Sims said:

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Cars also used to get you from point a to point b.

Now the car drives itself while you watch a movie with 7.1 surround and your heated massaging seat melts your cares away.

Maybe they need a lower end vehicle that accomplishes a task in a pragmatic way.

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If it isn't already abundantly clear, "they" do not want people having the ability to move freely wherever they want to go.

Tea Party said:

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CDUB98 said:

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I would seriously entertain a bare bones vehicle that could survive an EMP

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Not sure you understand how an EMP works.

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Are you saying electronic free vehicles could not survive an EMP?

Genuinely curious because I certainly am not an expert on EMP's and welcome new information.

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Jalopnik did an article a few years ago about EMPs and newer cars. Most cars would be fine, even if running when an EMP hit.

Used car prices were so nuts for awhile it made sense to pay a little more for new, with a better rate without the unknown baggage.

And in SE USA that means avoiding a vehicles that flooded. Unless they closed some loopholes its possible to clean a title by moving it to a different state with lax reporting laws.

AggieDruggist89 said:

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I struggle to comprehend people buying $90,000+ American Made SUVs.

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Go look at prices people are paying for boats.

Government allowing 8 year terms is part of the problem.

Funky Winkerbean said:

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AggieDruggist89 said:

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I struggle to comprehend people buying $90,000+ American Made SUVs.

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Go look at prices people are paying for boats.

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Yeah but Boat owners vote for Trump

So we good.

I understand that its not possible for everyone. But the greatest decision we've made for our family was traded the 2nd car (and admittedly house space) for walkability.

Its a LIFE changing; in all aspects. Its cheaper, better for your health, better for your mental health and day to day morale. Kids can and do walk much further than I thought they could/would and there's no battle to get into car.

Tea Party said:

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CDUB98 said:

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Quote:

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I would seriously entertain a bare bones vehicle that could survive an EMP

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Not sure you understand how an EMP works.

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Are you saying electronic free vehicles could not survive an EMP?

Genuinely curious because I certainly am not an expert on EMP's and welcome new information.

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An EMP fries all electrical circuits, not just electronics. Even on a carb car, it would fry your ignition system.

The only way you can protect them is with a faraday cage, but you really would not want to pay for one as a garage.

I could be wrong, but I think I'm correct. My head feels like crap, so I'm not firing on all cylinders.

I drive a 2019 GMC Sierra with 47K miles (It's not going anywhere anytime soon, trucks are too damn expensive to replace), ever since we moved from TX to OR our annual mileage has gone down substantially hence the low mileage, it only gets about 5K a year these days.

My wife drives a 2014 Prius with 115K miles (most from the old DFW commute) and we are starting to see some decline in economy due to the aging battery, we are "only" getting 47 mpg on road trips versus 52 mpg before. We are considering replacing it with something newer, partly because the Prius is a cheaply made car, the road noise has always been awful, the seats aren't really that comfy, but it suits the needs of what she wanted at the time (a cheap car that gets good mileage for a DFW commute.)

She is still leaning towards a hybrid for the mileage factor but does want to be able to sit up a little higher, so a mid-size SUV is her preference at this point (Rav4, etc.). I'm just a little bummed because we have a "car account" where we save money for the next inevitable purchase (we like to pay cash and not finance) but only have around $30K in there so if we buy something within the next year, we either have to finance part of it or pull from another account. If we ever get back to the dream world of 0% financing that won't be an issue though.

At this point it isn't really a "need" but more of a "want" especially since we like to take the hound with us on day trips to the coast and wouldn't mind a little more room on trips where we have more passengers than just to two of us (plus dog) and also have some of the better creature comforts that newer cars have. If we go in the Prius the backseat passengers have to deal with the pacing dog also. My wife loves the heated/cooled seats in my truck and the leather is easier to clean when dealing with dog floof than cloth seats. Plus in the winter, remote start and a heated steering wheel is a true blessing.

Dammit, I feel like I'm about to go car shopping.

there's no reasonable scenario for prices to come down on vehicles...short of a serious economic collapse which:
1) would make auto prices irrelevant to begin with
2) won't happen anyway because politicians will always prop up the economy in dire conditions.

Any speculation on how losses in EV sales are influencing higher IC prices?

Quote:

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Horses are cheap these days.

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Actually, good horses are higher than they've ever been...

Old May Banker said:

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Horses are cheap these days.

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Actually, good horses are higher than they've ever been...

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Friend just paid $30,000 for a roping horse for their kid.

Retooling plants to produce more electric vehicles - to meet government CAFE standards - cost billions. Of course prices sky rocketed. It's an albatross around the neck of legacy companies.

it used to make more sense to buy used cars too. That has changed in the last 5 years. I still buy them, but when you look at the price difference of a 2022 used car vs a new 2024....it's usually less than $2,000

Correct... you won't find a "sure nuff" decent using horse for much less that $15k today.

AggieDruggist89 said:

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I struggle to comprehend people buying $90,000+ American Made SUVs.

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That are still made with…foreign parts.

I think the Japanese and Korean brands are offering superior and more reliable products than Ford, GM, and Dodge.

