Shots fired at Trump [Keep it factual -- Staff]

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MarkTwain
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In reply to BCG Disciple • 5:46p, 8/8/24
BCG Disciple said:
aggiehawg said:
They didn't lie. They posted a guy over there. Just had to leave his position for an extended period of time when the target is on stage. If they wanted the building cover the entire time they should have specified!


Incorrect USSS never posted ANYONE with the USSS there they relied on the assumption the BCSO would. USSS didn't even attend the pre rally deployment meeting that they were supposed to have attended. So the BCSO posted people where they did. Butler PD was assigned to traffic. Beaver County SO placed two SS in the 2nd floor of the AGR building, the rest were scattered about. No US Secret Service were even on that side of the grounds, with a rooftop 138 yds from Trump's podium to his three o'clock
โ€œNever argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience" - Mark Twain
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Ulysses90
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7:01p, 8/8/24
AG
I went to a public event today to hear Congressman Cory Mills from FL 7 speak. He had a lot to say about July 13 and recommended the video at the link below by Benny Johnson. Mills and Eli Crane went to Butler PA with Benny to assess the area and the facts as they are known. The video is very informative and because they actually got to walk up and survey the scene from the roof of the AGR building on the spot where Crooks took the shot because they are members of Congress.

Crane is a former sniper team leader from SEAL Team 3 and Mills rand counter sniper operations with the 82nd Airborne Division and at JSOC. Mills said that he ran many counter sniper advance team surveys and nothing that the USSS did was according to standard practices.

It's not mentioned in the video but Mills said in his comments today that at the 12 o'clock position where Trump was facing, there is a Kubota dealership 400m away. They went and asked the owner if the USSS or local law enforcement had ever visited to ask to position CS over-watch on the roof. The owner of the Kubota dealership said that nobody from USSS or other law enforcement had visited his dealership before or since July 13.

Mills said that he and Eli Crane asked to be assigned to the Congressional Investigation Commission of the USSS and July 13 assassination attempt and neither one of them was selected despite the fact that they are the only two members of Congress with sniper and counter sniper experience.

Mills and Crane went and did their on-site survey with Benny Johnson to get as much information into the public's hands as fast as possible. The video has about 200k views in the past four days. One of the members of the commission sent him a message text three days ago saying, "Great job. Keep it up."

Mills asked his colleague how the Commission's investigation was progressing. The other Congressman texted back, "We haven't even had the first conference call yet for the commission members." They have already stated that the report will not be published until Dec 2. That seems to me to mean that there will only be a perfunctory investigation and that the actual report will not be written until the winner of the Presidential election is known and the party of the winner will write the report.



Side note: Mills' exclusion from the commission is probably because he is, by his own admission, not a party-line guy that goes along with the GOP leadership i.e. he is the sole member of the GOP to vote against the NDAA 2024 which is all the more unusual because he is a member of the HASC. He said today that he had a senior party member tell him that he had to vote for the bill because he is a member of the HASC and Mills told him that wasn't true because he already pressed the red button. The guy threatened to get a primary opponent to run against him and to ensure that he got no PAC money and he said that was fine because nobody in the Capitol was able to vote for him anyway.

I really like Cory Mills. I learned today that he donates his entire congressional salary to charities for veterans and sheltering battered women. He grew up in a situation much like JD Vance. Both of his parents were substance addicted and both spent time in prison. His father spent 32 years in prison and his mother spent 7. He said that after his parents divorced, his mother picked some real losers as boyfriends and on more that one occasion he got his ass beat trying to protect his mom from abuse. I hope he overcomes being unpopular among his peers in Congress because he is they type of representative that we need.


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Fishing Fools
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7:07p, 8/8/24
Thank you U90.
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MarkTwain
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6:12a, 8/9/24
This is a better more complete body cam


โ€œNever argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience" - Mark Twain
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Touchless
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In reply to Touchless • 10:44a, 8/9/24
AG
Touchless said:
Did y'all not read that full quote? It said it happened December 15? I don't think it's related to this event. Probably just a side note on his history.

Also, without sound in the video, hard to see the timing, but I'm pretty sure shots went out shortly after that video started. The longer video of the guy in front of the building can probably be matched up with the body camera to see how long it was from the time the cop fell down after seeing him to first shots fired.
From the time the officer drops to the ground after peeking on the roof to the time the first shots are fired is approximately 40 seconds.

At 42 seconds, you see the offer seem to react in the video from the tweet below which basically is the quick confirmation of it.


Also, the 15 second mark in the video in the tweet matches up with the 4:29 mark in the video below. The first shot is at 4:55. So 26 seconds + the 15 seconds is obviously 41 seconds, less the first few seconds in the tweet video when the officer is trying to climb up.

All that to say, if Crooks did turn around and point the gun at the officer, he basically had 35ish seconds to reposition himself, aim and pull the trigger. That's significantly longer than the 10 or so seconds I believe was first reported. If the officer that was trying to climb the roof is the one that said 10 seconds, I can understand why he may think that. Someone's concept of time can be significantly skewed in an event like that.

