Bayou City said:

---

Maybe of you don't speak Spanish. I speak Spanish and grew up speaking Spanish so I don't let it bother me.

Mexico right now is much safer than Colombia. I guess it's about how you blend in and how much you stick out.

---

I'm one of the few gringos reading this that has been to Culiacan Sinaloa (I feel relatively confident saying that usually regardless of company). During COVID when Mexico was open, many trips between Cancun, PV and Cabo. I've spent probably 8-10 nights at Distrito Cinco restaurant in PV (the same Distrito Cinco where the former governor of Jalisco was killed mere weeks after I was there). I usually opt to go outside the tourist area when I'm in any foreign town. I've been to Medellin multiple times and own property there (imho mexico is def more dangerous). I can legit say that I 'felt' more nervous/anxious/unsafe in NOLA or NYC.

However, to act like Mexico is not completely lawless or it is not a legitimate concern/opinion to not travel to Mexico is, imho, a bit missing the reality on the ground there. We can say 'its no more dangerous than the south-side of chicago' but that is one area in one state. the ENTIRE country of Mexico is generally like that. it could almost be exactly reversed - in America, there are places to not go at certain times; in Mexico, there are a few places that you CAN go to. And even those places are still run by the cartels. Look at what you even describe - no taxis, don't do this/dress this way, etc. etc. Even on the south-side of chicago, I'd feel comfortable approaching a cop for assistance. The same absolutely cannot be said for Mexico. There are no doubt some small towns that are 'safe.' And I will say it is very sad for the people of Mexico. But it is generally lawless. the cartels run that country. A country run by the cartels is not 'safe,' except and unless the cartels want it to be safe for that person.

Tren Maya is a work in progress but it should be nice to get across Yucatan from Tulum / PDC / Cancun to Chetumal or Valli to The West coast of the Yucatan. They just opened the section from PDC to Tulum. Not sure if the section from Tulum to Chetumal and then West is open but yeah it's safe. Some of the drop off are way outside of town though so you need transport from estacin to the pueblo.

I've never felt unsafe on the ADO.

We drove to Chiapas 2 weeks ago for a concert. Didn't feel unsafe at all. Again depends on how large of a target you put on your back. Same goes for the US. We will be in Oaxaca next weekend for a wedding.

Now would I ever drive a US plated car around Chiapas : **** no. Never.

I guess in saying don't believe every thing you hear. There are amazing people in Chiapas and Oaxaca. It isn't all crime and migrants.

Bayou City said:

---

We were in Chiapas 2 weeks ago for a concert. Didn't feel unsafe at all. Again depends on how large of a target you put on your back. Same goes for the US.

Now would I ever drive a US plated car around Chiapas : **** no. Never.

---

I assume San Cristobal? One of the few cities we want to visit but haven't been. We're semi-planning going to the big festival in Oaxaca next July and then fly to San Cristobal for a couple nights.

I agree with you on the ADO - I've been on several and always a good experience.

Bayou City said:

---

Didn't feel unsafe at all. Again depends on how large of a target you put on your back.

Now would I ever drive a US plated car around Chiapas : **** no. Never.

---

As long as you aren't white, drive a hooptie car, wear vagabond clothing, and don't look at the wrong person, 95% of the country is no less safe as the least safest place in America! Come on guys!

School shooting?

How about recent massacres of teachers by the state gov

• Nochixtln, Oaxaca, 2016
  8 killed 170 injured
  
  
• Oaxaca City, 2006
  4 killed 92 injured
  
  
• Tlatelolco, Mexico City, 1968
  Estimated 400 killed

And been a while since I read about it but there are several areas where huge numbers of bodies are dumped on a regular basis.

Nothing from the US side is comparable to the above.

Gilligan said:

---

Used to drive into Mexico in the mid 80s.

A lot of fun and never felt unsafe. Those days are long past.

---

You've always been a risk-taker, though.

"teachers" in Mexico has a different meaning than the US. Most Teacher colleges and universities are actually aligned w left wing Revolutionary groups who are also aligned w the cartels. They arent 2nd grade Teachers helping your kid read. They are commandering buses and setting up Road blocks to protest who knows what.

Where they get into trouble is when they comandeer a narco bus. Thats usually why they end up getting murdered. They steal a van packed w drugs and don't know it.

We were dining in Montreal at a restaurant this past spring and chatted up the chef since it was a bit of a slow night. She told us she and her husband owned property in Jalisco and they would drive down every year. I thought she was nuts.

