I constantly hear this criticism of Trump and it's the most absurd criticism out there. Is he a narcissist? Sure is. Is every candidate that runs for President a narcissist? Sure are. Kamala was asked in her interview why she was running and her answer was "because I'm the best person for the job". It takes at least some level of narcissism for anyone to believe they are the best person for the job of most powerful person in the world. Was Obama a narcissist? Yep. Bush? Yep. Clinton? Yep.

To be honest, if you don't have some narcissism you're not capable of doing the job. To walk into a room with leaders of the world and have the upper hand in any negotiation they need to have belief that they are a damn big deal. If that criticism is your basis for hating a candidate as SO many I've encountered use as their basis to hate Trump you're just looking for a reason to hate a candidate. In fairness I've heard Trump supporters say that about Kamala as well and it's equally as stupid reasoning.

Heard it 6 times just today causing the rant....rant over.

Show me a politician that isn't a narcissist.

Who gives a s*** about their personality?

If you're not voting on policy, do the country a favor and don't vote.

Slicer97 said:

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Show me a politician that isn't a narcissist.

Who gives a s*** about their personality?

If you're not voting on policy, do the country a favor and don't vote.

---

Yep, seems so logical and simple...but I'd estimate about 40% of the country votes on personality and feelings.

Sure, the way the current political landscape works, it is a huge narcissism magnet. That doesn't mean it doesn't matter. If they can use that narcissism to get things done that need to be done, great. If that narcissism tells them that ****ty strategies and principles (which drive policy) will work this time because they are the ones doing it, then it is a problem. Unfortunately we have seen too much of the latter from him, and that is why it is a problem with his extraordinary amount of narcissism. It's not just a problem with him, Obama had it, too.

It's not like you have to live with the president. You do, however, have to live with their policies.

Phatbob said:

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Unfortunately we have seen too much of the latter from him, and that is why it is a problem with his extraordinary amount of narcissism

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That's true. Judy Woodruff told me so

Based on the headline, I thought this was going to be about Obama.

TexAgs91 said:

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Phatbob said:

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Unfortunately we have seen too much of the latter from him, and that is why it is a problem with his extraordinary amount of narcissism

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That's true. Judy Woodruff told me so

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I don't watch PBS, but you do you, I guess...

If people only voted for the person with the best policies and didn't vote their feelz, Trump, Obama,
and Clinton, etc. etc. would never have stepped foot in the White House.

In each of those names there were more knowledgeable and capable candidates, but enough people got the feelz and carried them to a place they likely wouldn't have gotten to otherwise.

Start around 11:00 and listen to the next 10 minutes. This is an actual psychologist giving you a breakdown of Harris and Trump and clearly defines which is the sociopath based on clinical guidelines.

For the TLDW, while Trump has narcissistic tendencies as do all entertainers, he has a high level of compassion and high work ethic that keeps him from sliding into a pathological state. His articulated explanation of how Democratic leadership fits "cluster B" pathology is spot on and explains a lot about the current political climate.

This ties in with a post i made on another thread: people who are insecure don't want to join up with narcissists.

They are far more likely to join up with candidates who appear weak and non-threatening. Biden appeared weak and non-threatening. He can't hurt you he is older than your grandpa. Biden could run as the weak and non-threatening grandpa because the past 4 years proved he can hurt you.

The quick switch-a-roo to words salad kamala shouldn't be a surprise. She isn't that big of a threat she is dumb. She can't be that mean look at how hard it is for her to explain time. What could she even accomplish if she was bad.

No Spin Ag
Thanks for the link. Very interesting interview, only have listened to ~ 30 minutes.
I will say I am impressed by Jordan Peterson's answer to the question, (paraphrasing from ~ 26:30 minute mark) What are 3 things President Trump could do to get a victory?

His answer ,"I don't know?" shows he is being honest and forthright and not a know it all. Kudos to him.

Slicer97 said:

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Show me a politician that isn't a narcissist.

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There are none. They are all are. Some are just better at it than others. For example. 0 was a HUGE narcissist.

Quote:

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Who gives a s*** about their personality?

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The majority of voters, that's who. Like it or not, it's important. Why do you think Hillary lost? Hint, it's not because Trump was a better candidate.

It matters because Trump's level of narcissism makes him incapable of appointing competent individuals instead of the biggest ass kissers where necessary. It also makes him incredibly hard for anyone else, like Congress, to work with.