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JFABNRGR
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In reply to Touchless • 11:44a, 8/9/24
AG
Touchless said:
Touchless said:
Did y'all not read that full quote? It said it happened December 15? I don't think it's related to this event. Probably just a side note on his history.

Also, without sound in the video, hard to see the timing, but I'm pretty sure shots went out shortly after that video started. The longer video of the guy in front of the building can probably be matched up with the body camera to see how long it was from the time the cop fell down after seeing him to first shots fired.
From the time the officer drops to the ground after peeking on the roof to the time the first shots are fired is approximately 40 seconds.

At 42 seconds, you see the offer seem to react in the video from the tweet below which basically is the quick confirmation of it.


Also, the 15 second mark in the video in the tweet matches up with the 4:29 mark in the video below. The first shot is at 4:55. So 26 seconds + the 15 seconds is obviously 41 seconds, less the first few seconds in the tweet video when the officer is trying to climb up.

All that to say, if Crooks did turn around and point the gun at the officer, he basically had 35ish seconds to reposition himself, aim and pull the trigger. That's significantly longer than the 10 or so seconds I believe was first reported. If the officer that was trying to climb the roof is the one that said 10 seconds, I can understand why he may think that. Someone's concept of time can be significantly skewed in an event like that.



The :40ish seconds also lines up with video of sniper team two closest to shooter aimed in that direction for that duration.

I believe there is video of sniper team one aimed in that direction for at least :10 but it could be longer just have not seen visual evidence.

Trump should have been removed regardless if its :10 or :40. That was enough time for the ship to move him out of the line of fire.
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Stat Monitor Repairman
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1:29p, 8/9/24
There'll never be a passable explanation for why Trump wasn't removed from the stage. Thats the real issue now. There's nothing anyone can say at this point to escape that fact. There's no massaging the timeline with simultaneous live video from 100s of angles.
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J. Walter Weatherman
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In reply to Stat Monitor Repairman • 1:47p, 8/9/24
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
There'll never be a passable explanation for why Trump wasn't removed from the stage. Thats the real issue now. There's nothing anyone can say at this point to escape that fact. There's no massaging the timeline with simultaneous live video from 100s of angles.


Secret service has said they were not notified of the shooter and that the reports from the local police did not make it to their team at the stage, so that would be a pretty plausible explanation for why he wasn't removed. Has any of the body cam footage shown differently?
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El Gallo Blanco
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In reply to J. Walter Weatherman • 1:53p, 8/9/24
J. Walter Weatherman said:
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
There'll never be a passable explanation for why Trump wasn't removed from the stage. Thats the real issue now. There's nothing anyone can say at this point to escape that fact. There's no massaging the timeline with simultaneous live video from 100s of angles.


Secret service has said they were not notified of the shooter and that the reports from the local police did not make it to their team at the stage, so that would be a pretty plausible explanation for why he wasn't removed. Has any of the body cam footage shown differently?
I don't know man...SS members in front of the stage were acting like they received word that sh** could potentially be going down very soon (frantically moving around etc) not long before the shots rang out. Their body language did not look "typical" at all.

AT BEST...absolute jaw dropping incompetence...to a negligent degree. 3rd world-ish.
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Stat Monitor Repairman
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In reply to J. Walter Weatherman • 1:53p, 8/9/24
J. Walter Weatherman said:
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
There'll never be a passable explanation for why Trump wasn't removed from the stage. Thats the real issue now. There's nothing anyone can say at this point to escape that fact. There's no massaging the timeline with simultaneous live video from 100s of angles.
Secret service has said they were not notified of the shooter and that the reports from the local police did not make it to their team at the stage, so that would be a pretty plausible explanation for why he wasn't removed. Has any of the body cam footage shown differently?
These people do this for a living. Keeping this one guy from getting shot was central to their purpose. There's really no plausible explanation.
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Catag94
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In reply to Stat Monitor Repairman • 1:54p, 8/9/24
AG
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
There'll never be a passable explanation for why Trump wasn't removed from the stage. Thats the real issue now. There's nothing anyone can say at this point to escape that fact. There's no massaging the timeline with simultaneous live video from 100s of angles.
Secret service has said they were not notified of the shooter and that the reports from the local police did not make it to their team at the stage, so that would be a pretty plausible explanation for why he wasn't removed. Has any of the body cam footage shown differently?
These people do this for a living. Keeping this one guy from getting shot was central to their purpose. There's really no plausible explanation.


There is always complacency along with poor leadership.
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J. Walter Weatherman
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In reply to Stat Monitor Repairman • 1:56p, 8/9/24
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
There'll never be a passable explanation for why Trump wasn't removed from the stage. Thats the real issue now. There's nothing anyone can say at this point to escape that fact. There's no massaging the timeline with simultaneous live video from 100s of angles.
Secret service has said they were not notified of the shooter and that the reports from the local police did not make it to their team at the stage, so that would be a pretty plausible explanation for why he wasn't removed. Has any of the body cam footage shown differently?
These people do this for a living. Keeping this one guy from getting shot was central to their purpose. There's really no plausible explanation.


