Dems photoshopped crowd meeting plane

18,235 Views | 144 Replies | Last: 3 mo ago by TRADUCTOR
Guitarsoup
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Quote:







Not criticizing, asking a question to become more educated:

Could the telephoto create a little over-emphasis? Like holding out a fish away from you during a picture to make it look a tad bigger?

I really liked your clip from Jaws showing the compression effect. But careful clipping and compression might make it seem like there are more people in a spread out space than there really are. People seem more crowded together. So, while the photo is most likely not doctored, and the crowd probably really was around 15k, the compression effect COULD make it look more "crowded" than it really was, because people are more spread out than they appear, right?

Trump's tweet here is definitely stupid. I'm not arguing that.




Good question.

A telephoto would generally show fewer people, because it has a smaller angle of view. That would work in your favor to look like a bigger crowd, only if the entire crowd fits into that defined angle of view.

A 300mm lens (what I think was used) has about an 8 degree field of view, while a 50mm lens (considered a normal lens; closest to our natural vision) has about a 45 degree angle of view.

So if you squeezed everyone into that 8 degree field of view, it would look like there is more than there were, because you don't expect the entire crowd to be in that and you expect there to be other people.

But that isn't really what is happening in that photo:


.
It is showing like a hundred people, out of a crowd that had considerably more.

Wide shot:



So in showing a big crowd, the telephoto version from the original did a disservice to the crowd size, as compared to the wide angle from inside the hangar.

All the telelphoto lens really did was make it look like the crowd was closer to AF2 than it really was. But that isn't really manipulating in any real meaningful way.

For our hunters, think of it as looking through your range finder or scope. You have a much smaller field of view, but things look closer to you. 50mm is about your normal vision, 100mm is 2x, 200mm is 4x and 300 would be 4.5x. Another way to think of it is that for every 100mm in lens focal length, you get about 10yards of magnification. So that 300mm lens would be like being 30 yards closer. My main field sports lens is a 400mm.


For portraits, the wrong focal length can distort the face a great deal, for the same reasons at play above. I prefer being between 85mm and 200mm. A wider lens won't compress the face enough and make the nose look much more prominent than it actually is.



Wide angle on the left, telephoto on the right.



So more than you were asking, but thats how these things work.
CanyonAg77
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I think what people don't understand is the foreshortening (I think that's the term)

When you take a photo with a telephoto lens, far things and near things look close to each other. But almost everyone has seen this with binoculars, if they think about it.

Maybe a crude example will help. In real life, if seen from 90 degrees to the photo, the spacing was like this:

CAMERA..CROWD.....................................................PLANE

Through a telephoto lens it appears to be


CAMERACROWD...PLANE
BusterAg
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Thanks Soup, helpful.

What is crazy is that the glasses on the left photo seem so much larger compared to the guys face than the right photo. But, I guess this would make sense if the wide angle photo was taken 2 inches away from the guys face, compared to 40 yards in the right.
trailrunner
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Don't believe anything you hear and half of what you see.
BusterAg
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Looks helpful.

I found this article thanks to this thread that made things make sense to me:

https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/20210126/p2a/00m/0op/009000c

Notice how closely the trees seem to be spaced apart on the top photo of the same road as the second.

Funny how we have a hard time understanding photos because we are used to only one focal length (the distance between our corneas and our retinas). Why should that distance be the "correct" focal length? Don't we know that other animals likely perceive the world differently than this? Even more interesting, the focal length of people's eyes vary slightly from person to person. How we perceive the beauty of a person's face might be just a tad different due to the size and shape of our eyes comparatively.

I guess I'll go to bed before I turn this into a perception versus perceived reality thread that gets kicked up to 15.

Fun thread! Thanks Soup!
pacecar02
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Guitarsoup said:


Quote:







Not criticizing, asking a question to become more educated:

Could the telephoto create a little over-emphasis? Like holding out a fish away from you during a picture to make it look a tad bigger?

I really liked your clip from Jaws showing the compression effect. But careful clipping and compression might make it seem like there are more people in a spread out space than there really are. People seem more crowded together. So, while the photo is most likely not doctored, and the crowd probably really was around 15k, the compression effect COULD make it look more "crowded" than it really was, because people are more spread out than they appear, right?

Trump's tweet here is definitely stupid. I'm not arguing that.




Good question.

