Why did Biden give a $6.6 billion loan to Rivian? Rivian is a public company (RIVN). The excuse is that Rivian wanted to build factories in Georgia. Rivian is free to build whatever they want, but it is on them to come up with the money, not to get the Dept of Energy to give them taxpayer money. Take out a business loan if you want the money.

This proves that US is a pseudo-capitalist country and we operate in pseudo free markets. This is just propaganda to fool people, many of those fools are TexAggers who are corporate boot-lickers (hoping to be CEOs one day, but never will). The 2008 bail outs to banks also proved that.

Let's admit that there is no free market anywhere. Government moves in and out as they wish and gives random excuses for doing so.

The key point is that Corporations do not exist only for shareholders. They exist for taxpayers and nation building too. If they can get such benefits from tax payers, we can also look upon them to be good citizens and help the country out looking beyond mere dollars and cents. Long term relationship building is important, why would anyone cut any slack to selfish people who are always in for themselves instead of collective good?

If they threaten to take jobs off-shore, they can F off and not come back. How many corporations want to operate from Bangladesh? I will bet the number is ZERO. Go ahead, make my day.



Elon Musk's DOGE partner Vivek Ramaswamy says they'll scrutinize $6.6 billion Biden loan to Tesla rival Rivian
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/elon-musk-doge-partner-vivek-131329979.html

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Donald Trump's designated government efficiency co-czar, Vivek Ramaswamy, signaled his intention to scrutinize a loan granted by the Biden administration to EV manufacturer Rivian, (RIVN) a rival of Tesla (TSLA).

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Ramaswamy, the founder of several biotech firms collectively known as the "Vants," is due to take charge of the quasi-official Department of Government Efficiency, or DOGE, once Trump is sworn in. Together with DOGE co-leader Elon Musk, CEO of Tesla, their task is to radically reduce the size of the U.S. government by slashing regulations, sacking federal employees and eliminating waste in the system with a goal of lopping $2 trillion from the budget.

They have already pointed to spending earmarked for the Corporation for Public Broadcasting and Planned Parenthood, two organizations long targeted by Republicans, as a starting point for cuts. This could now extend to Rivian as well.

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"Biden is forking over $6.6 billion to EV-maker Rivian to build a Georgia plant they've already halted," he posted on Thursday. "One 'justification' is the 7,500 jobs it creates, but that implies a cost of $880k/job, which is insane. This smells more like a political shot across the bow at Elon Musk and Tesla."

The loan would go to financing the construction of Rivian's second factory, where it is expected to eventually build the R2 family of mid-size Rivians, positioned below the electric R1T pickup truck and R1S sport utility vehicle. In March, Rivian founder and CEO RJ Scaringe delayed construction to conserve cash.
There are reasons this loan could be viewed as political in nature. Helping build a financially ailing Tesla rival into a serious EV competitor would weaken Musk, who played a key role in evicting the Democrats from all branches of government this month. Indeed the Democratic governor of California conspicuously snubbed Tesla from a new state plan to extend EV subsidies to car buyers.

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Biden administration doing its best to wreck the country on their way out

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The Rivian loan, which is reportedly contingent on the company not actively opposing union organizing efforts at the facility, would enable the company to complete construction of the Atlanta-area plant, which has the support of Georgia's Republican Gov. Brian Kemp.

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Looks like payback to the auto unions

Rivian Loan Union Contingency

It seems highly controversial that Elon can challenge an industry rival through a government entity.

Are you really a true industry rival when it's basically a coin flip on whether you'll still be operating in the next 18 months?

Yup

Terrible optics. So many other places to start...

Illinois is giving Rivian $830M as well. So that's $7.4B of tax payer money given to Rivian by Democrats to chase EV unicorns with extremely sketchy ROI.

RafterAg223 said:

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Are you really a true industry rival when it's basically a coin flip on whether you'll still be operating in the next 18 months?

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Regardless, I don't think DOGE was created to go after competitors of Tesla.

It was made to audit the government, trim fat and reduce the deficit by eliminating inefficiencies.

It's one thing if Tesla/Musk appealed for someone to look into the loan. It's another to use HIS new government entity to outright challenge it.

This just seems straight up corrupt.

ReturnOfTheAg said:

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It seems highly controversial that Elon can challenge an industry rival through a government entity.

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He's challenging the Biden DOE

captkirk said:

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ReturnOfTheAg said:

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It seems highly controversial that Elon can challenge an industry rival through a government entity.

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He's challenging the Biden DOE

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Regarding an industry rival.

There are far, far more important things to tackle. This seems extremely self-serving use of DOGE. No matter how you shake it.

