Funky Winkerbean said:

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KidDoc said:

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I find the anti-vax people very interesting. It is an odd mix of far left and far right families- some very educated some uneducated. These same families come running into clinic for help when their kid is sick but refuse to protect them with safe and effective proven vaccines against diseases that we have no treatment for.

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Refuse to protect them from what exactly? What vaccine are these people refusing?

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It varies. Some are across the board, some are specific. The reason is usually concerns about toxins in the vaccines. I almost never hear concerns about autism any longer due to vaccine.

The real problem is these young families have not had to see kids suffer and die from these easily preventable infections. So they overestimate the tiny risk of vaccine side effects and underestimate the risk of a preventable infection.

El Gallo Blanco said:

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KidDoc said:

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I find the anti-vax people very interesting. It is an odd mix of far left and far right families- some very educated some uneducated. These same families come running into clinic for help when their kid is sick but refuse to protect them with safe and effective proven vaccines against diseases that we have no treatment for.

---

I think a lot of them are scared given the correlation between vaccine battery rollout in more recent decades and increase in autism. It may be wrong, it may be ignorant, but are RFK and others like him just making up the notion that there has been a significant increase in autism cases since these rollouts? How many vaccines are there now? Why are we giving children HPV vaccines to little kids? Do you blindly trust big pharma after Covid? Or just when it comes to traditional vaccines?

Our child is vaccinated, but I do wonder if there is a slightly greater risk of autism if you get all of these vaccines as a baby. What if it's just a 1-2% increase in risk? Is that not significant?

---

There is no known increase risk of autism with vaccines. The increase in autism is largely due to increased screening and broadening the scope of the diagnosis. I have a lot of unvaccinated autistic patients.

KidDoc said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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KidDoc said:

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I find the anti-vax people very interesting. It is an odd mix of far left and far right families- some very educated some uneducated. These same families come running into clinic for help when their kid is sick but refuse to protect them with safe and effective proven vaccines against diseases that we have no treatment for.

---

I think a lot of them are scared given the correlation between vaccine battery rollout in more recent decades and increase in autism. It may be wrong, it may be ignorant, but are RFK and others like him just making up the notion that there has been a significant increase in autism cases since these rollouts? How many vaccines are there now? Why are we giving children HPV vaccines to little kids? Do you blindly trust big pharma after Covid? Or just when it comes to traditional vaccines?

Our child is vaccinated, but I do wonder if there is a slightly greater risk of autism if you get all of these vaccines as a baby. What if it's just a 1-2% increase in risk? Is that not significant?

---

There is no known increase risk of autism with vaccines. The increase in autism is largely due to increased screening and broadening the scope of the diagnosis. I have a lot of unvaccinated autistic patients.

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Wasn't the big initial study showing a link between childhood vaccinations and autism later discredited?

techno-ag said:

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KidDoc said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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KidDoc said:

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I find the anti-vax people very interesting. It is an odd mix of far left and far right families- some very educated some uneducated. These same families come running into clinic for help when their kid is sick but refuse to protect them with safe and effective proven vaccines against diseases that we have no treatment for.

---

I think a lot of them are scared given the correlation between vaccine battery rollout in more recent decades and increase in autism. It may be wrong, it may be ignorant, but are RFK and others like him just making up the notion that there has been a significant increase in autism cases since these rollouts? How many vaccines are there now? Why are we giving children HPV vaccines to little kids? Do you blindly trust big pharma after Covid? Or just when it comes to traditional vaccines?

Our child is vaccinated, but I do wonder if there is a slightly greater risk of autism if you get all of these vaccines as a baby. What if it's just a 1-2% increase in risk? Is that not significant?

---

There is no known increase risk of autism with vaccines. The increase in autism is largely due to increased screening and broadening the scope of the diagnosis. I have a lot of unvaccinated autistic patients.

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Wasn't the big initial study showing a link between childhood vaccinations and autism later discredited?

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Yes. It was a Dr Wakefield in UK. He was paid by lawyers and did a small study at his kids birthday party that proved the MMR vaccine caused autism. He lost his medical license there and runs a cash only autism treatment center in Austin now. He has made a lot of money duping desperate parents for decades.

KidDoc said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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KidDoc said:

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I find the anti-vax people very interesting. It is an odd mix of far left and far right families- some very educated some uneducated. These same families come running into clinic for help when their kid is sick but refuse to protect them with safe and effective proven vaccines against diseases that we have no treatment for.

