Zelensky:

Ag with kids said:

---

bonfarr said:

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Good now we need to tell Zelenskiy he has to hold elections.

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Explain how those elections occur in the Russian occupied territory.

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Bookmarked. I'll be back when, not if but when Ukraine does exactly this. Those territories aren't Ukraine anymore, and it's time to let go.

Old Army Ghost said:

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Tea Party said:

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If EU wants to support Ukraine because they are worried about Russia then the EU can start pitching in.

---

why f16 doesnt know facts is beyond me

The US has committed the second-largest amount of money to help Ukraine overall including military, financial and humanitarian assistance after the European Union, which has sent a total of around $93.3 billion, according to Kiel Institute data. That figure does not include contributions from individual EU member states, which are counted separately.

But unlike some of Ukraine's smaller allies, Washington's contributions account for 0.3% of its GDP, data shows.

Denmark, Norway and the Baltic states bordering Russia Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia are committing a greater proportion of their wealth to the war at more than 1% of their GDP.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/05/world/ukraine-money-military-aid-intl-dg/index.html

---

Because people who want to willfully ignore the truth in favor of their own deluded version of reality exist on both sides of the aisle and point at each other like Spiderman.

The big govt dudes are such a weird crowd

bonfarr said:

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Ag with kids said:

---

bonfarr said:

---

Good now we need to tell Zelenskiy he has to hold elections.

---

Explain how those elections occur in the Russian occupied territory.

---

Ukraine doesn't possess those territories so they don't get to vote?

---

So if someone walks into your house and says, "Mine now," I guess it's not yours anymore.

Putin about to get told what's up by Daddy Trump

ABATTBQ11 said:

---

bonfarr said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

bonfarr said:

---

Good now we need to tell Zelenskiy he has to hold elections.

---

Explain how those elections occur in the Russian occupied territory.

---

Ukraine doesn't possess those territories so they don't get to vote?

---

So if someone walks into your house and says, "Mine now," I guess it's not yours anymore.

---

Yes

Sincerely,
Founders of a country named America

BlueTaze said:

---

Why do we GAF about eastern euro borders involving a dispute between corrupt and more corrupt countries?

---

Part of the answer to your question is the fact that we made promises when Ukraine gave up their nukes. If we aren't willing to live by our promises, we shouldn't be making them.

Logos Stick said:

---

ABATTBQ11 said:

---

bonfarr said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

bonfarr said:

---

Good now we need to tell Zelenskiy he has to hold elections.

---

Explain how those elections occur in the Russian occupied territory.

---

Ukraine doesn't possess those territories so they don't get to vote?

---

So if someone walks into your house and says, "Mine now," I guess it's not yours anymore.

---

Yes

Sincerely,
Founders of a country named America

---

When have we invaded a sovereign neighbor completely unprovoked and annexed their land in a pure land grab?

oldyeller said:

---

BlueTaze said:

---

Why do we GAF about eastern euro borders involving a dispute between corrupt and more corrupt countries?

---

Part of the answer to your question is the fact that we made promises when Ukraine gave up their nukes. If we aren't willing to live by our promises, we shouldn't be making them.

---

So did Putin. How did that work out

Teslag said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

ABATTBQ11 said:

---

bonfarr said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

bonfarr said:

---

Good now we need to tell Zelenskiy he has to hold elections.

---

Explain how those elections occur in the Russian occupied territory.

---

Ukraine doesn't possess those territories so they don't get to vote?

---

So if someone walks into your house and says, "Mine now," I guess it's not yours anymore.

---

Yes

Sincerely,
Founders of a country named America

---

When have we invaded a sovereign neighbor completely unprovoked and annexed their land in a pure land grab?

---

So it has to be a neighbor? We didn't do a "pure land grab" in your opinion so it's ok? Colonizing is different than annexation?!?!

Lololololololol

aggiehawg said:

---

oldyeller said:

---

BlueTaze said:

---

Why do we GAF about eastern euro borders involving a dispute between corrupt and more corrupt countries?

---

Part of the answer to your question is the fact that we made promises when Ukraine gave up their nukes. If we aren't willing to live by our promises, we shouldn't be making them.

---

So did Putin. How did that work out

---

Putin wasn't president when Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons.

Logos Stick said:

---

Teslag said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

ABATTBQ11 said:

---

bonfarr said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

bonfarr said:

---

Good now we need to tell Zelenskiy he has to hold elections.

