Yesterday said:

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Neely was known as a criminal including assault. I donated to Penny's defense fund.

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Where can I donate?

Towns03 said:

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Yesterday said:

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Neely was known as a criminal including assault. I donated to Penny's defense fund.

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Where can I donate?

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https://givesendgo.com/daniel_penny?utm_source=sharelink&utm_medium=copy_link&utm_campaign=daniel_penny

I guess it will come down to the but-for again just like the Chauvin case?

Who?mikejones! said:

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No. I think it will come down to whether the jury decides penny was justified in protecting himself and the people on the train or if he shouldve just say there quietly like the govt demands

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going to be hard to do with a NY jury.

yes even New Yorkers are tired of ****ty people on subways, but they are not likely to be sympathetic to "choking" one who had not assaulted anyone else yet.

I am betting Penny is convicted.

The testimony of the others on the train will be tantamount imo

Who?mikejones! said:

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The testimony of the others on the train will be tantamount imo

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true, but comments made by passengers in the media since the event do not support that Neely was assaulting anyone. but it will be interesting if they concur with Penny's threat assessment of Neely.

Were people scared of him, that he MIGHT do something? Absolutely.

But other than throwing stuff around and screaming, he had not physically interacted/assaulted with anyone else.

Unless there is a lot of compelling evidence that he DID in fact assault others or was likely to... it will come down to whether deadly force was warranted against someone not assaulting anyone.

And since the max sentence (at least what I had previously read) is 20 years... I can easily see them (a NY jury) convicting in this case because the sentence is not overly harsh to Penny (as seen from a lib NYer POV).

C@LAg said:

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Who?mikejones! said:

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The testimony of the others on the train will be tantamount imo

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true, but comments made by passengers in the media since the event do not support that Neely was assaulting anyone.

Were people scared of him, that he MIGHT do something? Absolutely.

But other than throwing stuff around and screaming, he had not physically interacted/assaulted with anyone else.

Unless there is a lot of compelling evidence that he DID in fact assault others or was likely to... it will come down to whether deadly force was warranted against someone not assaulting anyone.

And since the max sentence (at least what I had previously read) is 20 years... I can easily see them (a NY jury) convicting in this case because the sentence is not overly harsh to Penny (as seen from a lib NYer POV).

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You do agree that the hypothetical "reasoning" you cite is idiotic and stupid, right?

I hear you.

But, if the defense can tie Neely's behavior to the broader behavior that nearly every new Yorker has seen or knows about and make that emotional connection of fear, I think it will be harder to get perry on murder.

Manslaughter is also an option, I believe, if I read the article right. That might be what comes down.

On a side note, I sometimes hate that we have to wait for the crazies or evil people to make the "first" move and then only react. It's often too late. If a guy, especially one with a history of assault and troublemaking, comes into a small public space, starts yelling, threatening and terrifying the people on it, I think the people should have every right to end it.

And, of course, this is ultimately a failure of the NYC govt and their abdication of their duties to maintain some level of decency on their public transportation.

aTmAg said:

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C@LAg said:

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Who?mikejones! said:

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The testimony of the others on the train will be tantamount imo

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true, but comments made by passengers in the media since the event do not support that Neely was assaulting anyone.

Were people scared of him, that he MIGHT do something? Absolutely.

But other than throwing stuff around and screaming, he had not physically interacted/assaulted with anyone else.

Unless there is a lot of compelling evidence that he DID in fact assault others or was likely to... it will come down to whether deadly force was warranted against someone not assaulting anyone.

And since the max sentence (at least what I had previously read) is 20 years... I can easily see them (a NY jury) convicting in this case because the sentence is not overly harsh to Penny (as seen from a lib NYer POV).

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You do agree that the hypothetical "reasoning" you cite is idiotic and stupid, right?

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More succinct:

Neely had not physically assaulted anyone on the train. There is no evidence from police or any other passengers in media stating that he had done anything other than threats and intimidation.

Penny, a military vet, used deadly force against someone who had not assaulted anyone else yet.

It is going to be a hard sell to a NY jury that this was self defense. Neely criminal history will not play favorably with jurors, but they will eb reminded to focus on the day in question as they had no knowledge of history on that day. They are more likely to convict because they are libs. And a 20 year sentence serve as a balm to the conscious of any jurors who might feel a little guilty convicting here.