Objectively, there is certainly conflict of interest here which is unfortunate because that loan is idiocy and shouldn't be happening.

ReturnOfTheAg said:

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It seems highly controversial that Elon can challenge an industry rival through a government entity.

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They started it.

ReturnOfTheAg said:

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captkirk said:

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ReturnOfTheAg said:

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It seems highly controversial that Elon can challenge an industry rival through a government entity.

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He's challenging the Biden DOE

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Regarding an industry rival.

There are far, far more important things to tackle. This seems extremely self-serving use of DOGE. No matter how you shake it.

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They're looking at everything, even leftist boondoggles like this. Are you afraid it will uncover more Dem corruption?

Terrible first step and optics. We don't need this **** right from the start. Talk about making it easy for the media to wrote a narrativa that suites them… Not saying it shouldnt be looked at but this just stinks of BS any way you slice it regardless of political affiliation.

ReturnOfTheAg said:

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RafterAg223 said:

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Are you really a true industry rival when it's basically a coin flip on whether you'll still be operating in the next 18 months?

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Regardless, I don't think DOGE was created to go after competitors of Tesla.

It was made to audit the government, trim fat and reduce the deficit by eliminating inefficiencies.

It's one thing if Tesla/Musk appealed for someone to look into the loan. It's another to use HIS new government entity to outright challenge it.

This just seems straight up corrupt.

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Are you attempting to associate Donald Trump with corrupt business practices?

Bayou City said:

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Terrible first step and optics. We don't need this **** right from the start. Talk about making it easy for the media to wrote a narrativa that suites them… Not saying it shouldnt be looked at but this just stinks of BS any way you slice it regardless of political affiliation.

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If DOGE doesn't examine Dem payoffs to unions and other interests there won't be much for DOGE to look into. This is exactly why DOGE was created. Stopping garbage deals like this, Solyndra and many others. Boo hoo if the increasingly irrelevant msm gets their panties in a bunch.

93MarineHorn said:

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ReturnOfTheAg said:

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captkirk said:

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ReturnOfTheAg said:

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It seems highly controversial that Elon can challenge an industry rival through a government entity.

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He's challenging the Biden DOE

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Regarding an industry rival.

There are far, far more important things to tackle. This seems extremely self-serving use of DOGE. No matter how you shake it.

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They're looking at everything, even leftist boondoggles like this. Are you afraid it will uncover more Dem corruption?

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Notice how I never said I had issue with the loan being scrutinized

My issue is with it coming from Elon via a government entity he now oversees, with a goal of trimming $2 Trillion from the deficit and they're looking into $6 billion going to his direct competitor.

Again, there a FAR more important things to be looked into. The optics make it seem like he's trying to monopolize Tesla.

Could someone please tell me how a Rivian, an automobile the middle-class could never afford, be given 6.6B loan (which in all likelihood will be forgiven) to open a plant in the "baby blue" state of Georgia, would ever benefit the middle-class people of any of the other 49 states?

ReturnOfTheAg said:

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93MarineHorn said:

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ReturnOfTheAg said:

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captkirk said:

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ReturnOfTheAg said:

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It seems highly controversial that Elon can challenge an industry rival through a government entity.

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He's challenging the Biden DOE

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Regarding an industry rival.

There are far, far more important things to tackle. This seems extremely self-serving use of DOGE. No matter how you shake it.

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They're looking at everything, even leftist boondoggles like this. Are you afraid it will uncover more Dem corruption?

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Notice how I never said I had issue with the loan being scrutinized

My issue is with it coming from Elon via a government entity he now oversees, with a goal of trimming $2 Trillion from the deficit and they're looking into $6 billion going to his direct competitor.

Again, there a FAR more important things to be looked into. The optics make it seem like he's trying to monopolize Tesla.

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If DOGE can show it's a corrupt/bad deal I don't have a problem with it. Again, this is ONE of a plethora of things DOGE is looking in to and is probably a prime example of Dem/FedGov corruption that should be stopped.

I want to hear from those champions of capitalism here.

Why is the Govt giving corporate entities loans? Are the banks dead?

If you cannot explain this, then stop talking about how a corporation's job is to make money for the shareholder and nothing else. Corps are sleazy and want privileges and no responsibility. Rivian should be allowed to die if they cannot figure out their strategy. I am sure 'x' % of the loan went into the pockets of the slimy execs running Rivian as "reward" for getting them the loan.

They shouldn't be getting a loan. Our government shouldn't bail out companies just like they shouldn't bail out individuals.

backintexas2013 said:

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They shouldn't be getting a loan. Our government shouldn't bail out companies just like they shouldn't bail out individuals.

