Army so I guess anyone after that should pack up and go home.

Now they are begging Elon.
Why does this guy think it is America's job to make him "enjoy" his "life dream"?

Dear @elonmusk,

Congratulations 🎉 on winning the election! It took you 10 years to obtain citizenship in the USA, including your undergraduate and master's studies. You moved to the US in 1992 and became a US citizen in 2002.

Please do justice for Indian-born H-1B visas. pic.twitter.com/xogaMjKeu8

— Sanjeev Ranjan (@loveyoumykids) November 7, 2024

aggie93 has a vested interest in H1B proliferating. I wish he would be honest about it though instead of fear-mongering.

He is okay with the decimation of America in the long term (he won't be around so he does not care) with uncontrolled immigration and cultural invasion. Some immigration is fine and okay but this is getting out of control. That is the issue, not just having a few good smart people come in. This is allowing the trash from countries like India enter and work here while Americans are pushed out not because they cannot do the job but because the economics do not work as the wages are pushed too far down.

aggie93 is being very dishonest about it by talking about the exception rather than the rule just for personal gain.

Anyway, he and I disagree completely.

I hope Trump abolished H1B completely as it is full of holes and can be gamed. Foolish naive Americans don't even see how they are being tricked. Trump should start a new program with airtight provisions so only the best and brightest come here. US is not the employment agency of the world. Just today I got a text from a former coworker who is now in India asking for help for his son who just completed his Masters in a US university. Getting a good CS job is hard enough for kids born here, my kid goes to a top 5 CS school and he is having a hard time being a US citizen. He has an offer but he wants one from the right places, he has no DEI working for him.

Trump likely will not get rid of it but I hope he does something. Let's see.

aggie93 said:

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EclipseAg said:

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aggie93 said:

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That said what you are talking about has happened for as long as the US has existed. Go to Lavaca County and even 150 years after people came here it still has a strong Czech and German influence. There was a time that Boston had virtually no Irish. Chicago is basically a subdivision of old neighborhoods that had different ethnic groups.

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Of course.

But it's not 1890 any more.

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True, but you are talking about completely shutting off all immigration even for the most brilliant and qualified people with the most in demand skillsets we don't have here.

Reform is a desperately needed and illegal immigration needs to be stopped completely. Stopping all H-1's is freaking insane. I mean I suppose we don't need to let foreign actors be able to work here either, they are far less valuable than PhD's in Computer Engineering.

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Isn't there a middle ground?

Let's allow the best and brightest to come here. But limit the numbers (the guys hanging around my local HEB waiting for Favor delivery orders aren't PhDs in computer engineering).

Stop chain migration. Crack down on people who overstay their visas.

We don't need 1.5 million legal immigrants every year, just so some company can save a little money on its IT salaries.

America is more than just an economic zone. We need to treat it that way.

EclipseAg said:

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aggie93 said:

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EclipseAg said:

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aggie93 said:

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That said what you are talking about has happened for as long as the US has existed. Go to Lavaca County and even 150 years after people came here it still has a strong Czech and German influence. There was a time that Boston had virtually no Irish. Chicago is basically a subdivision of old neighborhoods that had different ethnic groups.

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Of course.

But it's not 1890 any more.

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True, but you are talking about completely shutting off all immigration even for the most brilliant and qualified people with the most in demand skillsets we don't have here.

Reform is a desperately needed and illegal immigration needs to be stopped completely. Stopping all H-1's is freaking insane. I mean I suppose we don't need to let foreign actors be able to work here either, they are far less valuable than PhD's in Computer Engineering.

---

Isn't there a middle ground?

Let's allow the best and brightest to come here. But limit the numbers (the guys hanging around my local HEB waiting for Favor delivery orders aren't PhDs in computer engineering).

Stop chain migration. Crack down on people who overstay their visas.

We don't need 1.5 million legal immigrants every year, just so some company can save a little money on its IT salaries.

America is more than just an economic zone. We need to treat it that way.

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Most US citizens have completely bought into the propaganda of we are a "nation of immigrants". Its likely going to take a repeat of history (not even ancient history) before they figure out how disastrous this idea actually is.

It's funny seeing the Indians watch American Christmas traditions celebrating the birth of Christ when they worship millions of demons.

I went to look at Christmas lights in McKinney and Frisco this evening and they were rolling thirty deep and driving around in their teslas and the men wearing their weird shirt dress things.

Pookers said:

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EclipseAg said:

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aggie93 said:

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EclipseAg said:

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aggie93 said:

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That said what you are talking about has happened for as long as the US has existed. Go to Lavaca County and even 150 years after people came here it still has a strong Czech and German influence. There was a time that Boston had virtually no Irish. Chicago is basically a subdivision of old neighborhoods that had different ethnic groups.

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Of course.

But it's not 1890 any more.

---

True, but you are talking about completely shutting off all immigration even for the most brilliant and qualified people with the most in demand skillsets we don't have here.

Reform is a desperately needed and illegal immigration needs to be stopped completely. Stopping all H-1's is freaking insane. I mean I suppose we don't need to let foreign actors be able to work here either, they are far less valuable than PhD's in Computer Engineering.

---

Isn't there a middle ground?

Let's allow the best and brightest to come here. But limit the numbers (the guys hanging around my local HEB waiting for Favor delivery orders aren't PhDs in computer engineering).

Stop chain migration. Crack down on people who overstay their visas.

We don't need 1.5 million legal immigrants every year, just so some company can save a little money on its IT salaries.

America is more than just an economic zone. We need to treat it that way.

