Tom Fox said:

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This thread just shows once again how many people actually support socialism.

How do you go from a free market capitalist to not?

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Emotion. The answer is always emotion.

Whatever the market will bear. Lenders compete for
Business.

Mas89 said:

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halfastros81 said:

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Great . Unconstitutional Government intervention always works out so well.

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Usury rates are illegal. The question being asked is above what level is usury? Payday loan rate acceptable?
Who sets the rate that is legal? 10, 15, 20, 25?

What's your number that is legal?

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The Church of England determined that usury (sin) is asking for a return greater than 10%.

Biblically speaking lending internally (within the Tribe) cannot have an interest rate, but lending externally would still have regulation of usury.

Aggies1322 said:

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Mas89 said:

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Aggies1322 said:

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TheBonifaceOption said:

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BREAKING: Senator Bernie Sanders announces he will work with Trump to cap the credit card interest rates at 10%

— Eric Daugherty (@EricLDaugh) November 15, 2024

You know the state of the Democrat Party is bad when the far left loon is more moderate than the average thought leader on the left.

I for one would love to see this policy in place. Usury is wicked.

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You know that means that the average American will no longer have credit available to them, right? An unsecured credit product to everyday Americans comes with a ton of risk.. the banks will no longer take that risk if the govt caps what they can charge. Horrible policy imo.

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That's a shame. Maybe they can be responsible and use a debit card.

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Whether you like it or not, you will see $500-600 billion of liquidity leave the market overnight. If you don't think that causes recession, I'm not sure what to tell you. Supporting govt overreach to enact your personal finance opinions, is the wrong way to go about it.

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Good. The FED couldn't account for even its 10% reserve requirement if it had to. FDIC would be completely drained with merely 2-3 major bank runs at the same time.

Stretch a rubber band too far and it will snap before it pulls back. Our rubber band is on the brink of snapping which would be far more davastating than a recession. Had the FED let us have normal economic recessions over the last 15 years instead of leveraging existing deposits to expand a money supply we could never back, we would be in a far better place. Instead, they kept stretching the rubber band and even tied new rubber bands to the existing one. And they are all stretched to the max now.

Is it the governments job to intervene in private business? Well, it's been the government deficit spending us into this nightmare with the help of the FED who backstopped it with an expanded money supply they have zero hope of paying back. This central planning intrusion led to the credit expansion that has given the credit agencies the ability to continue to profit from a deteriorating situation. If the government isn't going to step in to try and get things back on track, then the whole thing is going to collapse anyway.

I don't remember people whining when the government and FED stepped in to create this catastrophe. Can't have it both ways.

TheBonifaceOption said:

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Mas89 said:

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halfastros81 said:

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Great . Unconstitutional Government intervention always works out so well.

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Usury rates are illegal. The question being asked is above what level is usury? Payday loan rate acceptable?
Who sets the rate that is legal? 10, 15, 20, 25?

What's your number that is legal?

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The Church of England determined that usury (sin) is asking for a return greater than 10%.

Biblically speaking lending internally (within the Tribe) cannot have an interest rate, but lending externally would still have regulation of usury.

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That was coupled with the moral obligation to repay your debts.

When people walk away from their debts -- which many credit card holders do -- then the cost of interest goes up due to higher risk. It's really simple.

Heineken-Ashi said:

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Aggies1322 said:

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Mas89 said:

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Aggies1322 said:

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TheBonifaceOption said:

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BREAKING: Senator Bernie Sanders announces he will work with Trump to cap the credit card interest rates at 10%

— Eric Daugherty (@EricLDaugh) November 15, 2024

You know the state of the Democrat Party is bad when the far left loon is more moderate than the average thought leader on the left.

I for one would love to see this policy in place. Usury is wicked.

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You know that means that the average American will no longer have credit available to them, right? An unsecured credit product to everyday Americans comes with a ton of risk.. the banks will no longer take that risk if the govt caps what they can charge. Horrible policy imo.

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That's a shame. Maybe they can be responsible and use a debit card.