Sure, all of his sycophants lap up his soundbytes, but they often give at the expense of getting anything meaningful done. Seriously, what lasting impact did he have from his presidency? Just about everything he did was immediately undone by Biden because little of it was legislative. Maybe the tax cut and jobs act? The biggest part of his presidential legacy was reshaping federal courts through judicial appointments, but that was Cocaine Mitch's baby and started before Trump even ran.

ABATTBQ11 said:

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It matters because Trump's level of narcissism makes him incapable of appointing competent individuals instead of the biggest ass kissers where necessary. It also makes him incredibly hard for anyone else, like Congress, to work with.

Sure, all of his sycophants lap up his soundbytes, but they often give at the expense of getting anything meaningful done. Seriously, what lasting impact did he have from his presidency? Just about everything he did was immediately undone by Biden because little of it was legislative. Maybe the tax cut and jobs act? The biggest part of his presidential legacy was reshaping federal courts through judicial appointments, but that was Cocaine Mitch's baby and started before Trump even ran.

---

Gee its almost as if the president doesn't control the legislation. So perhaps it isn't his fault the other branch doesn't do their job. Just spitballing here. This is like blaming the QB for the defense giving up 4 TDs.

ABATTBQ11 said:

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It matters because Trump's level of narcissism makes him incapable of appointing competent individuals instead of the biggest ass kissers where necessary. It also makes him incredibly hard for anyone else, like Congress, to work with.

Sure, all of his sycophants lap up his soundbytes, but they often give at the expense of getting anything meaningful done. Seriously, what lasting impact did he have from his presidency? Just about everything he did was immediately undone by Biden because little of it was legislative. Maybe the tax cut and jobs act? The biggest part of his presidential legacy was reshaping federal courts through judicial appointments, but that was Cocaine Mitch's baby and started before Trump even ran.

---

next level TDS

texagbeliever said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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It matters because Trump's level of narcissism makes him incapable of appointing competent individuals instead of the biggest ass kissers where necessary. It also makes him incredibly hard for anyone else, like Congress, to work with.

Sure, all of his sycophants lap up his soundbytes, but they often give at the expense of getting anything meaningful done. Seriously, what lasting impact did he have from his presidency? Just about everything he did was immediately undone by Biden because little of it was legislative. Maybe the tax cut and jobs act? The biggest part of his presidential legacy was reshaping federal courts through judicial appointments, but that was Cocaine Mitch's baby and started before Trump even ran.

---

Gee its almost as if the president doesn't control the legislation. So perhaps it isn't his fault the other branch doesn't do their job. Just spitballing here. This is like blaming the QB for the defense giving up 4 TDs.

---

More like blaming the coach

dmart90 said:

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Slicer97 said:

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Show me a politician that isn't a narcissist.

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There are none. They are all are. Some are just better at it than others.

Quote:

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Who gives a s*** about their personality?

---

---

And this is how you raise the bar on Bull $hi. Everyone agrees that a lower level of behavior is the new "normal" of acceptance and tolerance.

We create monsters this way.

ABATTBQ11 said:

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It matters because Trump's level of narcissism makes him incapable of appointing competent individuals instead of the biggest ass kissers where necessary. It also makes him incredibly hard for anyone else, like Congress, to work with.

Sure, all of his sycophants lap up his soundbytes, but they often give at the expense of getting anything meaningful done. Seriously, what lasting impact did he have from his presidency? Just about everything he did was immediately undone by Biden because little of it was legislative. Maybe the tax cut and jobs act? The biggest part of his presidential legacy was reshaping federal courts through judicial appointments, but that was Cocaine Mitch's baby and started before Trump even ran.

---

This is not entirely true. His people are hit and miss.

My law school 1L study partner was Trump's deputy director for domestic policy and she is one of the smartest and most conservative people that I know.

BigFred said:

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dmart90 said:

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Slicer97 said:

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Show me a politician that isn't a narcissist.

---

There are none. They are all are. Some are just better at it than others.

Quote:

---

Who gives a s*** about their personality?

---

---

And this is how you raise the bar on Bull $hi. Everyone agrees that a lower level of behavior is the new "normal" of acceptance and tolerance.

We create monsters this way.

---

Are talking about Bill Clinton here?

Slicer97 said:

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Show me a politician that isn't a narcissist.

Who gives a s*** about their personality?

If you're not voting on policy, do the country a favor and don't vote.

---

I may be stepping out of my lane here, but I don't consider Trump a narcissist. He's more of an egotist. They can look the same from the outside, but in my definition, narcissism is rooted in a deep-down fear of inadequacy and having that inadequacy revealed to all.

