IT Giant Favored H-1B Workers Over US Employees

9,748 Views | 101 Replies | Last: 11 days ago by Ag_of_08
infinity ag
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I am in the industry and have seen this scam played out over and over again by tech firms.
You want to operate in the US, you have to hire American workers. If not, go to India or China.
(I bet none of them will move to India or China, just like our liberals threatened with Trump won)

This has NOTHING to do with talent not available in the US. It has all to do with US companies wanting cheap labor and not wanting to help contribute to the US economy.

Trump should abolish H1B completely and institute a new program. For the next 3-4 years we don't need foreign workers at all. After that, pick only the best with stringent controls. Everyone and their moms and dads now come in as "IT workers". I have worked with idiots who called themselves "system administrators" and had never seen an admin console in their lives.


Insiders Tell How IT Giant Favored Indian H-1B Workers Over US Employees
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2024-cognizant-h1b-visas-discriminates-us-workers/
Quote:

By Eric Fan Coulter Jones Graphics by Kyle Kim December 9, 2024

Six months into her job, Latreecia Folkes had launched a new project and received a letter of praise from her supervisor. And then, she says, she was told to train her replacement on the project, a worker from India. She balked at that but was replaced anyway.
Over the next two years, Folkes said, she was repeatedly denied opportunities for advancement as a project manager at Cognizant Technology Solutions Corp., one of the world's largest information-technology outsourcing firms. She was offered chances to apply for roles that required her to relocate, but she couldn't because her mother was ill. Over time, her relationship with the company grew strained, and Folkes said she knows why.

"I definitely knew it was because of me being an American, not being Indian, and also because I was Black," she said in an interview. Folkes filed an internal discrimination complaint in 2017, three days before she was fired.

In October, a jury in a federal class-action lawsuit returned a verdict that found Cognizant intentionally discriminated against more than 2,000 non-Indian employees between 2013 and 2022. The verdict, which echoed a previously undisclosed finding from a 2020 US Equal Employment Opportunity Commission investigation, centered on discrimination claims based on race and national origin. Cognizant, based in Teaneck, New Jersey, was found to have preferred workers from India, most of whom joined the firm's US workforce of about 32,000 using skilled-worker visas called H-1Bs.

Quote:

The case is part of a wave of recent discrimination claims against IT outsourcing companies that underscore growing concerns that these firms have exploited a broken employment-visa system to secure a cheaper, more malleable workforce. In the process, US workers say they've been disadvantaged. The industry, which provides computer services to other companies, makes extensive use of H-1Bs; over the past decade and a half, no employer has obtained more of them than Cognizant, federal records show.
Cognizant spokesman Jeff DeMarrais said the company plans to appeal the verdict and disagrees with the EEOC finding. "Cognizant provides equal employment opportunities for all employees and does not tolerate discrimination in any form," he said. He also said the company has sought fewer new visas over the past several years and said any apparent disparities in its hiring stem from a shortage of US tech workers. "Like many consulting firms and other technology companies in the US, Cognizant utilizes the H-1B visa program to fill positions it cannot fill with available US workers," DeMarrais wrote in one of several emailed responses to questions from Bloomberg News.
Indeed, the H-1B program was designed to help US employers find specialized talent. But a decade's worth of records from the US Department of Labor shows that outsourcing companies, including Cognizant, have used the visas mostly to fill lower-level positions, such as IT system analysts and administrators. Fewer than 20% of the 6,400 visa holders Cognizant has sponsored since 2020 had a master's degree or higher, according to data from the US Citizenship and Immigration Services. At companies such as Amazon.com Inc., Apple Inc. and Meta Platforms Inc., that figure is about 60%.


Rex Racer
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AG
On the other hand, there have been times when the only workers I could get to accept our salary offers were H1-B Visa holders.

That has changed somewhat in recent times. I'm guessing the market for software developers has finally reached saturation.
CDUB98
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AG
Water is wet.
infinity ag
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Rex Racer said:

On the other hand, there have been times when the only workers I could get to accept our salary offers were H1-B Visa holders.