C@LAg said:

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aTmAg said:

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C@LAg said:

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Who?mikejones! said:

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The testimony of the others on the train will be tantamount imo

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true, but comments made by passengers in the media since the event do not support that Neely was assaulting anyone.

Were people scared of him, that he MIGHT do something? Absolutely.

But other than throwing stuff around and screaming, he had not physically interacted/assaulted with anyone else.

Unless there is a lot of compelling evidence that he DID in fact assault others or was likely to... it will come down to whether deadly force was warranted against someone not assaulting anyone.

And since the max sentence (at least what I had previously read) is 20 years... I can easily see them (a NY jury) convicting in this case because the sentence is not overly harsh to Penny (as seen from a lib NYer POV).

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You do agree that the hypothetical "reasoning" you cite is idiotic and stupid, right?

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More succinct:

Neely had not physically assaulted anyone on the train. There is no evidence from police or any other passengers in media stating that he had done anything other than threats and intimidation.

Penny, a military vet, used deadly force against someone who had not assaulted anyone else yet.

It is going to be a hard sell to a NY jury that this was self defense. They are more likely to convict because they are libs. And a 20 year sentence serve as a balm to the conscious of any jurors who might feel a little guilty convicting here.

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So are you saying that the reasoning is not idiotic and stupid?

Because you are wrong.

Neely had a pulse afterwards, he wasn't dead. And it wasn't "self defense" it was the defense of others. And such defense doesn't require the assault to happen "yet". It requires the mere fear of immediate harm. That's why it's self defense to shoot somebody merely because they point a gun at you. You don't have to take a bullet to the chest first.

aTmAg said:

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So are you saying that the reasoning is not idiotic and stupid?

Because you are wrong.

Neely had a pulse afterwards, he wasn't dead. And it wasn't "self defense" it was the defense of others. And such defense doesn't require the assault to happen "yet". It requires the mere fear of immediate harm. That's why it's self defense to shoot somebody merely because they point a gun at you. You don't have to take a bullet to the chest first.

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and your logic is stupid.

you cannot just shoot someone because they are standing there and yelling at you, there has to be an immediate an actual threat to your body.

and Penny self-determined that he was going to step up and subdue Neely when he was not under any threat from him.

C@LAg said:

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aTmAg said:

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So are you saying that the reasoning is not idiotic and stupid?

Because you are wrong.

Neely had a pulse afterwards, he wasn't dead. And it wasn't "self defense" it was the defense of others. And such defense doesn't require the assault to happen "yet". It requires the mere fear of immediate harm. That's why it's self defense to shoot somebody merely because they point a gun at you. You don't have to take a bullet to the chest first.

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and your logic is stupid.

you cannot just shoot someone because they are standing there and yelling at you, there has to be an immediate an actual threat to your body.

and Penny self-determined that he was going to step up and subdue Neely when he was not under any threat from him.

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Sorry dude, you are making a fool of yourself. There is a reason the entire train is on Penny's side and not the side of you and your BLM compatriots. It's the same reason that the police initially released him after questioning without charges.

Penny does not have to be under threat himself. He can act to protect others, and thankfully he did.

We need more guys like Penny and fewer like Alvin Bragg and his defenders.

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other than throwing stuff around and screaming

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amazing that this is tolerated

C@LAg said:

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aTmAg said:

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So are you saying that the reasoning is not idiotic and stupid?

Because you are wrong.

Neely had a pulse afterwards, he wasn't dead. And it wasn't "self defense" it was the defense of others. And such defense doesn't require the assault to happen "yet". It requires the mere fear of immediate harm. That's why it's self defense to shoot somebody merely because they point a gun at you. You don't have to take a bullet to the chest first.

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and your logic is stupid.

you cannot just shoot someone because they are standing there and yelling at you, there has to be an immediate an actual threat to your body.

and Penny self-determined that he was going to step up and subdue Neely when he was not under any threat from him.

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"One said they "have encountered many things, but nothing that put fear into me like that," while another said Neely was making "half-lunge movements" and coming within a "half a foot of people."

Neely had a documented history of mental health issues and arrests, including alleged instances of disorderly conduct, fare evasion and assault, according to police sources."

Yesterday said:

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C@LAg said:

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aTmAg said:

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So are you saying that the reasoning is not idiotic and stupid?

Because you are wrong.