Bayou City said:

---

Most of Mexixo is as safe as any major city in the US. We live here. With that said, the drive from the Border to anywhere in or through northern Mxico isn't a good idea if you don't look hispanic and speak Spanish. Also make sure you don't drive the wrong make or model of car oh yeah and NEVER outside the border states w US plates EVER. With that said, no idea why they stopped in Coatzacoalcos. Not trying to victim shame but thats just DUMB. It's one of the most dangerous cities in the whole country and one of the most xenophobic parts of Mxico. They don't even like people from different states of Mxico there. Not sure why they decided to stop there vs drive another 2.15 to Villahermosa in Tabasaco. Villahermosa is very safe while the prior is legit top 5-10 most unsafe. Coatz is essentially home rule w little to no support from the federal goverment outside of facade level cartel round ups as politically needed to keep locals happy. I think they didn't have any idea what they were doing. Stopping in Coatz w Texas plates in a 2016 Toyota with the car probably packed full of stuff = no mames.

When we moved here we considered making the drive from Houston to Quintana Roo because weve driven from GDX to QR several times and never felt unsafe. Literally the same round these folks were taking. It took our friends and familys .000001 seconds to veto that idea and then every person we spoke w inside the mexican consltate and banjercito reiterated not to try it. So instad we drive across to avoid alot of the crazy import fees on our stuff and then flew to QR and had a transport company ship our car and trailer. It was an extra $1500 but we didn't have to worry about this exact situacin.

---

In 2018 we flew to Mexico City and drove to Valle de Bravo... every person we spoke to in Mexico, including at the rental car counter, implored us not to travel at night, and not to stop for any reason along the route from Mexico City to Valle de Bravo. Even at our destination we had some concerning encounters over a handful of days... so much so that it caused us to cut the vacation there short and get back to Mexico City asap. Felt pretty safe in Mexico City. Would never go back to Valle de Bravo.

Post script: And this is sad because there is an *INCREDIBLE* Monarch butterfly sanctuary near there (in Piedra Herrada) where there are literally millions of Monarch butterflies that you ride through on horseback as you head up the mountain trail . They'd land on your hands, clothes, nose, hat... a once in a lifetime experience. Would love to return there, but never will do to safety concerns.

The guy that founded that got murdered. There's a great Netflix documentary on it and the deforestacin occuring in the area due to illegal logging to satisfy US consumer demand. It's really sad.

Bayou City said:

---

We drove to Chiapas 2 weeks ago for a concert. Didn't feel unsafe at all. Again depends on how large of a target you put on your back. Same goes for the US. We will be in Oaxaca next weekend for a wedding.

Now would I ever drive a US plated car around Chiapas : **** no. Never.

I guess in saying don't believe every thing you hear. There are amazing people in Chiapas and Oaxaca. It isn't all crime and migrants.

---

Spent a couple of days in Oaxaca with me and 20 of my gringo Aggie study abroad friends in the summer of 2002. Beautiful, but I recall stopping on the highway at one point in our charter bus because there was unrest/street protests up ahead. But being 20yo, I didn't know better.

Bayou City said:

---

The Company I Work for is rumored to be a cartel shell front to launder money but who knows. Not saying the name as it's a very popular Groupo where I'm guessibg several of you have stayed.

---

So not Vidanta? The guy that owns that is independently wealthy but you have to pay "insurance" wherever you do business. Also, are you that naive regarding crime in Mexico?

US State Department:
" Do Not Travel To:

Colima state due to crime and kidnapping.
Guerrero state due to crime.
Michoacan state due to crime.
Sinaloa state due to crime.
Tamaulipas state due to crime and kidnapping.
Zacatecas state due to crime and kidnapping."
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/mexico-travel-advisory.html

"Mexico faces a crisis of kidnappings, disappearances, and other criminal violence that has left over thirty-thousand people dead each year since 2018. Gangs and drug cartels largely perpetrate this violence, but the state has also committed human rights violations in its war against these groups. Civilians bear the most significant impact, which drives migrants to the U.S. border. Drugs from the cartels also flow over the border, fueling a drug overdose epidemic in the United States."
https://www.cfr.org/global-conflict-tracker/conflict/criminal-violence-mexico#:~:text=Mexico%20faces%20a%20crisis%20of,its%20war%20against%20these%20groups.