---

I think a lot of them are scared given the correlation between vaccine battery rollout in more recent decades and increase in autism. It may be wrong, it may be ignorant, but are RFK and others like him just making up the notion that there has been a significant increase in autism cases since these rollouts? How many vaccines are there now? Why are we giving children HPV vaccines to little kids? Do you blindly trust big pharma after Covid? Or just when it comes to traditional vaccines?

Our child is vaccinated, but I do wonder if there is a slightly greater risk of autism if you get all of these vaccines as a baby. What if it's just a 1-2% increase in risk? Is that not significant?

---

There is no known increase risk of autism with vaccines. The increase in autism is largely due to increased screening and broadening the scope of the diagnosis. I have a lot of unvaccinated autistic patients.

---

Is it a big lie that almost no Amish people have autism? I'm sorry, you're a great poster and nothing against you, but I have lost almost all trust in every major organization and institution, including medicine and big pharma. Almost every doctor was a complete sheep during Covid and after. If there was a small chance of adverse effects from standard child vaccines, I don't trust that they would even tell us. Look at how much information was suppressed in the last few yrs. I pretty much only trust God, family and close friends, and like minded patriots nowadays. The rest is a roll of the dice.

You really have a lot of unvaxxed autistic patients? I don't even know any antivaxxers. How does one know a lot of unvaccinated autistic kids? Do you specialize in autism? Genuinely curious.

Covid was never deadly. Stfu with that nonsense.

Are you including COVID vaccine on your list of vaccines or the standard TB , MMR, and Polio when you are talking about anti vaxxers?

Brother Shamus said:

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Covid was never deadly. Stfu with that nonsense.

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It was pretty deadly to those who were about to die anyway

My kid goes to school with a bunch of them. As you said, very eclectic mix. Some are incredibly wealthy and some the super granola type.

Antivaxx and spaced out vaxxing is all the rage now.

KidDoc said:

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I find the anti-vax people very interesting. It is an odd mix of far left and far right families- some very educated some uneducated. These same families come running into clinic for help when their kid is sick but refuse to protect them with safe and effective proven vaccines against diseases that we have no treatment for.

---

Question:

The list of vaccines when I was born, 1967, is a tad shorter than the list of vaccines available today.

Do we need that many more vaccines?

Gilligan said:

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KidDoc said:

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I find the anti-vax people very interesting. It is an odd mix of far left and far right families- some very educated some uneducated. These same families come running into clinic for help when their kid is sick but refuse to protect them with safe and effective proven vaccines against diseases that we have no treatment for.

---

Question:

The list of vaccines when I was born, 1967, is a tad shorter than the list of vaccines available today.

Do we need that many more vaccines?

---

I think the shingles one and that HPV one are good. Maybe the pneumonia one. But IANAD.

Logos Stick said:

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I'm not anti vaccine as long as it's been tested thoroughly and the disease warrants it. COVID met neither of those criteria.

Liberals are willing to kill this nation economically and literally by flooding the nation with illegals carrying disease.

They deserve the calamity coming their way.

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Except it's going to hit all of us

KidDoc said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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KidDoc said:

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I find the anti-vax people very interesting. It is an odd mix of far left and far right families- some very educated some uneducated. These same families come running into clinic for help when their kid is sick but refuse to protect them with safe and effective proven vaccines against diseases that we have no treatment for.

---

I think a lot of them are scared given the correlation between vaccine battery rollout in more recent decades and increase in autism. It may be wrong, it may be ignorant, but are RFK and others like him just making up the notion that there has been a significant increase in autism cases since these rollouts? How many vaccines are there now? Why are we giving children HPV vaccines to little kids? Do you blindly trust big pharma after Covid? Or just when it comes to traditional vaccines?

Our child is vaccinated, but I do wonder if there is a slightly greater risk of autism if you get all of these vaccines as a baby. What if it's just a 1-2% increase in risk? Is that not significant?

---

There is no known increase risk of autism with vaccines. The increase in autism is largely due to increased screening and broadening the scope of the diagnosis. I have a lot of unvaccinated autistic patients.

---

. If that were true why are the numbers are up among young children but not 35+ adults?

Gilligan said:

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KidDoc said:

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I find the anti-vax people very interesting. It is an odd mix of far left and far right families- some very educated some uneducated. These same families come running into clinic for help when their kid is sick but refuse to protect them with safe and effective proven vaccines against diseases that we have no treatment for.

