GAO: F-35 fighter still not mission ready

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techno-ag
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AG
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/f-35-fighter-has-failed-meet-annual-mission-capable-goal-6-years-straight-213732

Quote:

The F-35 Lightning II, a cornerstone of U.S. military air superiority, faces significant readiness challenges. Despite the U.S. military operating 630 of the aircraft, a Government Accountability Office (GAO) report reveals that all three branches flying the F-35 have failed to meet mission-capable (MC) rate targets for six consecutive years.

These issues persist despite $12 billion spent on sustainment. While readiness challenges are widespread across U.S. aircraft, the F-35's modernity underscores the urgency of resolving maintenance and spare parts shortfalls to counter threats like China and Russia.

Maybe after Elon finishes with DC he can turn his attention to inefficiencies at the Pentagon.
Trump will fix it.
wannaggie
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You're wrong. There's no inefficiency in military contracting.

The money is very efficiently going exactly where the various participants want it to go.
Decay
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AG
I get the argument that you spend crazy amount of money on these for pilot safety.

But we live in a time where you could have 10 remotely piloted F-16s for the price of one F-35.

We just can't keep writing blank checks to the military contractors in the name of security. Efficiency can't come soon enough.
GAC06
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AG
New F-16's run 63million. Current deliveries of F-35A's are 82.5 million
revvie
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AG
techno-ag said:

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/f-35-fighter-has-failed-meet-annual-mission-capable-goal-6-years-straight-213732

Quote:

The F-35 Lightning II, a cornerstone of U.S. military air superiority, faces significant readiness challenges. Despite the U.S. military operating 630 of the aircraft, a Government Accountability Office (GAO) report reveals that all three branches flying the F-35 have failed to meet mission-capable (MC) rate targets for six consecutive years.

These issues persist despite $12 billion spent on sustainment. While readiness challenges are widespread across U.S. aircraft, the F-35's modernity underscores the urgency of resolving maintenance and spare parts shortfalls to counter threats like China and Russia.

Maybe after Elon finishes with DC he can turn his attention to inefficiencies at the Pentagon.
An uncle was an aerospace engineer and later management at Lockheed Martin and he recounted story of building and testing prototype aircraft that was accepted by Air Force. Just as it was going into production, a cosmetic change in cockpit layout was demanded which required design changes which caused billions of dollars of cost overruns to original contract.
Shoefly!
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techno-ag said:

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/f-35-fighter-has-failed-meet-annual-mission-capable-goal-6-years-straight-213732

Quote:

The F-35 Lightning II, a cornerstone of U.S. military air superiority, faces significant readiness challenges. Despite the U.S. military operating 630 of the aircraft, a Government Accountability Office (GAO) report reveals that all three branches flying the F-35 have failed to meet mission-capable (MC) rate targets for six consecutive years.

These issues persist despite $12 billion spent on sustainment. While readiness challenges are widespread across U.S. aircraft, the F-35's modernity underscores the urgency of resolving maintenance and spare parts shortfalls to counter threats like China and Russia.

Maybe after Elon finishes with DC he can turn his attention to inefficiencies at the Pentagon.

Has anyone asked if Hunter is selling all the spare parts to Chyna? He's good at that!
BurnetAggie99
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Should of made more F-22 Raptors it's the superior Jet
pfo
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AG
Drones seem to be taking on a huge roll on the battlefield in Ukraine. I think more money spent on air, land and sea drones and less on maned craft as the way to go.
C@LAg
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let's just buy the J-35 from the Chinese.

It is 100% our tech anyways, and likely to be cheaper.
ABATTBQ11
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techno-ag said:

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/f-35-fighter-has-failed-meet-annual-mission-capable-goal-6-years-straight-213732

Quote:

The F-35 Lightning II, a cornerstone of U.S. military air superiority, faces significant readiness challenges. Despite the U.S. military operating 630 of the aircraft, a Government Accountability Office (GAO) report reveals that all three branches flying the F-35 have failed to meet mission-capable (MC) rate targets for six consecutive years.

These issues persist despite $12 billion spent on sustainment. While readiness challenges are widespread across U.S. aircraft, the F-35's modernity underscores the urgency of resolving maintenance and spare parts shortfalls to counter threats like China and Russia.

Maybe after Elon finishes with DC he can turn his attention to inefficiencies at the Pentagon.