A telephoto would generally show fewer people, because it has a smaller angle of view. That would work in your favor to look like a bigger crowd, only if the entire crowd fits into that defined angle of view.

A 300mm lens (what I think was used) has about an 8 degree field of view, while a 50mm lens (considered a normal lens; closest to our natural vision) has about a 45 degree angle of view.

So if you squeezed everyone into that 8 degree field of view, it would look like there is more than there were, because you don't expect the entire crowd to be in that and you expect there to be other people.

But that isn't really what is happening in that photo:


.
It is showing like a hundred people, out of a crowd that had considerably more.

Wide shot:



So in showing a big crowd, the telephoto version from the original did a disservice to the crowd size, as compared to the wide angle from inside the hangar.

All the telelphoto lens really did was make it look like the crowd was closer to AF2 than it really was. But that isn't really manipulating in any real meaningful way.

For our hunters, think of it as looking through your range finder or scope. You have a much smaller field of view, but things look closer to you. 50mm is about your normal vision, 100mm is 2x, 200mm is 4x and 300 would be 4.5x. Another way to think of it is that for every 100mm in lens focal length, you get about 10yards of magnification. So that 300mm lens would be like being 30 yards closer. My main field sports lens is a 400mm.


For portraits, the wrong focal length can distort the face a great deal, for the same reasons at play above. I prefer being between 85mm and 200mm. A wider lens won't compress the face enough and make the nose look much more prominent than it actually is.



Wide angle on the left, telephoto on the right.



So more than you were asking, but thats how these things work.
just to add

not political or conspiracy

stuffing the hangar with everyone and having the plane off in the distance lends itself to visual tricks

packing the hangar in general allows you to take pics that may make the crows seem larger than it was

having everyone in the hangar might account for the lack of crowd reflection on the plane


but no doubt there will be photography tricks to paint their narrative, after all, photo journalism is still journalism
whoop1995
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Okay so a little math behind this for crowd size

The size of the hanger is 35,000 square feet. It had risers and stages and crowd separators, etc on the floor taking up space.
https://detroitmi.gov/departments/airport-coleman-young-international/lease-information


According to the Harris campaign 15k people were at the Detroit hanger rally. Lot of people in a little space makes it look full as well.

From the article below:
The Detroit rally on Wednesday night drew 15,000 supporters in another crucial swing state, the Harris campaign told reporters. Walz called it "the largest rally of the campaign" so far.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/aug/07/harris-walz-wisconsin-rally#:~:text=The%20Detroit%20rally%20on%20Wednesday,of%20the%20campaign%E2%80%9D%20so%20far.

Another article saying 15k people
https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/11/politics/trump-harris-crowd-size-conspiracy-theory/index.html
I collect ticket stubs! looking for a 1944 orange bowl and 1981 independence bowl ticket stub as well as Aggie vs tu stubs - 1926 and below, 1935-1937, 1939-1944, 1946-1948, 1950-1951, 1953, 1956-1957, 1959, 1960, 1963-1966, 1969-1970, 1972-1974, 1980, 1984, 1990, 2004, 2008, 2010
WestTexasAg
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Top story on CNN website:

https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/11/politics/trump-harris-crowd-size-conspiracy-theory/index.html
WestTexasAg
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Trump would be wise to STFU on crowd sizes and what race Kamala is and focus on the important issues.......but he won't.
DallasAg03
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whoop1995 said:

Okay so a little math behind this for crowd size

The size of the hanger is 35,000 square feet. It had risers and stages and crowd separators, etc on the floor taking up space.
https://detroitmi.gov/departments/airport-coleman-young-international/lease-information


According to the Harris campaign 15k people were at the Detroit hanger rally. Lot of people in a little space makes it look full as well.

From the article below:
The Detroit rally on Wednesday night drew 15,000 supporters in another crucial swing state, the Harris campaign told reporters. Walz called it "the largest rally of the campaign" so far.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/aug/07/harris-walz-wisconsin-rally#:~:text=The%20Detroit%20rally%20on%20Wednesday,of%20the%20campaign%E2%80%9D%20so%20far.

Another article saying 15k people
https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/11/politics/trump-harris-crowd-size-conspiracy-theory/index.html



15k is a lot of people
Aggie Apotheosis
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TexasAggiesWin said:



Republicans are fighting a non-stop battle against the media and Democrats who change their views based upon the wind

Well, it doesn't help when a man who is obsessed beyond measure with crowd sizes shrieks that a rally that was live tweeted and was attended by thousands of people, all with cell phone cameras, and a ton of news agencies who documented it all over the internet claims that there were no people there and that the photos and videos documenting it were faked with AI. It has a tendency to make rational people question his grip on reality.