Back to this topic: experience down here says they we're targeted because of the US plates and the type of car. My guess is a local cartel affiliate had information about a rival gang using similar plated cars or a similar make of car and they we're assumed to be rival cartel members. Having a car packed full to the gills with stuff would only heighten the suspensin. If so that really sticks because those bodies are usually never found or if they are severly tortured since they assume they're rival affiliated. They may have also wanted the car for transport or refitting and that's why they got hit. I had a friend have his truck stolen outside Laredo. It was found w a 50 cal mount outside Jalisco 5 months later. Certain makes and models are a green light. The fact they haven't found them or the car makes me think the car's being used. Usually if they don't want the car they torch it off the side of a cliff w the bodies inside or the bodies burned at the top and the car roles off the side.

So yeah probs had to do w the plates and the make model of the car.

When I see someone with a Toyota here my first thought is "Wow they're rich". If they we're driving a changan or a VW vs a Toyota it probably wouldve helped. Toyota's here are few and far between. Def a way to make yourself a target.

Gilligan said:

---

July 22 was last contact. Sadly they're probably not still alive.

Used to drive into Mexico in the mid 80s.

A lot of fun and never felt unsafe. Those days are long past.

---

So REKs songs are even more fantasy now?

HollywoodBQ said:

---

Quote:

---

Frank Guzman, an University of Texas at Austin graduate student, and his wife Caroline Katba had planned to drive from Austin to Chile. Frank is working towards his Ph.D. in cultural anthropology and was headed to do fieldwork in Chile, his sister Liz Guzman said.

---

Got more than he bargained for / should have known better

---

This may be (definitely is) in poor taste, but it feels obligatory:

You are doing a great job of talking out of both sides of your mouth. It's pretty damn impressive.

Bayou City said:

---

That's not true. Mexican driving a US plated car was likely the problem. I wouldn't drive a US plate here either. Heck I don't like having a yucatan plate in QR but yeah I've seen maybe 1 US plate here and we all joked the car would be in the chop shop by the morning. Mexicans driving a us plated car arent considered mexicans. You need to read the whole article. My guess is they drove a US plate there and a rival gang thought it was an encroachment on their turf and killed them. The only people that have US plates outside the border zone are cartel cars that want an easier pass through the border that are getting refitted.

---

I've rented cars in Playa and drove all over to Cancun and Tulum never had issues .. we don't go outside the normal tourist areas, hundreds if not thousands of US expats living in those areas …. Don't drive across interior Mexico w US plates .. anyway he'll I've had a gun pointed at me driving in the wrong place in Houston .. won't ever drive in that area again either. Some of the best times we have had in Cozumel was renting a jeep and driving around the island with a Designated driver hitting all the beach clubs

Rental cars all have Public plates like taxis in QR. None should have US plates. You can only have US plates for 6 months Max in Mxico and the car must leave Mxico at that point or be registered with the transport authorities under a resident w legal authorization to operate. You pay a deposit at entry that shows when the car must exit the country. They are real *******s about that one. You can't legally register a car or moto under a FMM visa either. So if you bring a car over on an FMM you have to have a temp or oren residency visa to get a social to be able to register the vehicle in Mex. If you enter w a car under your FMM and don't leave with it, it's a big headache at departure and can result in getting Black Balled for future entry. Thats one thing we didn't expect. It's a PITA to get your car registered correctly and until you get them changed you're a huge target. We didn't drive ours between delivery when we took it to get new placas. We actually took the plates off it between delivery and registration.

I'll be in PDC / Cozumel this week. We're going to Nickolodean and Chankanaab Park.

one safe place said:

---

You are a really stupid idiot if you drive anywhere in Mexico. You are just a regular idiot if you fly into Mexico. Many say the tourist areas are safe, or kinda sorta maybe safe, but why take the chance? Plenty of other countries to travel to that aren't run by cartels.

---

Y I stopped going. Been there done that and forgot it.

Was even in Coatzacoalcos for a week right after hs graduation
Really industrial place. Not a resort destination

Bayou City said:

---

Cozumel has jungle in the interior. Not sure why d you feel unsafe there. Sinaloa cartel runs QR. Most of the violence is going to be runners and that's a majority of the time dead taxistas. Thats why you don't take cartel taxis.

We went through the QR times the other day and 90% of the murders were taxistas or people in a taxi.

Where things get harry is where one cartel doesn't control a majority of the territory or wants to move in. Jalisco New Generation isnt super active here.

