BigRobSA said:

---

GE said:

---

Jeeper79 said:

---

rgvag11 said:

---

https://www.foxbusiness.com/video/6364963029112

I bet he's wrong. Many people will be disputing that.

---

Tariffs, in and of themselves, are ALWAYS inflationary. It's kind of the whole point of tariffs… make things more expensive on purpose to affect behavioral changes. If they're not inflationary then they didn't work.

---

Depends on how you use them. If Europe has 100% tariff on Ford and GM but we have no tariff on Mercedes and BMW then tariff Europe until they remove their tariff on Ford and GM.

---

They're still inflationary.

---

Still sticking to your to your ideology after I warned you for two years about the dangers of coupling our manufacturing so tightly to China.......and COVID proved me right?

It always amazes me how some people are so wrapped up in their culture of choice that even after they are proven disastrously wrong and admit it, they go right back to it just like an addict.

Eso si, Que es said:

---

I agreed with this 6 years ago because the American consumer does pay the tariff.

But Trump proved to me he knows how to effectively use tariffs and the threat of tariffs. He is trying to make our manufacturing more robust and decrease dependency on Chyna for anything he can.

I support the bludgeoning of our foes and rebuilding manufacturing in America that rebuilds towns and communities full of people that are like minded. And I am willing to pay more for it if I must.

---

Like most of us on here, complaining about "INFLATION!!!!" is nothing more than tribal politics at its finest. For most in the true middle class and higher, the tears cried about inflation were crocodile tears at best. If a few hundred bucks more in gas and groceries cripples you to the point that your life if truly changed, you've made some poor choices in life and now need to make better ones.

As can be seen by all of your stars, people have no problem paying more for everything, so long as it's for the reasons they support. No different than liberals the past four years and it looks like no different for many a republican the next four years. As you said, "like-minded" goes along way in how one sees there being less in the bank accounts,

Gas and groceries will not be affected by inflation.

Those are two things America now produces itself.

It's cheap tv's phones, and electronics.

Pharmaceutical production and medical equipment needs to come back to the US. As COVID showed those are strategic national resources.

BusterAg said:

---

BigRobSA said:

---

GE said:

---

Jeeper79 said:

---

rgvag11 said:

---

https://www.foxbusiness.com/video/6364963029112

I bet he's wrong. Many people will be disputing that.

---

Tariffs, in and of themselves, are ALWAYS inflationary. It's kind of the whole point of tariffs… make things more expensive on purpose to affect behavioral changes. If they're not inflationary then they didn't work.

---

Depends on how you use them. If Europe has 100% tariff on Ford and GM but we have no tariff on Mercedes and BMW then tariff Europe until they remove their tariff on Ford and GM.

---

They're still inflationary.

---

So is low unemployment.

---

Trump had some great UE numbers before, and inflation was normal/low. It wasn't until he started handing out money that it started creeping up and then Biden "won"* and turned the economic stupidity to eleventy, bringing us to where we are today.

Gut spending
Gut regulations
Drill baby drill
Gut taxes

Govt interference is what drove certain mfg away, get govt the **** out of things, not more into things.

LOYAL AG said:

---

This argument assumes there will be tariffs. Trump has been clear that he is using them to leverage American companies to return production to the states to create jobs. If those companies do that their products won't face tariffs.

Having said Wal Mart and Amazon are the kings of "Made in China" so I'm confident he sees tariffs on Chinese products as a threat to his business and he's right.

Then you have the reduction in energy costs that will come from his focus on reducing to cost of production of oil and gas which is deflationary. That will to some degree offset potential tariffs.

---

Centralized planning doesn't work, comrade.

Ags4DaWin said:

---

BigRobSA said:

---

GE said:

---

Jeeper79 said:

---

rgvag11 said:

---

https://www.foxbusiness.com/video/6364963029112

I bet he's wrong. Many people will be disputing that.

---

Tariffs, in and of themselves, are ALWAYS inflationary. It's kind of the whole point of tariffs… make things more expensive on purpose to affect behavioral changes. If they're not inflationary then they didn't work.

---

Depends on how you use them. If Europe has 100% tariff on Ford and GM but we have no tariff on Mercedes and BMW then tariff Europe until they remove their tariff on Ford and GM.