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Whether you like it or not, you will see $500-600 billion of liquidity leave the market overnight. If you don't think that causes recession, I'm not sure what to tell you. Supporting govt overreach to enact your personal finance opinions, is the wrong way to go about it.

---

Good. The FED couldn't account for even its 10% reserve requirement if it had to. FDIC would be completely drained with merely 2-3 major bank runs at the same time.

Stretch a rubber band too far and it will snap before it pulls back. Our rubber band is on the brink of snapping which would be far more davastating than a recession. Had the FED let us have normal economic recessions over the last 15 years instead of leveraging existing deposits to expand a money supply we could never back, we would be in a far better place. Instead, they kept stretching the rubber band and even tied new rubber bands to the existing one. And they are all stretched to the max now.

Is it the governments job to intervene in private business? Well, it's been the government deficit spending us into this nightmare with the help of the FED who backstopped it with an expanded money supply they have zero hope of paying back. This central planning intrusion led to the credit expansion that has given the credit agencies the ability to continue to profit from a deteriorating situation. If the government isn't going to step in to try and get things back on track, then the whole thing is going to collapse anyway.

I don't remember people whining when the government and FED stepped in to create this catastrophe. Can't have it both ways.

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I am against both. Let it collapse and keep the government out.

MemphisAg1 said:

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TheBonifaceOption said:

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Mas89 said:

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halfastros81 said:

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Great . Unconstitutional Government intervention always works out so well.

---

Usury rates are illegal. The question being asked is above what level is usury? Payday loan rate acceptable?
Who sets the rate that is legal? 10, 15, 20, 25?

What's your number that is legal?

---

The Church of England determined that usury (sin) is asking for a return greater than 10%.

Biblically speaking lending internally (within the Tribe) cannot have an interest rate, but lending externally would still have regulation of usury.

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That was coupled with the moral obligation to repay your debts.

When people walk away from their debts -- which many credit card holders do -- then the cost of interest goes up due to higher risk. It's really simple.

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Can lenders make a profit at 10%? Yes. The issue here is that they have a fiduciary responsibility to maximize profits. So they tested and weighing all the benefits and liabilities and settled at the rates given the habits of the common American.

I find it somewhat amusing that the same people that complain about "government interfering in the muh free markets" are the same people who complain about the national debt. Austerity is good for X but not for Y, because Y can generally only make good decisions (Hayek and Friedman convinced me so.)

Heineken-Ashi said:

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Aggies1322 said:

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Mas89 said:

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Aggies1322 said:

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TheBonifaceOption said:

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BREAKING: Senator Bernie Sanders announces he will work with Trump to cap the credit card interest rates at 10%

— Eric Daugherty (@EricLDaugh) November 15, 2024

You know the state of the Democrat Party is bad when the far left loon is more moderate than the average thought leader on the left.

I for one would love to see this policy in place. Usury is wicked.

---

You know that means that the average American will no longer have credit available to them, right? An unsecured credit product to everyday Americans comes with a ton of risk.. the banks will no longer take that risk if the govt caps what they can charge. Horrible policy imo.

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That's a shame. Maybe they can be responsible and use a debit card.

---

Whether you like it or not, you will see $500-600 billion of liquidity leave the market overnight. If you don't think that causes recession, I'm not sure what to tell you. Supporting govt overreach to enact your personal finance opinions, is the wrong way to go about it.

---

Good. The FED couldn't account for even its 10% reserve requirement if it had to. FDIC would be completely drained with merely 2-3 major bank runs at the same time.

Stretch a rubber band too far and it will snap before it pulls back. Our rubber band is on the brink of snapping which would be far more davastating than a recession. Had the FED let us have normal economic recessions over the last 15 years instead of leveraging existing deposits to expand a money supply we could never back, we would be in a far better place. Instead, they kept stretching the rubber band and even tied new rubber bands to the existing one. And they are all stretched to the max now.