---

Explain how those elections occur in the Russian occupied territory.

---

Ukraine doesn't possess those territories so they don't get to vote?

---

So if someone walks into your house and says, "Mine now," I guess it's not yours anymore.

---

Yes

Sincerely,
Founders of a country named America

---

When have we invaded a sovereign neighbor completely unprovoked and annexed their land in a pure land grab?

---

So it has to be a neighbor? We didn't do a "pure land grab" in your opinion so it's ok? Colonizing is different than annexation?!?!

Lololololololol

---

Yes. It's different. Apples and hand grenades.

Teslag said:

---

Logos Stick said:

---

ABATTBQ11 said:

---

bonfarr said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

bonfarr said:

---

Good now we need to tell Zelenskiy he has to hold elections.

---

Explain how those elections occur in the Russian occupied territory.

---

Ukraine doesn't possess those territories so they don't get to vote?

---

So if someone walks into your house and says, "Mine now," I guess it's not yours anymore.

---

Yes

Sincerely,
Founders of a country named America

---

When have we invaded a sovereign neighbor completely unprovoked and annexed their land in a pure land grab?

---

Mexico should be the first just so we can create a DMZ at the border. Only need about a mile of their land that we can carpet with land mines.

Quote:

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Zelensky says Ukraine war will end 'faster' under Trump presidency

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So end it now, why wait.... Oh right the 10% to the big guy kickbacks.

doubledog said:

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Quote:

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Zelensky says Ukraine war will end 'faster' under Trump presidency

---

So end it now, why wait.... Oh right the 10% to the big guy kickbacks.

---

It takes two to tango. Once Trump is president he will be able to lay down the law with Russia and force them to the table.

doubledog said:

---

Quote:

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Zelensky says Ukraine war will end 'faster' under Trump presidency

---

So end it now, why wait.... Oh right the 10% to the big guy kickbacks.

---

It is amazing that this keeps getting parroted when Zelensky is the reformist candidate and all of Hunter and Joe's dealings were under the regime that he ran on replacing. And there's 0 evidence whatsoever of any kind grift or theft. It's almost like Biden finally figured out supporting Ukraine was a good thing and then it has to be a bad thing for MAGA. 100% if Trump decided to give Ukraine weapons everyone crying about it would be calling for more, more, more.

Putin was absolutely provoked. It's not even debatable. The war could have easily been avoided. Acknowledging this reality doesn't make you pro Russia/Putin.

agsalaska said:

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Tea Party said:

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Good. End the flow of US taxpayer money to Ukraine and let the war end how it must.

If EU wants to support Ukraine because they are worried about Russia then the EU can start pitching in.

---

That's not how it is happening at all.


Trump wants Ukraine to win. This idea that Trump was going to abandon Zelensky is just right wing internet garbage.

My guess is when Trump and Musk called Zelensky they told him something like 'we are in your side but this killing has got to stop. We will handle Putin for you but be ready to make some land concessions.' Zelensky couldn't trust Biden to have the strength to help negotiate.


Edit to add- it will be over before summer. Ukraine will have embarrassed Russia in front of the world.

---

. Winner. More Russian targets that hurt more may well be open.

ABATTBQ11 said:

---

doubledog said:

---

Quote:

---

Zelensky says Ukraine war will end 'faster' under Trump presidency

---

So end it now, why wait.... Oh right the 10% to the big guy kickbacks.

---

It is amazing that this keeps getting parroted when Zelensky is the reformist candidate and all of Hunter and Joe's dealings were under the regime that he ran on replacing. And there's 0 evidence whatsoever of any kind grift or theft.It's almost like Biden finally figured out supporting Ukraine was a good thing and then it has to be a bad thing for MAGA. 100% if Trump decided to give Ukraine weapons everyone crying about it would be calling for more, more, more.

---

You don't actually believe that do you? You're just talking tough on the internet and got ahead of yourself, right?

https://www.dodig.mil/In-the-Spotlight/Article/3940692/press-release-audit-of-the-dods-execution-of-funds-to-assist-ukraine-report-no/

BlueTaze said:

---

Putin was absolutely provoked. It's not even debatable. The war could have easily been avoided. Acknowledging this reality doesn't make you pro Russia/Putin.

---

This is bull****.