That is because you wanted to pay peanuts. So you ended up with H1B monkeys.
The Fall Guy
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AG
Because they work and not little biatches
Logos Stick
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It's also about discrimination in general, not just H1Bs. Indians discriminate against non-Indians. They also discriminate against each other.
CDUB98
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AG
The Fall Guy said:

Because they work and not little biatches
This is true.
CDUB98
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AG
Logos Stick said:

It's also about discrimination in general, not just H1Bs. Indians discriminate against non-Indians. They also discriminate against each other.
This is also true.
infinity ag
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Logos Stick said:

It's also about discrimination in general, not just H1Bs. Indians discriminate against non-Indians. They also discriminate against each other.

Well everyone discriminates against everyone. Talk to Leroy and Keshawn and they will tell you how Steve discriminates against them. Basic human nature.
Pookers
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AG
H1B visas are trash. Frisco might as well be a colony of India at this point.
Rex Racer
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AG
infinity ag said:

Rex Racer said:

On the other hand, there have been times when the only workers I could get to accept our salary offers were H1-B Visa holders.

That is because you wanted to pay peanuts. So you ended up with H1B monkeys.
It's not what I wanted to pay. It's what I could get approved. And those "monkeys" have ended up being very productive employees.
No Spin Ag
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American companies putting profits over patriotism? What's next, water being wet?
There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance. Hippocrates
Pookers
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AG
H1B simps prefer living in a free economic zone more than they care about their countrymen.
Nanomachines son
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The Fall Guy said:

Because they work and not little biatches


Doubt. I have seen the quality of work from these people and 20 of them can't equal one American.
AgGrad99
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AG
Pookers said:

H1B visas are trash. Frisco might as well be a colony of India at this point.
You should see North Austin/Suburbs.

They're putting in Indian markets in multiple spots, and play Bollywood movies at the local theatres. Pushpa 2 is currently out, if you're interested.
akm91
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AG
Pookers said:

H1B visas are trash. Frisco might as well be a colony of India at this point.
You have good ones and you have bad ones, just depends on who you source the talent from and what technology area you're in.

In the digital space, I've had really good H1B's from Sapient.
waitwhat?
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Quote:

This has NOTHING to do with talent not available in the US. It has all to do with US companies wanting cheap labor and not wanting to help contribute to the US economy.
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/62g-h1b-required-wage

Quote:

The H-1B employer must pay its H-1B worker(s) at least the "required" wage which is the higher of the prevailing wage or the employer's actual wage (in-house wage) for similarly employed workers.


H1B workers have to be paid a high wage by law. Companies don't save money by hiring them unless the company violates the law.
" 'People that read with pictures think that it's simply about a mask' - Dana Loesch" - Ban Cow Gas

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Big Tech IS the empire of lies

TEXIT
BCSWguru
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Surprised Trump didnt go after those in the first term.

We interviewed someone via Zoom and they had someone else sending them the answers. Have to weed them out big time.
Nanomachines son
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waitwhat? said:

Quote:

This has NOTHING to do with talent not available in the US. It has all to do with US companies wanting cheap labor and not wanting to help contribute to the US economy.
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/62g-h1b-required-wage

Quote:

The H-1B employer must pay its H-1B worker(s) at least the "required" wage which is the higher of the prevailing wage or the employer's actual wage (in-house wage) for similarly employed workers.


H1B workers have to be paid a high wage by law. Companies don't save money by hiring them unless the company violates the law.


And virtually all of them violate the law in many different ways. It's a scam top to bottom.
doubledog
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The Democrats are always looking for slave labor, just like the good old days.
infinity ag
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Nanomachines son said:

The Fall Guy said:

Because they work and not little biatches


Doubt. I have seen the quality of work from these people and 20 of them can't equal one American.

The good ones are very good. Like those from the IITs. Google's Sundar Pichai is one such. And Satya Nadella of Microsoft.