The U.S. faces real issues and he's spending day after day bleating this nonsense that a) isn't true and b) nobody cares about. He's not campaigning. He doesn't have many, if any, field offices set up. He should be rallying in every swing state over and over again. He spent today golfing and rambling on Truth social.

Even if you hate Kamala's policies, at least she can form complete sentences. His brain is cooked.
Don Powell
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Face it, if your dad was acting like Trump you would probably be putting him in a home.
bobbranco
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Don Powell said:

Face it, if your dad was acting like Trump you would probably be putting him in a home.

Yep. Or worse.

More democratting. Cancel the orange man or better yet jail the orange man. LOL.
Silent For Too Long
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Don Powell said:

Face it, if your dad was acting like Trump you would probably be putting him in a home.


The people who gave us Joe Biden have the audacity to say **** like this, now.
Pumpkinhead
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WestTexasAg said:

Trump would be wise to STFU on crowd sizes and what race Kamala is and focus on the important issues.......but he won't.


Yep. The more Trump comes across like an F16 poster talking conspiracy theories about crowd size photos, 2020 stolen election conspiracies, fighting identity politics - an old rich white billionaire man getting into 'Is she really black?' Debates versus a younger black woman…Trump is going to get crushed if that is coming direct out of his mouth because advantage younger black woman…

That is how Trump loses. Going full TexAgs Politics Message Board mode is not going to win over moderates, independents, swing votes.

Just focus on the economy, the border, and geo-political issues like Russia/Ukraine, China, and the Middle East. Talk up the 'unify' message and how you want to lower the polarization temperature in the room. Be the adult in the room.

That's it. But he probably isn't going to do that because he's Trump and like Jimbo - while he won a political 'natty' in 2016 versus a very unpopular Hillary he then needed to adapt his playbook - but nope - it is the same ole Jimbo offenses year after year and while still able to win ball games in GOP primary scrimmages, at a national election level the same ole Trump playbook is not nearly as effective against opponents not named Hillary - and the Dem side is going to bait him again and again to play their game.

Trump WAS going to still beat Biden regardless because Biden age and mental faculty issues got so bad it was sinking the Dem campaign…but the Dems didn't mess around…they fired their head coach mid-season and now they got a rejuvenated football team.

Guitarsoup
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pacecar02 said:

Guitarsoup said:


Quote:







Not criticizing, asking a question to become more educated:

Could the telephoto create a little over-emphasis? Like holding out a fish away from you during a picture to make it look a tad bigger?

I really liked your clip from Jaws showing the compression effect. But careful clipping and compression might make it seem like there are more people in a spread out space than there really are. People seem more crowded together. So, while the photo is most likely not doctored, and the crowd probably really was around 15k, the compression effect COULD make it look more "crowded" than it really was, because people are more spread out than they appear, right?

Trump's tweet here is definitely stupid. I'm not arguing that.




Good question.

A telephoto would generally show fewer people, because it has a smaller angle of view. That would work in your favor to look like a bigger crowd, only if the entire crowd fits into that defined angle of view.

A 300mm lens (what I think was used) has about an 8 degree field of view, while a 50mm lens (considered a normal lens; closest to our natural vision) has about a 45 degree angle of view.

So if you squeezed everyone into that 8 degree field of view, it would look like there is more than there were, because you don't expect the entire crowd to be in that and you expect there to be other people.

But that isn't really what is happening in that photo:


.
It is showing like a hundred people, out of a crowd that had considerably more.

Wide shot:



So in showing a big crowd, the telephoto version from the original did a disservice to the crowd size, as compared to the wide angle from inside the hangar.

All the telelphoto lens really did was make it look like the crowd was closer to AF2 than it really was. But that isn't really manipulating in any real meaningful way.

For our hunters, think of it as looking through your range finder or scope. You have a much smaller field of view, but things look closer to you. 50mm is about your normal vision, 100mm is 2x, 200mm is 4x and 300 would be 4.5x. Another way to think of it is that for every 100mm in lens focal length, you get about 10yards of magnification. So that 300mm lens would be like being 30 yards closer. My main field sports lens is a 400mm.