For one, the supposed provocation was never mentioned by Putin. All he said before invading was that Ukraine was full of fascists threatening ethnic Russians, which is the same crap exist he's been using to annex territories for the last two decades.

For two, he pulled defenses and personnel positions that would be defending against Europe and NATO in some hypothetical and far-fetched invasion of Russia. He also drove even more neighbors into NATO membership that completely locked Kaliningrad within NATO countries. If his provocation was somehow NATO and European encroachment, he's completely lost the objective.

For three, the areas he's been trying to annex for the last 15 years just happen to be the parts that are profitable and that Ukrainians want to keep it off Russian influence. Putin is an old school Russian imperialist who liked having the Soviet vassal states feeding mother Russia, and that's his only motivation here. This is a resource grab because Ukraine decided to finally throw off the yoke of Soviet/Russian influence and domination and his ability to meddle in Ukrainian affairs was minimized.

Making excuses for never ending Russian aggression and rejecting reality in favor of a dictator does in fact make you pro Russia/Putin

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

ABATTBQ11 said:

---

doubledog said:

---

Quote:

---

Zelensky says Ukraine war will end 'faster' under Trump presidency

---

So end it now, why wait.... Oh right the 10% to the big guy kickbacks.

---

It is amazing that this keeps getting parroted when Zelensky is the reformist candidate and all of Hunter and Joe's dealings were under the regime that he ran on replacing. And there's 0 evidence whatsoever of any kind grift or theft.It's almost like Biden finally figured out supporting Ukraine was a good thing and then it has to be a bad thing for MAGA. 100% if Trump decided to give Ukraine weapons everyone crying about it would be calling for more, more, more.

---

You don't actually believe that do you? You're just talking tough on the internet and got ahead of yourself, right?

https://www.dodig.mil/In-the-Spotlight/Article/3940692/press-release-audit-of-the-dods-execution-of-funds-to-assist-ukraine-report-no/

---

Since you posted without comment, I'll spell it out for everyone who can actually use logic:

It's a link to a report summary that says the DOD didn't have adequate supporting documentation for $1.1 billion of aid given in 2022. That's it. There's no evidence of grift or theft, just that the DOD didn't document everything sufficiently for an audit.

So, no, what you've posted is not evidence of theft or grift or impropriety. It's the equivalent of the IRS saying, "Hey, you didn't fill out these forms or provide enough receipts," not the IRS saying, "We have evidence that you purposefully misclassified transactions and embezzled money. Here's a warrant for your arrest and we'll see you in court." There is a world of difference between the two, but you either know that and are willfully ignorant of it or you don't and actually think this is some kind of "gotcha."


ETA Better yet, it's like 50-something former intelligence officials saying Hunter Biden's laptop could be Russian disinformation and liberals running away with that and taking it as confirmation that is and always was disinformation, except in this case you're the one making the non sequitur and throwing this around as evidence when it doesn't actually say what you purport it to.

C@LAg said:

---

the little punk is going to have to start doing some chores if he wants his allowance money.

---

Naah. I am done.
CUT OFF THE MONEY.

No chores, no money. Z needs to GTFO.

GAC06 said:

---

The EU doesn't need to "start" pitching in, they've spent more than us

---

Great. Now they can't can pay for ALL of the war.

ABATTBQ11 said:

---

Making excuses for never ending Russian aggression and rejecting reality in favor of a dictator does in fact make you pro Russia/Putin

---

There was a deal on the table that avoided war. The Biden administration had Zelensky walk away from it, then Kamala publicly expressed Americas intent to back Ukraine in joining NATO. Ukraine joining NATO was the line in the sand for Putin. He invaded shortly after that.

This doesn't make me pro Putin. It makes me aware of actual events that have transpired. It doesn't really matter if you refuse to accept the reality. It's all been documented. Prior US admins had promised Putin that Ukraine wouldn't join NATO.

Provocation is different than justification. For some reason people like you can't tell the difference. In your simple mind, I am excusing, or justifying the actions of Putin and therefore I'm "pro Russia".

If a 250lb man beats the shyt out of a woman for hitting his car with a bat, I would also acknowledge he was provoked. Doesn't mean it was justified or that I'm making excuses.

People like you are why unnecessary wars continue to be funded.

Didn't they sign a document saying it was Russian misinformation and not that it could be?

