Foreverconservative said:

---

The DMPS had a "collapsible stock" so it could have been reduced down six inches max is it was a true collapsible.

Now the probability of Wray knowing the difference in a collapsible and a folder is likely high.

Had it been a folder it could fit in a backpack. Collapsible not so much. There would have been eight to ten inches protruding from the back.

---

Just trying to make collapsible stocks the next boogeyman. Just like bump-stocks were post Vegas.

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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Quote:

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Crooks was not in any of the agency's "holdings."

---

New vernacular alert.

First time we've ever heard this term used in this manner. Can't recall a time where a suspect was referred to like this.

Q: Did you know about the guy?

A: No he was not within our holdings.

If this was some dialogue in a movie it would be struck from the script as confusing and ambiguous. Bizarre.

---

I interpret "holdings" implies possession and control. So, maybe Cooks wasn't an asset. However, this terminology confirms they have assets in holding capable of similar action.

Guitarsoup said:

---

The big thing that stands out about the local snipers to me:

1. Why were they inside looking out windows. They have a much smaller field of view than being on the roof.

2. They said they told the USSS they couldn't supply snipers to cover it, but apparently had them, they were just inside the building?

Did they just want to stay inside because the tin roof would be hot AF?

---

And yet the snipers behind Trump were also on a hot AF metal roof and were just fine.

This whole fiasco boils down to two complete screw ups.

Their was NO ONE on the most obvious position for a sniper to take shots at Trump or the crowd.

The local LE in the 2nd story of the AGR complex left their post to look for Crooks.

Eliminate any one of those and Crooks is stopped at least from getting on the roof and shooting at Trump (maybe could have tried shooting up the crowd from outside the fenced off areas). Everything else is just more holes in the swiss cheese but these are the two largest holes.

The bold part is where any conspiracy completely falls apart. It would be impossible for there to not be multiple conspirators, including the local LE, to open that 6m window for Crooks to get onto the roof and start shooting. Someone would have had to have been watching Crooks wonder around (and not get stopped by any LE) then tell the 2nd story snipers to BOTH leave their post so he can climb on the roof and start shooting.

agracer said:

---

drcrinum said:

---

WOW. @chiproytx just asked FBI Director Chris Wray if any FBI agents have expressed displeasure over the fact that Donald Trump survived the assassination attempt.

Wray said there have been at least 2 instances…and said one of those agents has been “referred”… whatever that…

— Laura Loomer (@LauraLoomer) July 24, 2024

And we have confidence in the FBI?

---

from Loomer Tweet

"So in other words, we have FBI agents who are working at the agency responsible for the investigation of the attempted assassination of Donald Trump who wanted him dead."

She's projecting. He just said two agents were upset the attempt was unsuccessful. That does not mean they're working the case.

---

You're projecting. You quoted her tweet "FBI agents who are working at the agency responsible for the investigation of the attempted assassination of Donald Trump who wanted him dead."

She didn't say they were working the case, she said it's disgraceful they work there.

agracer said:

---

Guitarsoup said:

---

The big thing that stands out about the local snipers to me:

1. Why were they inside looking out windows. They have a much smaller field of view than being on the roof.

2. They said they told the USSS they couldn't supply snipers to cover it, but apparently had them, they were just inside the building?

Did they just want to stay inside because the tin roof would be hot AF?

---

And yet the snipers behind Trump were also on a hot AF metal roof and were just fine.

This whole fiasco boils down to two complete screw ups.

Their was NO ONE on the most obvious position for a sniper to take shots at Trump or the crowd.

The local LE in the 2nd story of the AGR complex left their post to look for Crooks.

Eliminate any one of those and Crooks is stopped at least from getting on the roof and shooting at Trump (maybe could have tried shooting up the crowd from outside the fenced off areas). Everything else is just more holes in the swiss cheese but these are the two largest holes.

The bold part is where any conspiracy completely falls apart. It would be impossible for there to not be multiple conspirators, including the local LE, to open that 6m window for Crooks to get onto the roof and start shooting. Someone would have had to have been watching Crooks wonder around (and not get stopped by any LE) then tell the 2nd story snipers to BOTH leave their post so he can climb on the roof and start shooting.

