I totally understand business needs to have the ability of companies to hire critical workers, but it is being misused to hire foreign nationals at a fraction domestic workers wages. Had experience at company in oil/gas sector that used H1B hires for new employess. Paid less than half of American workers wages and threatened at end of their contract with withdrawal of green card if they didn't renew at same rate. We should put a tariff on foreign workers as well.
H1B Visa Misuse
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Last: 10 days ago by infinity ag
You millennials need to just work for half of market value to compete against these superior workers. /Boomercon
Meh. I'm all for bringing in highly skilled workers. That's the exact type of immigration we should be encouraging. Yeah some of them undercut American labor prices but that's life
They have to work extended hours as well or lose sponsorship.
It is a problem that won't be addressed because big tech companies love it.
Meanwhile foreign incursion continues to suppress our wages.
It is a problem that won't be addressed because big tech companies love it.
Meanwhile foreign incursion continues to suppress our wages.
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AG
Actually H-1Bs have to fit into a comparable wage category and the sponsor has to provide extensive backing information to demonstrate why the applicant is uniquely qualified for the position. The sponsor must provide examples of similar workers and what they are making.
Hiring information with actual wage has to be posted in the workplace as part of the application process thereby informing workers what the applicant is being paid for the position.
I understand that they may be hiring workers who are overqualified for the position in question, but they are paying them a comparable fair wage for the position they are being hired for and cannot move them to a higher position without amending the visa and doing the whole process over.
Hiring information with actual wage has to be posted in the workplace as part of the application process thereby informing workers what the applicant is being paid for the position.
I understand that they may be hiring workers who are overqualified for the position in question, but they are paying them a comparable fair wage for the position they are being hired for and cannot move them to a higher position without amending the visa and doing the whole process over.
Where I work, my company would not survive without H-1B job applicants. American universities are simply not graduating enough people with advanced STEM degrees to fill the demand (more on this in a minute). Almost all of our job applicants are foreigners from Asia.
The real issue is the demand for graduates with advanced degrees. Back in the day, a company would hire a green engineer fresh with a bachelor's degree and invest time training them with the specific skills and knowledge required by the company.
Maybe decades ago that bought loyalty, but eventually those formerly green engineers started leaving for higher paying positions elsewhere. Companies didn't want to invest the time, so they started seeking applicants with graduate degrees with very specific skills. They could hit the ground running.
Of course, the same thing now happens with the H-1B applicants. As soon as they get their green card (at company expense), they are out the door.
The real issue is the demand for graduates with advanced degrees. Back in the day, a company would hire a green engineer fresh with a bachelor's degree and invest time training them with the specific skills and knowledge required by the company.
Maybe decades ago that bought loyalty, but eventually those formerly green engineers started leaving for higher paying positions elsewhere. Companies didn't want to invest the time, so they started seeking applicants with graduate degrees with very specific skills. They could hit the ground running.
Of course, the same thing now happens with the H-1B applicants. As soon as they get their green card (at company expense), they are out the door.
We should require them to pay visa holders the same wages as citizens and then apply a 25% federal tax on the employer.revvie said:
I totally understand business needs to have the ability of companies to hire critical workers, but it is being misused to hire foreign nationals at a fraction domestic workers wages. Had experience at company in oil/gas sector that used H1B hires for new employess. Paid less than half of American workers wages and threatened at end of their contract with withdrawal of green card if they didn't renew at same rate. We should put a tariff on foreign workers as well.
If your company had to increase the salaries, they'd stimulate that supply as more kids would be drawn to a more lucrative career path.
I think the problem is most companies can't find the specific talent they need at the prices they prefer to pay. So bringing over the h1b employees really depresses the salaries in various fields over the long term. IMO.
I think the problem is most companies can't find the specific talent they need at the prices they prefer to pay. So bringing over the h1b employees really depresses the salaries in various fields over the long term. IMO.
revvie said:
I totally understand business needs to have the ability of companies to hire critical workers, but it is being misused to hire foreign nationals at a fraction domestic workers wages. Had experience at company in oil/gas sector that used H1B hires for new employess. Paid less than half of American workers wages and threatened at end of their contract with withdrawal of green card if they didn't renew at same rate. We should put a tariff on foreign workers as well.
Also they hire mostly people from pretty average at best universities. These universities are not in parentheses A&M in any way. They have to be trained quite a bit to get them up and running.
And also, most people don't know how the companies hire these worked instead of all the talent in the area of the job.
The job requirements are written very specifically to find only the graduates of these Indian or Pakistani universities for jobs that ONLY they have the specific skill for. Coding skills, engineering skills, so specific that only one or two people that are pre-targeted can fulfill perfectly.
They get paid maybe 40% less than US engineers or IT laborers. Sometimes less.
It's a scam.
I work in IT for a 'large financial institution in America'. We have not been allowed to hire on-shore employees in years. Everything is off-shore and then those employees are brought here on a work visa.