That doesn't answer the question. I agree the communication about someone on the roof should have gotten to them, but so far there's no evidence it did. The simple explanation is that they weren't notified, according to their own testimony, and no evidence has come out stating anything different.
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J. Walter Weatherman
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In reply to El Gallo Blanco • 1:57p, 8/9/24
El Gallo Blanco said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
There'll never be a passable explanation for why Trump wasn't removed from the stage. Thats the real issue now. There's nothing anyone can say at this point to escape that fact. There's no massaging the timeline with simultaneous live video from 100s of angles.


Secret service has said they were not notified of the shooter and that the reports from the local police did not make it to their team at the stage, so that would be a pretty plausible explanation for why he wasn't removed. Has any of the body cam footage shown differently?
I don't know man...SS members in front of the stage were acting like they received word that sh** could potentially be going down very soon (frantically moving around etc) not long before the shots rang out. Their body language did not look "typical" at all.

AT BEST...absolute jaw dropping incompetence...to a negligent degree. 3rd world-ish.


Which video is this referencing? I know there was one showing staffers moving media out of the way but not sure which one you're talking about.
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BadMoonRisin
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In reply to Stat Monitor Repairman • 2:06p, 8/9/24
AG
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
That's what I'm saying. Prior to 2024, you accidentally shoot yourself in the police station it's game over on your career. But this guy persevered.
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El Gallo Blanco
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In reply to J. Walter Weatherman • 2:07p, 8/9/24
J. Walter Weatherman said:
El Gallo Blanco said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
There'll never be a passable explanation for why Trump wasn't removed from the stage. Thats the real issue now. There's nothing anyone can say at this point to escape that fact. There's no massaging the timeline with simultaneous live video from 100s of angles.


Secret service has said they were not notified of the shooter and that the reports from the local police did not make it to their team at the stage, so that would be a pretty plausible explanation for why he wasn't removed. Has any of the body cam footage shown differently?
I don't know man...SS members in front of the stage were acting like they received word that sh** could potentially be going down very soon (frantically moving around etc) not long before the shots rang out. Their body language did not look "typical" at all.

AT BEST...absolute jaw dropping incompetence...to a negligent degree. 3rd world-ish.


Which video is this referencing? I know there was one showing staffers moving media out of the way but not sure which one you're talking about.
I honestly can't remember, it was pages ago...maybe many pages. Is it possible they were just responding to media people crawling around? Maybe, but my eyes sure felt like they were not deceiving me and their body language seemed very urgent, almost as if they were panicking and just learned of a threat over the earphones.

Either way, there will never be any real evidence or "facts" presented. If questioned, agents or their bosses would just lie or stonewall anyways....like they always do. So all we can do is speculate based on our eyes, ears and assumptions.
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Stat Monitor Repairman
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2:15p, 8/9/24
One of the first things pointed out on day-1 was the unexplained scurrying around by LE and others on the premises right before the shots rang out. Seems like that was established as fact early on. Not sure why that observable fact is now in dispute.
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J. Walter Weatherman
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In reply to El Gallo Blanco • 2:17p, 8/9/24
El Gallo Blanco said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
El Gallo Blanco said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
There'll never be a passable explanation for why Trump wasn't removed from the stage. Thats the real issue now. There's nothing anyone can say at this point to escape that fact. There's no massaging the timeline with simultaneous live video from 100s of angles.


Secret service has said they were not notified of the shooter and that the reports from the local police did not make it to their team at the stage, so that would be a pretty plausible explanation for why he wasn't removed. Has any of the body cam footage shown differently?
I don't know man...SS members in front of the stage were acting like they received word that sh** could potentially be going down very soon (frantically moving around etc) not long before the shots rang out. Their body language did not look "typical" at all.

AT BEST...absolute jaw dropping incompetence...to a negligent degree. 3rd world-ish.


Which video is this referencing? I know there was one showing staffers moving media out of the way but not sure which one you're talking about.
I honestly can't remember, it was pages ago...maybe many pages. Is it possible they were just responding to media people crawling around? Maybe, but my eyes sure felt like they were not deceiving me and their body language seemed very urgent, almost as if they were panicking and just learned of a threat over the earphones.

Either way, there will never be any real evidence or "facts" presented. If questioned, agents or their bosses would just lie or stonewall anyways....like they always do. So all we can do is speculate based on our eyes, ears and assumptions.


I remember there was one a few pages back where someone in a suit was moving people from behind the stage in kind of a strangely aggressive way that looked weird, but then a follow up noted that it was a Trump campaign staffer just moving photographers to a different spot. I don't know that I've seen one showing SS acting panicked before the shots were fired.

And there have been plenty of facts presented. We have an entire timeline of the day, those facts and testimony just continue to point towards lazy incompetence by the USSS being taken advantage of by a crazy person (so far), so that's not enough for people who think there's more to it.
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AgPrognosticator
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In reply to Stat Monitor Repairman • 2:20p, 8/9/24
AG
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
One of the first things pointed out on day-1 was the unexplained scurrying around by LE and others on the premises right before the shots rang out. Seems like that was established as fact early on. Not sure why that observable fact is now in dispute.
Another thing that was reported on day 1, but totally buried since:

There were three USSS sniper teams scheduled to attend the rally. The initial reports on day 1 were that sniper team #3 (supposedly scheduled to be on the AGR roof) did not show up for work that day for an unknown reason.

