But who really knows about the veracity any of this.

We get a little nugget of info at a time and try to assemble a complete picture.

Thats the issue with sticking to the 'facts' at this stage.

Theres really no way to tell what the facts are and we can only speculate.

aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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Crooks carried no identification with him, forcing authorities to use his DNA to confirm his identity in the early hours of Sunday morning US time.

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That is awfully fast for a DNA match without he or a relative being in a law enforcement data base. Now they may have used buchol swabs from the parents and used that to make such a quick ID.

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Given the report about parents seeing the shooting news and calling police, it makes sense.

They call, police come out, ask for DNA to verify.

Fenrir said:

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WolfCall said:

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More developments reported in the DailyMail.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13643655/Secret-Service-spotted-Thomas-Crooks-hunting-rangefinder-inside-Trump-rally-THREE-HOURS-shooting.html

Quote:

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Secret Service spotted Thomas Crooks at Trump rally THREE HOURS before shooting
By WILLS ROBINSON FOR DAILYMAIL.COM and PAUL FARRELL AND WILL POTTER FOR DAILYMAIL.COM
PUBLISHED: 10:23 EDT, 17 July 2024 | UPDATED: 11:21 EDT, 17 July 2024

Donald Trump's would-be assassin Thomas Matthew Crooks was at the former president's rally three hours before shooting him and sparked the suspicions of the Secret Service because he was carrying a rangefinder used by hunters to take long shots.

The 20-year-old gunman told his boss that he needed the day off from work on Saturday and gave colleagues a final chilling message: That he would be back on Sunday.

At around 3pm on Saturday, Crooks was spotted at the rally's security screening area and tried to pass through metal detectors with the rangefinder, which is used by shooters to measure distance, CNN reported.

The device, which looks like a small pair of binoculars, would not have prevented him getting into the rally in Butler, Pennsylvania, but did put him on law enforcement's radar.

The Secret Service watched him but lost track of Crooks when he left the secure area.

He is then believed to have collected the rifle he used to shoot Trump, kill a rally attendee and wound others, from his car, which also contained a bulletproof vest and two explosive devices.

Then, about 40 minutes before the shooting, Crooks was back on the Secret Service radar.

A photograph showing the sniper appearing to crawl on the ground while scouring the area was circulated to law enforcement as a suspicious sighting at 5:30pm.

Around 6:11pm, Crooks took up a position on a slanted roof and shot at Trump from a distance of around 165 yards, wounding him in the ear and killing retired fire chief Corey Comperatore.

Witnesses spotted Crooks crawling onto the roof of the American Glass Research building.

A Secret Service counter-sniper team codenamed 'Hawkeye' also spotted him looking at their position through the rangefinder.

The latest bombshell developments raised more questions about the massive security failures that led to the attempted assassination of the former president.

Law enforcement took a photo of Crooks an hour before the shooting, adding to mounting evidence that they knew of his presence well before he pulled the trigger.

Two more newly released images also show a bicycle owned by Crooks that was recovered close to the scene, and a remote detonator, which was recovered from his dead body alongside his cellphone.

It was later revealed that the detonator was connected to explosives found in his car.....

---

---

Meanwhile we have people here that are seemingly serious that they aren't sure this failure is sufficient cause to call for a change in the head of the SS.

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I haven't fully caught up on all of the threads but which people here are saying this? I'm still going with a massive and inexcusable amount of complacency and incompetence but no question to me that she should be fired and investigated.

aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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Crooks carried no identification with him, forcing authorities to use his DNA to confirm his identity in the early hours of Sunday morning US time.

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That is awfully fast for a DNA match without he or a relative being in a law enforcement data base. Now they may have used buchol swabs from the parents and used that to make such a quick ID.

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They also ran his finger prints, probably through the drivers license database. His DNA would have been taken on scene, and since they had contact with his parents pretty quickly, they got a sample from them and rushed the test.

The government can move quickly when it feels like it.

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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Read where he asked dad the borrow the rifle and said he wanted to go to the range.

Mom and dad are sitting on the couch, hear all this and immediately make the connect and call 911.

If you 20-year old kid nobody reports you missing on the same day.

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So if they know he's borrowed the rifle to go to the range, why are they calling police way ahead of the assassination to report him missing? Those don't add up…

Sure…
You can't make this F'n stuff up.


How the ATF identified the Trump rally shooter in 30 minutes

Quote:

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CNN

Within 30 minutes of the shooting at Donald Trump's Pennsylvania rally on Saturday, federal law enforcement used a byzantine paper records system to track down decade-old gun sales records to help identify the 20-year-old would-be assassin.

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Quote:

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Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives analysts at a facility in West Virginia search through millions of documents by hand every day to try to identify the provenance of guns used in crimes. Typically, the bureau takes around eight days to track a weapon, though for urgent traces that average falls to 24 hours.

