https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/cars-were-once-a-financial-engine-of-america-s-middle-class-now-they-re-a-wealth-killer/ar-AA1tXWhC

Good article. Interview with people over at Dave Ramsey's podcast series. Average new car prices approaching $50k, many payments over $1k/mo. Used car averages close to $30k. Sucking up more and more income, now a trap more so than it ever was.

Government regs don't help of course, nor does the push for electrification.

techno-ag said:

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https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/cars-were-once-a-financial-engine-of-america-s-middle-class-now-they-re-a-wealth-killer/ar-AA1tXWhC

Good article. Interview with people over at Dave Ramsey's podcast series. Average new car prices approaching $50k, many payments over $1k/mo. Used car averages close to $30k. Sucking up more and more income, now a trap more do than it ever was.

Government regs don't help of course, nor does the push for electrification.

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Honestly, besides housing costs and groceries, this is the next big thing that people want to see come back down to earth. Virtually no one's salaries climbed at the rate auto prices did the last few years. Everyone wants the economy to improve, and much sooner than later....the average American's patience for economic pain is paper thin right now, especially the middle class.

Used Toyota for the win.

Cars also used to get you from point a to point b.

Now the car drives itself while you watch a movie with 7.1 surround and your heated massaging seat melts your cares away.

Maybe they need a lower end vehicle that accomplishes a task in a pragmatic way.

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Virtually no one's salaries climbed at the rate auto prices did the last few years.

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Except those of the union auto worker.

Liberals would be happy if EVERYONE was forced onto public transportation.

I struggle to comprehend people buying $90,000+ American Made SUVs.

pdc093 said:

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Liberals would be happy if EVERYONE was forced onto public transportation.

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That is their goal.


But, of course, the elites can still drive around in their gas guzzling cars because they are better than us.

Sims said:

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Cars also used to get you from point a to point b.

Now the car drives itself while you watch a movie with 7.1 surround and your heated massaging seat melts your cares away.

Maybe they need a lower end vehicle that accomplishes a task in a pragmatic way.

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Bring back carbs and the only electronics in a vehicle is the AM radio.

I'm only somewhat joking as I would seriously entertain a bare bones vehicle that could survive an EMP .

Everyone also wants to live above their means.

Zoomers and Millennials expect the same lifestyle they experienced at the point when they left their parent's home, if they have even left. They also want status instead of living frugally:

• They want a brand new $35K+ car instead of a $12K used car, because god forbid someone isn't impressed with their ride.
• They want to live in a 1BR apartment in the nicest part of town so they can walk to nice restaurants, bars, and shopping, because god forbid they live with a few roommates.
• They want designer clothing and accessories, because god-forbid others see them as cheap.
• They want to travel and go out to party multiple times a week, because what kind of crazy world would it be if they couldn't life that extravagant weekend lifestyle?!
• They want the newest and nicest technology. A 2 Yr old iPhone is not good enough, they need to buy the latest and greatest iPhone every year.

And then they complain about life being expensive. I agree, it is more expensive than it should be. But they make it so much harder on themselves.

I've also heard people talk about not having money left over for their savings after all their expenses. What a backwards way of looking at your finances. They can't conceive of the idea that you put your money into your savings FIRST, and then look at the remainder and make your budgetary decisions.

15% of my income is taken out between 401K and my other investments before I even consider my budget for home, auto, and other expenses.

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I would seriously entertain a bare bones vehicle that could survive an EMP

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Not sure you understand how an EMP works.

My truck is a 2013 with 161k miles. I wish I could buy a new one, but I'm too fearful of the future economic situation.

AggieDruggist89 said:

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I struggle to comprehend people buying $90,000+ American Made SUVs.

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When you add the insurance cost to that it would end up costing more than my mortgage. The pricing is totally out of whack.

Government efficiency regulations need to be loosened
The EV push needs to stop (let it be market driven not policy driven)
Manufacturers need to stop bloating every vehicle they make (in size AND features)
Insurance industry needs....something. The costs are outrageous. I don't know what the fix here might be other than cheaper vehicles to start with.