---

I disagree, there only needs to be one at this event and thats the SAC. Regardless of him ordering the two to leave post or have knowledge of it while at same time knowing the other 4 are also focused on a single 10-15 degree piece of the pie. To our knowledge that is 100% of Overwatch and a total loss in security control over the event, which by SOP should have triggered the removal of the protectee until security restored and the threat cleared.

If coms were not automatically recorded I would be asking for a manual log. Which if proper would include the when, who, where, what even if the what was not detailed.

Quote:

---

I disagree, there only needs to be one at this event and thats the SAC. Regardless of him ordering the two to leave post or have knowledge of it while at same time knowing the other 4 are also focused on a single 10-15 degree piece of the pie. To our knowledge that is 100% of Overwatch and a total loss in security control over the event, which by SOP should have triggered the removal of the protectee until security restored and the threat cleared.

If coms were not automatically recorded I would be asking for a manual log. Which if proper would include the when, who, where, what even if the what was not detailed.

---

Agree.

Horn_in_Aggieland said:

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Ag with kids said:

---

drcrinum said:

---

WOW. @chiproytx just asked FBI Director Chris Wray if any FBI agents have expressed displeasure over the fact that Donald Trump survived the assassination attempt.

Wray said there have been at least 2 instances…and said one of those agents has been “referred”… whatever that…

— Laura Loomer (@LauraLoomer) July 24, 2024

And we have confidence in the FBI?

---

Only ONE of the two was "referred"?

And the other one? A stern talking to?

---

I believe the Congressman asked if anyone at the FBI expressed disappointment that Trump survived, not specifically about agents at the FBI.

Wray replied by saying that there were a couple of incidents in which one person said something Wray thought was inappropriate and that person was referred to "internal affairs."

---

Thanks.

Should have known that idiot Loomer would get the context completely wrong...

JFABNRGR said:

---

agracer said:

---

Guitarsoup said:

---

The big thing that stands out about the local snipers to me:

1. Why were they inside looking out windows. They have a much smaller field of view than being on the roof.

2. They said they told the USSS they couldn't supply snipers to cover it, but apparently had them, they were just inside the building?

Did they just want to stay inside because the tin roof would be hot AF?

---

And yet the snipers behind Trump were also on a hot AF metal roof and were just fine.

This whole fiasco boils down to two complete screw ups.

Their was NO ONE on the most obvious position for a sniper to take shots at Trump or the crowd.

The local LE in the 2nd story of the AGR complex left their post to look for Crooks.

Eliminate any one of those and Crooks is stopped at least from getting on the roof and shooting at Trump (maybe could have tried shooting up the crowd from outside the fenced off areas). Everything else is just more holes in the swiss cheese but these are the two largest holes.

The bold part is where any conspiracy completely falls apart. It would be impossible for there to not be multiple conspirators, including the local LE, to open that 6m window for Crooks to get onto the roof and start shooting. Someone would have had to have been watching Crooks wonder around (and not get stopped by any LE) then tell the 2nd story snipers to BOTH leave their post so he can climb on the roof and start shooting.

---

I disagree, there only needs to be one at this event and thats the SAC. Regardless of him ordering the two to leave post or have knowledge of it while at same time knowing the other 4 are also focused on a single 10-15 degree piece of the pie. To our knowledge that is 100% of Overwatch and a total loss in security control over the event, which by SOP should have triggered the removal of the protectee until security restored and the threat cleared.

If coms were not automatically recorded I would be asking for a manual log. Which if proper would include the when, who, where, what even if the what was not detailed.

---

Snipers should never leave the observation post they provide overwatch. Even if they were as short handed as they said they would you leave one up and the other advances to the target. The were ORDERED off the roof

JFABNRGR said:

---

agracer said:

---

Guitarsoup said:

---

The big thing that stands out about the local snipers to me:

1. Why were they inside looking out windows. They have a much smaller field of view than being on the roof.

2. They said they told the USSS they couldn't supply snipers to cover it, but apparently had them, they were just inside the building?

Did they just want to stay inside because the tin roof would be hot AF?

---

And yet the snipers behind Trump were also on a hot AF metal roof and were just fine.

