Capitalism is the greatest economic system ever. But this **** isn't capitalism.

Refusing to believe that the old way has accelerated into.a deeper and deeper spiral, and the younger generation might actually be worse off than the ones that went before has been... effective?

AgLA06 said:

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My home was built in 1967. It doesn't look anything like I would like to renovate it to because I can't afford to do so.
Both our vehicles are paid off. My paid off truck was the only new vehicle I've ever owned.

We live in the same neighborhood as my parents. My mortgage is 5x theirs and I only bought 15 years after they did. My taxes represent that property increase. They are constantly asking us why we don't go on vacations or why we don't buy the kids more fun stuff. The answer is we don't have the money to do so. And they have no ability to see why.

The irony is the only reason they have disposable income is they started collecting SS on top of working. They would be broke otherwise as well. So they say the same tired cliches while taking government socialized checks and subsidized insurance that are the only difference in our situation.

---

That all is very admirable...it genuinely is. I would ask you the following questions in order to be able to understand why you think you situation is so dreary:

- What were your majors.....why is your combined income so low? My wife and I could never afford our first home/lifestyle if we were both education majors...that is why I ask.

- Apples to apples comparing to your parents' mortgage rate can vary due to a number of factors:

- What percentage of purchase price did they put down on their mortgage vs. yourself?
- Do they have the same mortgage as when they purchased or did they refinance when rates dipped? How does your rate compare to their rate when they bought their first home?
- Don't compare your home to their current home....compare your home to their first home.
- Is their property tax valuation frozen due to their age?
- Is their insurance rate a function of their long loss history and good credit?

I'm impressed you live in the same neighborhood you grew up in....most folks in my generation could never afford to do that.

And kudo's to your parents for continuing to work.

Ag_of_08 said:

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Refusing to believe that the old way has accelerated into.a deeper and deeper spiral, and the younger generation might actually be worse off than the ones that went before has been... effective?

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Refusing to believe that we are capable of comparing our early situations to those of our adult children.

Street Fighter said:

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The average house back then didn't have 3 bedrooms and 2.5 bathrooms, etc... either. And it isn't your concerns that destroy empathy . it's the incessant whining about it and believing you've been uniquely targeted to suffer.

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So build smaller houses? Not everyone is part of a married couple with 2.5 kids and a dog who like playing in the backyard, so maybe our housing stock should reflect modern demographics?

But no, we can't, because Boomer suburbanites are afraid of having a neighbor who doesn't live like they do because it will "hurt muh property value".

BonfireNerd04 said:

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But no, we can't, because Boomer suburbanites are afraid of having a neighbor who doesn't live like they do because it will "hurt muh property value".

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And they weren't wrong.

Want an affordable home? Houston is ground zero for once-desirable areas depressed by people who didn't live like the original owners.

Jeeper79 said:

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It's a bunch of mostly broke Millenial and Gen Z communists thinking they're so smart.

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As soon as you said Millenial and Gen Z I stopped.

Anything they rant about is worthless.

Zachary Klement said:

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Street Fighter said:

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The average house back then didn't have 3 bedrooms and 2.5 bathrooms, etc... either. And it isn't your concerns that destroy empathy . it's the incessant whining about it and believing you've been uniquely targeted to suffer.

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There's some give and take there, I suppose. Homes are certainly built with more bells and whistles, but the rise in price does not directly correlate with homes being 5x nicer or bigger or whatever.

And that's true, there are a lot of people that whine too much.

---

My grandparents lived in the same house from 1958 until they passed away 40 years later. Their mortgage in the 1980s was $100 a month and this was a nice home just off Shoreline Dr in Corpus Christi. Take a modern married couple over the last 20 or so years and total up how many times they purchase a new home, I'm just guessing and saying it would be 2-3 times with them using up equity to upgrade every time they purchase and an increase in mortgage payment.

AgLA06 said:

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Jeeper79 said:

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Maybe one of the problems is that these people are completely incapable of putting themselves in the shoes of corporate leadership. It's not a company's job to employ people. It's not even a company's job to pay them well. But a healthy labor market will ensure that people are paid what they're worth.

The argument that everyone should earn a living wage is actually BS. People should earn what they're worth. It's not a company's responsibility to pay someone more than what they're worth.

If you work somewhere and don't feel like you're making enough, go work somewhere else. If NOBODY is willing to pay you what you think you're worth then you need to have long hard look in the mirror and, if necessary, go do something to improve it.

---

This exact post is a perfect example. It's nothing except old cliches.