ABATTBQ11 said:

---

PlaneCrashGuy said:

---

ABATTBQ11 said:

---

doubledog said:

---

Quote:

---

Zelensky says Ukraine war will end 'faster' under Trump presidency

---

So end it now, why wait.... Oh right the 10% to the big guy kickbacks.

---

It is amazing that this keeps getting parroted when Zelensky is the reformist candidate and all of Hunter and Joe's dealings were under the regime that he ran on replacing. And there's 0 evidence whatsoever of any kind grift or theft.It's almost like Biden finally figured out supporting Ukraine was a good thing and then it has to be a bad thing for MAGA. 100% if Trump decided to give Ukraine weapons everyone crying about it would be calling for more, more, more.

---

You don't actually believe that do you? You're just talking tough on the internet and got ahead of yourself, right?

https://www.dodig.mil/In-the-Spotlight/Article/3940692/press-release-audit-of-the-dods-execution-of-funds-to-assist-ukraine-report-no/

---

Since you posted without comment, I'll spell it out for everyone who can actually use logic:

It's a link to a report summary that says the DOD didn't have adequate supporting documentation for $1.1 billion of aid given in 2022. That's it. There's no evidence of grift or theft, just that the DOD didn't document everything sufficiently for an audit.

So, no, what you've posted is not evidence of theft or grift or impropriety. It's the equivalent of the IRS saying, "Hey, you didn't fill out these forms or provide enough receipts," not the IRS saying, "We have evidence that you purposefully misclassified transactions and embezzled money. Here's a warrant for your arrest and we'll see you in court." There is a world of difference between the two, but you either know that and are willfully ignorant of it or you don't and actually think this is some kind of "gotcha."


ETA Better yet, it's like 50-something former intelligence officials saying Hunter Biden's laptop could be Russian disinformation and liberals running away with that and taking it as confirmation that is and always was disinformation, except in this case you're the one making the non sequitur and throwing this around as evidence when it doesn't actually say what you purport it to.

---

1.1 billion dollars going missing is evidence of gift. To support your original claim which I put in bold, every dollar would have to be accounted for. Its not. HTH

BlueTaze said:

---

ABATTBQ11 said:

---

Making excuses for never ending Russian aggression and rejecting reality in favor of a dictator does in fact make you pro Russia/Putin

---

There was a deal on the table that avoided war. The Biden administration had Zelensky walk away from it, then Kamala publicly expressed Americas intent to back Ukraine in joining NATO. Ukraine joining NATO was the line in the sand for Putin. He invaded shortly after that.

This doesn't make me pro Putin. It makes me aware of actual events that have transpired. It doesn't really matter if you refuse to accept the reality. It's all been documented. Prior US admins had promised Putin that Ukraine wouldn't join NATO.

Provocation is different than justification. For some reason people like you can't tell the difference. In your simple mind, I am excusing, or justifying the actions of Putin and therefore I'm "pro Russia".

If a 250lb man beats the shyt out of a woman for hitting his car with a bat, I would also acknowledge he was provoked. Doesn't mean it was justified or that I'm making excuses.

People like you are why unnecessary wars continue to be funded.

---

Message board posters control DoD budgets??

Mas89 said:

---

GAC06 said:

---

The EU doesn't need to "start" pitching in, they've spent more than us

---

Great. Now they can't can pay for ALL of the war.

---

And it's an illusion, and their total economic/military aid is probably at best similar to our own, if not lower when factoring in EU plus individual Euro nation contributors.

Remember most Euro militaries are relatively toothless, at this point, so inflated/manipulated numbers as to military/economic aid around the value of assistance is a silly game (and oh by the way, our 'depreciated' military aid also means we have to spend a comparative fortune to replace the old stuff).

As is the myth that there is no corruption in 'aid' or war spending. To destroy a dying nation.

More interesting information.https://t.co/ExIZN4Dx2X

— Armchair Warlord (@ArmchairW) November 16, 2024

And Russians are more satisfied with life/the direction of their country than ever, essentially.

From the "Russia's collapse is imminent" series. pic.twitter.com/FUsomwdMAW

— Olga Bazova (@OlgaBazova) November 16, 2024

bonfarr said:

---

Ag with kids said:

---

bonfarr said:

---

Good now we need to tell Zelenskiy he has to hold elections.

---

Explain how those elections occur in the Russian occupied territory.

