This also says that it is for System schools, so this is probably a tool to boost enrollment at non-Austin campuses.

A&M has an option if you're in the holistic pool of "System Admit" where they will send you to a non-College Station campus with the idea that you eventually transfer to College Station. However, the conditions are pretty rigorous and strict that one little slip means you're stuck in Laredo or Commerce . We had several advisors tell us not to choose this option if we had our hearts set on being an Aggie.

e=mc2 said:

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A&M and Texas should provide free education for all students. The demand would truly make the schools elite as long as students were selected through merit.

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As long as no leftists are determining the merit. The hue and cry would be great from the race-baiters.

This is great for small business owners who can pay themselves under $100k/year while putting their lifestyle and cars on the company dime.

tizzizzailslf04 said:

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one safe place said:

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BusterAg said:

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I own a small business. It would be pretty easy to make sure that my business made less than $100,000 for four years.

But, then I would have had to send my daughters to tu, and they might have asked me to walk them down the aisle to marry their wives. No thanks.

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Yep. I wonder if the $100,000 is truly per family, regardless of it being a married couple or half that for a single parent? Otherwise, a couple with two kids making above the $100,000 amount could get a friendly divorce, each have custody of one child and each take advantage of the deal.

Owned my own small businesses and made sure I structured things to take advantage of the nonsense during covid, to get back some of what they had previously taken from me.

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So your first paragraph was you worrying about people taking advantage of the system, while your second paragraph was you blatantly admitting that YOU YOURSELF took advantage of the system.

Not ok when THEY do it

…But it was cool when YOU did it…for…reasons…

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Where did you get the idea he was worried about people taking advantage of the system?

Soooo...
Dad is a well paid professional or perhaps a small business owner. Mom is a stay at home.

Mom and Dad call up their attorney and say, we want a divorce. Husband and wife have a quick list of how they are going to split everything. They also agree to co-habitat following separation. Mom gets full custody of the kids until 18 and will continue to claim on her taxes through college.

So on paper Mom has no income and a few assets. Dad has a full time, well paid career, but does not contribute to his kids. Dad lives with his "girlfriend" and provides her with a level of financial support that she's accustomed to.

Kids go to college for free. Once they're both graduated Mom and Dad head down to the courthouse and re-marry.

aggie93 said:

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This entire process is ridiculous btw, it is what elite private schools do to enact their socialist agenda. Merit doesn't matter nearly as much as means. If you can order 3 toppings on your pizza you get to pay full price. So it squeezes the hell out of the upper middle class.

Texas has some of the highest in state tuition rates in the country and A&M and Texas have very little merit aid. Why? We are the 2 richest public schools in the country. In Florida and Georgia good students from in state often go for free. Most states have rates about half what we charge. We are far more socialist than California and we penalize in state kids, there any kid from outside of Cali cannot qualify for any scholarships and has to pay $22,500 in OOS tuition on top of all fees.

If you can get through the gauntlet of getting in to A&M or Texas it should be every bit as affordable as those states, we have far more resources and far more generous donors. If nothing else we should have massive merit aid for in state students.

How we are a Deep Red state run that runs our higher education like we are Deep Blue is staggering to me.

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That may have made sense back in the day. Not sure that makes any sense now unless the stats show that most of those kids stay in the state and work for companies located in the state post graduation.

Also, how are we more socialist when we charge for the education and other states give it away for "free" or a lot less? That means the taxpayers are paying for it.

Muy said:

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This is great for small business owners who can pay themselves under $100k/year while putting their lifestyle and cars on the company dime.

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It is quite hard to do that to the tune of more than $150K in lifestyle spending.

So great for those small business owners making less than $300K but they are giving up a lot of QBI and probably have to take most of that $100k as "reasonable" W2 income and are now paying both sides of FICA on it.

Tom Fox said:

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Muy said:

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This is great for small business owners who can pay themselves under $100k/year while putting their lifestyle and cars on the company dime.

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It is quite hard to do that to the tune of more than $150K in lifestyle spending.

So great for those small business owners making less than $300K but they are giving up a lot of QBI and probably have to take most of that $100k as "reasonable" W2 income and are now paying both sides of FICA on it.

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My idea was without detail as a small business owner, obviously.

Muy said:

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Tom Fox said:

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Muy said:

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This is great for small business owners who can pay themselves under $100k/year while putting their lifestyle and cars on the company dime.

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It is quite hard to do that to the tune of more than $150K in lifestyle spending.

So great for those small business owners making less than $300K but they are giving up a lot of QBI and probably have to take most of that $100k as "reasonable" W2 income and are now paying both sides of FICA on it.