I've been looking for a new job for over a year. I've applied to hundreds. I've beyond networked and had a dozen great conversations that ultimately went nowhere. The most common response is we would like to hire you, but there's too much uncertainty. Or the budget wasn't improved.

70% of the country is in the same boat open to wanting a new job, but seeing little way to get one. This isn't 1980 where you could apply to a posting in the paper and get an interview. I haven't received a single positive response from a single cold application during that time. I've networked with managers and even exec level at many of the companies I targeted and applied. None have any ability to push me because most can't even find out who the hiring manager is. HR control over the hiring process has drastically changed job searching.

---

Thats because we're on the cusp of a new recession but that's cyclical. It was only a couple years ago where the opposite was true.

The poverty rate for the past 50 years has stayed in a relatively tight range. If not for the financial crisis 15 years ago, we'd actually be slightly down over the past 20 years.

Sorry you're struggling. I've been there myself. But it's anecdotal.

Communists

Quote:

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Has the average income 5x'd in that timeframe?

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When I graduated from Engineering (with a Master's), I made 30,000
When my son graduated from Economics (Bachelor's), he made 100,000.

Not quite 5x, but a hell of alot more.

Plus, once they buy a house, if they stay there, that payment won't go up but their income will. Interest rates when I graduated were around 8-9%. Today it's 6.945%.

The median income for an econ degree can't be more than $65k out of college. Not saying you are lying but that is a bad small sample.

texagbeliever said:

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The median income for an econ degree can't be more than $65k out of college. Not saying you are lying but that is a bad small sample.

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Holy hell. Just looked it up.
College simply

Quote:

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Economics (Bachelor's Degree) $46,000

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Don't know how accurate THAT is, but I'm sure you are way more correct on average income.

Science Denier said:

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texagbeliever said:

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The median income for an econ degree can't be more than $65k out of college. Not saying you are lying but that is a bad small sample.

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Holy hell. Just looked it up.
College simply

Quote:

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Economics (Bachelor's Degree) $46,000

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Yeah I would have guessed 50k but wanted to be generous.

Also, when I was "growing up" we voted for Reagan. Between Obama and Biden, voters have totally ****ed themselves. Many of those *****ing voted for one or both of these.

You get what you vote for. Maybe Trump can start to undo the **** those two have done.

Zachary Klement said:

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A lot of misguided ideas on that sub, but why do conservatives on here take an issue with criticisms of the nature of capitalism in our country? It seems as if any sort of questioning of our current system is considered to be anti-conservative or bad by many around here when it is clear our system is far from infallible.

Also, why do people here take issue with complaints from Gen-Z/Millennials about the dramatic difference in today's reality versus years ago?

In 1980, the average home cost $76,000. In 2023, the average home cost $511,000. Has the average income 5x'd in that timeframe? Nope. The cost of education has risen exponentially, so has the cost of rent, and damn near everything else. The average person graduating from college in 2024 is going to have a much harder time purchasing a home than the average person in 1980. Each generation faces unique challenges of plights…I don't get why people on here mock people my age because they are upset they can't afford a home because they all cost half a million dollars.

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That is capitalism perverted by corrupt banking practices.

Gold standard
END The FED and IRS
Deregulation until 75% of .gov is eliminated
.....
PROFIT

Sure, it's perfectly possible.. but not if the subject doing so refuses to look at percentages and actual impacts.

Walking around yelling "traditiiiiiion!!", pulling the back in my day/boot strap argument is not being honest in a comparison. Refusing to admit that so much of the policy we call conservative or capitalist is actually very much not is also not honest.

Petrino1 said:

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Im a minority POC in my 30's, grew up with a low income single mom who emphasized education and hard work. I crossed the million dollar net worth (zero home equity) a few months ago with zero help from my parents, after graduating college with student loan + credit card debt. I was able to achieve success here because I worked my butt off, made smart financial decisions, paid off debt, and saved/invested a large percentage of my salary every month consistently over a long period of time.

Becoming a millionaire in your 30's is basically impossible in Europe or any other country around the world unless you were born with rich parents. I thank God everyday I was born in the US, and capitalism is the best economic system in the world.

---

How are kids supposed to do that while keeping up with the latest iphone release, playing new video games every month, eating out, and partying on the weekends?


Most younger Americans are just lazy and entitled and use to the soft life their parents gave them growing up. They want their life handed to them on a silver platter. News flash: It's not gonna happen. You have to work hard like this poster here did. Then you can eat your cake.

Also, voting has consequences. Youth have been voting left for quite awhile now and (newsflash) - leftist policies aren't really great for poor people! The right isn't always better but at least their is some amount of understanding of proper economic policies on their side and a desire by many to fix our problems.