Is it the governments job to intervene in private business? Well, it's been the government deficit spending us into this nightmare with the help of the FED who backstopped it with an expanded money supply they have zero hope of paying back. This central planning intrusion led to the credit expansion that has given the credit agencies the ability to continue to profit from a deteriorating situation. If the government isn't going to step in to try and get things back on track, then the whole thing is going to collapse anyway.

I don't remember people whining when the government and FED stepped in to create this catastrophe. Can't have it both ways.

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I'm happy to end the deficit spending, and allowing the market to correct itself. I am not for regulating private business on a whim to make things "equitable". That is all this would be doing.

TxAgPreacher said:

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Aggies1322 said:

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TheBonifaceOption said:

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BREAKING: Senator Bernie Sanders announces he will work with Trump to cap the credit card interest rates at 10%

— Eric Daugherty (@EricLDaugh) November 15, 2024

You know the state of the Democrat Party is bad when the far left loon is more moderate than the average thought leader on the left.

I for one would love to see this policy in place. Usury is wicked.

---

You know that means that the average American will no longer have credit available to them, right? An unsecured credit product to everyday Americans comes with a ton of risk.. the banks will no longer take that risk if the govt caps what they can charge. Horrible policy imo.

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Good. Usery is wrong.

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Who decides that line? I agree that predatory lending is wrong, but the rate is more a function of the product than wanting to steal money from people. Again, you can't expect unsecured debt to questionable borrowers to be the same as what you'd give a company with collateral and $40MM EBITDA and a 1.5x FCCR. Which is what you'd be doing by capping it at 10%. Shouldn't you be working today anyways?

TheBonifaceOption said:

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Can lenders make a profit at 10%? Yes. The issue here is that they have a fiduciary responsibility to maximize profits.

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If this were true, Bank XYZ would take all the market share at 10%. Banks take unrecoverable losses when clients default. It's like the ridiculous pay day loans.....they are ridiculous bc the risk is high. The only way banks go to 10% is if they drastically tighten credit rqmt to what dems call "discriminatory", or get gov subsidies/backstopping.

Risk. What is it?

" Usury is wicked"?

Shut up.

Aggies1322 said:

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TxAgPreacher said:

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Aggies1322 said:

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TheBonifaceOption said:

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BREAKING: Senator Bernie Sanders announces he will work with Trump to cap the credit card interest rates at 10%

— Eric Daugherty (@EricLDaugh) November 15, 2024

You know the state of the Democrat Party is bad when the far left loon is more moderate than the average thought leader on the left.

I for one would love to see this policy in place. Usury is wicked.

---

You know that means that the average American will no longer have credit available to them, right? An unsecured credit product to everyday Americans comes with a ton of risk.. the banks will no longer take that risk if the govt caps what they can charge. Horrible policy imo.

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Good. Usery is wrong.

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Who decides that line? I agree that predatory lending is wrong, but the rate is more a function of the product than wanting to steal money from people. Again, you can't expect unsecured debt to questionable borrowers to be the same as what you'd give a company with collateral and $40MM EBITDA and a 1.5x FCCR. Which is what you'd be doing by capping it at 10%. Shouldn't you be working today anyways?

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There is no such thing as usery. People are free to contract for whatever rates they can agree upon.

Aggies1322 said:

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TxAgPreacher said:

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Aggies1322 said:

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TheBonifaceOption said:

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BREAKING: Senator Bernie Sanders announces he will work with Trump to cap the credit card interest rates at 10%

— Eric Daugherty (@EricLDaugh) November 15, 2024

You know the state of the Democrat Party is bad when the far left loon is more moderate than the average thought leader on the left.

I for one would love to see this policy in place. Usury is wicked.

---

You know that means that the average American will no longer have credit available to them, right? An unsecured credit product to everyday Americans comes with a ton of risk.. the banks will no longer take that risk if the govt caps what they can charge. Horrible policy imo.

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Good. Usery is wrong.

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Who decides that line? I agree that predatory lending is wrong, but the rate is more a function of the product than wanting to steal money from people. Again, you can't expect unsecured debt to questionable borrowers to be the same as what you'd give a company with collateral and $40MM EBITDA and a 1.5x FCCR. Which is what you'd be doing by capping it at 10%. Shouldn't you be working today anyways?