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My idea was without detail as a small business owner, obviously.

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That sucks. I thought maybe you had cracked the code and I could stop paying taxes.

Tom Fox said:

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Muy said:

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Tom Fox said:

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Muy said:

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This is great for small business owners who can pay themselves under $100k/year while putting their lifestyle and cars on the company dime.

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It is quite hard to do that to the tune of more than $150K in lifestyle spending.

So great for those small business owners making less than $300K but they are giving up a lot of QBI and probably have to take most of that $100k as "reasonable" W2 income and are now paying both sides of FICA on it.

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My idea was without detail as a small business owner, obviously.

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That sucks. I thought maybe you had cracked the code and I could stop paying taxes.

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I didn't say you couldn't try.

aggie93 said:

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In Florida and Georgia good students from in state often go for free. Most states have rates about half what we charge. We are far more socialist than California and we penalize in state kids, there any kid from outside of Cali cannot qualify for any scholarships and has to pay $22,500 in OOS tuition on top of all fees.

If you can get through the gauntlet of getting in to A&M or Texas it should be every bit as affordable as those states, we have far more resources and far more generous donors. If nothing else we should have massive merit aid for in state students.

How we are a Deep Red state run that runs our higher education like we are Deep Blue is staggering to me.

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Georgia also has a 6% income tax to help pay for that free college, ouch! That's a lot of money coming off the top, especially when you're in the peak earnings era of your career.

And they don't stop there. Move into the state and need to register your car? States want to know that you paid sales tax on it when you bought it elsewhere, and they typically credit that to whatever their tax rate is... usually a wash.

Not Georgia. They call theirs an ad valorem tax on your car, and you pay (I think it was similar to 6%) on the market value of your car, even though you already paid sales tax on it in your prior state. Got a nice car or truck that's worth $50k to $80k? Well, be prepared to fork over another $3k to $5k in "welcome to Georgia" taxes.

I lived in GA three times. Good state, but I'll take the tax structure in Texas over GA. I'd rather keep that 6% every year and pay a bit more tuition for the limited time my kids are in college.

The one state that might be better from my experience would be Tennessee. No income tax, and the property tax is a bit lower, although the sales tax in my town clocked in at 9.25%.

Emancipation about to happen again! New Juneteenth for rich kids!

This is true. My wife is from Savannah and went to college for "free" on the Hope Scholarship. We would pay right at $50K a year in Georgia State taxes.

Thankfully we live in Texas. I think I will just pay for my kids college and call it a day.

texagbeliever said:

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Actually tax payers are giving free education.

If texas (and A&M) have such great endowments why should the state give them any money?

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Endowments help sponsor research, which in turn leads to innovation, which brings funds back to the University. A good example of this is the Rellis Campus (TAMU), where fundamental research has landed huge contracts with the DoD and DoE.

If UT wants to squander its research opportunities on free tuition then so be it.

If its free, there is something wrong with it.

Sips need to lower standards to make sure this really works!

If they dont require SAT/ACT, will high schools pass out A's and GPA?

If these folks are funneled to other campuses, its gonna kill some JC's. Tarrant, Tyler, Kilgore, Angelina will lose the very students who need to be at a JC, all have UT campuses near. They spin their wheels there at JC's if they are not capable or serious students. JCs ought to step up vocational program-- lots of money there anyway.

Georgia and Texas actually have a similar total state and local tax burden.

redcrayon said:

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Georgia and Texas actually have a similar total state and local tax burden.

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Show your work. Do it for someone who makes $600K in both Texas and Georgia.

redcrayon said:

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Georgia and Texas actually have a similar total state and local tax burden.

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That statement needs much more context. It's incredibly broad and is absolutely false for someone with my profile who's lived in both states for a number of years. I've got the tax bills from both states to prove it, and it's not even close. That 6% income tax on a high income is a lot of coin that is not made up by the difference on property tax and sales tax.

It might be a true statement for someone with a low income. I wouldn't know. But I do know it's not accurate for me.

Kenneth_2003 said:

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Soooo...
Dad is a well paid professional or perhaps a small business owner. Mom is a stay at home.

Mom and Dad call up their attorney and say, we want a divorce. Husband and wife have a quick list of how they are going to split everything. They also agree to co-habitat following separation. Mom gets full custody of the kids until 18 and will continue to claim on her taxes through college.

So on paper Mom has no income and a few assets. Dad has a full time, well paid career, but does not contribute to his kids. Dad lives with his "girlfriend" and provides her with a level of financial support that she's accustomed to.

