Yeah I don't see how this can be true. Point a gun at a local LEO and you will almost certainly be fired upon. Point anything resembling a weapon at a former president and potential leader of free world and you get to take a shot before they engage??? I cannot fathom that to be true.

Are you surprised? These same ROE cost us lives in Afghanistan and Iraq.

RED AG 98 said:

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Yeah I don't see how this can be true. Point a gun at a local LEO and you will almost certainly be fired upon. Point anything resembling a weapon at a former president and potential leader of free world and you get to take a shot before they engage??? I cannot fathom that to be true.

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Was also shaking my head about this a few minutes ago.

Absolute insanity.

When at least 4 SS Counter Snipers are all locked in on a threat to the protectee they are sworn to protect, Trump should have long been removed from the scene by the PPD, closest to him, regardless of the ROE for the snipers. The team closest had at least :42 seconds, waiting on evidence of the timing for the #2 south team. Should be very damning.

gkaggie08 said:

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aggie93 said:

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So basically they just watch the shooter until he fires and then fire back but don't bother to warn the guy who is about to be shot. Makes sense.

I'm sure some people are stupid enough to believe this.

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Right on the money here. IF the policy is to not fire until fired upon, you can bet your sweet ass that when the SS sniper radios in 'potential shooter on roof', 4-5 SS agents are tackling trump before the second syllable of potential comes over the air

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This is why this explanation falls flat. Even if their rules of engagement are so stupid as to prevent taking the first shot, they aren't going to sit and wait for that shot before clearing the stage. If this becomes the official spin from the Secret Service, then I will believe they were not incompetent but complicit.

aggie93 said:

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So basically they just watch the shooter until he fires and then fire back but don't bother to warn the guy who is about to be shot. Makes sense.

I'm sure some people are stupid enough to believe this.

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So, in this case, with no bystanders around and these guys shooting ability, you can't even take HIS right ear off before he shoots?

lb3 said:

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gkaggie08 said:

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aggie93 said:

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So basically they just watch the shooter until he fires and then fire back but don't bother to warn the guy who is about to be shot. Makes sense.

I'm sure some people are stupid enough to believe this.

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Right on the money here. IF the policy is to not fire until fired upon, you can bet your sweet ass that when the SS sniper radios in 'potential shooter on roof', 4-5 SS agents are tackling trump before the second syllable of potential comes over the air

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This is why this explanation falls flat. Even if their rules of engagement are so stupid as to prevent taking the first shot, they aren't going to sit and wait for that shot before clearing the stage. If this becomes the official spin from the Secret Service, then I will believe they were not incompetent but complicit.

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100% true. This is another great point.

aggie93 said:

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So basically they just watch the shooter until he fires and then fire back but don't bother to warn the guy who is about to be shot. Makes sense.

I'm sure some people are stupid enough to believe this.

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Read it again. She says the rule is to warn the intelligence arm or whatever that something is up. But the shooter fired before that could happen.

The problem is not that they waited until he fired,it was that they didn't see him up there in position as soon as they should have.

MooreTrucker said:

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aggie93 said:

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So basically they just watch the shooter until he fires and then fire back but don't bother to warn the guy who is about to be shot. Makes sense.

I'm sure some people are stupid enough to believe this.

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Read it again. She says the rule is to warn the intelligence arm or whatever that something is up. But the shooter fired before that could happen.

The problem is not that they waited until he fired,it was that they didn't see him up there in position as soon as they should have.

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They were watching him for 3 minutes and people could be heard audibly yelling there was a shooter. Believe what you want but none of this makes sense. At best this was gross incompetence. At worst it was a government sponsored assassination attempt. Period. They can talk about X or Y procedure but you don't allow a guy to crawl up a roof in a perfect shooting position 150 feet away. Trump wasn't warned prior to the shot.

Fake news.

What are you calling fake news?

MooreTrucker said:

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aggie93 said:

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So basically they just watch the shooter until he fires and then fire back but don't bother to warn the guy who is about to be shot. Makes sense.

I'm sure some people are stupid enough to believe this.

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Read it again. She says the rule is to warn the intelligence arm or whatever that something is up. But the shooter fired before that could happen.

The problem is not that they waited until he fired,it was that they didn't see him up there in position as soon as they should have.

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I counted 30 seconds on one video. I don't believe that nonsense.

If what she is reporting about SS ROE is true (it isn't), Trump, Biden, Pence, and Obama would likely have been "fired upon" countless times over the last 16 years.

aggie93 said:

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MooreTrucker said:

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aggie93 said:

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So basically they just watch the shooter until he fires and then fire back but don't bother to warn the guy who is about to be shot. Makes sense.

I'm sure some people are stupid enough to believe this.

---

Read it again. She says the rule is to warn the intelligence arm or whatever that something is up. But the shooter fired before that could happen.

The problem is not that they waited until he fired,it was that they didn't see him up there in position as soon as they should have.

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They were watching him for 3 minutes and people could be heard audibly yelling there was a shooter. Believe what you want but none of this makes sense. At best this was gross incompetence. At worst it was a government sponsored assassination attempt. Period. They can talk about X or Y procedure but you don't allow a guy to crawl up a roof in a perfect shooting position 150 feet away. Trump wasn't warned prior to the shot.

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I think that 3 minute thing has been proven to be false (a Reddit hoax, it's in another thread here) but the rest of what you said about the witnesses is correct and I agree with you on that.