Only reason I still have a job is our business users refuse to work with offshore or h1b visa employees due to language issues. I get to serve as a go between.
Only reason I still have a job is our business users refuse to work with offshore or h1b visa employees due to language issues. I get to serve as a go between.
I don't believe you.
What was the position?
What was the H1B wage?
What was the domestic wage?
How did you know the H1B wage?
How did you know the domestic wage?
What was the position?
What was the H1B wage?
What was the domestic wage?
How did you know the H1B wage?
How did you know the domestic wage?
Curious about this.
What is the specific job description?
What are the education / degree requirements for employment?
What is the specific job description?
What are the education / degree requirements for employment?
The H1Bs I work with are definitely not the "best and the brightest."
Imagine - if we didn't import so many folks with mediocre skills (at best) we would be required to develop the careers of Americans through on-the-job training and mentorship. You want a "diverse" workforce, this is the way to do it.
Imagine - if we didn't import so many folks with mediocre skills (at best) we would be required to develop the careers of Americans through on-the-job training and mentorship. You want a "diverse" workforce, this is the way to do it.
The position?BusterAg said:
I don't believe you.
What was the position?
What was the H1B wage?
What was the domestic wage?
How did you know the H1B wage?
How did you know the domestic wage?
Geologist/Geophysicist/Geological Engineer
What was the H1B wage?
$60/hour. Placed through an agency that was owned by a friend of one of the companies principals.
What was the domestic wage?
$125/hour plus incentives.
How did you know the H1B wage?
They told me.
How did you know the domestic wage?
Worked as independent contractor for 20+ years. Average hourly wages varied over time from 2000 until now. The wages quoted are in the time frame covered.
Degree requirements?
At least BS or equivalent with English language skills. May be others that I am unaware.
The individual was well liked by contemporaries and now is back in his home country as we speak
JobSecurity said:
Meh. I'm all for bringing in highly skilled workers. That's the exact type of immigration we should be encouraging. Yeah some of them undercut American labor prices but that's life
Username definitely doesn't check out
Any time you have to compete with Indians for a job it is going to depress the wages. It happens at my job in the shopping industry and whenever we ask about raises they just say that they've got a list of applicants a mile long. It's infuriating.
Nm
“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience" - Mark Twain
nm
“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience" - Mark Twain
revvie said:The position?BusterAg said:
I don't believe you.
What was the position?
What was the H1B wage?
What was the domestic wage?
How did you know the H1B wage?
How did you know the domestic wage?
Geologist/Geophysicist/Geological Engineer
What was the H1B wage?
$60/hour. Placed through an agency that was owned by a friend of one of the companies principals.
What was the domestic wage?
$125/hour plus incentives.
How did you know the H1B wage?
They told me.
How did you know the domestic wage?
Worked as independent contractor for 20+ years. Average hourly wages varied over time from 2000 until now. The wages quoted are in the time frame covered.
Degree requirements?
At least BS or equivalent with English language skills. May be others that I am unaware.
The individual was well liked by contemporaries and now is back in his home country as we speak
You pay an engineer $260k per year base? Are you hiring?
nm
“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience" - Mark Twain
nm
“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience" - Mark Twain
JobSecurity said:
Meh. I'm all for bringing in highly skilled workers. That's the exact type of immigration we should be encouraging. Yeah some of them undercut American labor prices but that's life
Username does not check out.
We have an Indian at my job that works 12 hours days and weekends as well (this is a salaried position so he isn't making extra money). He travels every other week and is by far the hardest worker I've ever seen. There isn't really a point to what I'm saying other than most Indians I've met are extremely hard workers.
I'm sure autocorrect got you and changed shipping to shopping but it is funny to think that you're a professional shopper.Sea Speed said:
Any time you have to compete with Indians for a job it is going to depress the wages. It happens at my job in the shopping industry and whenever we ask about raises they just say that they've got a list of applicants a mile long. It's infuriating.
Difference between this and migrant laborers?
In 20 years when Americans are too dumb to do this type of skilled labor I can hear the liberal tears already. "But who will code the code?!?!"
In 20 years when Americans are too dumb to do this type of skilled labor I can hear the liberal tears already. "But who will code the code?!?!"
What you describe sounds to me like Capitalism at it's finest.goose91 said:
I work in IT for a 'large financial institution in America'. We have not been allowed to hire on-shore employees in years. Everything is off-shore and then those employees are brought here on a work visa.
Only reason I still have a job is our business users refuse to work with offshore or h1b visa employees due to language issues. I get to serve as a go between.
Does anyone know what would happen to companies like this one if they got rid of those employees and replaced them with Americans? Assuming all the positions can be filled by Americans.
There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance. Hippocrates
Ha yea, the professional shopper is my wife.
About the same thing that's going to happen when companies eventually offshore everything, and there are no American jobs left.
Or we get another 20-30% hike in goods because "muh tarrifs"
We live in a consumerist society, but I think a certain segment of the population has forgotten that you have to have people WORKING for the house of cards to work. And they have to be working jobs that actually pay enough to eat and stay alive.