But the vast vast majority are trash as they are body shopped in by scammy companies using fake resumes. Those are the problem.

We, in America don't want the trash of the world. We want only the good ones.
infinity ag
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waitwhat? said:

Quote:

This has NOTHING to do with talent not available in the US. It has all to do with US companies wanting cheap labor and not wanting to help contribute to the US economy.
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/62g-h1b-required-wage

Quote:

The H-1B employer must pay its H-1B worker(s) at least the "required" wage which is the higher of the prevailing wage or the employer's actual wage (in-house wage) for similarly employed workers.


H1B workers have to be paid a high wage by law. Companies don't save money by hiring them unless the company violates the law.

Companies get around it and have loop holes. Don't be fooled.
Madagascar
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AG
They don't abide by this law. They find ways around it. E.g. finding a source that says the market rate is way lower than it is.
Madagascar
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AG
The additional point to consider about H1Bs is that because they are so desperate for sponsorship, they are willing to put up with way more workplace abuse than Americans who have the leverage of leaving because of their citizenship. H1Bs will say and do anything to keep their job making it much more like indentured servitude. This makes it hard for Americans to fight for better workplaces and higher wages in addition to the quality of everything most H1Bs work on being total ****e.

Also want to confirm what others have said, there are some Indians who are amazingly smart and great to work with. I'm happy to have them in our country. In addition to being the most intelligent, they are also the most humble in honing their skills which is not a common trait amongst Indians, especially men, imo.
wannaggie
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waitwhat? said:

Quote:

This has NOTHING to do with talent not available in the US. It has all to do with US companies wanting cheap labor and not wanting to help contribute to the US economy.
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/62g-h1b-required-wage

Quote:

The H-1B employer must pay its H-1B worker(s) at least the "required" wage which is the higher of the prevailing wage or the employer's actual wage (in-house wage) for similarly employed workers.


H1B workers have to be paid a high wage by law. Companies don't save money by hiring them unless the company violates the law.
It's all in how you look at it. Another way of describing the same fact is:
Companies have a known minimum wage they must pay H1B workers. As long as they meet that minimum the companies are free of legal inquiry or economic pressure. This is great if you hate free market capitalism and love government-imposed prices, because companies no longer have to dangle a job out there and raise the pay if it remains unfilled, nor do they have to negotiate with qualified job candidates who might ask for more compensation, more benefits, more flexible hours, more WFH. Instead, you just have to meet the federal standard in order to exit the market and lock in your workforce. Instead of job candidates saying "If you want me to leave my current employer and come to your company, I need an incentive", companies can just Ctrl-C Ctrl-V another internal H1B position and pay them the same as their other H1Bs or their citizens. And because that H1B worker can only stay here legally as long as they have a qualifying job, it also means the company can lock in that salary and not worry about hiring some American who is going to come back a year later and say, "I got a nice offer from our competitor. Shall I take it, or is there room for me to grow here?"

The H1B unbalances the constant ebb and flow of salary negotiation which is essential for a health free market. It creates a pressure for salaries to stay flat.

Let me ask this -- how many H1B CEOs are there?
We are constantly told that CEOs have a unique skill set and unique responsibility scope, and therefore there just aren't that many qualified execs out there, and therefore free-market low-supply and high-demand are the reason C-suites get 14,000,000/year in compensation. Hmm... so we have a job skill where there aren't enough qualified Americans to fill the positions, eh? And we have a visa program whose entire creation was based on [checks notes] job skills where there aren't enough qualified Americans to fill the positions.

samurai_science
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Pookers said:

H1B visas are trash. Frisco might as well be a colony of India at this point.
Cedar Park and Leander are as well
Sid Farkas
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AG
samurai_science said:

Pookers said:

H1B visas are trash. Frisco might as well be a colony of India at this point.
Cedar Park and Leander are as well


I (white dude) have been a minority in my town for +30 years. About half of the people are from East and South Asia. Most of them are first gen. My town is bad ass. The food is great. The people are great. Our schools are the best in the area. Violent crime is basically nonexistent. (Property crime rate is high high high because we're adjacent to bad neighborhoods in LA).