---

They're still inflationary.

---

Still sticking to your to your ideology after I warned you for two years about the dangers of coupling our manufacturing so tightly to China.......and COVID proved me right?

It always amazes me how some people are so wrapped up in their culture of choice that even after they are proven disastrously wrong and admit it, they go right back to it just like an addict.

---

Yes, I'm sticking to being a fiscal conservative.

I've never supported the govt pushing mfg out of the country, let alone to China, so I have no clue what the **** you're even babbling about.

Tariffs are, by their very nature, a bad...liberal...fiscal "weapon". Even when done by a "Republican".

Get govt out of the way, not more into it.

Regardless of party in power, govt couldn't count its tits twice and get the right number.

Lolol

Ypu and I went back and forth on tariffs for several years. Thats cool if you have selective memory.

ANY Tariffs need to be the little brother to things like

1) Regulation reduction
2) tax reduction
3) energy production
4) Improved automation/innovation
5) deporting illegals.
6) trade deal renegotiation
7) Union busting
8) tariffs

That list in THAT order makes tariffs useful and palatable and very effective

Strict protection are measures ALONE and as the major player never work but should not be ruled out as part of a cohesive economic plan.

Ah, yes. A CEO almost as in bed with China as Joe Biden.

Ags4DaWin said:

---

Gas and groceries will not be affected by inflation.

Those are two things America now produces itself.

It's cheap tv's phones, and electronics.

Pharmaceutical production and medical equipment needs to come back to the US. As COVID showed those are strategic national resources.

---

Meh, Americans can get a "side hustle" (doesn't it sound so cool) if they want things they can't afford. It'm sure many of our parents, and some of us, did the exact same thing when there were things out of our price range.

Americans aren't entitled to low prices; they've just been spoiled by them. They'll be fine, or not, but that'll be on them.

I completely agree about pharmaceutical and medical equipment needing to come back. I hope every company that left our country to make more profits via cheap labor in other countries come back to our country. It may cost Americans more, but, again, that'll just help push them do make more in ways they either refused to do or didn't know about. Mother necessity needs to come back.

Ags4DaWin said:

---

I agree with you here 100%.

ANY Tariffs need to be the little brother to things like

1) Regulation reduction
2) Improved automation/innovation
3) energy production
4) deporting illegals.
5) tax reduction
6) Union busting
7) tariffs

That list in THAT order makes tariffs useful and palatable

Strict protection are measures ALONE and as the major player never work.

---

Yep. We need a multi-layered approach here. If Trump can't get 1 through 6 done with any significance then his tariff strategy will bite him in the ass. People want and are expecting relief come Jan 20. The initial pain of what we need to do will not be tolerated for long.

Detmersdislocatedshoulder said:

---

Bazooka Joe said:

---

What, now we're worried about inflation???

---

and it's literally coming from the sane people who promised you it was transitory

---

I wouldn't call them SANE...

It's not like the tariffs ever went away. Biden actually kept them in place and even added some tariffs.

The Biden administration has kept most of the Trump administration tariffs in place, and in May 2024, announced tariff hikes on an additional $18 billion of Chinese goods, including semiconductors and electric vehicles, for an additional tax increase of $3.6 billion.

https://taxfoundation.org/research/all/federal/tariffs/

GE said:

---

Jeeper79 said:

---

rgvag11 said:

---

https://www.foxbusiness.com/video/6364963029112

I bet he's wrong. Many people will be disputing that.

---

Tariffs, in and of themselves, are ALWAYS inflationary. It's kind of the whole point of tariffs… make things more expensive on purpose to affect behavioral changes. If they're not inflationary then they didn't work.

---

Depends on how you use them. If Europe has 100% tariff on Ford and GM but we have no tariff on Mercedes and BMW then tariff Europe until they remove their tariff on Ford and GM.

---

You're missing the point. That only works because tariffs are inflationary. You're basically trying to leverage inflation against inflation, but it's still inflation.

halfastros81 said:

---

Maybe inflationary for short to mid term and maybe not over the long term. Also perhaps just the threat of the tariff levels the playing field for domestic producers

---

No, always inflationary - short, medium and long term.