---

Ukraine doesn't possess those territories so they don't get to vote?

---

If they hold elections and exclude those areas, they've ceded them by default. And if they hold them WHILE occupied, then Putin will receive 42069% of the vote...

That's what happens if they happen BEFORE negotiations to end this *****

That's a bad idea.

That's more like The Fart of the Deal...




End it first. Get all the territory negotiated and THEN hold those elections.

Psycho Bunny said:

---

It's hard to fight a war, when daddy cuts off the cash flow.

---

Yeah that's not what's gonna happen. Unlike this board, Trump and his advisors understand the vital strategic interest America has in not ceding anymore of Ukraine to Russia. What's gonna happen is America will continue to fund them in the short term, Trump will broker a deal with Russia to end the war at some point and he will be the bad guy that Zelensky gets to go to his people to blame for having to cede conquered territory in the deal.

The issue with Biden and the EU previously has been that nobody has been willing to step in, offer an off ramp and be willing to take the heat from the Ukrainian people and international press for doing so in order to win the war. Trump, say what you want about him, has no issue with being thought of poorly by the international press.

BlueTaze said:

---

ABATTBQ11 said:

---

Making excuses for never ending Russian aggression and rejecting reality in favor of a dictator does in fact make you pro Russia/Putin

---

There was a deal on the table that avoided war. The Biden administration had Zelensky walk away from it, then Kamala publicly expressed Americas intent to back Ukraine in joining NATO. Ukraine joining NATO was the line in the sand for Putin. He invaded shortly after that.

This doesn't make me pro Putin. It makes me aware of actual events that have transpired. It doesn't really matter if you refuse to accept the reality. It's all been documented. Prior US admins had promised Putin that Ukraine wouldn't join NATO.

Provocation is different than justification. For some reason people like you can't tell the difference. In your simple mind, I am excusing, or justifying the actions of Putin and therefore I'm "pro Russia".

If a 250lb man beats the shyt out of a woman for hitting his car with a bat, I would also acknowledge he was provoked. Doesn't mean it was justified or that I'm making excuses.

People like you are why unnecessary wars continue to be funded.

---

Yeah...

Putin said give us half of Ukraine and we won't invade you.

Why Ukraine didn't say yes to that deal is baffling...




BTW it's nice that you believe Putin's propaganda.

I mean, he's stated numerous times his intent to subsume Ukraine into Russia because his view is that they are actually historically Russian.

But, it was Kamala saying that they might join NATO that crossed the line. Of course...



Now...I AM sure that if he thought seriously that they were going to join, then that sped up his timeline to invade. Because he knew that the second they joined, then all of Ukraine was FOREVER off the table...

BlueTaze said:

---

Putin was absolutely provoked. It's not even debatable. The war could have easily been avoided. Acknowledging this reality doesn't make you pro Russia/Putin.

---

False. It was a land grab. Putin simply wanted Ukraine to be a part of Russia. Ukraine's only provocation is that they had the audacity to exisf.

ABATTBQ11 said:

---

BlueTaze said:

---

Putin was absolutely provoked. It's not even debatable. The war could have easily been avoided. Acknowledging this reality doesn't make you pro Russia/Putin.

---

This is bull****.

For one, the supposed provocation was never mentioned by Putin. All he said before invading was that Ukraine was full of fascists threatening ethnic Russians, which is the same crap exist he's been using to annex territories for the last two decades.

For two, he pulled defenses and personnel positions that would be defending against Europe and NATO in some hypothetical and far-fetched invasion of Russia. He also drove even more neighbors into NATO membership that completely locked Kaliningrad within NATO countries. If his provocation was somehow NATO and European encroachment, he's completely lost the objective.

For three, the areas he's been trying to annex for the last 15 years just happen to be the parts that are profitable and that Ukrainians want to keep it off Russian influence. Putin is an old school Russian imperialist who liked having the Soviet vassal states feeding mother Russia, and that's his only motivation here. This is a resource grab because Ukraine decided to finally throw off the yoke of Soviet/Russian influence and domination and his ability to meddle in Ukrainian affairs was minimized.

Making excuses for never ending Russian aggression and rejecting reality in favor of a dictator does in fact make you pro Russia/Putin

---

Just because the response wasn't justified doesn't mean they weren't provoked. It is not debatable that actions by the US/Ukraine/EU leading up to the invasion provoked Putin.