BusterAg said:

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aTmAg said:

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BusterAg said:

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aTmAg said:

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BusterAg said:

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aTmAg said:

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Unions are bad and have ALWAYS been bad. Anybody who tells you otherwise is ignorant of economics.

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This isn't true. When there were zero workplace regulations, unions actually had a purpose.

I would be ok with getting unions back if we eliminated 98% of federal regulations related to the workplace.

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Wrong. Factories today would be more safe and pay more workers a good wage if unions and OSHA had never existed. Factories were already getting safer before them and would have continued to do so.

Why? Because natural market forces push reasonable workplace safety on their own. If factory X is dangerous as hell and factory Y is safe, then workers would naturally prefer to work for factory Y, unless factory X offered a ridiculously high wage. Factory X, not wanting to blow a crap-ton of money on employee wages, will naturally make their factory safer to entice employees to work there.

Just like there is price equilibrium, there is also safety equilibrium. We could make the workplace ridiculously safe just like we could ban motorcycles and force every car to be a tank. But just like tank-cars would be very expensive, over-safe factories would cost employees in the form of lower wages.

The equilibrium amount would be perfect balance of safety and wage to make employees happy. OSHA pushes worthless safety measures like color coded ladders and crap, and employees lose out on wages. The factories could have used that money to make their factories actually safer or pay their employees more (whatever the employees prefer). The same is true when unions push for excessive safety. Those costs come from somewhere. Nothing is free.

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There are about 50 million Chinese slave laborers that would disagree with you.

How do you explain that?

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Slavery != free markets and is the antithesis of capitalism. Capitalism is the free and voluntary exchange of goods and services.

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Those Chinese workers voluntarily agreed to those jobs, though. They voluntarily agreed to exchange their freedom for the piddly wages they get.

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Then it's not slave labor then, is it?

ntxVol said:

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aTmAg said:

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BusterAg said:

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aTmAg said:

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Unions are bad and have ALWAYS been bad. Anybody who tells you otherwise is ignorant of economics.

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This isn't true. When there were zero workplace regulations, unions actually had a purpose.

I would be ok with getting unions back if we eliminated 98% of federal regulations related to the workplace.

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Wrong. Factories today would be more safe and pay more workers a good wage if unions and OSHA had never existed. Factories were already getting safer before them and would have continued to do so.

Why? Because natural market forces push reasonable workplace safety on their own. If factory X is dangerous as hell and factory Y is safe, then workers would naturally prefer to work for factory Y, unless factory X offered a ridiculously high wage. Factory X, not wanting to blow a crap-ton of money on employee wages, will naturally make their factory safer to entice employees to work there.

Just like there is price equilibrium, there is also safety equilibrium. We could make the workplace ridiculously safe just like we could ban motorcycles and force every car to be a tank. But just like tank-cars would be very expensive, over-safe factories would cost employees in the form of lower wages.

The equilibrium amount would be perfect balance of safety and wage to make employees happy. OSHA pushes worthless safety measures like color coded ladders and crap, and employees lose out on wages. The factories could have used that money to make their factories actually safer or pay their employees more (whatever the employees prefer). The same is true when unions push for excessive safety. Those costs come from somewhere. Nothing is free.

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You sound like someone who's never worked in manufacturing or ever been inside a manufacturing facility in Asia.

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Besides the fact that I work at a manufacturing plant right now, you are correct!!!

What I don't understand is how a union has any leverage when new management WANTS to cut headcount.

"Here's what we agreed to with the past executive - don't tell us to do more or we'll walk out"

"Perfect! We'll just fire you all for cause and part ways!"

Some of you have been exposed to Unions and some have likely not, if your work has kept you in Texas. In many regions of our country it's a well-oiled extortion scheme.

A couple of anecdotal examples we went through in a previous life doing trade shows where we took orders for products we manufactured.

- in Chicago the show was in a 'Union Building' and cordless drills were considered a power tool, which required a union carpenter to 'help' you at $75/hr, minimum 2 hours.