The story then melded into this:

A third sniper team comprised of local law enforcement was stationed INSIDE the AGR building and the sniper was instructed to leave his post during a 5 minute period in which the shooting took place.

I have not seen anyone analyze the following:

1) why didn't the third USSS sniper team show up to work?
2) why was the local LEO sniper asked to leave his post?
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Stat Monitor Repairman
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In reply to J. Walter Weatherman • 2:29p, 8/9/24
J. Walter Weatherman said:
El Gallo Blanco said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
El Gallo Blanco said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
There'll never be a passable explanation for why Trump wasn't removed from the stage. Thats the real issue now. There's nothing anyone can say at this point to escape that fact. There's no massaging the timeline with simultaneous live video from 100s of angles.


Secret service has said they were not notified of the shooter and that the reports from the local police did not make it to their team at the stage, so that would be a pretty plausible explanation for why he wasn't removed. Has any of the body cam footage shown differently?
I don't know man...SS members in front of the stage were acting like they received word that sh** could potentially be going down very soon (frantically moving around etc) not long before the shots rang out. Their body language did not look "typical" at all.

AT BEST...absolute jaw dropping incompetence...to a negligent degree. 3rd world-ish.


Which video is this referencing? I know there was one showing staffers moving media out of the way but not sure which one you're talking about.
I honestly can't remember, it was pages ago...maybe many pages. Is it possible they were just responding to media people crawling around? Maybe, but my eyes sure felt like they were not deceiving me and their body language seemed very urgent, almost as if they were panicking and just learned of a threat over the earphones.

Either way, there will never be any real evidence or "facts" presented. If questioned, agents or their bosses would just lie or stonewall anyways....like they always do. So all we can do is speculate based on our eyes, ears and assumptions.


I remember there was one a few pages back where someone in a suit was moving people from behind the stage in kind of a strangely aggressive way that looked weird, but then a follow up noted that it was a Trump campaign staffer just moving photographers to a different spot. I don't know that I've seen one showing SS acting panicked before the shots were fired.

And there have been plenty of facts presented. We have an entire timeline of the day, those facts and testimony just continue to point towards lazy incompetence by the USSS being taken advantage of by a crazy person (so far), so that's not enough for people who think there's more to it.
Also one of the very first videos we saw showed cops and other people in the background on the premises scurrying around like they had a sense something was about to go down. This was at the same time the guy is on video yelling and pointing that theres somebody on the roof. Guy taking the video starts cussing saying wtf then shots ring out. You look at the aggregate of all videos and it's clear people had a sense something was about to pop off.
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Science Denier
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In reply to JFABNRGR • 2:31p, 8/9/24
AG
JFABNRGR said:
Touchless said:
Touchless said:
Did y'all not read that full quote? It said it happened December 15? I don't think it's related to this event. Probably just a side note on his history.

Also, without sound in the video, hard to see the timing, but I'm pretty sure shots went out shortly after that video started. The longer video of the guy in front of the building can probably be matched up with the body camera to see how long it was from the time the cop fell down after seeing him to first shots fired.
From the time the officer drops to the ground after peeking on the roof to the time the first shots are fired is approximately 40 seconds.

At 42 seconds, you see the offer seem to react in the video from the tweet below which basically is the quick confirmation of it.


Also, the 15 second mark in the video in the tweet matches up with the 4:29 mark in the video below. The first shot is at 4:55. So 26 seconds + the 15 seconds is obviously 41 seconds, less the first few seconds in the tweet video when the officer is trying to climb up.

All that to say, if Crooks did turn around and point the gun at the officer, he basically had 35ish seconds to reposition himself, aim and pull the trigger. That's significantly longer than the 10 or so seconds I believe was first reported. If the officer that was trying to climb the roof is the one that said 10 seconds, I can understand why he may think that. Someone's concept of time can be significantly skewed in an event like that.



The :40ish seconds also lines up with video of sniper team two closest to shooter aimed in that direction for that duration.

I believe there is video of sniper team one aimed in that direction for at least :10 but it could be longer just have not seen visual evidence.

Trump should have been removed regardless if its :10 or :40. That was enough time for the ship to move him out of the line of fire.


Earlier video shows cops seeing him on the roof and running towards him with minutes, not seconds before he shot. One cop had time to run, get in his car, load his gun. Get back out and continue running.

That's when Trump should have been removed.
LOL OLD
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twk
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In reply to Stat Monitor Repairman • 2:33p, 8/9/24
AG
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
El Gallo Blanco said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
El Gallo Blanco said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
There'll never be a passable explanation for why Trump wasn't removed from the stage. Thats the real issue now. There's nothing anyone can say at this point to escape that fact. There's no massaging the timeline with simultaneous live video from 100s of angles.