When the youth stop whining about the environment, abortion, MJ, etc and start whining about the cost of car insurance or interest rates then you have someone at least thinking about the most important problems to worry about.

HollywoodBQ said:

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Zachary Klement said:

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A lot of misguided ideas on that sub, but why do conservatives on here take an issue with criticisms of the nature of capitalism in our country? It seems as if any sort of questioning of our current system is considered to be anti-conservative or bad by many around here when it is clear our system is far from infallible.

Also, why do people here take issue with complaints from Gen-Z/Millennials about the dramatic difference in today's reality versus years ago?

In 1980, the average home cost $76,000. In 2023, the average home cost $511,000. Has the average income 5x'd in that timeframe? Nope. The cost of education has risen exponentially, so has the cost of rent, and damn near everything else. The average person graduating from college in 2024 is going to have a much harder time purchasing a home than the average person in 1980. Each generation faces unique challenges of plights…I don't get why people on here mock people my age because they are upset they can't afford a home because they all cost half a million dollars.

---

What are you talking about home price average being half a million?

In California maybe but even then, there are all kinds of homes in the IE and the Central Valley for far less.

I see new homes in Texas for $200k all day long. Even existing homes for $300k on Galveston Island.

Also, I just got done getting a req approved to hire an entry level employee in the Central time zone. The least amount I can pay is $60k.

---

And what type of income can you expect to earn in the central valley, which is mostly farming with very low aggregate wages?

Those homes in Texas you see for $200k are generally either older homes, or you are talking about a master planned development with one of those signs that says "homes from the $200's!". What they don't tell you is that out of the 100 houses they build in that development, 1 may be a $200k home. The rest are not.

Those houses on Galveston are $300k because the insurance is so expensive they can't price them like they do other places. Assuming you can get it insured anyway, which isn't always the case.

BonfireNerd04 said:

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Street Fighter said:

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The average house back then didn't have 3 bedrooms and 2.5 bathrooms, etc... either. And it isn't your concerns that destroy empathy . it's the incessant whining about it and believing you've been uniquely targeted to suffer.

---

So build smaller houses? Not everyone is part of a married couple with 2.5 kids and a dog who like playing in the backyard, so maybe our housing stock should reflect modern demographics?

But no, we can't, because Boomer suburbanites are afraid of having a neighbor who doesn't live like they do because it will "hurt muh property value".

---

If you see a market opportunity, jump on it and achieve fame and fortune as a tiny home developer.

That would appeal to people like my sister who is an avowed single dog lady who is looking for something in the $150k price range.

In the 1970s they had duplexes for this purpose. I don't know if anybody is developing those today.

It does look like there are a couple of tiny home subdivisions in Texas.

Here's one in Willis (near Conroe). It looks like their houses are actually trailers that have been dressed up. But nobody is living in trailers today either.
https://majestichillstinyhomes.com/about/

Side note - when they tried building tiny homes in North Hollywood to address "affordable housing" in LA, the houses still wound up coming out to $700k which was more expensive than a condo. Especially in NoHo.

And if you really wanted to go for it, you could buy your own lot (which I realize is easier said than done due to the way banks lend money for vacant property) and build a pre-fab home on it.

When I first moved to LA back in 2004, the guy who lived next door to me bought a lot on the side of a mountain in Malibu and was dropping a $150,000 pre-fab home on it.

A quick Google search says that you can even buy a pre-fab tiny home from Home Depot for $40,000.

Some of these prefab homes are pretty wild.


Bottom line - there are complainers and there are problem solvers.

schmellba99 said:

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HollywoodBQ said:

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Zachary Klement said:

---

A lot of misguided ideas on that sub, but why do conservatives on here take an issue with criticisms of the nature of capitalism in our country? It seems as if any sort of questioning of our current system is considered to be anti-conservative or bad by many around here when it is clear our system is far from infallible.

Also, why do people here take issue with complaints from Gen-Z/Millennials about the dramatic difference in today's reality versus years ago?

In 1980, the average home cost $76,000. In 2023, the average home cost $511,000. Has the average income 5x'd in that timeframe? Nope. The cost of education has risen exponentially, so has the cost of rent, and damn near everything else. The average person graduating from college in 2024 is going to have a much harder time purchasing a home than the average person in 1980. Each generation faces unique challenges of plights…I don't get why people on here mock people my age because they are upset they can't afford a home because they all cost half a million dollars.

---

What are you talking about home price average being half a million?

In California maybe but even then, there are all kinds of homes in the IE and the Central Valley for far less.

I see new homes in Texas for $200k all day long. Even existing homes for $300k on Galveston Island.

