C@LAg said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

Have you looked at dem total vote totals historically?

2020 was a huge outlier. If it smells like a fish…

---

outliers happen. and the 2020 vote was a HUGE outlier because of COVID impacts and the amount of hate Trump had. largest event outlier since WW2.

2020 had lots of people sitting at home, scared about money, and trump made an easy target for Dems and moderates to focus on.


Yes. there was cheating, especially in pretty obvious metro areas. Absolutely, and in some shocking numbers in some areas. Most of us agree to that.

But 12-20MM worth? No.

---

I love that you call trump an easy target. What makes him an easy target is he had an R behind his name. Whoever followed Obama was going to be given such vitriol (assuming it wasn't a dem) because they left so much dirty laundry. They were at full scale war against Americans then and it took us 8 years to wake up and realize it.

Wipe the voter rolls after every year election and eliminate mail in vote. If you want to vote, you have to give a little effort. If you can't dedicate a couple hours for every election, including registering online and going out to vote, you shouldn't vote.

It's not up to government to make voting as easy as possible for every situation for every citizen. If you're on a business trip for a month, sorry. If you're sick and leave the house, sorry. Only the military can vote remotely. That's how you get election integrity.

Dan Scott said:

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When it's all done, Harris will be around 73M votes and Trump around 76M. Trump gained 2M and Harris lost 8M voters.

There were about 500K less votes in Cook County, Illinois. About 300K less voters than 2016. 2020 was a lot of people voted that never voted and they were mostly Biden voters. This year there was nothing to get them to vote. No Covid no social unrest. This is a relatively calm election season.

Red voters showed up and Blue didn't.

---

This is opinion and not fact. When looking at the actual data, anytime you have a huge outlier in a dataset, it requires one to analyze what might have caused it. Was it social unrest because of Covid and George Floyd? If so, why are those people no longer upset? Why is the same Trump they were deathly scared of being on the ballot yet again not enough to get them to stay motivated to vote for Kamala when Joe ran equally on nothing with lesser rally turnout?

The only "reasonable" conclusion (which requires someone themself being reasonable to be able to come to it) when considering how deep blue areas changed laws at the last second to allow mass ballot harvesting, is that many many many people voted in 2020 who either weren't allowed to, or straight didn't know they voted. Any other conclusion requires a suspension of logic.

Dan Scott said:

---

Wipe the voter rolls after every year election and eliminate mail in vote. If you want to vote, you have to give a little effort. If you can't dedicate a couple hours for every election, including registering online and going out to vote, you shouldn't vote.

It's not up to government to make voting as easy as possible for every situation for every citizen. If you're on a business trip for a month, sorry. If you're sick and leave the house, sorry. Only the military can vote remotely. That's how you get election integrity.

---

why are you so racist.

and hate women.

and minorities.

and probably kick puppies and spit on orphans in your spare time./

Perhaps 10 million plus Democrats were abducted by aliens pretending to be Moloch? Or.... maybe they never existed.......

C@LAg said:

---

Dan Scott said:

---

Wipe the voter rolls after every year election and eliminate mail in vote. If you want to vote, you have to give a little effort. If you can't dedicate a couple hours for every election, including registering online and going out to vote, you shouldn't vote.

It's not up to government to make voting as easy as possible for every situation for every citizen. If you're on a business trip for a month, sorry. If you're sick and leave the house, sorry. Only the military can vote remotely. That's how you get election integrity.

---

why are you so racist.

and hate women.

and minorities.

and probably kick puppies and spit on orphans in your spare time./

---

Because I'm a Democrat according to some.

AVX Engineer said:

---

Biden supposedly got 82M votes in 20.
Historically the total votes cast have increased each presidential election year. Pretty linear by the way. 20 was a big anomaly.

So, why did Harris get 12M votes less than Biden?
Why are we back on the predictive line with this election?
What possibly could have been the difference?

Thank you for everyone who poll watched.
Thank you to state officials who implemented election law changes to protect the vote.

---

Just takes doing actual math instead of following propaganda to find them.

https://www.allsides.com/blog/misinformation-watch-misleading-election-vote-gap-theory-goes-viral

1 million more people voted in 2024 than 2020. Trump was within 1 million of Biden's 2020 vote total.

TheEternalOptimist said:

---

Perhaps 10 million plus Democrats were abducted by aliens pretending to be Moloch? Or.... maybe they never existed.......

---

Or maybe they voted for Trump. It's truly something to watch all the fan fiction even after a Republican sweep.

waco_aggie05 said:

---

C@LAg said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

Have you looked at dem total vote totals historically?