This doesn't mean what your thread title says or what you seem to think it means...
ABATTBQ11
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BurnetAggie99 said:

Should of made more F-22 Raptors it's the superior Jet


Not for the F-35's mission...
ABATTBQ11
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Decay said:

I get the argument that you spend crazy amount of money on these for pilot safety.

But we live in a time where you could have 10 remotely piloted F-16s for the price of one F-35.

We just can't keep writing blank checks to the military contractors in the name of security. Efficiency can't come soon enough.


And those 10 remotely piloted F-16's are susceptible to jamming and interference, as well as much cheaper SAM's. You'll be burning through them and spending way more in the long run because . It's like a professional buying cheap **** from harbor freight and burning through time and tools trying to get a job done instead of buying a more expensive but more reliable and accurate name brand tool and just doing it once and moving on.
EX TEXASEX
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Quit making a mountain out of a mole hill. After 8 more upcoming TR 3 missed deadlines. They will get their act together for Technology Refresh 4 and the plane will be fully functional by 2038. The ten year anniversary of the ccp taking over Taiawn
#FJB
bmks270
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ABATTBQ11 said:

Decay said:

I get the argument that you spend crazy amount of money on these for pilot safety.

But we live in a time where you could have 10 remotely piloted F-16s for the price of one F-35.

We just can't keep writing blank checks to the military contractors in the name of security. Efficiency can't come soon enough.


And those 10 remotely piloted F-16's are susceptible to jamming and interference, as well as much cheaper SAM's. You'll be burning through them and spending way more in the long run because . It's like a professional buying cheap **** from harbor freight and burning through time and tools trying to get a job done instead of buying a more expensive but more reliable and accurate name brand tool and just doing it once and moving on.


AI pilots solve this, and will be superior to human pilots. The future involves a mix of human and Ai piloted aircraft and drones.
ABATTBQ11
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bmks270 said:

ABATTBQ11 said:

Decay said:

I get the argument that you spend crazy amount of money on these for pilot safety.

But we live in a time where you could have 10 remotely piloted F-16s for the price of one F-35.

We just can't keep writing blank checks to the military contractors in the name of security. Efficiency can't come soon enough.


And those 10 remotely piloted F-16's are susceptible to jamming and interference, as well as much cheaper SAM's. You'll be burning through them and spending way more in the long run because . It's like a professional buying cheap **** from harbor freight and burning through time and tools trying to get a job done instead of buying a more expensive but more reliable and accurate name brand tool and just doing it once and moving on.


AI pilots solve this, and will be superior to human pilots. The future involves a mix of human and Ai piloted aircraft and drones.


It really doesn't because an effective layered SAM defense would eat the F-16's alive, regardless of who or what is piloting them. There's a reason the Russians and Ukrainians aren't venturing close to their battle lines with fighter and attack aircraft anymore.

China could manufacture cheap drones til kingdom come, but they're devoting a ton of resources to fifth gen and LO aircraft because they know that those drones wouldn't be able to strike strategic targets or get far behind enemy lines against a technological peer like us. We have more and better eyes in the sky than the Russians, and we can better defend against the cheap drones that they and Ukraine are sending at each other. See Iran's barrages and attacks against Israel that amounted to nothing because of US and Israeli aircraft and SAMs. Now see Israel's response with their F-35's that neutered Iran's air defenses and struck military targets in Tehran with impunity. That's why China and we have chosen the stealth/LO route.

It has less to do with pilot safety than an ability to actually achieve the mission.
Jack Squat 83
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techno-ag said:

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/f-35-fighter-has-failed-meet-annual-mission-capable-goal-6-years-straight-213732

Quote:

The F-35 Lightning II, a cornerstone of U.S. military air superiority, faces significant readiness challenges. Despite the U.S. military operating 630 of the aircraft, a Government Accountability Office (GAO) report reveals that all three branches flying the F-35 have failed to meet mission-capable (MC) rate targets for six consecutive years.

These issues persist despite $12 billion spent on sustainment. While readiness challenges are widespread across U.S. aircraft, the F-35's modernity underscores the urgency of resolving maintenance and spare parts shortfalls to counter threats like China and Russia.

Maybe after Elon finishes with DC he can turn his attention to inefficiencies at the Pentagon.


Put him and his people in charge of this and it gets fixed quick. Hell the team is getting closer to putting a man on Mars, I think they could figure out snags with mere jet fighters with half their brains tied behind their backs. I'm kinda serious.