For portraits, the wrong focal length can distort the face a great deal, for the same reasons at play above. I prefer being between 85mm and 200mm. A wider lens won't compress the face enough and make the nose look much more prominent than it actually is.



Wide angle on the left, telephoto on the right.



So more than you were asking, but thats how these things work.
just to add

not political or conspiracy

stuffing the hangar with everyone and having the plane off in the distance lends itself to visual tricks



This is ridiculous. You can't just pull a 757 up a couple feet away from a hangar with thousands of people. There are no visual tricks.





Quote:

packing the hangar in general allows you to take pics that may make the crows seem larger than it was


No it doesn't. It is the same as any room, arena, etc.


Quote:


having everyone in the hangar might account for the lack of crowd reflection on the plane


The places being pointed out in the first picture were on the bottom of the plane and were reflecting the ground and shadow of the plane. If you look up in the white part of the plane under the windows on the left, you can see the reflection of the hangar pretty clearly.


Quote:


but no doubt there will be photography tricks to paint their narrative, after all, photo journalism is still journalism
I don't know how to explain this any better, but there were no photography tricks. It is just the physics of the lenses used. You sound completely deranged and are trying to grasp at any straw to discredit anything and everything you can without basis. In this case, it was simply someone using a longer focal length to focus on a subject far away. There is no sign or hint at something nefarious unless you care more about supporting your half-baked conspiracies than you are in the truth.

Photojournalism is probably the least manipulated form of journalism because it is so blatantly obvious when it is, and other photojournalists call out bull ***** Plus there are tons of non-photojournalists imagery experts that will call out phony pics. Photographers (especially photojournalists) in general are not that good at photoshop and it is more graphic designers that are great with it.
PatriotAg02
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We are being lied to daily and deceived. Don't fall for it.
PJYoung
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Gigem314
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TexasAggiesWin said:

Maroon Dawn said:

Dems are super proud of all those paid rent-a-crowd posers
Like I said earlier, "Crowds don't matter" - Democrats

Next sentence - "Look at how many people are here cheering on Harris"
Also...

"Misstatements don't matter" - Democrats when Trump voters point out her numerous flip-flops and inaccurate statements...backed up by video clips.

Next sentence...
"Look!! Trump said there no people at Kamala's airport rally and he was wrong!! This is a major issue!! Got em!!"
Gigem314
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Don Powell said:

Face it, if your dad was acting like Trump you would probably be putting him in a home.
Says the side who wasn't willing to acknowledge Biden had any real problems until he was embarrassed by Trump in the debate.
pacecar02
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Guitarsoup said:

pacecar02 said:


just to add

not political or conspiracy

stuffing the hangar with everyone and having the plane off in the distance lends itself to visual tricks



This is ridiculous. You can't just pull a 757 up a couple feet away from a hangar with thousands of people. There are no visual tricks.



The point I'm making is the crowd isn't right next to the plane, they are inside the hangar, possibly 100's of feet away

if you shoot a shot low over the crowd with the plane in the background you can make it look like the crowd extends all the way to the plane






Quote:

packing the hangar in general allows you to take pics that may make the crows seem larger than it was


No it doesn't. It is the same as any room, arena, etc.


im making a general point

if you take a pic of 100 marbles spread out over an open floor vs 100 marbles in a condensed area

depending on the photo one might perceive 1 set of marbles as being more


that's all I'm saying



Quote:


having everyone in the hangar might account for the lack of crowd reflection on the plane


The places being pointed out in the first picture were on the bottom of the plane and were reflecting the ground and shadow of the plane. If you look up in the white part of the plane under the windows on the left, you can see the reflection of the hangar pretty clearly.


Right, and the people were inside the hangar, not as visible, certainly hard to see from those pics


Ag87H2O
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It's really disappointing to see some of the normally good posters here that want to focus on Trump missteps and virtually ignore how left wing Kamala Harris is and how terrible a Harris/Walz presidency would be for this country. It isn't just that they are being justifiably critical of Trump when criticism is due, it's that they go to the mat pointing out and arguing his flaws.

It's almost like they want to be right about Trump being the nominee more than they are about working to help him win the race. It's no wonder we lose. Repubicans are really good at eating their own.
Gigem314
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Ag87H2O said:

It's really disappointing to see some of the normally good posters here that want to focus on Trump missteps and virtually ignore how left wing Kamala Harris is and how terrible a Harris/Walz presidency would be for this country.
It's their way of saying they don't care about the real issues because they have to 'get' Trump without actually having to come out and say it.