This whole fiasco boils down to two complete screw ups.

Their was NO ONE on the most obvious position for a sniper to take shots at Trump or the crowd.

The local LE in the 2nd story of the AGR complex left their post to look for Crooks.

Eliminate any one of those and Crooks is stopped at least from getting on the roof and shooting at Trump (maybe could have tried shooting up the crowd from outside the fenced off areas). Everything else is just more holes in the swiss cheese but these are the two largest holes.

The bold part is where any conspiracy completely falls apart. It would be impossible for there to not be multiple conspirators, including the local LE, to open that 6m window for Crooks to get onto the roof and start shooting. Someone would have had to have been watching Crooks wonder around (and not get stopped by any LE) then tell the 2nd story snipers to BOTH leave their post so he can climb on the roof and start shooting.

---

I disagree, there only needs to be one at this event and thats the SAC. Regardless of him ordering the two to leave post or have knowledge of it while at same time knowing the other 4 are also focused on a single 10-15 degree piece of the pie. To our knowledge that is 100% of Overwatch and a total loss in security control over the event, which by SOP should have triggered the removal of the protectee until security restored and the threat cleared.

If coms were not automatically recorded I would be asking for a manual log. Which if proper would include the when, who, where, what even if the what was not detailed.

---

SAC ? Can we please stop using acronyms without defining them first?

Also, bold part; what??? Who is "him" and "other 4" and "10-15 degree piece of the pie"? Sorry, you lost me here?

Are you talking about the LE/Snipers on the 2nd floor and the two other sniper teams?

P.U.T.U said:

---

JFABNRGR said:

---

agracer said:

---

Guitarsoup said:

---

The big thing that stands out about the local snipers to me:

1. Why were they inside looking out windows. They have a much smaller field of view than being on the roof.

2. They said they told the USSS they couldn't supply snipers to cover it, but apparently had them, they were just inside the building?

Did they just want to stay inside because the tin roof would be hot AF?

---

And yet the snipers behind Trump were also on a hot AF metal roof and were just fine.

This whole fiasco boils down to two complete screw ups.

Their was NO ONE on the most obvious position for a sniper to take shots at Trump or the crowd.

The local LE in the 2nd story of the AGR complex left their post to look for Crooks.

Eliminate any one of those and Crooks is stopped at least from getting on the roof and shooting at Trump (maybe could have tried shooting up the crowd from outside the fenced off areas). Everything else is just more holes in the swiss cheese but these are the two largest holes.

The bold part is where any conspiracy completely falls apart. It would be impossible for there to not be multiple conspirators, including the local LE, to open that 6m window for Crooks to get onto the roof and start shooting. Someone would have had to have been watching Crooks wonder around (and not get stopped by any LE) then tell the 2nd story snipers to BOTH leave their post so he can climb on the roof and start shooting.

---

I disagree, there only needs to be one at this event and thats the SAC. Regardless of him ordering the two to leave post or have knowledge of it while at same time knowing the other 4 are also focused on a single 10-15 degree piece of the pie. To our knowledge that is 100% of Overwatch and a total loss in security control over the event, which by SOP should have triggered the removal of the protectee until security restored and the threat cleared.

If coms were not automatically recorded I would be asking for a manual log. Which if proper would include the when, who, where, what even if the what was not detailed.

---

Snipers should never leave the observation post they provide overwatch. Even if they were as short handed as they said they would you leave one up and the other advances to the target. The were ORDERED off the roof

---

There's no evidence of this so far. I would think the state police commissioner would have volunteered that info if it were true, given that it would help clear his officers who left their post.

agracer said:

---

JFABNRGR said:

---

agracer said:

---

Guitarsoup said:

---

The big thing that stands out about the local snipers to me:

1. Why were they inside looking out windows. They have a much smaller field of view than being on the roof.

2. They said they told the USSS they couldn't supply snipers to cover it, but apparently had them, they were just inside the building?

Did they just want to stay inside because the tin roof would be hot AF?

---

And yet the snipers behind Trump were also on a hot AF metal roof and were just fine.

This whole fiasco boils down to two complete screw ups.

Their was NO ONE on the most obvious position for a sniper to take shots at Trump or the crowd.