They we're probably more annoyed at you trying to talk to them in general and even more so if it was in guerro Spanish. I hate it when tourists come up to me and start asking dumb questions in 3rd grade Spanish too. I'm not part of a cartel. I just pretend like I don't speak English and walk away.

---

Seriously?

Tabasco said:

---

Bayou City said:

---

Cozumel has jungle in the interior. Not sure why d you feel unsafe there. Sinaloa cartel runs QR. Most of the violence is going to be runners and that's a majority of the time dead taxistas. Thats why you don't take cartel taxis.

We went through the QR times the other day and 90% of the murders were taxistas or people in a taxi.

Where things get harry is where one cartel doesn't control a majority of the territory or wants to move in. Jalisco New Generation isnt super active here.

They we're probably more annoyed at you trying to talk to them in general and even more so if it was in guerro Spanish. I hate it when tourists come up to me and start asking dumb questions in 3rd grade Spanish too. I'm not part of a cartel. I just pretend like I don't speak English and walk away.

---

Seriously?

---

And that's why Mexico has problems... to think their population is the best to have passing over now is mind boggling

SouthTex99 said:

---

Bayou City said:

---

Laughing so hard at your american egos. I've been more scared in Denver surrounded by mentally I'll homeless than anywhere in Mexico. The american fake news Press has you guys wrapped around their finger.

---

I didn't say anything about being scared. I said it was lawless and ungoverned. If you are comfortable there that's good for you. It's a beautiful country and culture.

---

Love the smug attitude about american egos and more scared in Denver, and they followed by this:

Quote:

---

local cartel affiliate had information about a rival gang using similar plated cars or a similar make of car and they we're assumed to be rival cartel members. Having a car packed full to the gills with stuff would only heighten the suspensin. If so that really sticks because those bodies are usually never found or if they are severly tortured since they assume they're rival affiliated. They may have also wanted the car for transport or refitting and that's why they got hit. I had a friend have his truck stolen outside Laredo. It was found w a 50 cal mount outside Jalisco 5 months later. Certain makes and models are a green light. The fact they haven't found them or the car makes me think the car's being used. Usually if they don't want the car they torch it off the side of a cliff w the bodies inside or the bodies burned at the top and the car roles off the side.

---

Very sad but a very naive decision thinking they could just road trip it through the most dangerous country in the world.

Bayou City said:

---

They we're probably more annoyed at you trying to talk to them in general and even more so if it was in guerro Spanish.

---

Why?

Its self-conscious enough trying to learn a new language and speak publicly. Any attempt at trying to speak in that language is respecting a culture and language.

ABattJudd said:

---

HollywoodBQ said:

---

Quote:

---

Frank Guzman, an University of Texas at Austin graduate student, and his wife Caroline Katba had planned to drive from Austin to Chile. Frank is working towards his Ph.D. in cultural anthropology and was headed to do fieldwork in Chile, his sister Liz Guzman said.

---

Got more than he bargained for / should have known better

---

This may be (definitely is) in poor taste, but it feels obligatory:

---

That was pretty good.

I went to mexico city the weekend before last, it was great. Polanco during the day time >>>

Whenever TAD to NAS North Island or Miramar back in the 80's, I drove through Tijuana down to Ensenada; prolly five or six times total. Drove back a couple times, but usually stayed in Ensenada or stopped in Rosarito Beach. Even then, people lamented that "it's just not as safe as it was in the old days,".

With all due respect, and I don't mean this to be contentious or argumentative, no matter where you are in Mexico things are really safe, until they aren't. I grew up in Mexico, been to every state, have spent the better part of my life living, living and working, or working in Mex. Plus I am a citizen as well.

I have driven from TX to Guatemala and Belize several times and driven all over Mexico, plus worked all over Mex.

The issue in today's Mexico is that if you run into trouble and or are targeted the chances of surviving that encounter are slim as for the perpetrators there are little if any consequences and a dead witness tells no tales. Gone are the days of looking out for tourists and innocents. The levels of corruption in Mex, and I don't care if you are on the border or in downtown Merida, or Tapachula or TJ, are now astounding in that corruption, graft, and penetration by the crime syndicates affects almost every facet of daily life, whether one perceives it or not, that is the case.

I agree with you that prolly 95% of the time things are fine, but that other percentage is unforgiving as hell if it hits you. The good folks can't protect themselves and they sure can't protect anyone else. Many are compromised and coop-ted by the crime groups.