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Secolobo said:

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Sure…
You can't make this F'n stuff up.


How the ATF identified the Trump rally shooter in 30 minutes

Quote:

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CNN

Within 30 minutes of the shooting at Donald Trump's Pennsylvania rally on Saturday, federal law enforcement used a byzantine paper records system to track down decade-old gun sales records to help identify the 20-year-old would-be assassin.

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Yes, next time you attempt an assassination, please carry ID. It makes the process that much easier for ATF.

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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But who really knows about the veracity any of this.

We get a little nugget of info at a time and try to assemble a complete picture.

Thats the issue with sticking to the 'facts' at this stage.

Theres really no way to tell what the facts are and we can only speculate.

---

And there in lies the problem.

People are trying to plug the gaps with whatever information they find, mostly on social media, but only if it fits their preconceived ideas of what the "truth" is.

In our instant gratification society, we want all the answers within an hour, but since that hasn't happened, it all goes off the rails.

Fenrir said:

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ttha_aggie_09 said:

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Holy crap - what a freaking lie:

Quote:

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Agents tracked the AR-15 style rifle the shooter used to a 2013 purchase from the now-closed dealer, sources familiar with investigators' findings told CNN. The revelation added to complications for the FBI, ATF and other agencies who were trying to identify the gunman after he was shot and killed by a US Secret Service sniper.

ATF agents worked with the gun's manufacturer, and manually searched through the closed gun shop's paper records, eventually tracing the rifle to the shooter's father. Investigators believe that the shooter's father may have been an avid firearms collector or bought and sold weapons, sources briefed on the matter said.

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Yeah, they did that in 30 minutes... notice how much they hate there is not a national gun registry in this article. It is riddled with "we need a national registry" jargon

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Tell me you have a gun registry without telling me you have a gun registry.

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When gun dealers go out of business, unless another FFL takes it over, the records go to the ATF.

Fenrir said:

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ttha_aggie_09 said:

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Holy crap - what a freaking lie:

Quote:

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Agents tracked the AR-15 style rifle the shooter used to a 2013 purchase from the now-closed dealer, sources familiar with investigators' findings told CNN. The revelation added to complications for the FBI, ATF and other agencies who were trying to identify the gunman after he was shot and killed by a US Secret Service sniper.

ATF agents worked with the gun's manufacturer, and manually searched through the closed gun shop's paper records, eventually tracing the rifle to the shooter's father. Investigators believe that the shooter's father may have been an avid firearms collector or bought and sold weapons, sources briefed on the matter said.

---

Yeah, they did that in 30 minutes... notice how much they hate there is not a national gun registry in this article. It is riddled with "we need a national registry" jargon

---

Tell me you have a gun registry without telling me you have a gun registry.

---

Gun stores are required to keep records. When a store closes, the ATF receives all the records.

So, why does the ATF not have all these scanned and entered into a database? Seems like they aren't real motivated to change the "antiquated process" of "sifting through" boxes.

ttha_aggie_09 said:

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BadMoonRisin said:

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Well, I suppose that explains why they called police shortly after the shooting. He must have noticed that his son was missing along with his rifle.

---

This brings up a few interesting points:

Why would you call the cops for a missing 20 year old? That's an adult...

Why would they notice the rifle is missing? Did they just have it laying in their closet on the floor and notice it missing?

Sure seems weird that you would not know where your son is and then immediately go "Oh, I better make sure he didn't take his rifle to go and kill someone". If the latter is the case, especially since they're known counselors or mental health professionals, that is an indication that they KNEW they're son was a potential problem. It also means they should have locked up their rifle in a safe or somewhere else with much more caution...

---

I believe the SS confirmed that he had borrowed the rifle the previous day to go practice shooting, so it seems like it was normal for him to have borrowed it sometimes, perhaps with his dad's permission.

It's a 45min-1 hour drive to the Butler rally site, and he was spotted on site 3 hours prior to the rally start and was still there an hour after it kicked off.

Its a 25 min drive to the shooting range. Toss a couple mags of lead -- an hour max? 25 mins back, thats just 2 hours or less.

If he asked to borrow the rifle and then was gone for 5-6 hours, you might start wondering where he went.

This is all pure speculation, but you get my drift?

Fenrir said:

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techno-ag said:

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Fenrir said:

---

ttha_aggie_09 said:

---

Holy crap - what a freaking lie:

Quote:

---

Agents tracked the AR-15 style rifle the shooter used to a 2013 purchase from the now-closed dealer, sources familiar with investigators' findings told CNN. The revelation added to complications for the FBI, ATF and other agencies who were trying to identify the gunman after he was shot and killed by a US Secret Service sniper.