The local LE in the 2nd story of the AGR complex left their post to look for Crooks.

Eliminate any one of those and Crooks is stopped at least from getting on the roof and shooting at Trump (maybe could have tried shooting up the crowd from outside the fenced off areas). Everything else is just more holes in the swiss cheese but these are the two largest holes.

The bold part is where any conspiracy completely falls apart. It would be impossible for there to not be multiple conspirators, including the local LE, to open that 6m window for Crooks to get onto the roof and start shooting. Someone would have had to have been watching Crooks wonder around (and not get stopped by any LE) then tell the 2nd story snipers to BOTH leave their post so he can climb on the roof and start shooting.

---

I disagree, there only needs to be one at this event and thats the SAC. Regardless of him ordering the two to leave post or have knowledge of it while at same time knowing the other 4 are also focused on a single 10-15 degree piece of the pie. To our knowledge that is 100% of Overwatch and a total loss in security control over the event, which by SOP should have triggered the removal of the protectee until security restored and the threat cleared.

If coms were not automatically recorded I would be asking for a manual log. Which if proper would include the when, who, where, what even if the what was not detailed.

---

SAC ? Can we please stop using acronyms without defining them first?

Also, bold part; what??? Who is "him" and "other 4" and "10-15 degree piece of the pie"? Sorry, you lost me here?

Are you talking about the LE/Snipers on the 2nd floor and the two other sniper teams?

---

SAC is special agent in charge of this event who has ultimate responsibility for the security of the proctee and the event itself. I assumed this was a him but it could certainly be a female. IMO also needs to be terminated.

The bold part is the SAC either ordering the two in the building to investigate (leave post) while also knowing the other 4 snipers (red barns) are focused on this same area (where shooter was) These 6 snipers have ASSIGNED sectors of fire/Owatch that is supposed to provide 360 security. Now there are conditions which may delete an area by physical structure etc where no threat could come from but IMO this location required 360 decree coverage. Once all 6 abandon their posts or sectors of fire Security is Lost and I would argue its lost when one position no longer has surveillance or fire capability over their assigned sector especially when the set up of the three positions is already weak. IMO another team should have been opposite the stage facing Trump and the other three teams. Though no elevated structure is close a manlift could have easily been used and they already had several rental units on site.

You don't just leave your responsibility without everyone knowing it and thats why there are pairs up there and most likely have empty gatorade bottles to piss in.

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

P.U.T.U said:

---

JFABNRGR said:

---

agracer said:

---

Guitarsoup said:

---

The big thing that stands out about the local snipers to me:

1. Why were they inside looking out windows. They have a much smaller field of view than being on the roof.

2. They said they told the USSS they couldn't supply snipers to cover it, but apparently had them, they were just inside the building?

Did they just want to stay inside because the tin roof would be hot AF?

---

And yet the snipers behind Trump were also on a hot AF metal roof and were just fine.

This whole fiasco boils down to two complete screw ups.

Their was NO ONE on the most obvious position for a sniper to take shots at Trump or the crowd.

The local LE in the 2nd story of the AGR complex left their post to look for Crooks.

Eliminate any one of those and Crooks is stopped at least from getting on the roof and shooting at Trump (maybe could have tried shooting up the crowd from outside the fenced off areas). Everything else is just more holes in the swiss cheese but these are the two largest holes.

The bold part is where any conspiracy completely falls apart. It would be impossible for there to not be multiple conspirators, including the local LE, to open that 6m window for Crooks to get onto the roof and start shooting. Someone would have had to have been watching Crooks wonder around (and not get stopped by any LE) then tell the 2nd story snipers to BOTH leave their post so he can climb on the roof and start shooting.

---

I disagree, there only needs to be one at this event and thats the SAC. Regardless of him ordering the two to leave post or have knowledge of it while at same time knowing the other 4 are also focused on a single 10-15 degree piece of the pie. To our knowledge that is 100% of Overwatch and a total loss in security control over the event, which by SOP should have triggered the removal of the protectee until security restored and the threat cleared.

If coms were not automatically recorded I would be asking for a manual log. Which if proper would include the when, who, where, what even if the what was not detailed.