Kids go to college for free. Once they're both graduated Mom and Dad head down to the courthouse and re-marry.

---

I tried to talk my wife into this, for scholarship purposes. The student qualifies for infinitely more scholarships, if their parents make less income.

Needless to say, we're paying full price

I obviously don't know your exact profile but in general, the tax burdens are pretty similar. For us, GA was cheaper than TX because of TX crazy property tax situation. Now, it's not enough of a difference to determine where we live, but GA was less. Maybe you make a ton of money and live in a less expensive home in TX but OVERALL the tax burdens aren't very different. Again, I don't know your exact situation. And no we aren't TexAgs billionaires but we are far removed from low income.

https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/tax-burden-by-state-2022/

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-burden/20494

Logos Stick said:

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aggie93 said:

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This entire process is ridiculous btw, it is what elite private schools do to enact their socialist agenda. Merit doesn't matter nearly as much as means. If you can order 3 toppings on your pizza you get to pay full price. So it squeezes the hell out of the upper middle class.

Texas has some of the highest in state tuition rates in the country and A&M and Texas have very little merit aid. Why? We are the 2 richest public schools in the country. In Florida and Georgia good students from in state often go for free. Most states have rates about half what we charge. We are far more socialist than California and we penalize in state kids, there any kid from outside of Cali cannot qualify for any scholarships and has to pay $22,500 in OOS tuition on top of all fees.

If you can get through the gauntlet of getting in to A&M or Texas it should be every bit as affordable as those states, we have far more resources and far more generous donors. If nothing else we should have massive merit aid for in state students.

How we are a Deep Red state run that runs our higher education like we are Deep Blue is staggering to me.

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That may have made sense back in the day. Not sure that makes any sense now unless the stats show that most of those kids stay in the state and work for companies located in the state post graduation.

Also, how are we more socialist when we charge for the education and other states give it away for "free" or a lot less? That means the taxpayers are paying for it.

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Florida and Georgia have seen great results in keeping their best students in state because of this. Recently did a tour of Georgia Tech with my son and the student who was showing us around talked about how they had a lot of options but getting Zell Miller made it a no brainer to stay in state.

We are more socialist because we are giving it away purely on income/means whereas in those states it is based on merit (GPA/SAT) and income isn't part of the equation. They have additional scholarships based on need but most do not. They also heavily favor in state students for financial aid whereas at A&M if you can qualify for $4k in scholarships you automatically get in state tuition and for certain majors like MART in Galveston virtually everyone gets in state tuition.

To get a Zell Miller you need a 3.7 HS GPA with a 1200 SAT and to maintain a 3.3 in college. There are also a variety of other scholarships available with less merit required. Most of these states also have retail price In State tuition at about half of what A&M is, typically $6-9k per year. Why? We are much, much wealthier than those states.

There are also many studies that show you are most likely to stay and work where you go to school. It only makes logical sense because of familiarity and network. It's even moreso if you are from the state you went to school.

redcrayon said:

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I obviously don't know your exact profile but in general, the tax burdens are pretty similar. For us, GA was cheaper than TX because of TX crazy property tax situation. Now, it's not enough of a difference to determine where we live, but GA was less. Maybe you make a ton of money and live in a less expensive home in TX but OVERALL the tax burdens aren't very different. Again, I don't know your exact situation. And no we aren't TexAgs billionaires but we are far removed from low income.

https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/state/tax-burden-by-state-2022/

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-burden/20494

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I pay around $12K a year and live in a $900K home in Texas. I would pay right at $50K in Georgia income taxes. That is a 75% increase. That doesn't even take into account the ad valorem taxes on $200k in vehicles.

If you are a low income earner that might be true. My in-laws still live in Georgia and I lived there for 4 years.

Yesterday said:

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Click here

Quote:

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Students whose families make less than $100,000 annually will get free tuition and waived fees at any of the academic universities in the University of Texas System, the board of regents announced Wednesday.

The initiative is an expansion of the Promise Plus Program, a needs-based financial aid program approved by the board in 2022. The UT System expects that more than 7 million Texas families will meet the income requirements for the new program, officials said.

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Apparently it is coming from their endowment and not public funds....but....if they distributed this money to every student they could lower tuition for everyone. Thoughts?

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Their money, not mine, then I couldn't care less what they do with it.

Next issue.

From looking at that first link you shared, the study says they include all kinds of taxes when making a comparison. There's some big ones in there that don't affect a citizen's daily life directly like corporate income taxes and inheritance taxes.