Ridiculous how anything and EVERYTHING regarding Fed government purchases and projects is a complete **** show. I hope the hell Trump can fix a lot of it.

With the amazingly crappy track record and guaranteed cost overruns, offer a hell of a bonus if below budget or even ON budget. It's really not rocket science, although as some have stated these dollars are circling back big time, to literally everyone in DC.

Infuriating.
Pretty sure most of you don’t know me.
AtlAg05
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I serious doubt he would want to assist in any program directly related to weapons of war.
Coog97
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Should've gone with Boeing.
“Things weren’t gentle and politically correct in those days. We weren’t candy asses. Okay?”
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“Who are you to doubt El Dandy? ‘Cause this guy’s a serious professional.”
-Bret Hart
EX TEXASEX
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Coog97 said:

Should've gone with Boeing.
Their planes are pretty deadly, so you make a good point !!!
#FJB
IslanderAg04
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BurnetAggie99 said:

Should of made more F-22 Raptors it's the superior Jet


That or f15E's. Both are superior on paper.
GAC06
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We're still buying F-15's
MouthBQ98
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F15EX program will give us much cheaper air frames with huge capacity and a powerful radar, electronics and modern interface with other sensor and aircraft platforms. It can sit back and provide support for stealthy forward elements with longer range missiles and would be a highly capable if not stealthy weapons platform. It is cheap to operate and there is a lot of familiarity with the platform.

The F-35 is highly capable, but it is extremely resource intensive to operate and maintain, and they has to improve.

We need to step up unmanned assets that can work in conjunction with our platforms, and they don't need to all be extremely high tech high cost if large numbers of lower tech platforms will also work,

nortex97
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Meh, I don't think the F-35 is actually the 'boondoggle' it is portrayed as. Yes, overly compromised by the joint-requirements but it works and works well.

To the point above, the F-22 is in truth outdated in many respects for the mission. NGAD has been 'slowed' likely because there are 'black' programs that are working/in service at this time. F-15EX has overall been a good program based on a limited ability to procure and train/equip National Guard units to transition.

"We" need to let go of some of the 'everything is a disaster' angle imho as some DoD things are actually working fairly well.
Brewskis
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The F-15EX is about $5-10 million more expensive than an F-35, actually. Both airframes are needed for the future fight for different reasons.
IslanderAg04
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GAC06 said:

We're still buying F-15's


Still in use and the EX version will be purchased up until 2030. Mainly due to shortage of f22's, and the delays in the f35 program, that and they have a much heavier payload cap. There are about 400ish still in service.

nortex97
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The Eagles are a great stand off launch platform too. And intercepting Tu-95's off Alaska doesn't really require a stealth fighter.
Quote:

Gen. Joseph F. Dunford Jr., Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, told members of the Senate Armed Services Committee a few days later the "framework" for the decision came from a study of the future needs of the military's tactical aircraft fleet, which showed the Air Force has a shortage in its number of aircraft and the amount of ordnance those aircraft could carry.

When combined with the fact the F-15C will age out in the 2027-28 time frame, Dunford said "the best solution" was to go with the F-15EX to "backfill" the F-15 fleet.

The EX-variant initially would only be "slightly" cheaper to buy than a new F-35, but it will be more than 50 percent cheaper than the Joint Strike Fighter to operate over its life, Dunford said.

More of the calculus was explained by Maj. Gen. David A. Krumm, USAF's Director of Strategic Plans and Requirements, who told Air Force Magazine the thinking behind the controversial add of Eagles. Essentially, he said, the National Defense Strategy demands more combat capacity immediately, or as soon as possible. And while buying more F-35s is the Air Force's preferred solution, the F-15EX move could put more iron on the ramp more quickly; mostly because the transition time for individual units would take months rather than years.

"Cost of ownership," is the key factor in the F-15EX's favor, Krumm said.

"There's 80-90 percent commonality" between the F-15C and the F-15EX, Krumm said, noting that the new aircraft can use all the aerospace ground equipment now used for the C-model of the Eagle.

"That's all already in the inventory," he said, but the similarity of aircraft also means "we're looking at a transition time of monthsless than six months"to transition units now flying the C-model to the EX.

"Typically, [with] an Active unit, that [process] takes 18 months; with the Guard, it takes three years." He went on to say that "If you average that out, Active and Guard, each time we do that we save about two years of readiness," meaning aircraft available for combat, "And that's important for us."
As stated/referenced, the plane/engines themselves are not cheaper, but the commonality/training/transition/operating costs are much lower and it just worked better in the short term.