Secret service has said they were not notified of the shooter and that the reports from the local police did not make it to their team at the stage, so that would be a pretty plausible explanation for why he wasn't removed. Has any of the body cam footage shown differently?
I don't know man...SS members in front of the stage were acting like they received word that sh** could potentially be going down very soon (frantically moving around etc) not long before the shots rang out. Their body language did not look "typical" at all.

AT BEST...absolute jaw dropping incompetence...to a negligent degree. 3rd world-ish.


Which video is this referencing? I know there was one showing staffers moving media out of the way but not sure which one you're talking about.
I honestly can't remember, it was pages ago...maybe many pages. Is it possible they were just responding to media people crawling around? Maybe, but my eyes sure felt like they were not deceiving me and their body language seemed very urgent, almost as if they were panicking and just learned of a threat over the earphones.

Either way, there will never be any real evidence or "facts" presented. If questioned, agents or their bosses would just lie or stonewall anyways....like they always do. So all we can do is speculate based on our eyes, ears and assumptions.


I remember there was one a few pages back where someone in a suit was moving people from behind the stage in kind of a strangely aggressive way that looked weird, but then a follow up noted that it was a Trump campaign staffer just moving photographers to a different spot. I don't know that I've seen one showing SS acting panicked before the shots were fired.

And there have been plenty of facts presented. We have an entire timeline of the day, those facts and testimony just continue to point towards lazy incompetence by the USSS being taken advantage of by a crazy person (so far), so that's not enough for people who think there's more to it.
Also one of the very first videos we saw showed cops and other people in the background on the premises scurrying around like they had a sense something was about to go down. This was at the same time the guy is on video yelling and pointing that theres somebody on the roof. Guy taking the video starts cussing saying wtf then shots ring out. You look at the aggregate of all videos and it's clear people had a sense something was about to pop off.
Lots of chatter on the local radio, but the locals and the Secret Service were not on the same channel. Communications was a huge failing, probably at the top of the list right up there with poor advance work. Understaffing is a close third.
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J. Walter Weatherman
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In reply to Stat Monitor Repairman • 2:35p, 8/9/24
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
El Gallo Blanco said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
El Gallo Blanco said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
There'll never be a passable explanation for why Trump wasn't removed from the stage. Thats the real issue now. There's nothing anyone can say at this point to escape that fact. There's no massaging the timeline with simultaneous live video from 100s of angles.


Secret service has said they were not notified of the shooter and that the reports from the local police did not make it to their team at the stage, so that would be a pretty plausible explanation for why he wasn't removed. Has any of the body cam footage shown differently?
I don't know man...SS members in front of the stage were acting like they received word that sh** could potentially be going down very soon (frantically moving around etc) not long before the shots rang out. Their body language did not look "typical" at all.

AT BEST...absolute jaw dropping incompetence...to a negligent degree. 3rd world-ish.


Which video is this referencing? I know there was one showing staffers moving media out of the way but not sure which one you're talking about.
I honestly can't remember, it was pages ago...maybe many pages. Is it possible they were just responding to media people crawling around? Maybe, but my eyes sure felt like they were not deceiving me and their body language seemed very urgent, almost as if they were panicking and just learned of a threat over the earphones.

Either way, there will never be any real evidence or "facts" presented. If questioned, agents or their bosses would just lie or stonewall anyways....like they always do. So all we can do is speculate based on our eyes, ears and assumptions.


I remember there was one a few pages back where someone in a suit was moving people from behind the stage in kind of a strangely aggressive way that looked weird, but then a follow up noted that it was a Trump campaign staffer just moving photographers to a different spot. I don't know that I've seen one showing SS acting panicked before the shots were fired.

And there have been plenty of facts presented. We have an entire timeline of the day, those facts and testimony just continue to point towards lazy incompetence by the USSS being taken advantage of by a crazy person (so far), so that's not enough for people who think there's more to it.
Also one of the very first videos we saw showed cops and other people in the background on the premises scurrying around like they had a sense something was about to go down. This was at the same time the guy is on video yelling and pointing that theres somebody on the roof. Guy taking the video starts cussing saying wtf then shots ring out. You look at the aggregate of all videos and it's clear people had a sense something was about to pop off.


None of this was around the stage right? The information should have made it to the SS (Rowe said as much in his testimony) but so far there's no evidence that anyone anywhere close to the stage knew that there was a shooter on the roof until he started shooting.

Whether they should have known or not isn't really relevant to the hypothesis that keeps getting suggested that they did know and then didn't do anything on purpose, a point that there's no evidence of.
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Texmid
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2:36p, 8/9/24
AG
We have a vast majority of the story. The USSS had become complacent and failed miserably in their objective to protect Trump. My guess is that this is not the first time there were security holes. This was just the first time all of the failures occurred at exactly the right moments so that a 20 year-old loser could squeeze off several rounds.