There are countless video clips of Harris and Waltz making misstatements...but the loudest critics in this thread would pretend they don't exist and act like Trump's take on the Harris airport rally is THE defining moment of this campaign and a clear sign that Trump is a bad candidate.

They simply can't be taken seriously.
CanyonAg77
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Why are you quoting huge posts and not even inserting a comment?
MouthBQ98
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Yes, distracted about a stupid crowd size photo issue and OFF MESSAGE.
Oyster DuPree
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CanyonAg77 said:

Why are you quoting huge posts and not even inserting a comment?
LMCane
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how hard is it to see if there is any media or any online postings from this stop at the airport?!?

seems like it would take 10 minutes to see if there really was a crowd of humans or not.
Ag87H2O
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MouthBQ98 said:

Yes, distracted about a stupid crowd size photo issue and OFF MESSAGE.
They play right into the Democrats' hands. If they really want to beat Kamala and save this country then they better start focusing on how radical Kamala is and how her policies are nothing short of communistic.

If they can't do that because of their dislike for Trump then maybe they could at least stay silent.

I said this on another thread -

Momentum is important. You don't go after the commander when you are in the middle of the war. There will be plenty of time for criticisms and second guessing and I told you so after the campaign should Trump lose. Now, we should all be focused on trying to help him win, not bickering in house or arguing the points for the enemy. It's not hard.
pacecar02
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fixt?
Ghost of Andrew Eaton
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Ag87H2O said:

It's really disappointing to see some of the normally good posters here that want to focus on Trump missteps and virtually ignore how left wing Kamala Harris is and how terrible a Harris/Walz presidency would be for this country. It isn't just that they are being justifiably critical of Trump when criticism is due, it's that they go to the mat pointing out and arguing his flaws.

It's almost like they want to be right about Trump being the nominee more than they are about working to help him win the race. It's no wonder we lose. Repubicans are really good at eating their own.
I'm voting for Trump but I also want to vote for a candidate that could do some good. Kamala isn't it and it doesn't appear that Trump will be either. He starts to say something worthy and then "Squirrel" and we've lost him. And his flaws will cost him the election.
TRADUCTOR
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LMCane said:

how hard is it to see if there is any media or any online postings from this stop at the airport?!?

seems like it would take 10 minutes to see if there really was a crowd of humans or not.


MSM has flooded cyberspace with ai crowd images and now videos. Impossible!
https://bit.ly/1xWf863
Charpie
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Guitarsoup said:

fc2112 said:

I hold the picture is still fake. When tricks are pulled to make an event appear other than what is really was, it's fake.
So a legitimate, unedited photo can be fake if it doesn't conform to your preconceived notions?
Hi friend. Welcome to F16
rgvag11
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fc2112 said:

I hold the picture is still fake. When tricks are pulled to make an event appear other than what is really was, it's fake.

But it is not photoshopped, correct?
jrdaustin
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DallasAg03 said:

whoop1995 said:

Okay so a little math behind this for crowd size

The size of the hanger is 35,000 square feet. It had risers and stages and crowd separators, etc on the floor taking up space.
https://detroitmi.gov/departments/airport-coleman-young-international/lease-information


According to the Harris campaign 15k people were at the Detroit hanger rally. Lot of people in a little space makes it look full as well.

From the article below:
The Detroit rally on Wednesday night drew 15,000 supporters in another crucial swing state, the Harris campaign told reporters. Walz called it "the largest rally of the campaign" so far.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/aug/07/harris-walz-wisconsin-rally#:~:text=The%20Detroit%20rally%20on%20Wednesday,of%20the%20campaign%E2%80%9D%20so%20far.

Another article saying 15k people
https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/11/politics/trump-harris-crowd-size-conspiracy-theory/index.html



15k is a lot of people
Yes, it is. And I'm not surpised that Harris/Walz can generate that in the Detroit airport. It's home turf.

Now if they flew into College Station, or Butler PA (where Trump was shot), or any other heartland town with a population under 2 million (Greater Detroit population is 4.38 million urbanites and solidly Democrat), I don't believe they could pull quite the crowd. But that's just me, time will tell.
TRADUCTOR
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Post the ai vid with big ass 'satire' tag. Deeeebuuunked!
https://bit.ly/1xWf863
 
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