2020 was a huge outlier. If it smells like a fish…

---

outliers happen. and the 2020 vote was a HUGE outlier because of COVID impacts and the amount of hate Trump had. largest event outlier since WW2.

2020 had lots of people sitting at home, scared about money, and trump made an easy target for Dems and moderates to focus on.


Yes. there was cheating, especially in pretty obvious metro areas. Absolutely, and in some shocking numbers in some areas. Most of us agree to that.

But 12-20MM worth? No.

---

I love that you call trump an easy target. What makes him an easy target is he had an R behind his name. Whoever followed Obama was going to be given such vitriol (assuming it wasn't a dem) because they left so much dirty laundry. They were at full scale war against Americans then and it took us 8 years to wake up and realize it.

---

What makes him an easy target is being a loud mouth abrasive individual.

AgLA06 said:

---

TheEternalOptimist said:

---

Perhaps 10 million plus Democrats were abducted by aliens pretending to be Moloch? Or.... maybe they never existed.......

---

Or maybe they voted for Trump. It's truly something to watch all the fan fiction even after a Republican sweep.

---

Did Trump get 81M votes?

AgLA06 said:

---

waco_aggie05 said:

---

C@LAg said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

Have you looked at dem total vote totals historically?

2020 was a huge outlier. If it smells like a fish…

---

outliers happen. and the 2020 vote was a HUGE outlier because of COVID impacts and the amount of hate Trump had. largest event outlier since WW2.

2020 had lots of people sitting at home, scared about money, and trump made an easy target for Dems and moderates to focus on.


Yes. there was cheating, especially in pretty obvious metro areas. Absolutely, and in some shocking numbers in some areas. Most of us agree to that.

But 12-20MM worth? No.

---

I love that you call trump an easy target. What makes him an easy target is he had an R behind his name. Whoever followed Obama was going to be given such vitriol (assuming it wasn't a dem) because they left so much dirty laundry. They were at full scale war against Americans then and it took us 8 years to wake up and realize it.

---

What makes him an easy target is being a loud mouth abrasive individual.

---

You people will never learn. The country that apparently hated him in record numbers in 2020 apparently preferred him in a landslide victory 4 years later. Don't logically think about it. Just assume 2020 was legit and then everyone changed their mind 4 years later while the most angry subset against him stayed home.

dermdoc said:

---

The question to me is not the exact number but was it large enough to flip the election to Biden.

I just have a really hard time believing Joe Biden got the highest number of total votes in US history.

---

That is because you, like me, remember Biden failing so spectacularly in his 1988 campaign, and struggle to believe a compulsive liar like him could receive the most votes in US history.

HowdyTexasAggies said:

---

AgLA06 said:

---

TheEternalOptimist said:

---

Perhaps 10 million plus Democrats were abducted by aliens pretending to be Moloch? Or.... maybe they never existed.......

---

Or maybe they voted for Trump. It's truly something to watch all the fan fiction even after a Republican sweep.

---

Did Trump get 81M votes?

---

Somewhere between 79-80M to Harris' 77-78M. But that would have required reading.

HowdyTexasAggies said:

---

IMO, Occam's Razor answer is Mail vote fraud. It was so damn easy to cheat in 2020.

---

You can say mail vote is Occam's Razor, because it relies on easily universally visible, fully documented facts that need no suppositions or assumptions. It's a case which can rest on its own merits.

Adding "fraud" and "cheat" removes it from the realm of Occam's Razor, because now you are relying on suppositions or assumptions about facts we do not know, because a ballot is a black box whose content is anonymized from the person who casts it. As a result, while your particular suppositions and assumptions about the content inside those ballots may be true, your theory must now join the crowd of other people of all sides who also have their own suppositions and assumptions which must be evaluated to determine which one is true. This puts your proposal out of scope for Occam's Razor, because all those other theories would then share equal claim that they are the proper result of applying Occam's Razor.

Therefore, it would be perfectly reasonable to say:
IMO, Occam's Razor answer is Mail vote. It was so damn easy to vote in 2020.

That is self-evident and universally agreed, AND is sufficient to explain such huge turnout among Democrats, for reasons I explain in my earlier post. Thus, in-scope for Occam's Razor.

Again, I'm not saying you're wrong and that there was no fraud/cheating. I'm only saying that your claims require an extensively detailed evidentiary-proof process like a court case or debate, rather than Occam's Razor.

Heineken-Ashi said:

---

AgLA06 said:

---

waco_aggie05 said:

---

C@LAg said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

Have you looked at dem total vote totals historically?