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The government decides.

I work every day.

Good post, spot on!

TxAgPreacher said:

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Aggies1322 said:

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TxAgPreacher said:

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Aggies1322 said:

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TheBonifaceOption said:

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BREAKING: Senator Bernie Sanders announces he will work with Trump to cap the credit card interest rates at 10%

— Eric Daugherty (@EricLDaugh) November 15, 2024

You know the state of the Democrat Party is bad when the far left loon is more moderate than the average thought leader on the left.

I for one would love to see this policy in place. Usury is wicked.

---

You know that means that the average American will no longer have credit available to them, right? An unsecured credit product to everyday Americans comes with a ton of risk.. the banks will no longer take that risk if the govt caps what they can charge. Horrible policy imo.

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Good. Usery is wrong.

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Who decides that line? I agree that predatory lending is wrong, but the rate is more a function of the product than wanting to steal money from people. Again, you can't expect unsecured debt to questionable borrowers to be the same as what you'd give a company with collateral and $40MM EBITDA and a 1.5x FCCR. Which is what you'd be doing by capping it at 10%. Shouldn't you be working today anyways?

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The government decides.

I work every day.

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Amen! (To the second part)

Logos Stick said:

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No one is forced to take out a 28% unsecured any loan.

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FIFY

Driving a nice car, living in a mortgaged house instead of renting, buying retail items on credit, taking vacations, etc. are NOT something you are entitled to. Either save up the money to purchase outright or plan on sacrificing if you struggle to pay back borrowed money.

TheBonifaceOption said:

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MemphisAg1 said:

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TheBonifaceOption said:

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Mas89 said:

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halfastros81 said:

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Great . Unconstitutional Government intervention always works out so well.

---

Usury rates are illegal. The question being asked is above what level is usury? Payday loan rate acceptable?
Who sets the rate that is legal? 10, 15, 20, 25?

What's your number that is legal?

---

The Church of England determined that usury (sin) is asking for a return greater than 10%.

Biblically speaking lending internally (within the Tribe) cannot have an interest rate, but lending externally would still have regulation of usury.

---

That was coupled with the moral obligation to repay your debts.

When people walk away from their debts -- which many credit card holders do -- then the cost of interest goes up due to higher risk. It's really simple.

---

Can lenders make a profit at 10%? Yes. The issue here is that they have a fiduciary responsibility to maximize profits. So they tested and weighing all the benefits and liabilities and settled at the rates given the habits of the common American.

I find it somewhat amusing that the same people that complain about "government interfering in the muh free markets" are the same people who complain about the national debt. Austerity is good for X but not for Y, because Y can generally only make good decisions (Hayek and Friedman convinced me so.)

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Sure they can.

But, they'd have to restrict issuing their cards to anybody with a credit score above 800 to ensure the default rate didn't screw them.

That means the VAST majority of people can't get cards and people who currently have them will probably have them cancelled.

Yesterday said:

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Jack Boyett said:

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Maybe the average guy not having a credit card would be a net positive

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That is not the governments job.

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But true nonetheless

Just use cash for everything

DaveRamsey said:

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Just use cash for everything

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You miss out on reward points. I havnt carried a balance on a credit card since I was 17 because , well, I'm an adult. I think between the wife and I, we've purchased over 15,000 dollars of goods for free using reward points. My entire Milwaukee stable was bought with discover points on someone's else's interest payment. I don't want that to come to an end. I want others to make high interest minimum payments because those pay for my stuff so I don't have to. I depend on other peoples financial incompetence and irresponsibility!!

Dammit Bernie, don't ruin that, you *******!!!

DaveRamsey said:

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Just use cash for everything

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I get between $11K and $13K every year in rewards points. Combine that with my free hotel nights with Omni and airline miles and we vacation two of our six times a year basically for free.

Leave credit card companies alone. If people are too stupid to properly use them, that is on that person.