This is manifested in a strong desire to seek approval, to convince everyone that you are in fact the greatest thing ever though in reality they are very fearful of having their weakness exposed. Most leftists are like this. It's part of the reason they will never accept that their policies are a failure, because that will mean admitting that they are a failure. There is no growth with a narcissist until they can accept the virtue of humility.

The egotist like Trump really does think they are the GOAT. There is no inner turmoil about hidden weakness. They like the spotlight, and they want everyone to know they are the GOAT. But an egoist can have humility too for the appropriate situation. Trump's penchant for truly honoring the dead, especially those that have sacrificed their lives, is an example. I believe he is genuine in this.

But just like narcissists, egotists can be off-putting with their need for attention.

texagbeliever said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

---

It matters because Trump's level of narcissism makes him incapable of appointing competent individuals instead of the biggest ass kissers where necessary. It also makes him incredibly hard for anyone else, like Congress, to work with.

Sure, all of his sycophants lap up his soundbytes, but they often give at the expense of getting anything meaningful done. Seriously, what lasting impact did he have from his presidency? Just about everything he did was immediately undone by Biden because little of it was legislative. Maybe the tax cut and jobs act? The biggest part of his presidential legacy was reshaping federal courts through judicial appointments, but that was Cocaine Mitch's baby and started before Trump even ran.

---

Gee its almost as if the president doesn't control the legislation. So perhaps it isn't his fault the other branch doesn't do their job. Just spitballing here. This is like blaming the QB for the defense giving up 4 TDs.

---

Yeah, it's almost like you have to be a team player to influence a legislative body like Congress and get their cooperation...

ABATTBQ11 said:

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texagbeliever said:

---

ABATTBQ11 said:

---

It matters because Trump's level of narcissism makes him incapable of appointing competent individuals instead of the biggest ass kissers where necessary. It also makes him incredibly hard for anyone else, like Congress, to work with.

Sure, all of his sycophants lap up his soundbytes, but they often give at the expense of getting anything meaningful done. Seriously, what lasting impact did he have from his presidency? Just about everything he did was immediately undone by Biden because little of it was legislative. Maybe the tax cut and jobs act? The biggest part of his presidential legacy was reshaping federal courts through judicial appointments, but that was Cocaine Mitch's baby and started before Trump even ran.

---

Gee its almost as if the president doesn't control the legislation. So perhaps it isn't his fault the other branch doesn't do their job. Just spitballing here. This is like blaming the QB for the defense giving up 4 TDs.

---

Yeah, it's almost like you have to be a team player to influence a legislative body like Congress and get their cooperation...

---

John McCain. That guy wasn't on our team. All the Jan 6th republicans weren't on our "team". You can't get a team to work if half of them are crooks working for the other side.

How come all the other representatives get some giant pass on failing to put forth great policy for Trump to sign? It makes no logical sense. It wasn't like Trump turned down any legislation. He just never got any good ones.

BigFred said:

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dmart90 said:

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Slicer97 said:

---

Show me a politician that isn't a narcissist.

---

There are none. They are all are. Some are just better at it than others.

Quote:

---

Who gives a s*** about their personality?

---

---

And this is how you raise the bar on Bull $hi. Everyone agrees that a lower level of behavior is the new "normal" of acceptance and tolerance.

We create monsters this way.

---

WTH does this even mean?

American Hardwood said:

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Slicer97 said:

---

Show me a politician that isn't a narcissist.

Who gives a s*** about their personality?

If you're not voting on policy, do the country a favor and don't vote.

---

I may be stepping out of my lane here, but I don't consider Trump a narcissist. He's more of an egotist. They can look the same from the outside, but in my definition, narcissism is rooted in a deep-down fear of inadequacy and having that inadequacy revealed to all.

This is manifested in a strong desire to seek approval, to convince everyone that you are in fact the greatest thing ever though in reality they are very fearful of having their weakness exposed. Most leftists are like this. It's part of the reason they will never accept that their policies are a failure, because that will mean admitting that they are a failure. There is no growth with a narcissist until they can accept the virtue of humility.

The egoist like Trump really does think they are the GOAT. There is no inner turmoil about hidden weakness. They like the spotlight, and they want everyone to know they are the GOAT. But an egoist can have humility too for the appropriate situation. Trump's penchant for truly honoring the dead, especially those that have sacrificed their lives, is an example. I believe he is genuine in this.