I'm just not seeing anything that makes up the difference between a 6% income tax and none, especially if you don't overexpose yourself on property taxes by buying at the very high end of the housing market.

My net "keep" of income is definitely better in TX.

MemphisAg1 said:

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aggie93 said:

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In Florida and Georgia good students from in state often go for free. Most states have rates about half what we charge. We are far more socialist than California and we penalize in state kids, there any kid from outside of Cali cannot qualify for any scholarships and has to pay $22,500 in OOS tuition on top of all fees.

If you can get through the gauntlet of getting in to A&M or Texas it should be every bit as affordable as those states, we have far more resources and far more generous donors. If nothing else we should have massive merit aid for in state students.

How we are a Deep Red state run that runs our higher education like we are Deep Blue is staggering to me.

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Georgia also has a 6% income tax to help pay for that free college, ouch! That's a lot of money coming off the top, especially when you're in the peak earnings era of your career.

And they don't stop there. Move into the state and need to register your car? States want to know that you paid sales tax on it when you bought it elsewhere, and they typically credit that to whatever their tax rate is... usually a wash.

Not Georgia. They call theirs an ad valorem tax on your car, and you pay (I think it was similar to 6%) on the market value of your car, even though you already paid sales tax on it in your prior state. Got a nice car or truck that's worth $50k to $80k? Well, be prepared to fork over another $3k to $5k in "welcome to Georgia" taxes.

I lived in GA three times. Good state, but I'll take the tax structure in Texas over GA. I'd rather keep that 6% every year and pay a bit more tuition for the limited time my kids are in college.

The one state that might be better from my experience would be Tennessee. No income tax, and the property tax is a bit lower, although the sales tax in my town clocked in at 9.25%.

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Florida has Bright Futures and no income tax. This is about prioritization of spending not tax structure. We have the money we just choose to spend it on other things, Texas has a huge budget surplus as well. Yet we have some of the most expensive in state tuition in the country and are much more expensive when looking at states we should be compared to. That's without even talking about how we charge $4-6k+ per Semester for dorms that have long since been paid for. That's often over $20k per Semester for a 4 Pack Suite with bare bones amenities.

It's their system, let them do what they want.

Just don't force other systems to do the same.

aggie93 said:

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MemphisAg1 said:

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aggie93 said:

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In Florida and Georgia good students from in state often go for free. Most states have rates about half what we charge. We are far more socialist than California and we penalize in state kids, there any kid from outside of Cali cannot qualify for any scholarships and has to pay $22,500 in OOS tuition on top of all fees.

If you can get through the gauntlet of getting in to A&M or Texas it should be every bit as affordable as those states, we have far more resources and far more generous donors. If nothing else we should have massive merit aid for in state students.

How we are a Deep Red state run that runs our higher education like we are Deep Blue is staggering to me.

---

Georgia also has a 6% income tax to help pay for that free college, ouch! That's a lot of money coming off the top, especially when you're in the peak earnings era of your career.

And they don't stop there. Move into the state and need to register your car? States want to know that you paid sales tax on it when you bought it elsewhere, and they typically credit that to whatever their tax rate is... usually a wash.

Not Georgia. They call theirs an ad valorem tax on your car, and you pay (I think it was similar to 6%) on the market value of your car, even though you already paid sales tax on it in your prior state. Got a nice car or truck that's worth $50k to $80k? Well, be prepared to fork over another $3k to $5k in "welcome to Georgia" taxes.

I lived in GA three times. Good state, but I'll take the tax structure in Texas over GA. I'd rather keep that 6% every year and pay a bit more tuition for the limited time my kids are in college.

The one state that might be better from my experience would be Tennessee. No income tax, and the property tax is a bit lower, although the sales tax in my town clocked in at 9.25%.

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Florida has Bright Futures and no income tax. This is about prioritization of spending not tax structure. We have the money we just choose to spend it on other things, Texas has a huge budget surplus as well. Yet we have some of the most expensive in state tuition in the country and are much more expensive when looking at states we should be compared to. That's without even talking about how we charge $4-6k+ per Semester for dorms that have long since been paid for. That's often over $20k per Semester for a 4 Pack Suite with bare bones amenities.

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I do not understand why I have to keep saying this: money is fungible.

If you have enough to pay for free state tuition at college, lower taxes instead and let people decide for themselves where their hard earned dollars are spent.

Sounds good. Every situation is different so YMMV. Just didn't want there to be a false assumption that GA is over-taxing compared to TX and using that to pay for free tuition. IIRC, GA pays for HOPE scholarships with lottery money.

zephyr88 said:

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It's their system, let them do what they want.