Also, I just got done getting a req approved to hire an entry level employee in the Central time zone. The least amount I can pay is $60k.

---

And what type of income can you expect to earn in the central valley, which is mostly farming with very low aggregate wages?

Those homes in Texas you see for $200k are generally either older homes, or you are talking about a master planned development with one of those signs that says "homes from the $200's!". What they don't tell you is that out of the 100 houses they build in that development, 1 may be a $200k home. The rest are not.

Those houses on Galveston are $300k because the insurance is so expensive they can't price them like they do other places. Assuming you can get it insured anyway, which isn't always the case.

---

People do it. Even during the Scamdemic, Fresno was pretty busy.
But I'm more familiar with The Inland Empire where people do drive a long way to get to work.

Frankly, with Work From Home these days, the options are limitless.

As far as older homes, I just sold my 1947 built 1,250 sq. ft. mansion in LA and bought a 1940 built home in Galveston that is a lot nicer and cost a lot less money. I was able to keep the same job with a very minor salary reduction offset by not having to pay Governor Newsom any longer. I really wanted a 1900 Storm Survivor house but the wife wouldn't go for it.

You're definitely right about the flood insurance, wind insurance, etc. in Galveston. That crap is ridiculous.

Lots of places have gone up in price tremendously, that's for certain. College Station, Waco (locals blame Chip & Joanna), Austin (obviously). But you could still buy a reasonably priced house in lots of places around Texas. I was seriously considering Lake Belton.

In my line of work, all that really matters is that I have a reliable internet connection and I can get to an airport without too much trouble. As much as I'd love to live in the Davis Mountains for example, it's just not really practical from a work travel standpoint.

AgLA06 said:

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My home was built in 1967. It doesn't look anything like I would like to renovate it to because I can't afford to do so.
Both our vehicles are paid off. My paid off truck was the only new vehicle I've ever owned.

We live in the same neighborhood as my parents. My mortgage is 5x theirs and I only bought 15 years after they did. My taxes represent that property increase. They are constantly asking us why we don't go on vacations or why we don't buy the kids more fun stuff. The answer is we don't have the money to do so. And they have no ability to see why.

The irony is the only reason they have disposable income is they started collecting SS on top of working. They would be broke otherwise as well. So they say the same tired cliches while taking government socialized checks and subsidized insurance that are the only difference in our situation.

---

Bro, I feel for you regarding the job search.

The economy has been sucking since the Dems drove it off a cliff to get Trump in 2020. Don't get me wrong, lots of Republicans helped them do it.

Count me in the group who would like to change jobs but are kind of riding it out until the next economic upswing.

Good call on the paid off vehicles. My fleet is 2020, 2001 and 1999 and I only owe a few bucks on the 2020. I'd pay it off but it's at 3.4% interest so there's really no point to doing so.

Frankly, I can't imagine living in the same neighborhood as my parents. But good for you.

I think this is an area where a lot of young people go wrong (not saying this is you). A lot of young people grew up in a neighborhood and feel entitled to keep living there. Without really taking into consideration the fact that their parents are usually 20-25 years older and have literally a generation of working and saving headstart.

I saw this in Austin when people were reluctant to move out to Pflugerville, WillCo, Hutto, Cedar Park, etc. In LA especially where people who grew up in Burbank, Glendale, Pasadena, Sherman Oaks, etc. couldn't imagine living anywhere else but the reality is, most of them didn't get the kinds of jobs that would allow them to do overcome the increase in housing prices associated with the desirability of those neighborhoods.

Where I lived in LA, yeah, your dad might have been a set painter or a carpenter or a computer repair guy but if you want to live there, you better be a doctor, nurse, lawyer, etc.

You can still make a nice life for yourself and your family, it just might be a little further down the road. Los Angeles County is an extreme example where 20 miles down the road might be an hour away.

And by the way, if you think I wasn't broke for a long time, you'd be mistaken. There were times between 2008 - 2016 where I didn't know if I'd have $10 left over at the end of the month.

One last point that you raised about your parents still working but collecting SS.

I have a Corps buddy (Zip Ol' Lady) who used to work at an automobile factory in rural Indiana. He told me that the culture at that plant was that the grandfather would work there until he died - preferably at work. So the son might also work at the same plant. But, the grandkids would have to move away because there weren't any jobs for them in the town - because grandpa wouldn't retire.

So the point here is, old people continuing to work, often times, exacerbates the problem of young people not being able to find a decent paying job locally.