Ags4DaWin said:

---

BigRobSA said:

---

GE said:

---

Jeeper79 said:

---

rgvag11 said:

---

https://www.foxbusiness.com/video/6364963029112

I bet he's wrong. Many people will be disputing that.

---

Tariffs, in and of themselves, are ALWAYS inflationary. It's kind of the whole point of tariffs… make things more expensive on purpose to affect behavioral changes. If they're not inflationary then they didn't work.

---

Depends on how you use them. If Europe has 100% tariff on Ford and GM but we have no tariff on Mercedes and BMW then tariff Europe until they remove their tariff on Ford and GM.

---

They're still inflationary.

---

Youre reading too far into this…

Still sticking to your to your ideology after I warned you for two years about the dangers of coupling our manufacturing so tightly to China.......and COVID proved me right?

It always amazes me how some people are so wrapped up in their culture of choice that even after they are proven disastrously wrong and admit it, they go right back to it just like an addict.

---

No Spin Ag said:

---

Ags4DaWin said:

---

Gas and groceries will not be affected by inflation.

Those are two things America now produces itself.

It's cheap tv's phones, and electronics.

Pharmaceutical production and medical equipment needs to come back to the US. As COVID showed those are strategic national resources.

---

Meh, Americans can get a "side hustle" (doesn't it sound so cool) if they want things they can't afford. It'm sure many of our parents, and some of us, did the exact same thing when there were things out of our price range.

Americans aren't entitled to low prices; they've just been spoiled by them. They'll be fine, or not, but that'll be on them.

---

Proof that MAGA is cool with painful government regulation as long as it comes from the right mouth.

halfastros81 said:

---

But what if those tariffs were used towards the positive goal of balancing the federal budget as opposed to feeding government bloat. I know they are a drop in the bucket compared to federal spending but if they accomplish the goal of leveling the playing field for domestic producers and reducing the deficit it's a different thing imo.

I'm all for fair trade and if international producers are just outperforming us with no unfair advantages then so be it but if they are manipulating markets that's a different thing. Free trade on a level playing field is optimal… no argument there.

---

But they weren't.

No Spin Ag said:

---

Eso si, Que es said:

---

I agreed with this 6 years ago because the American consumer does pay the tariff.

But Trump proved to me he knows how to effectively use tariffs and the threat of tariffs. He is trying to make our manufacturing more robust and decrease dependency on Chyna for anything he can.

I support the bludgeoning of our foes and rebuilding manufacturing in America that rebuilds towns and communities full of people that are like minded. And I am willing to pay more for it if I must.

---

Like most of us on here, complaining about "INFLATION!!!!" is nothing more than tribal politics at its finest. For most in the true middle class and higher, the tears cried about inflation were crocodile tears at best. If a few hundred bucks more in gas and groceries cripples you to the point that your life if truly changed, you've made some poor choices in life and now need to make better ones.

As can be seen by all of your stars, people have no problem paying more for everything, so long as it's for the reasons they support. No different than liberals the past four years and it looks like no different for many a republican the next four years. As you said, "like-minded" goes along way in how one sees there being less in the bank accounts,

---

Ridiculous.

Inflation is a monetary phenomenon. If the FED is providing monetary stimulus at the same time the government is providing fiscal stimulus, you get massive inflation.. exactly what we saw over the last 4 years. I personally blame the FED. But IF the Fed is going to do what they did, the government can't then shovel cash into economy at the same time. That's not just idiotic, its a complete void of economic understanding.

And to your second paragraph, if people didn't mind paying more, they would have elected Kamala. This election was a mandate against the fiscal central governance of the current administration. People are tired of paying more. But you also fail to understand that inflation doesn't affect everyone the same. The lower and middles class is being CRUSHED because energy, housing, and food.. the areas where inflation hit the hardest, are a much larger portion of their income than the wealthy elite. And they don't have the exposure to investments in the things benefitting inflation like the wealthy do.

Tariffs last year brought in 80 Billion dollars last year.