ATF agents worked with the gun's manufacturer, and manually searched through the closed gun shop's paper records, eventually tracing the rifle to the shooter's father. Investigators believe that the shooter's father may have been an avid firearms collector or bought and sold weapons, sources briefed on the matter said.

---

Yeah, they did that in 30 minutes... notice how much they hate there is not a national gun registry in this article. It is riddled with "we need a national registry" jargon

---

Tell me you have a gun registry without telling me you have a gun registry.

---

Gun stores are required to keep records. When a store closes, the ATF receives all the records.

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I get that. Those records are obviously being digitized and searchable based on that response time. This is basically a loophole around the ban on using NICS to create a registry.

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Yeah I'm sure you're right. Everything is likely scanned into a database with OCR, then searched via keywords. The LaserFiche product used to be popular for medical and legal companies to do that back in the 1990s. I'm sure things are even better today.

They caught him with a range finder 3 hours before the shooting and did nothing.

They spotted him 30 minutes before the shooting and did nothing.

They took a literal picture of him and did nothing.

Members of the crowd were pointing at him and did nothing.

They left the most… https://t.co/W3NtyCYvYZ

— Greg Price (@greg_price11) July 17, 2024

Hornbeck said:

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So, why does the ATF not have all these scanned and entered into a database? Seems like they aren't real motivated to change the "antiquated process" of "sifting through" boxes.

---

See my previous comment for how they might be doing it electronically.

The ATF has always had access to sales records. When they perform a trace on a gun's serial number, they find out where and when it was sold through a licensed dealer.

What the D*mocrats want to do is track private sales, which is a back door registry because they would know who owns what guns. Right now if the first owner sells it privately, they don't know where the gun went.

Although one wasn't an innocent bystander, gross incompetency unnecessarily killed two on that day.
The fire chief and the would be assassin.
Even without securing the rooftops, the SS and police had multiple opportunities to at least question the kid, if not take him into custody for suspicious behavior.

There are too many obvious failures to count. No wonder we have so much speculation and conspiracy theories. The government is just stoking the flames by holding back information or giving obvious lies.

Edit: Misread

BadMoonRisin said:

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ttha_aggie_09 said:

---

BadMoonRisin said:

---

Well, I suppose that explains why they called police shortly after the shooting. He must have noticed that his son was missing along with his rifle.

---

This brings up a few interesting points:

Why would you call the cops for a missing 20 year old? That's an adult...

Why would they notice the rifle is missing? Did they just have it laying in their closet on the floor and notice it missing?

Sure seems weird that you would not know where your son is and then immediately go "Oh, I better make sure he didn't take his rifle to go and kill someone". If the latter is the case, especially since they're known counselors or mental health professionals, that is an indication that they KNEW they're son was a potential problem. It also means they should have locked up their rifle in a safe or somewhere else with much more caution...

---

I believe the SS confirmed that he had borrowed the rifle the previous day to go practice shooting, so it seems like it was normal for him to have borrowed it sometimes, perhaps with his dad's permission.

It's a 45min-1 hour drive to the Butler rally site, and he was spotted on site 3 hours prior to the rally start and was still there an hour after it kicked off.

Its a 25 min drive to the shooting range. Toss a couple mags of lead -- an hour max? 25 mins back, thats just 2 hours or less.

If he asked to borrow the rifle and then was gone for 5-6 hours, you might start wondering where he went.

This is all pure speculation, but you get my drift?

---

There are reports of him being spotted outside the AGR building with a rangefinder and then a backpack but no reports of him being seen with the rifle. I don't know how you would have been able to get it from your car to the building without being noticed, did he have the rifle disassembled and stuffed in the backpack?

Not sure if this belongs here.

What the heck is going in here?????? Multiple shooters??pic.twitter.com/fCaJcW8IH3

— TheQuartering (@TheQuartering) July 17, 2024

aginlakeway said:

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FTAG 2000 said:

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Trump arriving at a local hospital ER.

EXCLUSIVE: An ER patient's husband captures the moment an injured Trump arrives at a Pennsylvania hospital after surviving an assassination attempt.

The people in the waiting room then prayed for the former president.

Courtesy of Rick Foerster pic.twitter.com/0A8IBFNT84

— The Epoch Times (@EpochTimes) July 17, 2024

Everyone's favorite DEI SS agent there and still showing off her stellar weapon handling skills too.

---

58 second mark. Patient stands up out of wheelchair.

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Maybe the Church can Canonize him.

bonfarr said:

---

BadMoonRisin said:

---

ttha_aggie_09 said:

---

BadMoonRisin said:

---

Well, I suppose that explains why they called police shortly after the shooting. He must have noticed that his son was missing along with his rifle.

---

This brings up a few interesting points:

Why would you call the cops for a missing 20 year old? That's an adult...