Neely had a pulse afterwards, he wasn't dead. And it wasn't "self defense" it was the defense of others. And such defense doesn't require the assault to happen "yet". It requires the mere fear of immediate harm. That's why it's self defense to shoot somebody merely because they point a gun at you. You don't have to take a bullet to the chest first.

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and your logic is stupid.

you cannot just shoot someone because they are standing there and yelling at you, there has to be an immediate an actual threat to your body.

and Penny self-determined that he was going to step up and subdue Neely when he was not under any threat from him.

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"One said they "have encountered many things, but nothing that put fear into me like that," while another said Neely was making "half-lunge movements" and coming within a "half a foot of people."

Neely had a documented history of mental health issues and arrests, including alleged instances of disorderly conduct, fare evasion and assault, according to police sources."

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In 2021, he punched a 67 year old lady in the face breaking her nose and orbital bone.

If only somebody like Penny (who was not stupid enough to think he needs to wait until Neely actually punched this lady in the face first) was there to choke hold Neely before he did that.

Neely was clearly having a psychotic breakdown, but he didn't show a weapon and he didn't touch anyone yet (if I understand correctly).

Yes he had a violent history - but Penny didn't know any of that so I can't see it helping him that much.

I don't see how he's going to avoid at least manslaughter or negligent homicide. His best bet is the judge going very easy on him since I don't believe there was any pattern established. He could get as few as 4 years, and serve as little as 2.

But I don't see him getting found not guilty.

He deserves not only to be found not guilty, but to be given the key to the city. And weekly appointments to punch Alvin Bragg in the face.

Anything less than this would be an injustice.

Scary world we live in when the violent crazies are held less accountable than normal folks tired of their crazy *****

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The jurors and four alternates, who Justice Maxwell T. Wiley ruled would be kept anonymous, include a cross section of residents from across the borough, including Chelsea, Hell's Kitchen, Washington Heights and Harlem.

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Eight of the 12 seated jurors appeared to be white. On Wednesday, prosecutors in the Manhattan district attorney's office argued to Justice Wiley that Mr. Penny's lawyers were unconstitutionally weeding out people of color without legitimate reasons.

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Quote:

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Here is what we know about the 12 jurors from their statements in court:

Juror 1 lives near Lincoln Center and works in marketing communications. She said she takes the subway three or four times a week and has seen outbursts.

Juror 2, who lives in Washington Heights, is a health-care worker who gets most of his news from television and online. He said he takes the subway four times a week and has never seen a disturbance from a rider.

Juror 3 is a software engineer from the East Village. The juror said he occasionally rides the subway and has never felt threatened.

Juror 4 lives in Yorkville and is an insurance lawyer. She said that a woman with a cart has rammed into her in a subway car, causing her to back away. "I didn't fear for my life or anything like that," she said.

Juror 5 is an Upper East Side resident and retired systems engineer. A homeless man who "seemed to be suffering from mental illness" once approached him for no apparent reason while he stood on a subway platform and harassed him, he told the courtroom.

Juror 6 is a retired public librarian and lives in Morningside Heights. She said that he rides the subway several times a week and has seen outbursts, but never felt personally threatened.

Juror 7 works in creative production and lives on the Upper West Side. He said that he takes the subway daily, but has never seen an outburst or felt harassed.

Juror 8 is retired and lives in the East Village. She said that she rides the subway less in her retirement, but has never had any problems in the past.

Juror 9 lives on the Upper West Side and worked in a school development office. She said that she rides the subway four to five days a week and has witnessed outbursts, but has never felt personally threatened.

Juror 10 lives in the West Village and works in online retail marketing. During questioning, she said she had been harassed on an empty subway car while she was with a friend. "I think there are particular instances where force can be used," she said.

Juror 11 works as a corporate lawyer and lives in Murray Hill. He said he gets his news from podcasts, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal and NPR. He said he rides the subway often and has seen outbursts, but never felt threatened.

Juror 12 lives on the Upper East Side and works as a paralegal on a litigation team. She said she rides the subway five times a week and has seen outbursts

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NEW: Jordan Neely had a pulse after being put in a chokehold by Marine veteran Daniel Penny but NYPD declined mouth-to-mouth because they were afraid of getting hepatitis.

Neely was so dirty that officers didn't feel safe performing CPR.

Penny is charged with mansl*ughter and… pic.twitter.com/kNMCoaPaU7

— Collin Rugg (@CollinRugg) November 2, 2024

Penny should be exonerated immediately. This never should have gotten to trial.