For example, given the value of goods imports during FY2023 ($3.12 trillion), an across-the-board 70 percent tariff would be required to replace the equivalent revenue raised by the individual income tax under the overly simplistic assumption that consumers, producers, and our trading partners would have made no changes to their behavior in response to the tariffs.

No Spin Ag said:

---

Ags4DaWin said:

---

Gas and groceries will not be affected by inflation.

Those are two things America now produces itself.

It's cheap tv's phones, and electronics.

Pharmaceutical production and medical equipment needs to come back to the US. As COVID showed those are strategic national resources.

---

Meh, Americans can get a "side hustle" (doesn't it sound so cool) if they want things they can't afford. It'm sure many of our parents, and some of us, did the exact same thing when there were things out of our price range.

Americans aren't entitled to low prices; they've just been spoiled by them. They'll be fine, or not, but that'll be on them.

I completely agree about pharmaceutical and medical equipment needing to come back. I hope every company that left our country to make more profits via cheap labor in other countries come back to our country. It may cost Americans more, but, again, that'll just help push them do make more in ways they either refused to do or didn't know about. Mother necessity needs to come back.

---

Americans vote on prices. Always have. Why the **** do you think every time in history inflation has gotten over 2% the political parties shift and new people are elected? Because 2% is the amount people are willing to be taxed, as long as their wages are rising at a comparable or better level.

Jeeper79 said:

---

GE said:

---

Jeeper79 said:

---

rgvag11 said:

---

https://www.foxbusiness.com/video/6364963029112

I bet he's wrong. Many people will be disputing that.

---

Tariffs, in and of themselves, are ALWAYS inflationary. It's kind of the whole point of tariffs… make things more expensive on purpose to affect behavioral changes. If they're not inflationary then they didn't work.

---

Depends on how you use them. If Europe has 100% tariff on Ford and GM but we have no tariff on Mercedes and BMW then tariff Europe until they remove their tariff on Ford and GM.

---

You're missing the point. That only works because tariffs are inflationary. You're basically trying to leverage inflation against inflation, but it's still inflation.

---

If we tariff them and then remove the tariff once they agree to remove their tariffs on American made cars, then we are in a better position overall compared to status quo, even if prices temporarily go up until they're taken off.

Heineken-Ashi said:

---

No Spin Ag said:

---

Eso si, Que es said:

---

I agreed with this 6 years ago because the American consumer does pay the tariff.

But Trump proved to me he knows how to effectively use tariffs and the threat of tariffs. He is trying to make our manufacturing more robust and decrease dependency on Chyna for anything he can.

I support the bludgeoning of our foes and rebuilding manufacturing in America that rebuilds towns and communities full of people that are like minded. And I am willing to pay more for it if I must.

---

Like most of us on here, complaining about "INFLATION!!!!" is nothing more than tribal politics at its finest. For most in the true middle class and higher, the tears cried about inflation were crocodile tears at best. If a few hundred bucks more in gas and groceries cripples you to the point that your life if truly changed, you've made some poor choices in life and now need to make better ones.

As can be seen by all of your stars, people have no problem paying more for everything, so long as it's for the reasons they support. No different than liberals the past four years and it looks like no different for many a republican the next four years. As you said, "like-minded" goes along way in how one sees there being less in the bank accounts,

---

Ridiculous.

Inflation is a monetary phenomenon. If the FED is providing monetary stimulus at the same time the government is providing fiscal stimulus, you get massive inflation.. exactly what we saw over the last 4 years. I personally blame the FED. But IF the Fed is going to do what they did, the government can't then shovel cash into economy at the same time. That's not just idiotic, its a complete void of economic understanding.

And to your second paragraph, if people didn't mind paying more, they would have elected Kamala. This election was a mandate against the fiscal central governance of the current administration. People are tired of paying more. But you also fail to understand that inflation doesn't affect everyone the same. The lower and middles class is being CRUSHED because energy, housing, and food.. the areas where inflation hit the hardest, are a much larger portion of their income than the wealthy elite. And they don't have the exposure to investments in the things benefitting inflation like the wealthy do.

---

Good points. Thanks for taking the time and effort to explain it as well as you did.

I guess, even if we (on here) can afford it, we can still hope for prices to go down for those who can't afford the higher prices. Time will tell if prices go down, for their sake, at least.