I don't know why/how companies have forgotten that, but we're fast approaching a point where some concessions on profit percentages and earnings will have to be made, or the whole thing is going to come tumbling down, and noone will be rich anymore.
Or we get another 20-30% hike in goods because "muh tarrifs"
We live in a consumerist society, but I think a certain segment of the population has forgotten that you have to have people WORKING for the house of cards to work. And they have to be working jobs that actually pay enough to eat and stay alive.
I don't know why/how companies have forgotten that, but we're fast approaching a point where some concessions on profit percentages and earnings will have to be made, or the whole thing is going to come tumbling down, and noone will be rich anymore.
revvie said:
I totally understand business needs to have the ability of companies to hire critical workers, but it is being misused to hire foreign nationals at a fraction domestic workers wages. Had experience at company in oil/gas sector that used H1B hires for new employess. Paid less than half of American workers wages and threatened at end of their contract with withdrawal of green card if they didn't renew at same rate. We should put a tariff on foreign workers as well.
So basically legalized human trafficking?
Not terribly surprised.
Ag_of_08 said:
About the same thing that's going to happen when companies eventually offshore everything, and there are no American jobs left.
Or we get another 20-30% hike in goods because "muh tarrifs"
We live in a consumerist society, but I think a certain segment of the population has forgotten that you have to have people WORKING for the house of cards to work. And they have to be working jobs that actually pay enough to eat and stay alive.
I don't know why/how companies have forgotten that, but we're fast approaching a point where some concessions on profit percentages and earnings will have to be made, or the whole thing is going to come tumbling down, and noone will be rich anymore.
You made all great points. That's gonna be one hell of a needle to thread for those companies when that time comes.
There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the later ignorance. Hippocrates
I am a hardliner on immigration. I am also in the tech field for over 25 years.
Illegal Immigration
1. Stop all illegal immigration,
2. Deport all illegals.
Legal
1. We do not need any legal immigrants at this point of time. Esp in Tech. Block all H1Bs for 4 years for the market to stabilize. Make very very few exceptions. US is not the employment agency of the world. People from India seem to believe it is their God given right for jobs in the US.
Summary:
Stop H1B for 4 years. Allow very very few to come in only in super high need situations. Not more than 10 a year. After 4 years re-evaluate and open more slowly as needed.
Dems want a vote bank so they opened the gates.
Illegal Immigration
1. Stop all illegal immigration,
2. Deport all illegals.
Legal
1. We do not need any legal immigrants at this point of time. Esp in Tech. Block all H1Bs for 4 years for the market to stabilize. Make very very few exceptions. US is not the employment agency of the world. People from India seem to believe it is their God given right for jobs in the US.
Summary:
Stop H1B for 4 years. Allow very very few to come in only in super high need situations. Not more than 10 a year. After 4 years re-evaluate and open more slowly as needed.
Dems want a vote bank so they opened the gates.
torrid said:
Where I work, my company would not survive without H-1B job applicants. American universities are simply not graduating enough people with advanced STEM degrees to fill the demand (more on this in a minute). Almost all of our job applicants are foreigners from Asia.
What bull-sheet. You bought into corporate propaganda. If you remove all H1Bs, you will have some trouble for some time as the market adjusts. There are enough US citizens who will soon take their spot. But these cos want slaves. Who cannot leave and will work for slave wages.
lb3 said:We should require them to pay visa holders the same wages as citizens and then apply a 25% federal tax on the employer.revvie said:
I totally understand business needs to have the ability of companies to hire critical workers, but it is being misused to hire foreign nationals at a fraction domestic workers wages. Had experience at company in oil/gas sector that used H1B hires for new employess. Paid less than half of American workers wages and threatened at end of their contract with withdrawal of green card if they didn't renew at same rate. We should put a tariff on foreign workers as well.
Companies will cheat on this as there is no benchmark for US citizens. We aren't making widgets anymore. How will you compare across titles, type of work, years of exp etc? Not possible.
Just say "If you hire an H1B, you will pay them a minimum of $250k a year. Go ahead. Make my day!".
The number is adjusted based on geography. Bay Area/NYC is more. Arkansas would be lesser. But make it so that the company has a real real reason to hire that person and will pay for them.
See how many H1B slaves these cos pull in.
Ozzy Osbourne said:
The H1Bs I work with are definitely not the "best and the brightest."
Imagine - if we didn't import so many folks with mediocre skills (at best) we would be required to develop the careers of Americans through on-the-job training and mentorship. You want a "diverse" workforce, this is the way to do it.
I worked with H1Bs from India. They are not educated, many don't have degrees and they are posted as "experts". Years ago someone an Indian H1B from Columbus, OH was doing deployment of my code, he confesses at 2am that he had never seen the admin console in his life and wanted me to give him step by step instructions. This was before video calls so I could not see wtf he had in front of him. I wanted to kill him through the phone at that point.
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