Why would they notice the rifle is missing? Did they just have it laying in their closet on the floor and notice it missing?

Sure seems weird that you would not know where your son is and then immediately go "Oh, I better make sure he didn't take his rifle to go and kill someone". If the latter is the case, especially since they're known counselors or mental health professionals, that is an indication that they KNEW they're son was a potential problem. It also means they should have locked up their rifle in a safe or somewhere else with much more caution...

---

I believe the SS confirmed that he had borrowed the rifle the previous day to go practice shooting, so it seems like it was normal for him to have borrowed it sometimes, perhaps with his dad's permission.

It's a 45min-1 hour drive to the Butler rally site, and he was spotted on site 3 hours prior to the rally start and was still there an hour after it kicked off.

Its a 25 min drive to the shooting range. Toss a couple mags of lead -- an hour max? 25 mins back, thats just 2 hours or less.

If he asked to borrow the rifle and then was gone for 5-6 hours, you might start wondering where he went.

This is all pure speculation, but you get my drift?

---

There are reports of him being spotted outside the AGR building with a rangefinder and then a backpack but no reports of him being seen with the rifle. I don't know how you would have been able to get it from your car to the building without being noticed, did he have the rifle disassembled and stuffed in the backpack?

---

It's possible.

Several mass shooters have done that to get their rifle inside without anyone noticing what they were carrying.

bonfarr said:

---

BadMoonRisin said:

---

ttha_aggie_09 said:

---

BadMoonRisin said:

---

Well, I suppose that explains why they called police shortly after the shooting. He must have noticed that his son was missing along with his rifle.

---

This brings up a few interesting points:

Why would you call the cops for a missing 20 year old? That's an adult...

Why would they notice the rifle is missing? Did they just have it laying in their closet on the floor and notice it missing?

Sure seems weird that you would not know where your son is and then immediately go "Oh, I better make sure he didn't take his rifle to go and kill someone". If the latter is the case, especially since they're known counselors or mental health professionals, that is an indication that they KNEW they're son was a potential problem. It also means they should have locked up their rifle in a safe or somewhere else with much more caution...

---

I believe the SS confirmed that he had borrowed the rifle the previous day to go practice shooting, so it seems like it was normal for him to have borrowed it sometimes, perhaps with his dad's permission.

It's a 45min-1 hour drive to the Butler rally site, and he was spotted on site 3 hours prior to the rally start and was still there an hour after it kicked off.

Its a 25 min drive to the shooting range. Toss a couple mags of lead -- an hour max? 25 mins back, thats just 2 hours or less.

If he asked to borrow the rifle and then was gone for 5-6 hours, you might start wondering where he went.

This is all pure speculation, but you get my drift?

---

There are reports of him being spotted outside the AGR building with a rangefinder and then a backpack but no reports of him being seen with the rifle. I don't know how you would have been able to get it from your car to the building without being noticed, did he have the rifle disassembled and stuffed in the backpack?

---

There are claims this may belong to him

lb3 said:

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Not sure if this belongs here.

What the heck is going in here?????? Multiple shooters??pic.twitter.com/fCaJcW8IH3

— TheQuartering (@TheQuartering) July 17, 2024

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Just looks like a round hit the stands there. What am I missing?

Even if that guy thinks it was a second shooter, why would the shooter be firing behind his back, the opposite direction?

Crooks sprayed multiple rounds, hitting people on both sides of the stands, as well as the crane outside the stands. After the first shot, he just sprayed rounds erratically until he was hit.

lb3 said:

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Not sure if this belongs here.

What the heck is going in here?????? Multiple shooters??pic.twitter.com/fCaJcW8IH3

— TheQuartering (@TheQuartering) July 17, 2024

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I read that some vehicles were covered in hydraulic fluid and that could easily be spray from the ruptured hose that was shot.

A folding stock adapter for an AR is very common

ttha_aggie_09 said:

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A folding stock adapter for an AR is very common

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Yep, that is very possible as well.

BadMoonRisin said:

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President Trump's Butler PA rally, what I filmed from the front row immediately after the attempt on President Trump's life.
Wasn't ready to post this until today.pic.twitter.com/63rYNfC57a

— Dayanne Acioli (@Dayanneaci) July 17, 2024

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Why does the SS guy who has his arm around photographers go kneel back down around the stands at the end? Guess he was just getting out of the way so they can take pics? Seems a little odd.

Monkeypoxfighter said:

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I wonder where the checkpoint and metal detectors were that he had to avoid (or be ushered through, as has been suggested)?

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there were none.

He never entered the 'secure' area. He was outside that area, which is what the USSS is saying was local PD responsibility.

EDIT: My mistake, apparently he did with a range finder, but not the ladder and rifle. Then left the secure area.

At the 2:13 mark you see the hydraulic fluid spraying from the cherry picker