---

Snipers should never leave the observation post they provide overwatch. Even if they were as short handed as they said they would you leave one up and the other advances to the target. The were ORDERED off the roof

---

There's no evidence of this so far. I would think the state police commissioner would have volunteered that info if it were true, given that it would help clear his officers who left their post.

---

Who can imagine a scenario where both members of a sniper overwatch team decide to abandon their post?

and second;

Who can imagine a scenario where a commander orders the sniper overwatch team off their post while Trump is at the podium?

Problem is we gotta pick one or the other. One must be true.

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

P.U.T.U said:

---

JFABNRGR said:

---

agracer said:

---

Guitarsoup said:

---

The big thing that stands out about the local snipers to me:

1. Why were they inside looking out windows. They have a much smaller field of view than being on the roof.

2. They said they told the USSS they couldn't supply snipers to cover it, but apparently had them, they were just inside the building?

Did they just want to stay inside because the tin roof would be hot AF?

---

And yet the snipers behind Trump were also on a hot AF metal roof and were just fine.

This whole fiasco boils down to two complete screw ups.

Their was NO ONE on the most obvious position for a sniper to take shots at Trump or the crowd.

The local LE in the 2nd story of the AGR complex left their post to look for Crooks.

Eliminate any one of those and Crooks is stopped at least from getting on the roof and shooting at Trump (maybe could have tried shooting up the crowd from outside the fenced off areas). Everything else is just more holes in the swiss cheese but these are the two largest holes.

The bold part is where any conspiracy completely falls apart. It would be impossible for there to not be multiple conspirators, including the local LE, to open that 6m window for Crooks to get onto the roof and start shooting. Someone would have had to have been watching Crooks wonder around (and not get stopped by any LE) then tell the 2nd story snipers to BOTH leave their post so he can climb on the roof and start shooting.

---

I disagree, there only needs to be one at this event and thats the SAC. Regardless of him ordering the two to leave post or have knowledge of it while at same time knowing the other 4 are also focused on a single 10-15 degree piece of the pie. To our knowledge that is 100% of Overwatch and a total loss in security control over the event, which by SOP should have triggered the removal of the protectee until security restored and the threat cleared.

If coms were not automatically recorded I would be asking for a manual log. Which if proper would include the when, who, where, what even if the what was not detailed.

---

Snipers should never leave the observation post they provide overwatch. Even if they were as short handed as they said they would you leave one up and the other advances to the target. The were ORDERED off the roof

---

There's no evidence of this so far. I would think the state police commissioner would have volunteered that info if it were true, given that it would help clear his officers who left their post.

---

Ordered or not they should NOT have abandoned their post and if they did so the WHOLE team should have known about it prior to Abandoning, which should have triggered Trump to be removed.

Trump being at the podium was prime-time. The fundamental reason that they were there in the first place. The security team wasn't there to protect the general public. It was there to protect Trump. So to pull guys off their post or have guys decide on their own to leave their post while Trump at the podium warrants some kind of reasonable explanation.

As has been pointed out before, It's inconceivable that both guys abandon their post while Trump is at the podium speaking without someone knowing. You just don't just randomly decide to leave your post without calling in first or being ordered to do so.

According to Bongino last week…

SS assigned a counter sniper post on the roof for Leo's. A few days before the rally they replied they aren't CS trained only sniper trained. Being only sniper trained they could do their job from inside the building because it would be hot on the roof.

SS agreed that if they weren't CS then inside the building would be sufficient and signed off of the change.

JFABNRGR said:

---

agracer said:

---

JFABNRGR said:

---

agracer said:

---

Guitarsoup said:

---

The big thing that stands out about the local snipers to me:

1. Why were they inside looking out windows. They have a much smaller field of view than being on the roof.

2. They said they told the USSS they couldn't supply snipers to cover it, but apparently had them, they were just inside the building?

Did they just want to stay inside because the tin roof would be hot AF?

---

And yet the snipers behind Trump were also on a hot AF metal roof and were just fine.

This whole fiasco boils down to two complete screw ups.

Their was NO ONE on the most obvious position for a sniper to take shots at Trump or the crowd.

The local LE in the 2nd story of the AGR complex left their post to look for Crooks.