2020 was a huge outlier. If it smells like a fish…

---

outliers happen. and the 2020 vote was a HUGE outlier because of COVID impacts and the amount of hate Trump had. largest event outlier since WW2.

2020 had lots of people sitting at home, scared about money, and trump made an easy target for Dems and moderates to focus on.


Yes. there was cheating, especially in pretty obvious metro areas. Absolutely, and in some shocking numbers in some areas. Most of us agree to that.

But 12-20MM worth? No.

---

I love that you call trump an easy target. What makes him an easy target is he had an R behind his name. Whoever followed Obama was going to be given such vitriol (assuming it wasn't a dem) because they left so much dirty laundry. They were at full scale war against Americans then and it took us 8 years to wake up and realize it.

---

What makes him an easy target is being a loud mouth abrasive individual.

---

You people will never learn. The country that apparently hated him in record numbers in 2020 apparently preferred him in a landslide victory 4 years later. Don't logically think about it. Just assume 2020 was legit and then everyone changed their mind 4 years later while the most angry subset against him stayed home.

---

I voted for him. But don't let that stop you from continuing to show why so many are tired of the rhetoric and polarization of the right and left extremes.

Thankfully the middle can vote for policy.

With all the data science going on over the past decade can we get an explanation of where the votes went?

Also keep in mind that the record for the most votes of all time is held by a guy with full blown dementia, and Joe Biden retains his title as the most popular presidential candidate of all time.

Also wild to consider that Trump was charged with criminal fraud against the American people for questioning the this massive anomaly in 2020.

So some data science pro please explain the discrepancy and please use small words that we all can understand.

Perhaps the data scientists that explained the concept of 'viral interference' for why the flu disappeared during covid. Maybe they got the capacity for this?

Standing by.

AgLA06 said:

---

HowdyTexasAggies said:

---

Did Trump get 81M votes?

---

Somewhere between 79-80M to Harris' 77-78M. But that would have required reading.

---

the ACTUAL numbers right now are

74.3 Trump to 70.4 Harris. Outstanding uncounted ballots get nowhere near your fake numbers.

Dan Scott said:

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dermdoc said:

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Dan Scott said:

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In kentucky a solid red state.

Biden 770K votes, Trump 1.3M votes
Harris 700k voted, Trump 1.3M votes.

No reason to cheat in Kentucky. Harris got 70K fewer votes. There was no motivation to vote Blue like in 2020.

---

Why was there no blue motivation? She was running against the same guy.

---

Because this election season there is no Covid or mass social unrest. In 2020 the election was so in your face you couldn't go anywhere without talking about it. This year it's been calm. Anecdotal I know, but I know many people who voted in 2020 for first time because it was the thing to do and didn't care to this year.

---

"So in your face you couldn't go anywhere without talking about it" is exactly how I'd describe the 2024 election. In 2020, no one could go anywhere because of covid.

C@LAg said:

---

AgLA06 said:

---

HowdyTexasAggies said:

---

Did Trump get 81M votes?

---

Somewhere between 79-80M to Harris' 77-78M. But that would have required reading.

---

the ACTUAL numbers right now are

74.3 Trump to 70.4 Harris. Outstanding uncounted ballots get nowhere near your fake numbers.

---

All you have to do is read.

https://www.allsides.com/blog/misinformation-watch-misleading-election-vote-gap-theory-goes-viral

AgLA06 said:

---

HowdyTexasAggies said:

---

AgLA06 said:

---

TheEternalOptimist said:

---

Perhaps 10 million plus Democrats were abducted by aliens pretending to be Moloch? Or.... maybe they never existed.......

---

Or maybe they voted for Trump. It's truly something to watch all the fan fiction even after a Republican sweep.

---

Did Trump get 81M votes?

---

Somewhere between 79-80M to Harris' 77-78M. But that would have required reading.

---

Please share what trash you are reading!

Dan Scott said:

---

Wipe the voter rolls after every year election and eliminate mail in vote. If you want to vote, you have to give a little effort. If you can't dedicate a couple hours for every election, including registering online and going out to vote, you shouldn't vote.

It's not up to government to make voting as easy as possible for every situation for every citizen. If you're on a business trip for a month, sorry. If you're sick and leave the house, sorry. Only the military can vote remotely. That's how you get election integrity.

---

I largely agree with this, though a full wipe seems like excessive administrative burden. Still, the "give a little effort" part is always what I say every time there's the argument about ID requirements being some kind of sneaky disenfranchisement.