Ags4DaWin said:

---

BigRobSA said:

---

GE said:

---

Jeeper79 said:

---

rgvag11 said:

---

https://www.foxbusiness.com/video/6364963029112

I bet he's wrong. Many people will be disputing that.

---

Tariffs, in and of themselves, are ALWAYS inflationary. It's kind of the whole point of tariffs… make things more expensive on purpose to affect behavioral changes. If they're not inflationary then they didn't work.

---

Depends on how you use them. If Europe has 100% tariff on Ford and GM but we have no tariff on Mercedes and BMW then tariff Europe until they remove their tariff on Ford and GM.

---

They're still inflationary.

---

Still sticking to your to your ideology after I warned you for two years about the dangers of coupling our manufacturing so tightly to China.......and COVID proved me right?

It always amazes me how some people are so wrapped up in their culture of choice that even after they are proven disastrously wrong and admit it, they go right back to it just like an addict.

---

How did covid supposedly prove you right?

You realize that if we had high tariffs during Covid, we would have been in even worse shape, right?

No Spin Ag said:

---

Heineken-Ashi said:

---

No Spin Ag said:

---

Eso si, Que es said:

---

I agreed with this 6 years ago because the American consumer does pay the tariff.

But Trump proved to me he knows how to effectively use tariffs and the threat of tariffs. He is trying to make our manufacturing more robust and decrease dependency on Chyna for anything he can.

I support the bludgeoning of our foes and rebuilding manufacturing in America that rebuilds towns and communities full of people that are like minded. And I am willing to pay more for it if I must.

---

Like most of us on here, complaining about "INFLATION!!!!" is nothing more than tribal politics at its finest. For most in the true middle class and higher, the tears cried about inflation were crocodile tears at best. If a few hundred bucks more in gas and groceries cripples you to the point that your life if truly changed, you've made some poor choices in life and now need to make better ones.

As can be seen by all of your stars, people have no problem paying more for everything, so long as it's for the reasons they support. No different than liberals the past four years and it looks like no different for many a republican the next four years. As you said, "like-minded" goes along way in how one sees there being less in the bank accounts,

---

Ridiculous.

Inflation is a monetary phenomenon. If the FED is providing monetary stimulus at the same time the government is providing fiscal stimulus, you get massive inflation.. exactly what we saw over the last 4 years. I personally blame the FED. But IF the Fed is going to do what they did, the government can't then shovel cash into economy at the same time. That's not just idiotic, its a complete void of economic understanding.

And to your second paragraph, if people didn't mind paying more, they would have elected Kamala. This election was a mandate against the fiscal central governance of the current administration. People are tired of paying more. But you also fail to understand that inflation doesn't affect everyone the same. The lower and middles class is being CRUSHED because energy, housing, and food.. the areas where inflation hit the hardest, are a much larger portion of their income than the wealthy elite. And they don't have the exposure to investments in the things benefitting inflation like the wealthy do.

---

Good points. Thanks for taking the time and effort to explain it as well as you did.

I guess, even if we (on here) can afford it, we can still hope for prices to go down for those who can't afford the higher prices. Time will tell if prices go down, for their sake, at least.

---

Correct.

The issue that most don't understand is that we have a FED that can only control the monetary side - the amount of liquidity in circulation and the status of their own balance sheet that gets it that way. Vs a government that can only control the fiscal side - how much the government spends and how to finance that spending.

When the FED is loose, it is by nature inflationary. This might not be recognizable at times if the government is tight (rare) or if productivity in the economy is high enough that it actually deflates against the monetary inflation (2011-2020).

When the FED is loose and the government goes EXTREME to the loose end, at the same time that the government is increasing regulations and keeping a high tax burden, the effects are limiting to supply but EXTREMELY inflationary to demand. Price can go only skyrocket. That's exactly what happened after COVID. And the people rightfully revolted against the administration in charge.

We are likely going to have flat or loose monetary going forward. We NEED a tight government that gets out of the way as much as possible. That means severely slashing spending and regulations while lowering taxes. That would stimulate the economy and allow supply to rise up and meet high demand created by current monetary policy. I think that's what Trump is intending, though I'm still a bit skeptical.