Eliminate any one of those and Crooks is stopped at least from getting on the roof and shooting at Trump (maybe could have tried shooting up the crowd from outside the fenced off areas). Everything else is just more holes in the swiss cheese but these are the two largest holes.

The bold part is where any conspiracy completely falls apart. It would be impossible for there to not be multiple conspirators, including the local LE, to open that 6m window for Crooks to get onto the roof and start shooting. Someone would have had to have been watching Crooks wonder around (and not get stopped by any LE) then tell the 2nd story snipers to BOTH leave their post so he can climb on the roof and start shooting.

---

I disagree, there only needs to be one at this event and thats the SAC. Regardless of him ordering the two to leave post or have knowledge of it while at same time knowing the other 4 are also focused on a single 10-15 degree piece of the pie. To our knowledge that is 100% of Overwatch and a total loss in security control over the event, which by SOP should have triggered the removal of the protectee until security restored and the threat cleared.

If coms were not automatically recorded I would be asking for a manual log. Which if proper would include the when, who, where, what even if the what was not detailed.

---

SAC ? Can we please stop using acronyms without defining them first?

Also, bold part; what??? Who is "him" and "other 4" and "10-15 degree piece of the pie"? Sorry, you lost me here?

Are you talking about the LE/Snipers on the 2nd floor and the two other sniper teams?

---

SAC is special agent in charge of this event who has ultimate responsibility for the security of the proctee and the event itself. I assumed this was a him but it could certainly be a female. IMO also needs to be terminated.

The bold part is the SAC either ordering the two in the building to investigate (leave post) while also knowing the other 4 snipers (red barns) are focused on this same area (where shooter was) These 6 snipers have ASSIGNED sectors of fire/Owatch that is supposed to provide 360 security. Now there are conditions which may delete an area by physical structure etc where no threat could come from but IMO this location required 360 decree coverage. Once all 6 abandon their posts or sectors of fire Security is Lost and I would argue its lost when one position no longer has surveillance or fire capability over their assigned sector especially when the set up of the three positions is already weak. IMO another team should have been opposite the stage facing Trump and the other three teams. Though no elevated structure is close a manlift could have easily been used and they already had several rental units on site.

You don't just leave your responsibility without everyone knowing it and thats why there are pairs up there and most likely have empty gatorade bottles to piss in.

---

Thanks for the clarification.

That would imply the SAC was in on the conspiracy to tell the two to leave their post at exactly the right time, but then he'd have to know Crooks was in position to get on the roof right at that time. So, now we need someone else watching Crooks AND communicating with the SAC outside of normal comms. Also, they relied on everyone else in LE at the event allowing Crooks to wonder around for an hour (?) and never bet stopped or questioned by anyone.

Not saying you are all in on the conspiracy stuff, just pointing out all the holes in those conspiracy theory's..

The two biggest holes are still no one was on the roof to deter any potential shooters and the two snipers on the second floor left their post right as Crooks was scaling the roof and began shooting.

Then they signed off on a known hole in coverage. That is intentional and reckless, at best.

Ellis Wyatt said:

---

Then they signed off on a known hole in coverage. That is intentional and reckless, at best.

---

maybe so. But your basically screwed either way if you want a post for counter sniper and don't have a team trained for it.

Heck reports said any counter sniper coverage was only approved a few days before the rally

Ellis Wyatt said:

---

Then they signed off on a known hole in coverage. That is intentional and reckless, at best.

---

There were ways to mitigate such a hole in coverage (referring to the two ESU agents leaving their post in the second floor of that bulding and still have 360 degree overwatch but those mitigations were not utilized that day. (People stationed on the water tower or drones, for instance.)

No redundancy, no back-up was present. But Jill Biden had twice the number in her detail the same day at the same time, inside a casino with massive surveillance cameras and magnetonomers preexisting.

Also haven't seen it discussed but my assumption is the guys in tactical gear on the roof with the dead shooter were the guys busting through the locked gate with the patrol car. Those guys scrambled under the fence and were sprinting to the agr building in that clip.

And in the roof top clip those guys mentioned something about "we aren't sure we just got up here and got on the roof as fast as we could"

drcrinum said:

---

WOW. @chiproytx just asked FBI Director Chris Wray if any FBI agents have expressed displeasure over the fact that Donald Trump survived the assassination attempt.