Just don't force other systems to do the same.

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It's not "their" system. They are a public school in Texas and most of their funding comes from the State including the PUF. It's all of our system. BTW, A&M is doing basically the same thing just at a lower income threshold for now.

Sounds like TX works out great for you! I definitely wouldn't move if I were you.

redcrayon said:

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Sounds like TX works out great for you! I definitely wouldn't move if I were you.

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I wouldn't. Georgia is a poverty ridden shlthole controlled by Atlanta. I never saw true generational poverty until I policed in Savannah.

Tom Fox said:

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aggie93 said:

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MemphisAg1 said:

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aggie93 said:

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In Florida and Georgia good students from in state often go for free. Most states have rates about half what we charge. We are far more socialist than California and we penalize in state kids, there any kid from outside of Cali cannot qualify for any scholarships and has to pay $22,500 in OOS tuition on top of all fees.

If you can get through the gauntlet of getting in to A&M or Texas it should be every bit as affordable as those states, we have far more resources and far more generous donors. If nothing else we should have massive merit aid for in state students.

How we are a Deep Red state run that runs our higher education like we are Deep Blue is staggering to me.

---

Georgia also has a 6% income tax to help pay for that free college, ouch! That's a lot of money coming off the top, especially when you're in the peak earnings era of your career.

And they don't stop there. Move into the state and need to register your car? States want to know that you paid sales tax on it when you bought it elsewhere, and they typically credit that to whatever their tax rate is... usually a wash.

Not Georgia. They call theirs an ad valorem tax on your car, and you pay (I think it was similar to 6%) on the market value of your car, even though you already paid sales tax on it in your prior state. Got a nice car or truck that's worth $50k to $80k? Well, be prepared to fork over another $3k to $5k in "welcome to Georgia" taxes.

I lived in GA three times. Good state, but I'll take the tax structure in Texas over GA. I'd rather keep that 6% every year and pay a bit more tuition for the limited time my kids are in college.

The one state that might be better from my experience would be Tennessee. No income tax, and the property tax is a bit lower, although the sales tax in my town clocked in at 9.25%.

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Florida has Bright Futures and no income tax. This is about prioritization of spending not tax structure. We have the money we just choose to spend it on other things, Texas has a huge budget surplus as well. Yet we have some of the most expensive in state tuition in the country and are much more expensive when looking at states we should be compared to. That's without even talking about how we charge $4-6k+ per Semester for dorms that have long since been paid for. That's often over $20k per Semester for a 4 Pack Suite with bare bones amenities.

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I do not understand why I have to keep saying this: money is fungible.

If you have enough to pay for free state tuition at college, lower taxes instead and let people decide for themselves where their hard earned dollars are spent.

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That's not the choice though. The choice is that we are charging some of the highest rates in the country in state for some and then giving away tuition for free to others. We also have lots of waste in other areas. We are choosing to make means the most important factor in how much people pay for college not merit and are essentially making those who are typically better students but have parents who simply have paid taxes for decades and order 3 toppings on their pizza effectively pay for their kid and for someone else's kid to go to college.

This isn't a choice of a tax cut vs tuition. There is no option of keeping more of my money to spend elsewhere, this is about how we choose to spend the money we already have. Once again A&M and Texas are the 2 wealthiest Public Schools in the country and that gap is widening, we have larger endowments than most Ivies and get additional public funding on top of that. All we are getting is a "tuition freeze" when our tuition is already twice what it should be and then we make it free for others. It is how elite private schools operate not other public schools.

The reason they can get away with this btw is that most people in Texas including on this board simply don't know how things work in other states. They simply look at our model as if it is the only way. BTW, something else about what has happened in Georgia, Florida, and North Carolina since they shifted their models is their public schools have rocketed up the rankings in part because their retention level for top students in their states are extremely high.

Tom Fox said:

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redcrayon said:

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Sounds like TX works out great for you! I definitely wouldn't move if I were you.

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I wouldn't. Georgia is a poverty ridden shlthole controlled by Atlanta. I never saw true generational poverty until I policed in Savannah.

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There are plenty of nice parts of GA. I've lived in both ATL and SAV and saw the same stuff you reference, but it's really not any different than parts of Houston, Dallas, or San Antonio. As we both know, there are still many great parts of TX outside those areas.

My wife's parents got divorced when she was 16. It was not a good / convenient situation - her mom had been a stay at home mom for many years. The fed/state government essentially handed her grant $, because everything was based off her mom's income when she attended A&M. It is a crazy system that her dad was completely ignored in the equation.