Elections are not surprises. There's no sneaky election.
We already know exactly, to the day, when the next Presidential election will be (well, unless you're a democrat in the reality-distortion bubble who believe Trump is going to dissolve Congress and turn the Castro into Auschwitz).
You have FOUR YEARS to figure it out.
You have FOUR YEARS to get an ID.
You have FOUR YEARS to check your eligibility.
You have FOUR YEARS to ask a friend or family member for a ride.
You have FOUR YEARS to ask to trade shifts with someone during the weeks of early voting.

I do, however, believe that Presidential Election Day should be an official holiday. Surely an election - with major practical consequences - is as important or more important than ceremonial observances like Labor Day and Columbus Day and Juneteenth? (Indeed, for the latter, wouldn't it be a much better way to implement the meaning of Juneteenth by making Election Day a holiday, thus freeing people to participate in their governance, rather than just another day to eat food and binge video streams at home?)

AgLA06 said:

---

C@LAg said:

---

AgLA06 said:

---

HowdyTexasAggies said:

---

Did Trump get 81M votes?

---

Somewhere between 79-80M to Harris' 77-78M. But that would have required reading.

---

the ACTUAL numbers right now are

74.3 Trump to 70.4 Harris. Outstanding uncounted ballots get nowhere near your fake numbers.

---

All you have to do is read.

https://www.allsides.com/blog/misinformation-watch-misleading-election-vote-gap-theory-goes-viral

---

Chat GTP is non biased in theory:

"As of November 9, 2024, the total vote counts for the 2024 U.S. presidential election are still being finalized, with several states continuing to tally ballots. Preliminary figures indicate that President-elect Donald Trump has received over 71 million popular votes, while Vice President Kamala Harris has garnered more than 66 million votes.

In the 2020 presidential election, President Joe Biden secured approximately 81.2 million votes, and former President Donald Trump received about 74.2 million votes.

Comparing these figures, the preliminary data suggests that both candidates in the 2024 election have received fewer votes than their counterparts in 2020. Specifically, Trump's vote count has decreased by approximately 3.2 million votes, and Harris's total is about 15.2 million votes less than Biden's 2020 tally.

Please note that these numbers are provisional and subject to change as remaining ballots are counted and official results are certified."

Quote:

---

The 81M is largely Dems running up the vote in blue states. They didn't come out this time.

---

Well, They didn't come out in 2020 either!

Backyard Gator said:

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Dan Scott said:

---

dermdoc said:

---

Dan Scott said:

---

In kentucky a solid red state.

Biden 770K votes, Trump 1.3M votes
Harris 700k voted, Trump 1.3M votes.

No reason to cheat in Kentucky. Harris got 70K fewer votes. There was no motivation to vote Blue like in 2020.

---

Why was there no blue motivation? She was running against the same guy.

---

Because this election season there is no Covid or mass social unrest. In 2020 the election was so in your face you couldn't go anywhere without talking about it. This year it's been calm. Anecdotal I know, but I know many people who voted in 2020 for first time because it was the thing to do and didn't care to this year.

---

"So in your face you couldn't go anywhere without talking about it" is exactly how I'd describe the 2024 election. In 2020, no one could go anywhere because of covid.

---

But that's the point -- there weren't other distractions. Jobs, weddings, church, school, school sports, pro sports, clubs, parties, movie theaters, concerts, cruises, road trips, flying to vacations.... All the things that take people into their own hobbies and lives and social circles, and away from the single mainstream experience.

In 2020 there were literally only two nationally-shared experiences everyone had to talk/think about: covid, and politics.

The arguments over covid policy brought a lot of people into the realm of politics for the first time, because for the first time EVERYONE had to recognize that their entire lives, including their ability to even leave their home and go somewhere, are owned by various levels of government. It was the first time everyone alive, from the Hedge Fund Managers in Manhattan to the concession-stand teenager at the movie theater in Waco, from the Oscar-winning actresses to the 93yo grampa in a nursing home, were all stakeholders in the same conversation. Suddenly, the government's actions mattered, to everyone, more than literally anything else in the world.

HowdyTexasAggies said:

---

AgLA06 said:

---

HowdyTexasAggies said:

---

AgLA06 said:

---

TheEternalOptimist said:

---

Perhaps 10 million plus Democrats were abducted by aliens pretending to be Moloch? Or.... maybe they never existed.......

---

Or maybe they voted for Trump. It's truly something to watch all the fan fiction even after a Republican sweep.

---

Did Trump get 81M votes?

---

Somewhere between 79-80M to Harris' 77-78M. But that would have required reading.

---

Please share what trash you are reading!