The locals had that roof under surveillance. Until, of course, one of the counter-sniper guys went looking for Crooks on the ground. He couldn't find Crooks because Crooks was already on the roof behind where he was stationed and was making his way towards the roof where he died. When the local cop tried to go back to his post he discovered he was locked out of the AGR building. He called his partner and his partner came down to let him back in at the same time Crooks was spotted by the people on the ground. Once the people on the ground started yelling about Crooks and saying he has a gun, the local cop was hoisted up and got a look at him. I've not heard any audio from the seconds after that cop hits the ground, but, I would guess he was using his radio to alert everyone else about what he saw as he ran off to safety. By then it was too late and Crooks took aim and fired. If any of these things happen in a different sequence Crooks never gets off any shots.

Of course, if the USSS had done proper site prep, none of this would have happened. But, here we are. My only hope is that behind the scenes the higher-ups in the USSS are checking procedures and making sure nothing like this happens again. Between this utter failure and the current vegetable-in-chief remaining in office, the United States of America looks incredibly weak. I'm sure our enemies have taken note.
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twk
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In reply to Texmid • 2:48p, 8/9/24
AG
Texmid said:
We have a vast majority of the story. The USSS had become complacent and failed miserably in their objective to protect Trump. My guess is that this is not the first time there were security holes. This was just the first time all of the failures occurred at exactly the right moments so that a 20 year-old loser could squeeze off several rounds.

The locals had that roof under surveillance. Until, of course, one of the counter-sniper guys went looking for Crooks on the ground. He couldn't find Crooks because Crooks was already on the roof behind where he was stationed and was making his way towards the roof where he died. When the local cop tried to go back to his post he discovered he was locked out of the AGR building. He called his partner and his partner came down to let him back in at the same time Crooks was spotted by the people on the ground. Once the people on the ground started yelling about Crooks and saying he has a gun, the local cop was hoisted up and got a look at him. I've not heard any audio from the seconds after that cop hits the ground, but, I would guess he was using his radio to alert everyone else about what he saw as he ran off to safety. By then it was too late and Crooks took aim and fired. If any of these things happen in a different sequence Crooks never gets off any shots.

Of course, if the USSS had done proper site prep, none of this would have happened. But, here we are. My only hope is that behind the scenes the higher-ups in the USSS are checking procedures and making sure nothing like this happens again. Between this utter failure and the current vegetable-in-chief remaining in office, the United States of America looks incredibly weak. I'm sure our enemies have taken note.
This is one of the problems. The sniper team that was on the second floor was not told that their job was to control that roof; instead, they were scanning the crowd for threats, which is why one of them left the post to go look for Crooks. If the Secret Service had wanted them to be responsible for the roof of the AGR building, they shouldn't have been posted inside, because they could only cover a small part of it from there. Now, as it turns out, if they had stayed in place, they would have been in position to cover the part of the roof where the sniper set up, but that was not the assignment they were given, which all goes back to poor advance planning by the young agent assigned that task.
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Texmid
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In reply to twk • 2:54p, 8/9/24
AG
twk said:
Texmid said:
We have a vast majority of the story. The USSS had become complacent and failed miserably in their objective to protect Trump. My guess is that this is not the first time there were security holes. This was just the first time all of the failures occurred at exactly the right moments so that a 20 year-old loser could squeeze off several rounds.

The locals had that roof under surveillance. Until, of course, one of the counter-sniper guys went looking for Crooks on the ground. He couldn't find Crooks because Crooks was already on the roof behind where he was stationed and was making his way towards the roof where he died. When the local cop tried to go back to his post he discovered he was locked out of the AGR building. He called his partner and his partner came down to let him back in at the same time Crooks was spotted by the people on the ground. Once the people on the ground started yelling about Crooks and saying he has a gun, the local cop was hoisted up and got a look at him. I've not heard any audio from the seconds after that cop hits the ground, but, I would guess he was using his radio to alert everyone else about what he saw as he ran off to safety. By then it was too late and Crooks took aim and fired. If any of these things happen in a different sequence Crooks never gets off any shots.

Of course, if the USSS had done proper site prep, none of this would have happened. But, here we are. My only hope is that behind the scenes the higher-ups in the USSS are checking procedures and making sure nothing like this happens again. Between this utter failure and the current vegetable-in-chief remaining in office, the United States of America looks incredibly weak. I'm sure our enemies have taken note.
This is one of the problems. The sniper team that was on the second floor was not told that their job was to control that roof; instead, they were scanning the crowd for threats, which is why one of them left the post to go look for Crooks. If the Secret Service had wanted them to be responsible for the roof of the AGR building, they shouldn't have been posted inside, because they could only cover a small part of it from there. Now, as it turns out, if they had stayed in place, they would have been in position to cover the part of the roof where the sniper set up, but that was not the assignment they were given, which all goes back to poor advance planning by the young agent assigned that task.
Exactly, I blame the USSS for the entirety of this mess. Everything that happened is a direct result of their initial failures.
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J. Walter Weatherman
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In reply to Texmid • 2:59p, 8/9/24
Texmid said:
We have a vast majority of the story. The USSS had become complacent and failed miserably in their objective to protect Trump. My guess is that this is not the first time there were security holes. This was just the first time all of the failures occurred at exactly the right moments so that a 20 year-old loser could squeeze off several rounds.