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Most US citizens have completely bought into the propaganda of we are a "nation of immigrants". Its likely going to take a repeat of history (not even ancient history) before they figure out how disastrous this idea actually is.

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This is true. And I have heard foreigners especially Indians shaming Americans about it. Just search about it online, they use it as a weapon to get in.

Quote:

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"Why are our visas being rejected? America is a nation of immigrants. Why are you so xenophobic?".

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Then comes the threat.

Quote:

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"If we x million stop our IT work, USA will grind to a halt".

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BS.

And also those US clowns who claim that the US high tech industry will collapse if we don't ship people in from abroad. These people lie that there is no American talent, so they can hire people from abroad for half the rate. These companies are welcome to move to Bangladesh if they so love those people.

McKinney Ag69 said:

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It's funny seeing the Indians watch American Christmas traditions celebrating the birth of Christ when they worship millions of demons.

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What a ridiculous and hateful thing to say. Is that what your pastor taught you?
Grow up.

EclipseAg said:

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aggie93 said:

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EclipseAg said:

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aggie93 said:

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That said what you are talking about has happened for as long as the US has existed. Go to Lavaca County and even 150 years after people came here it still has a strong Czech and German influence. There was a time that Boston had virtually no Irish. Chicago is basically a subdivision of old neighborhoods that had different ethnic groups.

---

Of course.

But it's not 1890 any more.

---

True, but you are talking about completely shutting off all immigration even for the most brilliant and qualified people with the most in demand skillsets we don't have here.

Reform is a desperately needed and illegal immigration needs to be stopped completely. Stopping all H-1's is freaking insane. I mean I suppose we don't need to let foreign actors be able to work here either, they are far less valuable than PhD's in Computer Engineering.

---

Isn't there a middle ground?

Let's allow the best and brightest to come here. But limit the numbers (the guys hanging around my local HEB waiting for Favor delivery orders aren't PhDs in computer engineering).

Stop chain migration. Crack down on people who overstay their visas.

We don't need 1.5 million legal immigrants every year, just so some company can save a little money on its IT salaries.

America is more than just an economic zone. We need to treat it that way.

---

That's essentially what I am saying.

infinity ag said:

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aggie93 has a vested interest in H1B proliferating. I wish he would be honest about it though instead of fear-mongering.

He is okay with the decimation of America in the long term (he won't be around so he does not care) with uncontrolled immigration and cultural invasion. Some immigration is fine and okay but this is getting out of control. That is the issue, not just having a few good smart people come in. This is allowing the trash from countries like India enter and work here while Americans are pushed out not because they cannot do the job but because the economics do not work as the wages are pushed too far down.

aggie93 is being very dishonest about it by talking about the exception rather than the rule just for personal gain.

Anyway, he and I disagree completely.

I hope Trump abolished H1B completely as it is full of holes and can be gamed. Foolish naive Americans don't even see how they are being tricked. Trump should start a new program with airtight provisions so only the best and brightest come here. US is not the employment agency of the world. Just today I got a text from a former coworker who is now in India asking for help for his son who just completed his Masters in a US university. Getting a good CS job is hard enough for kids born here, my kid goes to a top 5 CS school and he is having a hard time being a US citizen. He has an offer but he wants one from the right places, he has no DEI working for him.

Trump likely will not get rid of it but I hope he does something. Let's see.

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Are you actually reading my posts? I am saying Build a Wall, crack down hard on illegal immigration. Move to a merit based as opposed to a lottery system. Go hard against companies that abuse the system. I am talking about the highly qualified and in demand folks and you others are saying all or nothing.

BTW, you don't know me and I don't appreciate you calling me dishonest. In truth I personally benefit from stricter immigration. Why? I do recruiting. Recruiting is about supply and demand. If you take out the H-1's that makes the supply much, much tighter and thus creates more demand for people like myself who know how to find talent. I'd be very tempted to go back to hanging a shingle as a recruiting firm again and charging the crap out of companies because I know how to find good people. The worst situation for me is when the market is flooded and companies aren't hiring or don't need help hiring.

Of course you weren't reading my posts up to this point so I'm guessing you won't bother with that since you said "He is okay with the decimation of America in the long term (he won't be around so he does not care) with uncontrolled immigration and cultural invasion." because I think we should have merit based visas for people who have rare skillsets and who make strong 6 figures in the US that drive the tech industry.

I do understand the challenge of the job market and it's always hard for those without experience. Every time I open an AI job I get hundreds of apps (or thousands) but very few that actually have experience for instance. That's a tale as old as time. I do think we should limit student visas and promote more US citizens in Engineering and CS without question btw. Some schools have completely out of whack ratios of foreign students, far too many. When you look at Masters programs and PhD's it is even worse. I would guess for instance that many schools have 75 plus percent visa students in Graduate level CS programs. I'm all for limiting that.

ELIMINATE JOHN CORNYN HE ALLOWED ALL THESE H1B VISAS HES A DEMOCRAT IN RINO CLOTHING .\

Apparently the trucking industry is getting slammed with h2b visas atm. There's so many truckers freight is collapsing, but they had ~1500 h2b workers let in, with double that in 25.

This "truck driver" shortage is nonsense. The only shortage is in drivers who will work 70hrs a week for 40hrs a week in pay.

They talk about College Station and TAMU.

Yeah that industry has been dealing with that for several years, and the last 5 or so has been insane. I know quite a few folks that used to drive OTR.... theyve either hung it up, or managed to get in to moving extremely large/delicate freight that bypasses the brokerage system disaster and is very boutique.