Wray said there have been at least 2 instances…and said one of those agents has been “referred”… whatever that…

— Laura Loomer (@LauraLoomer) July 24, 2024

And we have confidence in the FBI?

---

Did Wray confess he was the 2nd guy that expressed displeasure?

JFABNRGR said:

---

J. Walter Weatherman said:

---

P.U.T.U said:

---

JFABNRGR said:

---

agracer said:

---

Guitarsoup said:

---

The big thing that stands out about the local snipers to me:

1. Why were they inside looking out windows. They have a much smaller field of view than being on the roof.

2. They said they told the USSS they couldn't supply snipers to cover it, but apparently had them, they were just inside the building?

Did they just want to stay inside because the tin roof would be hot AF?

---

And yet the snipers behind Trump were also on a hot AF metal roof and were just fine.

This whole fiasco boils down to two complete screw ups.

Their was NO ONE on the most obvious position for a sniper to take shots at Trump or the crowd.

The local LE in the 2nd story of the AGR complex left their post to look for Crooks.

Eliminate any one of those and Crooks is stopped at least from getting on the roof and shooting at Trump (maybe could have tried shooting up the crowd from outside the fenced off areas). Everything else is just more holes in the swiss cheese but these are the two largest holes.

The bold part is where any conspiracy completely falls apart. It would be impossible for there to not be multiple conspirators, including the local LE, to open that 6m window for Crooks to get onto the roof and start shooting. Someone would have had to have been watching Crooks wonder around (and not get stopped by any LE) then tell the 2nd story snipers to BOTH leave their post so he can climb on the roof and start shooting.

---

I disagree, there only needs to be one at this event and thats the SAC. Regardless of him ordering the two to leave post or have knowledge of it while at same time knowing the other 4 are also focused on a single 10-15 degree piece of the pie. To our knowledge that is 100% of Overwatch and a total loss in security control over the event, which by SOP should have triggered the removal of the protectee until security restored and the threat cleared.

If coms were not automatically recorded I would be asking for a manual log. Which if proper would include the when, who, where, what even if the what was not detailed.

---

Snipers should never leave the observation post they provide overwatch. Even if they were as short handed as they said they would you leave one up and the other advances to the target. The were ORDERED off the roof

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There's no evidence of this so far. I would think the state police commissioner would have volunteered that info if it were true, given that it would help clear his officers who left their post.

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Ordered or not they should NOT have abandoned their post and if they did so the WHOLE team should have known about it prior to Abandoning, which should have triggered Trump to be removed.

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I agree. Huge mistake and failure on their part. But at that point all they knew was "hey we have seen this shady looking guy wandering around the building, can someone come help us look." No indication of a weapon and he wasn't on the roof yet. So I don't know that, based on their operating procedures, that triggers Trump getting pulled off stage.

Lonestar_Ag09 said:

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Also haven't seen it discussed but my assumption is the guys in tactical gear on the roof with the dead shooter were the guys busting through the locked gate with the patrol car. Those guys scrambled under the fence and were sprinting to the agr building in that clip.

And in the roof top clip those guys mentioned something about "we aren't sure we just got up here and got on the roof as fast as we could"

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And it was the state and local guys with body cams. No federal agents use body cams that I am aware of. Hell the FBI doesn't even record interviews neither video nor audio.

Again, state open records requests will yield more and faster results than any federal FOIA.

One other thing that both The Hubs and I caught from the bodycam of the state ESU guys getting up on the roof and finding Crooks' body. They clearly said there were casings on BOTH sides of the body and then counted them out loud intil they reached a total of eight.

Both sides of his body? He moved? Or was moved? Should have only been one ejection port on one side. That made no sense.

With all the Homeland Security grant money being doled out to local LE, it's wild that part of the issue is we don't have people trained up.

They got the gear and look good in it, but nobody trained on it and nobody there to maintain it. That's typically how grants work though.

After 9-11 there was a concerted effort to 'militarize' the local police forces nationwide. At this very moment there is probably a surplus MRAP rusting away in the back-40 of your local justice center, but we don't have anyone in the entire state of Pennsylvania who's trained to seamlessly augment a USSS security detail.