But just like narcissists, egoists can be off-putting we their need for attention.

---

I really like the distinction you laid out.

I never really thought much about the distinction until I had to deal very closely with a weapons grade narcissist in my family. Then I realized how much the psychological difference is between the two and dealing with an egotist and a narcissist are very, very different. With a narcissist nothing is EVER their fault and the more insistent you are that it is the more irrational, spiteful, and even violent they will become to protect their fragile ego.

American Hardwood said:

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I never really thought much about the distinction until I had to deal very closely with a weapons grade narcissist in my family. Then I realized how much the psychological difference is between the two and dealing with an egotist and a narcissist are very, very different. With a narcissist nothing is EVER their fault and the more insistent you are that it is the more irrational, spiteful, and even violent they will become to protect their fragile ego.

---

Life is a great teacher. I bet it wasn't enjoyable to experience but you learned and can share that knowledge now.

No Spin Ag said:

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If people only voted for the person with the best policies and didn't vote their feelz, Trump, Obama,
and Clinton, etc. etc. would never have stepped foot in the White House.

In each of those names there were more knowledgeable and capable candidates, but enough people got the feelz and carried them to a place they likely wouldn't have gotten to otherwise.

---

Wait, you think Hillary had the best policies in 2016? lmao

Gyles Marrett said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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If people only voted for the person with the best policies and didn't vote their feelz, Trump, Obama,
and Clinton, etc. etc. would never have stepped foot in the White House.

In each of those names there were more knowledgeable and capable candidates, but enough people got the feelz and carried them to a place they likely wouldn't have gotten to otherwise.

---

Wait, you think Hillary had the best policies in 2016? lmao

---

I try very hard to forget she's even alive.

ETA: I meant Bill, not the one who failed (thankfully).

Binary thinking

texagbeliever said:

---

American Hardwood said:

---

Slicer97 said:

---

Show me a politician that isn't a narcissist.

Who gives a s*** about their personality?

If you're not voting on policy, do the country a favor and don't vote.

---

I may be stepping out of my lane here, but I don't consider Trump a narcissist. He's more of an egotist. They can look the same from the outside, but in my definition, narcissism is rooted in a deep-down fear of inadequacy and having that inadequacy revealed to all.

This is manifested in a strong desire to seek approval, to convince everyone that you are in fact the greatest thing ever though in reality they are very fearful of having their weakness exposed. Most leftists are like this. It's part of the reason they will never accept that their policies are a failure, because that will mean admitting that they are a failure. There is no growth with a narcissist until they can accept the virtue of humility.

The egoist like Trump really does think they are the GOAT. There is no inner turmoil about hidden weakness. They like the spotlight, and they want everyone to know they are the GOAT. But an egoist can have humility too for the appropriate situation. Trump's penchant for truly honoring the dead, especially those that have sacrificed their lives, is an example. I believe he is genuine in this.

But just like narcissists, egoists can be off-putting we their need for attention.

---

I really like the distinction you laid out.

---

Agree, and admitting to a failure whether it be a policy or whatever in the political world I'm 100% certain many including Trump don't admit to a failure not due the narcissism or egotism, it's simply they know admitting to a failure is a terrible strategy politically. You can't convince me that Trump doesn't fully believe giving the pharmaceutical companies immunity to produce an experimental vaccine that turned out to be terrible was a failure. But saying that is just political suicide as you make a sound bite for the other side to just run over and over. Same as if Biden/Kamala admitted the Afghanistan withdrawal was a failure. They know it was. I don't blame either side for that. The educated on world events already know the answer to all of the above.

Phatbob said:

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Binary thinking

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You probably think gender isn't binary too....

Gyles Marrett said:

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You can't convince me that Trump doesn't fully believe giving the pharmaceutical companies immunity to produce an experimental vaccine that turned out to be terrible was a failure.

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So if you have never heard from him that he would do anything differently, and in fact he has said he wouldn't do anything differently, what brings you to this conclusion? There aren't a lot of 80 year olds that change how they go about business.

Gyles Marrett said:

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Phatbob said:

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Binary thinking

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You probably think gender isn't binary too....

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So if I think more than 2 things are possible I have to be liberal? I think you've proved my point.

In my experience, the folks who whine about Trump being a narcissist are the same ones that love his worshipfulness Obama, which strikes me as somehow the funniest thing in politics. I haven't yet met an actual human who loves Tim Walz but I bet it's the same subset of communists.