Aggie95 said:

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it used to make more sense to buy used cars too. That has changed in the last 5 years. I still buy them, but when you look at the price difference of a 2022 used car vs a new 2024....it's usually less than $2,000

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Yep, my brother was looking for a car for one of his kids and they ended up buying a new Kia versus a used Honda since it wasn't a substantial difference, especially when considering the warranty with the new car.

Went through this trying to find something with AC ventilated seats. To get those I pretty much had to go with the highest trim on most vehicles. Ended up going with a "mid sized" Chevy Colorado that had them and it was still $43k.

For a Colorado. And that was with $5k off MSRP

New Toyota RAV4 base model is 29-31 k

New Toyota Corolla starts at about 22 k.



Those cars will run for years.

They don't sell cars like they used to.

You can't get an inexpensive base model with only the add ons you want.

You have to order ahead of time and buy a trim level with big packages where you buy it ALL to get one or two things you want.

Those packages and trim levels add hugely to the base cost. You also have difficulty in most models buying the cheaper models because everyone demands the higher end models so there are very limited runs of the cheaper versions. It's a sort of race to keep up with the Jones'. People demand the upgrades and features be standard so "they don't have to pay extra" for them and the effect is the cost of those demanding it becomes socialized to those that didn't want it but can't purchase without it.

Gigem314 said:

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AggieDruggist89 said:

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I struggle to comprehend people buying $90,000+ American Made SUVs.

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I think the Japanese and Korean brands are offering superior and more reliable products than Ford, GM, and Dodge.

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Hyundai/Kia don't appear to be as reliable as Toyota.

Nissan (French Renault) has death spiraled. Is France good for anything? This is a shame.

MouthBQ98 said:

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They don't sell cars like they used to.

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I think most today's cars are light years better...

Aggie95 said:

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it used to make more sense to buy used cars too. That has changed in the last 5 years. I still buy them, but when you look at the price difference of a 2022 used car vs a new 2024....it's usually less than $2,000

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Couple that with the fact you can get incentives and likely a better rate than through a bank (used), and it makes sense to buy new.

bmc13 said:

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Beat40 said:

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Sucks for those of us that want a truck slightly above base and it's $30K for 50-70K miles

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slightly above base options are a big part of the problem too. there are a few features that I would like. but the manufacturers won't give me those features without bundling them with a bunch of unwanted luxury features that drive the price up.

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THIS
THIS
THIS

SO MUCH THIS

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Hyundai/Kia don't appear to be as reliable as Toyota.

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I don't think this is true anymore. Especially Toyota having problems with their turbo motors.

Sell =/ make.

I think they make them great. Generally more reliable and capable than ever.

They just try to force you to buy upgrades you don't want or need by packaging them together more than ever. I understand it makes production easier and cheaper but it is annoying for a selective and budget sensitive buyer.

AggieDruggist89 said:

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Gigem314 said:

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AggieDruggist89 said:

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I struggle to comprehend people buying $90,000+ American Made SUVs.

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I think the Japanese and Korean brands are offering superior and more reliable products than Ford, GM, and Dodge.

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Hyundai/Kia don't appear to be as reliable as Toyota.

Nissan (French Renault) has death spiraled. Is France good for anything? This is a shame.

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Toyota whiffed recently with their new truck turbos. TBF they went with smaller displacements because of gov regs.

CDUB98 said:

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Aggie95 said:

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it used to make more sense to buy used cars too. That has changed in the last 5 years. I still buy them, but when you look at the price difference of a 2022 used car vs a new 2024....it's usually less than $2,000

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Couple that with the fact you can get incentives and likely a better rate than through a bank (used), and it makes sense to buy new.

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Eh... I don't know. On a whim, I looked at 2022 used and 2024 new Lexus ES350 and the difference in price is about $10,000.

techno-ag said:

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AggieDruggist89 said:

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Gigem314 said:

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AggieDruggist89 said:

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I struggle to comprehend people buying $90,000+ American Made SUVs.

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I think the Japanese and Korean brands are offering superior and more reliable products than Ford, GM, and Dodge.

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Hyundai/Kia don't appear to be as reliable as Toyota.

Nissan (French Renault) has death spiraled. Is France good for anything? This is a shame.

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Toyota whiffed recently with their new truck turbos. TBF they went with smaller displacements because of gov regs.

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Absolutely they did.

But 2024 has been a major new model year. You have to believe they will get it fixed. More so than other manufacturers, Toyota listens and takes Quality Improvement pretty seriously. Old adage of never buy a first year car.

Ooooooh, an anecdote.

AggieDruggist89 said:

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Gigem314 said:

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AggieDruggist89 said:

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I struggle to comprehend people buying $90,000+ American Made SUVs.

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I think the Japanese and Korean brands are offering superior and more reliable products than Ford, GM, and Dodge.

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Hyundai/Kia don't appear to be as reliable as Toyota.

Nissan (French Renault) has death spiraled. Is France good for anything? This is a shame.

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Toyota is still setting the standard there no doubt, but Hyundai/KIA are rising fast. Their SUVs are being mentioned in the same breath as Toyota.

Seriously, I'm almost 40 with two kids. The price of new SUVs and even minivans is downright absurd. Certified used, also absurd. Furthermore, on no planet is my wife driving around our kids in an unreliable 12K used car.