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It would be one thing if this was critical infrastructure or had strategic security importance but it's neither. While Rivian is a cool concept, it's nothing more than that and wasting $7B on them is simply left wing party favors.

Not that Republicans don't do the same thing but Biden spending as much as he can before he leaves office is criminal.

infinity ag said:

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I want to hear from those champions of capitalism here.

Why is the Govt giving corporate entities loans? Are the banks dead?

If you cannot explain this, then stop talking about how a corporation's job is to make money for the shareholder and nothing else. Corps are sleazy and want privileges and no responsibility. Rivian should be allowed to die if they cannot figure out their strategy. I am sure 'x' % of the loan went into the pockets of the slimy execs running Rivian as "reward" for getting them the loan.

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Why do you assume capitalists actually support this type of loan?

And the banks aren't dead - they just aren't interested in making bad loans unlike democrats.

And I'm all for doge going after this loan. I don't care about optics anymore - Democrats don't play fair so why should anybody else? So long as it's in the best interest of America as a whole I don't care.

javajaws said:

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infinity ag said:

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I want to hear from those champions of capitalism here.

Why is the Govt giving corporate entities loans? Are the banks dead?

If you cannot explain this, then stop talking about how a corporation's job is to make money for the shareholder and nothing else. Corps are sleazy and want privileges and no responsibility. Rivian should be allowed to die if they cannot figure out their strategy. I am sure 'x' % of the loan went into the pockets of the slimy execs running Rivian as "reward" for getting them the loan.

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Why do you assume capitalists actually support this type of loan?

And the banks aren't dead - they just aren't interested in making bad loans unlike democrats.

And I'm all for doge going after this loan. I don't care about optics anymore - Democrats don't play fair so why should anybody else? So long as it's in the best interest of America as a whole I don't care.

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So much this. Well said, Java.

Worried about "OPTICS" because the world is dominated by idiots instead of corruption.

"yes it's corruption but they shouldn't go after that corruption" is Olympic-level gymnastics of the brain

infinity ag said:

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I want to hear from those champions of capitalism here.

Why is the Govt giving corporate entities loans? Are the banks dead?

If you cannot explain this, then stop talking about how a corporation's job is to make money for the shareholder and nothing else. Corps are sleazy and want privileges and no responsibility. Rivian should be allowed to die if they cannot figure out their strategy. I am sure 'x' % of the loan went into the pockets of the slimy execs running Rivian as "reward" for getting them the loan.

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I found one defending nationalist socialist policies:

"The key point is that Corporations do not exist only for shareholders. They exist for taxpayers and nation building too. If they can get such benefits from tax payers, we can also look upon them to be good citizens and help the country out looking beyond mere dollars and cents. Long term relationship building is important, why would anyone cut any slack to selfish people who are always in for themselves instead of collective good?"

Wait, it's you!

Let's not forget, this loan is to help Rivian build the plant that was announced in 2021!!!!!!!!!

Tesla has taken the same kind of loans from the federal government. For example, they took a half billion dollar loan to help build their Fremont plant in California.

If Rivian isn't going to use the funds, they should return the loan. But DOGE shouldn't be involved here and Vivek making the loan political is not a good look

Did the Tesla one have the same union stipulation? I honestly don't know

Bayou City said:

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Terrible first step and optics. We don't need this **** right from the start. Talk about making it easy for the media to wrote a narrativa that suites them… Not saying it shouldnt be looked at but this just stinks of BS any way you slice it regardless of political affiliation.

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This isn't a DOGE issue - this is Dems pallet dropping $ to a Tesla rival in their lame duck period as a "screw you" to Elon.

The "optics" come from the left wing spin from yahoo… who's been known for their left propaganda takes from prior to the Trump era.

If you fall for this, you're going to be Reeeeee'ing for years.

captkirk said:

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Biden administration doing its best to wreck the country on their way out

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They're just continuing what they've been doing

akm91 said:

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The Rivian loan, which is reportedly contingent on the company not actively opposing union organizing efforts at the facility, would enable the company to complete construction of the Atlanta-area plant, which has the support of Georgia's Republican Gov. Brian Kemp.

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Looks like payback to the auto unions

Rivian Loan Union Contingency

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Breaking campaign finance laws perhaps?

Tesla's ATVM loan 2010 - repaid 2013
Ford's ATVM loan 2009 - repaid 2022
Rivian's ATVM loan conditional commitent not final

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While this conditional commitment indicates DOE's intent to finance the project, DOE and the company must satisfy certain technical, legal, environmental, and financial conditions before the Department enters into definitive financing documents and funds the loan.

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List of DOE LPO Portfolio Projects