The locals had that roof under surveillance. Until, of course, one of the counter-sniper guys went looking for Crooks on the ground. He couldn't find Crooks because Crooks was already on the roof behind where he was stationed and was making his way towards the roof where he died. When the local cop tried to go back to his post he discovered he was locked out of the AGR building. He called his partner and his partner came down to let him back in at the same time Crooks was spotted by the people on the ground. Once the people on the ground started yelling about Crooks and saying he has a gun, the local cop was hoisted up and got a look at him. I've not heard any audio from the seconds after that cop hits the ground, but, I would guess he was using his radio to alert everyone else about what he saw as he ran off to safety. By then it was too late and Crooks took aim and fired. If any of these things happen in a different sequence Crooks never gets off any shots.

Of course, if the USSS had done proper site prep, none of this would have happened. But, here we are. My only hope is that behind the scenes the higher-ups in the USSS are checking procedures and making sure nothing like this happens again. Between this utter failure and the current vegetable-in-chief remaining in office, the United States of America looks incredibly weak. I'm sure our enemies have taken note.


Great post, especially the bolded. Best thing to come out of this will hopefully be a lot of operational changes from a group that had clearly gotten lazy and complacent.
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Stat Monitor Repairman
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2:59p, 8/9/24
US Secret Service founded in 1865.
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Catag94
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In reply to twk • 3:03p, 8/9/24
AG
twk said:
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
El Gallo Blanco said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
El Gallo Blanco said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
There'll never be a passable explanation for why Trump wasn't removed from the stage. Thats the real issue now. There's nothing anyone can say at this point to escape that fact. There's no massaging the timeline with simultaneous live video from 100s of angles.


Secret service has said they were not notified of the shooter and that the reports from the local police did not make it to their team at the stage, so that would be a pretty plausible explanation for why he wasn't removed. Has any of the body cam footage shown differently?
I don't know man...SS members in front of the stage were acting like they received word that sh** could potentially be going down very soon (frantically moving around etc) not long before the shots rang out. Their body language did not look "typical" at all.

AT BEST...absolute jaw dropping incompetence...to a negligent degree. 3rd world-ish.


Which video is this referencing? I know there was one showing staffers moving media out of the way but not sure which one you're talking about.
I honestly can't remember, it was pages ago...maybe many pages. Is it possible they were just responding to media people crawling around? Maybe, but my eyes sure felt like they were not deceiving me and their body language seemed very urgent, almost as if they were panicking and just learned of a threat over the earphones.

Either way, there will never be any real evidence or "facts" presented. If questioned, agents or their bosses would just lie or stonewall anyways....like they always do. So all we can do is speculate based on our eyes, ears and assumptions.


I remember there was one a few pages back where someone in a suit was moving people from behind the stage in kind of a strangely aggressive way that looked weird, but then a follow up noted that it was a Trump campaign staffer just moving photographers to a different spot. I don't know that I've seen one showing SS acting panicked before the shots were fired.

And there have been plenty of facts presented. We have an entire timeline of the day, those facts and testimony just continue to point towards lazy incompetence by the USSS being taken advantage of by a crazy person (so far), so that's not enough for people who think there's more to it.
Also one of the very first videos we saw showed cops and other people in the background on the premises scurrying around like they had a sense something was about to go down. This was at the same time the guy is on video yelling and pointing that theres somebody on the roof. Guy taking the video starts cussing saying wtf then shots ring out. You look at the aggregate of all videos and it's clear people had a sense something was about to pop off.
Lots of chatter on the local radio, but the locals and the Secret Service were not on the same channel. Communications was a huge failing, probably at the top of the list right up there with poor advance work. Understaffing is a close third.



A colossal failure in communication.
Even a common police scanner would have been a better plan.
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Stat Monitor Repairman
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3:04p, 8/9/24
Too lazy to go back and find a post the day-of which predicted this would ultimately be attributed to lack of communication and that people in charge weren't on the same radio channel with the rest of the team.

26-days later and thats exactly where we at.
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Science Denier
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In reply to twk • 3:11p, 8/9/24
AG
twk said:
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
El Gallo Blanco said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
El Gallo Blanco said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
There'll never be a passable explanation for why Trump wasn't removed from the stage. Thats the real issue now. There's nothing anyone can say at this point to escape that fact. There's no massaging the timeline with simultaneous live video from 100s of angles.


Secret service has said they were not notified of the shooter and that the reports from the local police did not make it to their team at the stage, so that would be a pretty plausible explanation for why he wasn't removed. Has any of the body cam footage shown differently?
I don't know man...SS members in front of the stage were acting like they received word that sh** could potentially be going down very soon (frantically moving around etc) not long before the shots rang out. Their body language did not look "typical" at all.

AT BEST...absolute jaw dropping incompetence...to a negligent degree. 3rd world-ish.


Which video is this referencing? I know there was one showing staffers moving media out of the way but not sure which one you're talking about.
I honestly can't remember, it was pages ago...maybe many pages. Is it possible they were just responding to media people crawling around? Maybe, but my eyes sure felt like they were not deceiving me and their body language seemed very urgent, almost as if they were panicking and just learned of a threat over the earphones.