The west is depopulating. We need to figure out how to incentivize natural born citizens to have more kids…or create more areas like Frisco (and my town, Cerritos).
infinity ag
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You got to do both.


    • Make more babies.
    • Prevent foreign invasion.


  • If you think you will just focus on making more babies, that will never result in anything. UK and Europe in general are falling to Muslim immigration.

    Immigration in the US has gone from "we will allow the best and brightest in" to a self-righteous "we will allow in anyone who is facing any problem like human rights issues anywhere in the world".

    This allowed crooks and criminals to misuse the system to claim asylum.
    infinity ag
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    Madagascar said:

    The additional point to consider about H1Bs is that because they are so desperate for sponsorship, they are willing to put up with way more workplace abuse than Americans who have the leverage of leaving because of their citizenship. H1Bs will say and do anything to keep their job making it much more like indentured servitude. This makes it hard for Americans to fight for better workplaces and higher wages in addition to the quality of everything most H1Bs work on being total ****e.

    Also want to confirm what others have said, there are some Indians who are amazingly smart and great to work with. I'm happy to have them in our country. In addition to being the most intelligent, they are also the most humble in honing their skills which is not a common trait amongst Indians, especially men, imo.

    This is correct. I have seen many people complain about this but little they can do.

    H1B is a legal slavery system. It must go.
    infinity ag
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    About 15 years ago, I worked at a very famous fintech co. Almost everyone who invests has heard of it. I applied to an internal position and emailed HR asking for who the hiring manager was. I got an email back saying not to bother, it was not a real job, it was a listing posted "for immigration purposes". I should have kept the email and forwarded it to the DoJ. I am sure she was a rookie HR girl who didn't know this shouldn't be revealed.

    This is what companies, even famous ones do in the US to get slaves. This is a public company listed.
    backintexas2013
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    AG
    In the industry? You are retired living the good life so you aren't in the industry anymore. Well unless you weren't being truthful about being retired.
    The Kraken
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    AG
    AgGrad99 said:

    Pookers said:

    H1B visas are trash. Frisco might as well be a colony of India at this point.
    You should see North Austin/Suburbs.

    They're putting in Indian markets in multiple spots, and play Bollywood movies at the local theatres. Pushpa 2 is currently out, if you're interested.
    Sugar Land has you both beat.
    Fightin_Aggie
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    AG
    infinity ag said:

    Rex Racer said:

    On the other hand, there have been times when the only workers I could get to accept our salary offers were H1-B Visa holders.

    That is because you wanted to pay peanuts. So you ended up with H1B monkeys.


    Also H1B are normally minorities that fill DEI metrics

    Even though they are from countries where they are the majority


    Clown world
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    revvie
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    AG
    Rex Racer said:

    On the other hand, there have been times when the only workers I could get to accept our salary offers were H1-B Visa holders.

    That has changed somewhat in recent times. I'm guessing the market for software developers has finally reached saturation.
    Maybe you should consider moving your operations overseas. H1B is a sham the way it is being utilized.
    Rex Racer
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    AG
    revvie said:

    Rex Racer said:

    On the other hand, there have been times when the only workers I could get to accept our salary offers were H1-B Visa holders.

    That has changed somewhat in recent times. I'm guessing the market for software developers has finally reached saturation.
    Maybe you should consider moving your operations overseas. H1B is a sham the way it is being utilized.

    We don't even allow full time remote work! That's not happening. We don't offer H1-Bs less than we do our American workers. In fact ours have worked their way up to being some of our higher paid workers. And I haven't hired an H1-B in awhile because we started having too much work with export control requirements.

    And I have been fortunate enough lately to find Americans willing to work for the salaries we offer in recent years.

    That wasn't always the case.
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