GE said:

---

Jeeper79 said:

---

GE said:

---

Jeeper79 said:

---

rgvag11 said:

---

https://www.foxbusiness.com/video/6364963029112

I bet he's wrong. Many people will be disputing that.

---

Tariffs, in and of themselves, are ALWAYS inflationary. It's kind of the whole point of tariffs… make things more expensive on purpose to affect behavioral changes. If they're not inflationary then they didn't work.

---

Depends on how you use them. If Europe has 100% tariff on Ford and GM but we have no tariff on Mercedes and BMW then tariff Europe until they remove their tariff on Ford and GM.

---

You're missing the point. That only works because tariffs are inflationary. You're basically trying to leverage inflation against inflation, but it's still inflation.

---

If we tariff them and then remove the tariff once they agree to remove their tariffs on American made cars, then we are in a better position overall compared to status quo, even if prices temporarily go up until they're taken off.

---

That only works because… and I know this will blow your mind…

Tariffs are inflationary.

Heineken-Ashi said:

---

No Spin Ag said:

---

Heineken-Ashi said:

---

No Spin Ag said:

---

Eso si, Que es said:

---

I agreed with this 6 years ago because the American consumer does pay the tariff.

But Trump proved to me he knows how to effectively use tariffs and the threat of tariffs. He is trying to make our manufacturing more robust and decrease dependency on Chyna for anything he can.

I support the bludgeoning of our foes and rebuilding manufacturing in America that rebuilds towns and communities full of people that are like minded. And I am willing to pay more for it if I must.

---

Like most of us on here, complaining about "INFLATION!!!!" is nothing more than tribal politics at its finest. For most in the true middle class and higher, the tears cried about inflation were crocodile tears at best. If a few hundred bucks more in gas and groceries cripples you to the point that your life if truly changed, you've made some poor choices in life and now need to make better ones.

As can be seen by all of your stars, people have no problem paying more for everything, so long as it's for the reasons they support. No different than liberals the past four years and it looks like no different for many a republican the next four years. As you said, "like-minded" goes along way in how one sees there being less in the bank accounts,

---

Ridiculous.

Inflation is a monetary phenomenon. If the FED is providing monetary stimulus at the same time the government is providing fiscal stimulus, you get massive inflation.. exactly what we saw over the last 4 years. I personally blame the FED. But IF the Fed is going to do what they did, the government can't then shovel cash into economy at the same time. That's not just idiotic, its a complete void of economic understanding.

And to your second paragraph, if people didn't mind paying more, they would have elected Kamala. This election was a mandate against the fiscal central governance of the current administration. People are tired of paying more. But you also fail to understand that inflation doesn't affect everyone the same. The lower and middles class is being CRUSHED because energy, housing, and food.. the areas where inflation hit the hardest, are a much larger portion of their income than the wealthy elite. And they don't have the exposure to investments in the things benefitting inflation like the wealthy do.

---

Good points. Thanks for taking the time and effort to explain it as well as you did.

I guess, even if we (on here) can afford it, we can still hope for prices to go down for those who can't afford the higher prices. Time will tell if prices go down, for their sake, at least.

---

Correct.

The issue that most don't understand is that we have a FED that can only control the monetary side - the amount of liquidity in circulation and the status of their own balance sheet that gets it that way. Vs a government that can only control the fiscal side - how much the government spends and how to finance that spending.

When the FED is loose, it is by nature inflationary. This might not be recognizable at times if the government is tight (rare) or if productivity in the economy is high enough that it actually deflates against the monetary inflation (2011-2020).

When the FED is loose and the government goes EXTREME to the loose end, at the same time that the government is increasing regulations and keeping a high tax burden, the effects are limiting to supply but EXTREMELY inflationary to demand. Price can go only skyrocket. That's exactly what happened after COVID.

---

Yet another thing I love about F16 is getting edumicated on things by folks that know.

Appreciate it.

No Spin Ag said:

---

Heineken-Ashi said:

---

No Spin Ag said:

---

Heineken-Ashi said:

---

No Spin Ag said:

---

Eso si, Que es said:

---

I agreed with this 6 years ago because the American consumer does pay the tariff.