The crime groups are all over, just because they aren't out in the open raising hell doesn't mean they haven't penetrated all of government and most of society.

If you are working in Mex, you should know how complicated it is to invoice and obtain a deductible invoice, everything is basically live tied into Hacienda. Think about this, look at the astronomical fraud that takes place with the IVA returns and fraudulent invoices. All of that is orchestrated at the top levels of government/Hacienda. Now think about the justice system, police, the DA's (fiscales), etc. Mexico is lost, and I say that with a heavy heart.

Those kids from the teachers school in Guerrero that disappeared were kids. And 43 of them disappeared and no perpetrator nor relation of what truly happened has ever come to light, through 3 presidents. 43 kids......gone-poof. So if they can pop 43 kids, what concern would a connected criminal have for a gringo or two? Not much.

This thread (not the topic) was pretty funny to read as Bayou City dropped caveat after exception after explanation about how dangerous it was to do this or that, here or there, in Mexico, but how stupid people were to think Mexico was dangerous overall.

Back when I was a younger and dumber single guy, we drove a suburban with 5 of us from DF to Ixtapa, Acapulco, and back to DF. It was an adventure, but it was around 1999 before things had gotten really bad in the struggle between the state and the Narcos. Even then we got held up at gunpoint at a roadblock and had to bribe our way out with money, beer and cokes. No way I'd even consider it in the current Narco state of Mexico.

This ain't xenophobia either. I drove all over Costa Rica this summer and felt completely safe. Mexico is a failed state, or at least failing so bad that it is indistinguishable from failed.

Amazing that there are still idiot Americans making Youtube videos about retiring to Mexico or just living in Mexico with remote US jobs to save money.

Bayou City said:

---

Loving the nunber of "never would visit there" snowflakes.

---

My favorite part of this thread is you saying Mexico is safe but then proceed to bang out about 25 reasons and examples where it is not safe at all and then go so far as to say your own company is likely a front for the cartel.

Other than that, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln?

Yeah Bayou gets off to feeling superior to others on this site.
For expertise on Mexico though it's quite tricky.
On one hand he has to work to appear like it's not that bad, that he holds information the people that get their news from the US media don't have. We're all just ignorant. The classic "it's not any worse than any other big city!"
But on the other hand he needs to appear like his easy living down there is not so easy to achieve. It's through his perfect assimilation that he's able to avoid otherwise certain death.

RGV AG said:

---

With all due respect, and I don't mean this to be contentious or argumentative, no matter where you are in Mexico things are really safe, until they aren't. I grew up in Mexico, been to every state, have spent the better part of my life living, living and working, or working in Mex. Plus I am a citizen as well.

I have driven from TX to Guatemala and Belize several times and driven all over Mexico, plus worked all over Mex.

The issue in today's Mexico is that if you run into trouble and or are targeted the chances of surviving that encounter are slim as for the perpetrators there are little if any consequences and a dead witness tells no tales. Gone are the days of looking out for tourists and innocents. The levels of corruption in Mex, and I don't care if you are on the border or in downtown Merida, or Tapachula or TJ, are now astounding in that corruption, graft, and penetration by the crime syndicates affects almost every facet of daily life, whether one perceives it or not, that is the case.

I agree with you that prolly 95% of the time things are fine, but that other percentage is unforgiving as hell if it hits you. The good folks can't protect themselves and they sure can't protect anyone else. Many are compromised and coop-ted by the crime groups.

The crime groups are all over, just because they aren't out in the open raising hell doesn't mean they haven't penetrated all of government and most of society.

If you are working in Mex, you should know how complicated it is to invoice and obtain a deductible invoice, everything is basically live tied into Hacienda. Think about this, look at the astronomical fraud that takes place with the IVA returns and fraudulent invoices. All of that is orchestrated at the top levels of government/Hacienda. Now think about the justice system, police, the DA's (fiscales), etc. Mexico is lost, and I say that with a heavy heart.

Those kids from the teachers school in Guerrero that disappeared were kids. And 43 of them disappeared and no perpetrator nor relation of what truly happened has ever come to light, through 3 presidents. 43 kids......gone-poof. So if they can pop 43 kids, what concern would a connected criminal have for a gringo or two? Not much.

---

This. Used to have bus excursions from Ft. Hood to Laredo/Nuevo Laredo and you could walk across the border in El Paso and have lunch in Juarez in the 1970s. Safely. Matter of fact, there were a lot of cross-border exchanges with organizations then.