In 2008 I bought a new "loaded" Nissan Versa for 13k. Keyless start and Bluetooth. Big deal really. The base model was new for like 9k.

I don't think you can buy a new car now for under 20k. Even a relatively small one with no bells and whistles.

Lathspell said:

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Everyone also wants to live above their means.

Zoomers and Millennials expect the same lifestyle they experienced at the point when they left their parent's home, if they have even left. They also want status instead of living frugally:

• They want a brand new $35K+ car instead of a $12K used car, because god forbid someone isn't impressed with their ride.
• They want to live in a 1BR apartment in the nicest part of town so they can walk to nice restaurants, bars, and shopping, because god forbid they live with a few roommates.
• They want designer clothing and accessories, because god-forbid others see them as cheap.
• They want to travel and go out to party multiple times a week, because what kind of crazy world would it be if they couldn't life that extravagant weekend lifestyle?!
• They want the newest and nicest technology. A 2 Yr old iPhone is not good enough, they need to buy the latest and greatest iPhone every year.

And then they complain about life being expensive. I agree, it is more expensive than it should be. But they make it so much harder on themselves.

I've also heard people talk about not having money left over for their savings after all their expenses. What a backwards way of looking at your finances. They can't conceive of the idea that you put your money into your savings FIRST, and then look at the remainder and make your budgetary decisions.

15% of my income is taken out between 401K and my other investments before I even consider my budget for home, auto, and other expenses.

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Serious question, how many millennials do you know that are still living in the city (with roommates?), traveling all the time, and partying every weekend? I feel like your definition of millennial is stuck 10-15 years in the past, most of us late-30s and settled down with a family.

Besides, none of that has anything to do with the fact that cars are way too expensive. You just wanted to get a rant in.

philiah06 said:

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People keep saying this, but we just bought a new Honda Pilot (old model January 2023) for 40k. My wife told me the price and I was like write the check, pay that thing off.

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The fact you reacted that way when hearing a new Honda Pilot was only $40K should tell you how out of whack things are. Looking at the Honda of Katy site, the lowest starting price is $41K. $52K for all the bells and whistles.

I get the price is what the market is, but there is no way Hodna Pilots are worth $40K+ in reality.

Lathspell said:

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Everyone also wants to live above their means.

Zoomers and Millennials expect the same lifestyle they experienced at the point when they left their parent's home, if they have even left. They also want status instead of living frugally:

• They want a brand new $35K+ car instead of a $12K used car, because god forbid someone isn't impressed with their ride.
• They want to live in a 1BR apartment in the nicest part of town so they can walk to nice restaurants, bars, and shopping, because god forbid they live with a few roommates.
• They want designer clothing and accessories, because god-forbid others see them as cheap.
• They want to travel and go out to party multiple times a week, because what kind of crazy world would it be if they couldn't life that extravagant weekend lifestyle?!
• They want the newest and nicest technology. A 2 Yr old iPhone is not good enough, they need to buy the latest and greatest iPhone every year.

And then they complain about life being expensive. I agree, it is more expensive than it should be. But they make it so much harder on themselves.

I've also heard people talk about not having money left over for their savings after all their expenses. What a backwards way of looking at your finances. They can't conceive of the idea that you put your money into your savings FIRST, and then look at the remainder and make your budgetary decisions.

15% of my income is taken out between 401K and my other investments before I even consider my budget for home, auto, and other expenses.

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Yeah it's the people's fault for wanting to live and not the fault of the system obliterating affordable vehicles for people.

My wife and I are in the top 5% household now and these car prices are insane. $1000 a month payment? Sure we could handle that but no car is worth that amount. What the **** is a person who makes the median income for a family supposed to do to afford a vehicle? Are they just supposed to walk to and from work or get on public transportation that sucks and is full of violent criminals?

This kind of tone def and over the top response is a huge part of why things are going to end up blowing apart when the economy dips.