All DoD procurements of course wind up being 'a bit of a mess' but this one is working relatively fast/well. The F-15C's they are replacing are literally falling apart and 40-ish years old. Refitting them/extending them for another 10+ years to wait on more F-35's was going to be much 'dumber.'
ts5641
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techno-ag said:

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/f-35-fighter-has-failed-meet-annual-mission-capable-goal-6-years-straight-213732

Quote:

The F-35 Lightning II, a cornerstone of U.S. military air superiority, faces significant readiness challenges. Despite the U.S. military operating 630 of the aircraft, a Government Accountability Office (GAO) report reveals that all three branches flying the F-35 have failed to meet mission-capable (MC) rate targets for six consecutive years.

These issues persist despite $12 billion spent on sustainment. While readiness challenges are widespread across U.S. aircraft, the F-35's modernity underscores the urgency of resolving maintenance and spare parts shortfalls to counter threats like China and Russia.

Maybe after Elon finishes with DC he can turn his attention to inefficiencies at the Pentagon.
Companies paid hundreds of millions of dollars and not delivering is inexcusable!
Brewskis
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AG
The EX will do much more than intercepting Tu-95s with the Air National Guard. The Kadena AB Eagle units in Okinawa, Japan will be getting the EX starting next year or 2026 depending on Boeing delivery schedules.

Some of the woes of EX production speaks of how far Boeing has fallen, though. The F-35 production is going well comparatively.
rwtxag83
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nortex97 said:

Meh, I don't think the F-35 is actually the 'boondoggle' it is portrayed as. Yes, overly compromised by the joint-requirements but it works and works well.

To the point above, the F-22 is in truth outdated in many respects for the mission. NGAD has been 'slowed' likely because there are 'black' programs that are working/in service at this time. F-15EX has overall been a good program based on a limited ability to procure and train/equip National Guard units to transition.

"We" need to let go of some of the 'everything is a disaster' angle imho as some DoD things are actually working fairly well.
This.

If we had to go to war today, the F-35 may not do everything exactly as planned, but it would do the mission we need it to do, and be far better than our adversaries.
Greater love hath no man than this....
Trigon Jin
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BurnetAggie99 said:

Should of made more F-22 Raptors it's the superior Jet


aTmAg
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AG
BurnetAggie99 said:

Should of made more F-22 Raptors it's the superior Jet
It's superior in the things it was designed for, but inferior in the things the F-35 was designed for. That's why there is an F-35.
nortex97
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The issue is largely the age of the electronics for the -22. It was designed in the early 90's after all (for the most part) and I've read it has some ancient '486' era chips in it (though it's open and they are working on upgrading to the GRACE or "government reference architecture compute environment".)

Beautiful, capable aircraft no doubt but imagine running a desktop computer from the mid-90's today; it would be mind bogglingly difficult to upgrade to a competitive/modern software standard. And it's not just the chips, but the overall integration/software is at least 1.5 generations behind the -35, which was engineered to be rapidly upgradable partly due to what the USAF realized (too late) would become a problem down the road for the -22. All that is also a big part of the reason the notional "FB-22" concept just never got off the drawing board; too many big upgrades required, to say nothing of production equipment/tooling etc.
aTmAg
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nortex97 said:

The issue is largely the age of the electronics for the -22. It was designed in the early 90's after all (for the most part) and I've read it has some ancient '486' era chips in it (though it's open and they are working on upgrading to the GRACE or "government reference architecture compute environment".)

Beautiful, capable aircraft no doubt but imagine running a desktop computer from the mid-90's today; it would be mind bogglingly difficult to upgrade to a competitive/modern software standard. And it's not just the chips, but the overall integration/software is at least 1.5 generations behind the -35, which was engineered to be rapidly upgradable partly due to what the USAF realized (too late) would become a problem down the road for the -22. All that is also a big part of the reason the notional "FB-22" concept just never got off the drawing board; too many big upgrades required, to say nothing of production equipment/tooling etc.
The F-22 was written in Ada because back then the government required everything to be Ada (a stupid ass requirement). That requirement was revoked on subsequent aircraft because it was getting too expensive to find Ada programmers. So to re-write F-22 in C++ would be a monumental task. And to get the F-22 up to the F-35 level capability would be even worse. After all, the mechanical/aerodynamic part of the F-35 has been complete for decades now. It's the software that is a complete beotch.
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