But Trump proved to me he knows how to effectively use tariffs and the threat of tariffs. He is trying to make our manufacturing more robust and decrease dependency on Chyna for anything he can.

I support the bludgeoning of our foes and rebuilding manufacturing in America that rebuilds towns and communities full of people that are like minded. And I am willing to pay more for it if I must.

---

Like most of us on here, complaining about "INFLATION!!!!" is nothing more than tribal politics at its finest. For most in the true middle class and higher, the tears cried about inflation were crocodile tears at best. If a few hundred bucks more in gas and groceries cripples you to the point that your life if truly changed, you've made some poor choices in life and now need to make better ones.

As can be seen by all of your stars, people have no problem paying more for everything, so long as it's for the reasons they support. No different than liberals the past four years and it looks like no different for many a republican the next four years. As you said, "like-minded" goes along way in how one sees there being less in the bank accounts,

---

Ridiculous.

Inflation is a monetary phenomenon. If the FED is providing monetary stimulus at the same time the government is providing fiscal stimulus, you get massive inflation.. exactly what we saw over the last 4 years. I personally blame the FED. But IF the Fed is going to do what they did, the government can't then shovel cash into economy at the same time. That's not just idiotic, its a complete void of economic understanding.

And to your second paragraph, if people didn't mind paying more, they would have elected Kamala. This election was a mandate against the fiscal central governance of the current administration. People are tired of paying more. But you also fail to understand that inflation doesn't affect everyone the same. The lower and middles class is being CRUSHED because energy, housing, and food.. the areas where inflation hit the hardest, are a much larger portion of their income than the wealthy elite. And they don't have the exposure to investments in the things benefitting inflation like the wealthy do.

---

Good points. Thanks for taking the time and effort to explain it as well as you did.

I guess, even if we (on here) can afford it, we can still hope for prices to go down for those who can't afford the higher prices. Time will tell if prices go down, for their sake, at least.

---

Correct.

The issue that most don't understand is that we have a FED that can only control the monetary side - the amount of liquidity in circulation and the status of their own balance sheet that gets it that way. Vs a government that can only control the fiscal side - how much the government spends and how to finance that spending.

When the FED is loose, it is by nature inflationary. This might not be recognizable at times if the government is tight (rare) or if productivity in the economy is high enough that it actually deflates against the monetary inflation (2011-2020).

When the FED is loose and the government goes EXTREME to the loose end, at the same time that the government is increasing regulations and keeping a high tax burden, the effects are limiting to supply but EXTREMELY inflationary to demand. Price can go only skyrocket. That's exactly what happened after COVID.

---

Yet another thing I love about F16 is getting edumicated on things by folks that know.

Appreciate it.

---

Thank you for having an open mind.

BurnetAggie99 said:

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Tariffs last year brought in 80 Billion dollars last year.

For example, given the value of goods imports during FY2023 ($3.12 trillion), an across-the-board 70 percent tariff would be required to replace the equivalent revenue raised by the individual income tax under the overly simplistic assumption that consumers, producers, and our trading partners would have made no changes to their behavior in response to the tariffs.

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The federal deficit estimates for FY2024 are around $1.8 trillion. Seems like a lot of work and chatter for so little benefit

If inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon (Milton Friedman), how are tariffs increasing the money supply?

Ag with kids said:

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If inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon (Milton Friedman), how are tariffs increasing the money supply?

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It's basically [supply of money]/[supply of goods]. And tariffs make the supply of goods go down.

The Fed is supposed to print to match the increase in the good supply. That is basically their job. Milton is saying that if they don't do that then they screwed up. If the Fed reduces money printing to match the reduction in supply of goods, then there won't be inflation. But everybody knows they wont do that.

Ag with kids said:

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If inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon (Milton Friedman), how are tariffs increasing the money supply?

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The FED and the government have to work together to maintain stable prices.

The FED's mandates are low unemployment and low inflation.

If the economy begins to show cracks, the FED can stimulate through loose monetary policy. This is 100% inflationary. Tight fiscal policy can CANCEL OUT the inflationary effect on prices. It can also assist in swelling it like it did recently.