Either way, there will never be any real evidence or "facts" presented. If questioned, agents or their bosses would just lie or stonewall anyways....like they always do. So all we can do is speculate based on our eyes, ears and assumptions.


I remember there was one a few pages back where someone in a suit was moving people from behind the stage in kind of a strangely aggressive way that looked weird, but then a follow up noted that it was a Trump campaign staffer just moving photographers to a different spot. I don't know that I've seen one showing SS acting panicked before the shots were fired.

And there have been plenty of facts presented. We have an entire timeline of the day, those facts and testimony just continue to point towards lazy incompetence by the USSS being taken advantage of by a crazy person (so far), so that's not enough for people who think there's more to it.
Also one of the very first videos we saw showed cops and other people in the background on the premises scurrying around like they had a sense something was about to go down. This was at the same time the guy is on video yelling and pointing that theres somebody on the roof. Guy taking the video starts cussing saying wtf then shots ring out. You look at the aggregate of all videos and it's clear people had a sense something was about to pop off.
Lots of chatter on the local radio, but the locals and the Secret Service were not on the same channel. Communications was a huge failing, probably at the top of the list right up there with poor advance work. Understaffing is a close third.


Even though they intentionally didn't man the roof, and even though they intentionally decided not to communicate with local police, all the running and screaming (for over 4 min) by the cops just 130 yards away would have been seen by the SS snipers. The cop ran a long way. Not just esnnthru the part blocked by trees.
LOL OLD
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DannyDuberstein
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3:56p, 8/9/24
AG
Given the SS didn't attend the morning briefing, any gaps they try to put on local LE is a ridiculous buck-passing. Same on communication. A clear threat is identified several minutes beforehand, and you don't have a process for them to get that to you? All on SS.

Egregious level of screwups to the point where one has to ask bigger questions
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Decay
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In reply to Stat Monitor Repairman • 4:53p, 8/9/24
AG
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
US Secret Service founded in 1865.
But personal protection is newer right?

Not that they shouldn't be competent... they've been doing it for a while. But I don't think they've been guarding the president for 150+ years.
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aggiehawg
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In reply to Decay • 4:57p, 8/9/24
AG
Decay said:
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
US Secret Service founded in 1865.
But personal protection is newer right?

Not that they shouldn't be competent... they've been doing it for a while. But I don't think they've been guarding the president for 150+ years.
After McKinley assassination I believe. Lincoln put them in Treasury to eliminate counterfeiting problems after the Civil War.
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El Gallo Blanco
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In reply to J. Walter Weatherman • 5:06p, 8/9/24
J. Walter Weatherman said:
El Gallo Blanco said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
El Gallo Blanco said:
J. Walter Weatherman said:
Stat Monitor Repairman said:
There'll never be a passable explanation for why Trump wasn't removed from the stage. Thats the real issue now. There's nothing anyone can say at this point to escape that fact. There's no massaging the timeline with simultaneous live video from 100s of angles.


Secret service has said they were not notified of the shooter and that the reports from the local police did not make it to their team at the stage, so that would be a pretty plausible explanation for why he wasn't removed. Has any of the body cam footage shown differently?
I don't know man...SS members in front of the stage were acting like they received word that sh** could potentially be going down very soon (frantically moving around etc) not long before the shots rang out. Their body language did not look "typical" at all.

AT BEST...absolute jaw dropping incompetence...to a negligent degree. 3rd world-ish.


Which video is this referencing? I know there was one showing staffers moving media out of the way but not sure which one you're talking about.
I honestly can't remember, it was pages ago...maybe many pages. Is it possible they were just responding to media people crawling around? Maybe, but my eyes sure felt like they were not deceiving me and their body language seemed very urgent, almost as if they were panicking and just learned of a threat over the earphones.

Either way, there will never be any real evidence or "facts" presented. If questioned, agents or their bosses would just lie or stonewall anyways....like they always do. So all we can do is speculate based on our eyes, ears and assumptions.


I remember there was one a few pages back where someone in a suit was moving people from behind the stage in kind of a strangely aggressive way that looked weird, but then a follow up noted that it was a Trump campaign staffer just moving photographers to a different spot. I don't know that I've seen one showing SS acting panicked before the shots were fired.

And there have been plenty of facts presented. We have an entire timeline of the day, those facts and testimony just continue to point towards lazy incompetence by the USSS being taken advantage of by a crazy person (so far), so that's not enough for people who think there's more to it.
This was in front of the stage I believe...almost in a way that I would have though could have potentially been distracting to Trump. If I find it, I'll post it. It's possible my memory is hazy.
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aggiehawg
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In reply to El Gallo Blanco • 5:10p, 8/9/24
AG
Quote:
This was in front of the stage I believe...almost in a way that I would have though could have potentially been distracting to Trump. If I find it, I'll post it. It's possible my memory is hazy.
Front of the stage, they could see the police, weapons drawn, running around the AGR building in a flurry of activity. The PA state people who were behind the stage could also see that police activity.
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