They clearly knew about the shooter for a period of time longer than 30s. They got an officer on the roof which obviously wasn't already right there, since, you know, a guy with a gun climbed up there in the first place. That's gonna take a few minutes.

Trump should have been on the ground before the first shot. Either this is a comms failure or there is something more sinister at play.

Remember the Reagan assassination attempt was also a SS failure. This isn't the first, but the most egrigous for sure.

Pennsylvania govenor had just vetoed a open carry bill, if this had been in Texas that guy would have been lit up by multiple bystanders.

MooreTrucker said:

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aggie93 said:

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MooreTrucker said:

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aggie93 said:

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So basically they just watch the shooter until he fires and then fire back but don't bother to warn the guy who is about to be shot. Makes sense.

I'm sure some people are stupid enough to believe this.

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Read it again. She says the rule is to warn the intelligence arm or whatever that something is up. But the shooter fired before that could happen.

The problem is not that they waited until he fired,it was that they didn't see him up there in position as soon as they should have.

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They were watching him for 3 minutes and people could be heard audibly yelling there was a shooter. Believe what you want but none of this makes sense. At best this was gross incompetence. At worst it was a government sponsored assassination attempt. Period. They can talk about X or Y procedure but you don't allow a guy to crawl up a roof in a perfect shooting position 150 feet away. Trump wasn't warned prior to the shot.

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I think that 3 minute thing has been proven to be false (a Reddit hoax, it's in another thread here) but the rest of what you said about the witnesses is correct and I agree with you on that.

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Speaking of Reddit, saw a post purportedly from the SS sniper who took the shot claiming that he asked for approval to take the shot before the shooter fired, and was told "no" by the CIA. There's lots of crazy crap out there.

HarryJ33tamu said:

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Secret Service can't shoot someone aiming a rifle at a President until said person fires?

WTF

There is no chance that has always been a rule. Or has ever been a rule.

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This.

I remember specifically being told not to be practicing drill on a specific day when VP Bush was visiting campus. I was on the Fish Drill Team. They told us that there were snipers on campus.

I can't imagine that a reactive approach to a weapon in proximity to the guarded individual has always been a rule.

MooreTrucker said:

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aggie93 said:

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MooreTrucker said:

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aggie93 said:

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So basically they just watch the shooter until he fires and then fire back but don't bother to warn the guy who is about to be shot. Makes sense.

I'm sure some people are stupid enough to believe this.

---

Read it again. She says the rule is to warn the intelligence arm or whatever that something is up. But the shooter fired before that could happen.

The problem is not that they waited until he fired,it was that they didn't see him up there in position as soon as they should have.

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They were watching him for 3 minutes and people could be heard audibly yelling there was a shooter. Believe what you want but none of this makes sense. At best this was gross incompetence. At worst it was a government sponsored assassination attempt. Period. They can talk about X or Y procedure but you don't allow a guy to crawl up a roof in a perfect shooting position 150 feet away. Trump wasn't warned prior to the shot.

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I think that 3 minute thing has been proven to be false (a Reddit hoax, it's in another thread here) but the rest of what you said about the witnesses is correct and I agree with you on that.

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If it was 5 seconds that was more than enough time. This is what they are trained for. If that isn't protocol and what they are trained for them they all need to be fired. Their job is protecting their subject.

I'm just done with listening to excuses on any of this stuff and I'm not going to give them any oxygen. It's either incompetence or complicity. Every hour that passes and no one has been fired or suspended makes me believe the latter.

The last thing SS needs to be is reactive.

If you want to sneak up on a building roof around a president and use a telescope, 100% you should be shot if within the perimeter.

BS! The advance team would have identified the building as a possible threat, cleared it, and blocked it, or monitored it. All Counter Snipers, protection detail, and assets, know where each other at all times, and if they move they give sit reps (moving towards bld C from the south side, unknown subject on building).

One thing I am 100% certain of.

This is the not the ROE for the detail that protects Biden and Harris.

edit - and Obama

It makes sense that that's how it should work and how it used to work, but you have to remember this current version of the Secret Service is much more diverse, equitable, and inclusive. I am not so sure this is it highly coordinated team of operators.

G Martin 87 said:

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MooreTrucker said:

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aggie93 said:

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MooreTrucker said:

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aggie93 said:

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So basically they just watch the shooter until he fires and then fire back but don't bother to warn the guy who is about to be shot. Makes sense.

I'm sure some people are stupid enough to believe this.

---

Read it again. She says the rule is to warn the intelligence arm or whatever that something is up. But the shooter fired before that could happen.

The problem is not that they waited until he fired,it was that they didn't see him up there in position as soon as they should have.

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They were watching him for 3 minutes and people could be heard audibly yelling there was a shooter. Believe what you want but none of this makes sense. At best this was gross incompetence. At worst it was a government sponsored assassination attempt. Period. They can talk about X or Y procedure but you don't allow a guy to crawl up a roof in a perfect shooting position 150 feet away. Trump wasn't warned prior to the shot.

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I think that 3 minute thing has been proven to be false (a Reddit hoax, it's in another thread here) but the rest of what you said about the witnesses is correct and I agree with you on that.

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Speaking of Reddit, saw a post purportedly from the SS sniper who took the shot claiming that he asked for approval to take the shot before the shooter fired, and was told "no" by the CIA. There's lots of crazy crap out there.

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It's Reddit. 99.99999% it's a troll just trying to win internet points. Or, "for the lulz" as the kids say.