But inflation can't be created by fiscal policy on its own, as the FED controls the money supply. When the government gets very loose fiscally, the FED can contract the money supply and tighten monetary conditions. This reduces demand.

Then there are the times like we are in now, where we have had unprecedented loose monetary AND fiscal policy. There is no putting a lid on it. The fiscal is stuck being loose. The only answer can be tight monetary policy. But because the FED ignored their role in reacting to fiscal conditions for YEARS, and instead has pivoted back to being loose, the only answer going forward is more inflation. If the fiscal side can somehow become restrictive and tight, we can have a period of seeming balance. But it cant last forever. The FED has a balance sheet full of liabilities. Any tighter, and those will become ticking time bombs. Any looser without MASSIVELY tighter fiscal conditions, and inflation roars to new highs.

we are essentially stuck praying on a miracle. The only way truly out of this is letting the market take control which likely ends at asset prices and money supply back where it was pre-2008. That would be painful for most people, and the loudest opponents are predictably the people who have benefitted the most from inflation and control the most assets.

Of course the theory that the fed or government should stimulate the economy when it's in a recession is wrong. As is everything the Keynesian believe.

No Spin Ag said:

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Eso si, Que es said:

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I agreed with this 6 years ago because the American consumer does pay the tariff.

But Trump proved to me he knows how to effectively use tariffs and the threat of tariffs. He is trying to make our manufacturing more robust and decrease dependency on Chyna for anything he can.

I support the bludgeoning of our foes and rebuilding manufacturing in America that rebuilds towns and communities full of people that are like minded. And I am willing to pay more for it if I must.

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Like most of us on here, complaining about "INFLATION!!!!" is nothing more than tribal politics at its finest. For most in the true middle class and higher, the tears cried about inflation were crocodile tears at best. If a few hundred bucks more in gas and groceries cripples you to the point that your life if truly changed, you've made some poor choices in life and now need to make better ones.

As can be seen by all of your stars, people have no problem paying more for everything, so long as it's for the reasons they support. No different than liberals the past four years and it looks like no different for many a republican the next four years. As you said, "like-minded" goes along way in how one sees there being less in the bank accounts,

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I would argue the main difference between the right and the left on inflation is that the left spent months denying any inflation was taking place, then claimed it was transitory once that was proven to be false, then blamed business owners and Trump as the reason inflation was out of control once that was proven to be false. There was zero accountability. People like Elon and Trump are telling you up front that this is necessary, but it won't be all sunshine.

It's odd referring to fiscal policy as loose or tight. As if there is an interest rate of their own that they set. They don't.

Government simply interferes and impedes on progress. The more they interfere the less productivity we enjoy and the lower the supply of goods. Government should never TRY to increase interference. They should simply get the hell out of the way and let the economy thrive.

No Spin Ag said:

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Eso si, Que es said:

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I agreed with this 6 years ago because the American consumer does pay the tariff.

But Trump proved to me he knows how to effectively use tariffs and the threat of tariffs. He is trying to make our manufacturing more robust and decrease dependency on Chyna for anything he can.

I support the bludgeoning of our foes and rebuilding manufacturing in America that rebuilds towns and communities full of people that are like minded. And I am willing to pay more for it if I must.

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Like most of us on here, complaining about "INFLATION!!!!" is nothing more than tribal politics at its finest. For most in the true middle class and higher, the tears cried about inflation were crocodile tears at best. If a few hundred bucks more in gas and groceries cripples you to the point that your life if truly changed, you've made some poor choices in life and now need to make better ones.

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A record number of Americans live paycheck to paycheck. Inflation absolutely hurts the crap out of them. To call their tears "crocodile" is asinine.

Inflation doesn't hurt me as much, but I'm still angry about the fact that government is stealing my purchasing power through inflation because they are too cowardly to do it transparently with a tax increase.

Quote:

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As can be seen by all of your stars, people have no problem paying more for everything, so long as it's for the reasons they support. No different than liberals the past four years and it looks like no different for many a republican the next four years. As you said, "like-minded" goes along way in how one sees there being less in the bank accounts,

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I have no idea what you are talking about. I don't want to pay more for anything.