This was the cited justification them creating a whole new agency after 9-11 and lumping all these independent agencies under a common umbrella. 23-years out now we shocked that creation of a bloated new federal agency ostensibly didn't solve anything.

You think this little town of 13k people was getting millions of dollars of high speed stuff?

aggiehawg said:

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Ellis Wyatt said:

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Then they signed off on a known hole in coverage. That is intentional and reckless, at best.

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There were ways to mitigate such a hole in coverage (referring to the two ESU agents leaving their post in the second floor of that bulding and still have 360 degree overwatch but those mitigations were not utilized that day. (People stationed on the water tower or drones, for instance.)

No redundancy, no back-up was present. But Jill Biden had twice the number in her detail the same day at the same time, inside a casino with massive surveillance cameras and magnetonomers preexisting.

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That was by design.

Guitarsoup said:

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You think this little town of 13k people was getting millions of dollars of high speed stuff?

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'Stuff' wasn't the issue here and looks to have worked to their detriment.

Climbing up a roof and not falling off a roof would be easier without 30lbs of unnecessary gear.

However, video evidence indicates it wasn't just them. Looked like there were a number of local cops roaming around in the background looking like they just jumped in with a ranger battalion.

So did they have a bunch of unnecessary high-speed stuff, maybe. But let's nail down the fundamentals of standing a post before we get too high speed. That's all I'm trying to point out here.

aggiehawg said:

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Lonestar_Ag09 said:

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Also haven't seen it discussed but my assumption is the guys in tactical gear on the roof with the dead shooter were the guys busting through the locked gate with the patrol car. Those guys scrambled under the fence and were sprinting to the agr building in that clip.

And in the roof top clip those guys mentioned something about "we aren't sure we just got up here and got on the roof as fast as we could"

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And it was the state and local guys with body cams. No federal agents use body cams that I am aware of. Hell the FBI doesn't even record interviews neither video nor audio.

Again, state open records requests will yield more and faster results than any federal FOIA.

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We'll probably see some sort of new rule come out of this that bodycams are no longer allowed on a federal detail.

aggiehawg said:

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One other thing that both The Hubs and I caught from the bodycam of the state ESU guys getting up on the roof and finding Crooks' body. They clearly said there were casings on BOTH sides of the body and then counted them out loud intil they reached a total of eight.

Both sides of his body? He moved? Or was moved? Should have only been one ejection port on one side. That made no sense.

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I could understand if ejected shells rolled along the roof or something.

The 10-15% range is simple. The two sniper teams remaining weren't looking at their assigned areas.

Keep it simple for an example.
Sniper Team 1 - watches left field
Sniper Team 2 - watches center field
Sniper Team 3 - watches right field

You certainly don't want somebody to abandon watching right field. That's what happened.

And then the other two teams start focusing on that right field. That means they aren't watching their assigned locations. And they likely have a bad angle into right field.

techno-ag said:

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aggiehawg said:

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One other thing that both The Hubs and I caught from the bodycam of the state ESU guys getting up on the roof and finding Crooks' body. They clearly said there were casings on BOTH sides of the body and then counted them out loud intil they reached a total of eight.

Both sides of his body? He moved? Or was moved? Should have only been one ejection port on one side. That made no sense.

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I could understand if ejected shells rolled along the roof or something.

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[People on their phone hanging out in the A/C of that first floor building]

[brass hits metal roof]

"What's that noise?"

The whole "we aren't trained as counter snipers" is ridiculous.

You could have plopped the retired police chief from Beaver Falls on that roof in a lawn chain and problem solved.

That kid wasn't going to go up there and get in a gun fight. He looked for an obvious weakness and found it. And it happened to be the best place to take a shot from.

Quote:

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This was the cited justification them creating a whole new agency after 9-11 and lumping all these independent agencies under a common umbrella. 23-years out now we shocked that creation of a bloated new federal agency ostensibly didn't solve anything.

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Then you put an America-hating and Trump-hating piece of **** in charge of DHS, and they refuse to do anything other than lie to us.

One day people will realize that relying on Laura Loon just brings you down to her level of stupidity