---

One of the few sources not on either extreme grifting on the gullible of either extreme.

https://www.allsides.com/blog/misinformation-watch-misleading-election-vote-gap-theory-goes-viral

HowdyTexasAggies said:

---

AgLA06 said:

---

C@LAg said:

---

AgLA06 said:

---

HowdyTexasAggies said:

---

Did Trump get 81M votes?

---

Somewhere between 79-80M to Harris' 77-78M. But that would have required reading.

---

the ACTUAL numbers right now are

74.3 Trump to 70.4 Harris. Outstanding uncounted ballots get nowhere near your fake numbers.

---

All you have to do is read.

https://www.allsides.com/blog/misinformation-watch-misleading-election-vote-gap-theory-goes-viral

---

Chat GTP is non biased in theory:

"As of November 9, 2024, the total vote counts for the 2024 U.S. presidential election are still being finalized, with several states continuing to tally ballots. Preliminary figures indicate that President-elect Donald Trump has received over 71 million popular votes, while Vice President Kamala Harris has garnered more than 66 million votes.

In the 2020 presidential election, President Joe Biden secured approximately 81.2 million votes, and former President Donald Trump received about 74.2 million votes.

Comparing these figures, the preliminary data suggests that both candidates in the 2024 election have received fewer votes than their counterparts in 2020. Specifically, Trump's vote count has decreased by approximately 3.2 million votes, and Harris's total is about 15.2 million votes less than Biden's 2020 tally.

Please note that these numbers are provisional and subject to change as remaining ballots are counted and official results are certified."

---

AgLA06 said:

---

C@LAg said:

---

AgLA06 said:

---

HowdyTexasAggies said:

---

Did Trump get 81M votes?

---

Somewhere between 79-80M to Harris' 77-78M. But that would have required reading.

---

the ACTUAL numbers right now are

74.3 Trump to 70.4 Harris. Outstanding uncounted ballots get nowhere near your fake numbers.

---

All you have to do is read.

https://www.allsides.com/blog/misinformation-watch-misleading-election-vote-gap-theory-goes-viral

---

From your link:

Quote:

---

AllSides created a rough estimate of what the turnout for Democrats and Republicans may be,

Contrary to the theory that Harris only received about 66 million votes, which is circulating online, we found Harris is estimated to receive about 77M votes (likely between 75-78M) and Trump is estimated to receive about 79M votes (likely between 77-80 million)

---

You're not posting ACTUAL numbers. Maybe they'll end up being right, but at least be honest about what you are posting.

It literally lists them based on remaining votes to be tabulated.

AgLA06 said:

---

It literally lists them based on remaining votes to be tabulated.

---

No, it doesn't:

Quote:

---

Looking at expected turnout from The Associated Press (Lean Left bias) and using The New York Times' (Lean Left bias) Election Model containing a popular vote estimate, AllSides created a rough estimate of what the turnout for Democrats and Republicans may be, using already available trends in election data. (We will update this as numbers continue to come in.)

Our estimate (which is just that, an estimate!)

---

Folks been harping on this 81M deal for 4-years until the point it is impossible to ignore.

One of the worst presidents of all time also got the most votes of all time.

I did the math this morning. It looks like once California and the other west coast moron states finish counting the gap between 2024 and 2020 will only be 2-3 million for total voters.

That's easily explained by hyperattention to politics due to Covid, BLM voter registration drives, and easy mass mail-in balloting.

BLM was a huge factor in 2020. 2024 urban participation in the election regressed to something similar to 2016 rates. Mail-ins mean people could be lazy and not go to an early voting location. A lot of states either did away with or significantly limited mail-in balloting this year.

Definitely too early to run with the "15 million fewer votes" angle. I imagine your estimate is close. I've said several times the difference could be from the change in MiB rules.

AVX Engineer said:

---

Biden supposedly got 82M votes in 20.
Historically the total votes cast have increased each presidential election year. Pretty linear by the way. 20 was a big anomaly.

So, why did Harris get 12M votes less than Biden?
Why are we back on the predictive line with this election?
What possibly could have been the difference?

Thank you for everyone who poll watched.
Thank you to state officials who implemented election law changes to protect the vote.

---

Some feminazi on Twitter was arguing the votes were suppressed by Republicans.

A non charismatic, old, white guy got WAY more votes than Obama or Hilary (or Kamala) coming off of an economy that was thriving for multiple years in the midst of a pandemic where people wouldn't leave their home in many parts of the country (especially the blue areas). Just the absolute perfect storm for mail in ballot fraud. Doesn't seem strange at all...haha.

Meanwhile, now that the economy has been horrible and people are super passionate about so many social issues, the total number of voters drops way down to historic levels again. Again, seems totally normal.