- in New York, if you clipped on more than 3 lights on your booth(spring-loaded), a electrical contractor was required for $125 x 2 hrs

-in Las Vegas we got hit for $2300 for drayage charges for moving in and out our palletized booth setup by forklift (required) which might have taken 30 minutes total for one frickin' driver. I fought that for 6 months and got it cut n half which was still a ripoff.

Yea, I am not a fan and believe they've served their purpose long ago. Now it's a monster that just feeds the lofty leaders (and Dem politicians) and pushes manufacturers and business elsewhere.

As someone with family in coal country, unions served a purpose in the past (although thuggery in union politics could be as dangerous as the work). Nowadays, unions hurt more than they help.

Jack Squat 83 said:

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Yea, I am not a fan and believe they've served their purpose long ago. Now it's a monster that just feeds the lofty leaders (and Dem politicians) and pushes manufacturers and business elsewhere.

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I agree with this completely.

BBRex said:

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As someone with family in coal country, unions served a purpose in the past (although thuggery in union politics could be as dangerous as the work). Nowadays, unions hurt more than they help.

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And this.

Logos Stick said:

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Unions are trying to get new agreements in place to AVOID being fired.

One good way to reduce the size of the federal government is to require all employees to work in the office full-time. Anyone who refuses will be laid off. Reduction through attrition. https://t.co/GOnQvSylA1

— Christopher F. Rufo ⚔️ (@realchrisrufo) November 18, 2024

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The fed government is so bloated it's hard to figure where to start. But this is one good way. Make it uncomfortable and get them to quit.

Jack Squat 83 said:

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Some of you have been exposed to Unions and some have likely not, if your work has kept you in Texas. In many regions of our country it's a well-oiled extortion scheme.

A couple of anecdotal examples we went through in a previous life doing trade shows where we took orders for products we manufactured.

- in Chicago the show was in a 'Union Building' and cordless drills were considered a power tool, which required a union carpenter to 'help' you at $75/hr, minimum 2 hours.

- in New York, if you clipped on more than 3 lights on your booth(spring-loaded), a electrical contractor was required for $125 x 2 hrs

-in Las Vegas we got hit for $2300 for drayage charges for moving in and out our palletized booth setup by forklift (required) which might have taken 30 minutes total for one frickin' driver. I fought that for 6 months and got it cut n half which was still a ripoff.

Yea, I am not a fan and believe they've served their purpose long ago. Now it's a monster that just feeds the lofty leaders (and Dem politicians) and pushes manufacturers and business elsewhere.

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I didn't notice this last part. I removed my star.

This is absolutely incorrect. Unions have always been a bad economic force. Even on day one.

BBRex said:

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As someone with family in coal country, unions served a purpose in the past (although thuggery in union politics could be as dangerous as the work). Nowadays, unions hurt more than they help.

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Incorrect. (Except the thuggery part).

aTmAg said:

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Jack Squat 83 said:

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Some of you have been exposed to Unions and some have likely not, if your work has kept you in Texas. In many regions of our country it's a well-oiled extortion scheme.

A couple of anecdotal examples we went through in a previous life doing trade shows where we took orders for products we manufactured.

- in Chicago the show was in a 'Union Building' and cordless drills were considered a power tool, which required a union carpenter to 'help' you at $75/hr, minimum 2 hours.

- in New York, if you clipped on more than 3 lights on your booth(spring-loaded), a electrical contractor was required for $125 x 2 hrs

-in Las Vegas we got hit for $2300 for drayage charges for moving in and out our palletized booth setup by forklift (required) which might have taken 30 minutes total for one frickin' driver. I fought that for 6 months and got it cut n half which was still a ripoff.

Yea, I am not a fan and believe they've served their purpose long ago. Now it's a monster that just feeds the lofty leaders (and Dem politicians) and pushes manufacturers and business elsewhere.

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I didn't notice this last part. I removed my star.

This is absolutely incorrect. Unions have always been a bad economic force. Even on day one.

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In Boston, if a streetlight needs to be repaired the it is required to have a squad car behind the repair truck for a minimum of 2 hours at the overtime rate.