Think you need to tone it down if you can't recognize that a poster with the username DaveRamsey is doing a bit.

BrazosDog02 said:

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DaveRamsey said:

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Just use cash for everything

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You miss out on reward points. I havnt carried a balance on a credit card since I was 17 because , well, I'm an adult. I think between the wife and I, we've purchased over 15,000 dollars of goods for free using reward points. My entire Milwaukee stable was bought with discover points on someone's else's interest payment. I don't want that to come to an end. I want others to make high interest minimum payments because those pay for my stuff so I don't have to. I depend on other peoples financial incompetence and irresponsibility!!

Dammit Bernie, don't ruin that, you *******!!!

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I've lost track of all the hotel rooms and flights I've helped my kids out with...

And then the numerous flights to the Caribbean for me and my GF.

All off of points.

That will be the first thing to go if this happens...

Did Moses chisel "thou shall charge more than 10% usury" on a lost tablet? How did Bernie and Trump get to 10% vs 9 %vs 11%?

While personally I have always wisely used my credit cards, I think there need to be regulations on it just like on gambling, alcohol, smoking, etc. Excessive spending is a vice and can ruin lives, communities and the economy. We do a poor job teaching financial literacy in this country, market products and services to the populace 24/7 and provide easy credit and lending for even those individuals that have a history of terrible money making decisions.

I'm all for self-responsibility but some of the lending out there is slum lord level. Targeting those that do not know better until it is too late.

What if I said, you don't do as good a job with your credit card spending as you think you do. Let me decide what the credit card company can charge and extend to you. After all, I won an election.

People and evidently politicians are ignorant on VISA and MC. They make ZERO income on late fees or interest rates. ONLY the resellers of credit, like banks or others, make interest on late payment and carried balances.

Yet I see VISA and MC testifying to congress on why they make such high profit margins. They charge about 3% and keep less than half of that after passing on the margin to the reseller.

TheBonifaceOption said:

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BREAKING: Senator Bernie Sanders announces he will work with Trump to cap the credit card interest rates at 10%

— Eric Daugherty (@EricLDaugh) November 15, 2024

You know the state of the Democrat Party is bad when the far left loon is more moderate than the average thought leader on the left.

I for one would love to see this policy in place. Usury is wicked.

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This is my shocked face that the senile socialist wants to fix prices on othe largest commodity in the US.

Biden and Kamala screwed up so bad that now Bernie working with Trump.

How demoralizing is that?

How about we limit the Federal income tax rate to the same rate that credit card interest is capped. At least I use my credit card to buy things I want. My income is stolen by the IRS and 90% is spent on things I'd never support

FIDO*98* said:

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How about we limit the Federal income tax rate to the same rate that credit card interest is capped. At least I use my credit card to buy things I want. My income is stolen by the IRS and 90% is spent on things I'd never support

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This! When do we start seeing the plans for the people actually paying most of the fed income taxes?

TheBonifaceOption said:

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Quote:

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You know that means that the average American will no longer have credit available to them, right? An unsecured credit product to everyday Americans comes with a ton of risk.. the banks will no longer take that risk if the govt caps what they can charge. Horrible policy imo.

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Back away from the ledge.

First of all, CC companies do not make their money on the "28%" interest. They make their golden egg on the transaction fee at swipe, so jot that down. You think you're pulling one over on Visa by paying your balance off every month?

Further, creditors lose billions on bankruptcy. This would reduce the amount of loss dramatically. In reality this would result CCs reducing the limit they allow to be borrowed.

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This may have already been addressed in this thread, but you're conflating the brand name on the card (Visa, MC) with who holds the risk. Visa/MC get their take on the swipe. The issuing bank holds the credit risk. USAA grants me the unsecured loan and is who will be coming after me if I stop paying my bills. Visa just handles the transactions on USAA's behalf because it would be a waste of money for USAA (and Capital One, etc) to build their own transactions network at every retailer in the world

If Bernie is siding with you on an economic policy, then your economic policy is wrong.

Interest rates should be set by the free market alone.