Jeeper79 said:

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AgLA06 said:

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Jeeper79 said:

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Maybe one of the problems is that these people are completely incapable of putting themselves in the shoes of corporate leadership. It's not a company's job to employ people. It's not even a company's job to pay them well. But a healthy labor market will ensure that people are paid what they're worth.

The argument that everyone should earn a living wage is actually BS. People should earn what they're worth. It's not a company's responsibility to pay someone more than what they're worth.

If you work somewhere and don't feel like you're making enough, go work somewhere else. If NOBODY is willing to pay you what you think you're worth then you need to have long hard look in the mirror and, if necessary, go do something to improve it.

---

This exact post is a perfect example. It's nothing except old cliches.

I've been looking for a new job for over a year. I've applied to hundreds. I've beyond networked and had a dozen great conversations that ultimately went nowhere. The most common response is we would like to hire you, but there's too much uncertainty. Or the budget wasn't improved.

70% of the country is in the same boat open to wanting a new job, but seeing little way to get one. This isn't 1980 where you could apply to a posting in the paper and get an interview. I haven't received a single positive response from a single cold application during that time. I've networked with managers and even exec level at many of the companies I targeted and applied. None have any ability to push me because most can't even find out who the hiring manager is. HR control over the hiring process has drastically changed job searching.

---

Thats because we're on the cusp of a new recession but that's cyclical. It was only a couple years ago where the opposite was true.

The poverty rate for the past 50 years has stayed in a relatively tight range. If not for the financial crisis 15 years ago, we'd actually be slightly down over the past 20 years.

Sorry you're struggling. I've been there myself. But it's anecdotal.

---

I honestly think this is one of the reasons my generation has really struggled.

Graduated in 06 with a degree in Architecture
Landed a job from one of my internships with a top 5 firm in the state.
Right about the time first big promotions happen, bust of 08/09.
Moved over to the construction management side.
Got an MBA and went into O&G (subsea) in January 2013 for project / business management.
O&G bust of 14/15
Took a promotion to Operations Director of a portfolio of small business.
Covid shutdown / bust 2020. We didn't get a single PO for almost 8 months.
Finally worked my way up to COO, but our industry has been one of the hardest hit by Covid. We're just now getting back to Pre-Covid numbers (which is why I have been looking). Definitely no raises and running extremely lean with me pitching in and taking on everything I can from accounting to logistics.
And it really hasn't been much better since with another bust constantly looming the last year or so.


People can keep discounting what I'm saying, a person can get the solid degrees and do everything right, but get F'ed by timing in a career. My compensation is well below what someone on my track has historically seen from bust after bust and little opportunities for even normal yearly raises.

I'm not going to go through all of that, but here's the highlights.

Me: Architecture undergrad, MBA grad. Some grad school loans that are extremely minor in our monthly budget.
Wife : 2 degrees in education paired with higher level certs for Special Ed. She started her own company 2 years ago working with children with severe learning disabilities. She does better than a teacher. About what an administrator makes, but for herself. No school loans.

We put down 20% on a 2.5% 15 year mortgage.
My parents put 3% down on a 3%ish mortgage.

The bail all businesses out, over supercharge investment government (both parties) policy has apparently driven the same houses to a 500% value increase in 15 years. Hence everyone expects a crash.

We're not poor from the outside looking in. But there's no denying the last 5 years has drastically impacted our financial standing and it nothing we've done. My wife and I are light years better handling finances than either of our parents.

I'm rounding, but were sitting where many like us are right now. We're sitting around $500K between houses equity and assets. That again in retirement investments, but cash poor and struggling to make the monthly note. That's the reality of salary staying the same for 5 years and costs going up substantially during that time.

Man, that sucks.

My bust / mortgage story starts with the 2007 Writers Strike and the 2008 Subprime crash.

Once I figured out how much it was really going to cost me to live in Australia, I wanted to unloaded my California house but, by that point, I was $200,000 underwater.
I just kept paying and eventually made it all back but those were some lean years.

Pre-Subprime crash, I bought in near the peak. What was funny in a way was the folks I knew who had bought their houses in LA anywhere from 5-15 years earlier. Nevermind my computer repair friend who bought his house 30 years earlier.

When a lot of these folks bought in, it was for $150k or $250k before the prices went through the roof.

Apparently the best time to have bought a house in SoCal was after the 1994 Northridge Earthquake.

I think things will be looking up in the new year. Hang in there.

And if it makes you feel any better, my youngest daughter had an Engineering job working in SoCal for $70k/yr. She did the math and figured out that she'd be at least 50 y/o before she could even think about owning a house. Meanwhile her USAF friend stationed in Pensacola already bought a house. So my daughter bailed out of California on her own, a month before I did last year.