---

Question:

The list of vaccines when I was born, 1967, is a tad shorter than the list of vaccines available today.

Do we need that many more vaccines?

---

. It's like 12 total shots (some vaccines have multiple doses) vs like 50+ "recommend" today?

AgDad121619 said:

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Are you including COVID vaccine on your list of vaccines or the standard TB , MMR, and Polio when you are talking about anti vaxxers?

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We don't vaccinate for TB in the USA. The vaccine is not very effective and the incidence is very low.

I do not recommend COVID vaccine (or flu for that matter) for low risk children as the vaccines just are not very effective.

agracer said:

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KidDoc said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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KidDoc said:

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I find the anti-vax people very interesting. It is an odd mix of far left and far right families- some very educated some uneducated. These same families come running into clinic for help when their kid is sick but refuse to protect them with safe and effective proven vaccines against diseases that we have no treatment for.

---

I think a lot of them are scared given the correlation between vaccine battery rollout in more recent decades and increase in autism. It may be wrong, it may be ignorant, but are RFK and others like him just making up the notion that there has been a significant increase in autism cases since these rollouts? How many vaccines are there now? Why are we giving children HPV vaccines to little kids? Do you blindly trust big pharma after Covid? Or just when it comes to traditional vaccines?

Our child is vaccinated, but I do wonder if there is a slightly greater risk of autism if you get all of these vaccines as a baby. What if it's just a 1-2% increase in risk? Is that not significant?

---

There is no known increase risk of autism with vaccines. The increase in autism is largely due to increased screening and broadening the scope of the diagnosis. I have a lot of unvaccinated autistic patients.

---

. If that were true why are the numbers are up among young children but not 35+ adults?

---

Because the kids are born with it. You don't develop autism suddenly it is something that becomes apparent around 12-18 months of age. You don't have teens becoming autistic either.

KidDoc said:

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agracer said:

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KidDoc said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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KidDoc said:

---

I find the anti-vax people very interesting. It is an odd mix of far left and far right families- some very educated some uneducated. These same families come running into clinic for help when their kid is sick but refuse to protect them with safe and effective proven vaccines against diseases that we have no treatment for.

---

I think a lot of them are scared given the correlation between vaccine battery rollout in more recent decades and increase in autism. It may be wrong, it may be ignorant, but are RFK and others like him just making up the notion that there has been a significant increase in autism cases since these rollouts? How many vaccines are there now? Why are we giving children HPV vaccines to little kids? Do you blindly trust big pharma after Covid? Or just when it comes to traditional vaccines?

Our child is vaccinated, but I do wonder if there is a slightly greater risk of autism if you get all of these vaccines as a baby. What if it's just a 1-2% increase in risk? Is that not significant?

---

There is no known increase risk of autism with vaccines. The increase in autism is largely due to increased screening and broadening the scope of the diagnosis. I have a lot of unvaccinated autistic patients.

---

. If that were true why are the numbers are up among young children but not 35+ adults?

---

Because the kids are born with it. You don't develop autism suddenly it is something that becomes apparent around 12-18 months of age. You don't have teens becoming autistic either.

---

Amish say hi

Gilligan said:

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KidDoc said:

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I find the anti-vax people very interesting. It is an odd mix of far left and far right families- some very educated some uneducated. These same families come running into clinic for help when their kid is sick but refuse to protect them with safe and effective proven vaccines against diseases that we have no treatment for.

---

Question:

The list of vaccines when I was born, 1967, is a tad shorter than the list of vaccines available today.

Do we need that many more vaccines?

---

Hell yes we do. There are a large number of super dangerous germs that love to kill humans. When I was in residency I saw lots of young kids with an empyema requiring chest tubes and prolonged hospitalization due to streptococcus pneumonia. Also had several pediatric deaths due to Neisseria meningitis. Since completing training in 2002 I've seen 0 Neisseria and one empyema. That is all due to the vaccines.

Now we have a couple nice options for RSV which is also a devastating infection in infants. It is a very exciting time for vaccines. To knowingly leave your child open to these devastating infections is mind boggling to me.

samurai_science said:

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KidDoc said:

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agracer said:

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KidDoc said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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KidDoc said:

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I find the anti-vax people very interesting. It is an odd mix of far left and far right families- some very educated some uneducated. These same families come running into clinic for help when their kid is sick but refuse to protect them with safe and effective proven vaccines against diseases that we have no treatment for.

---

I think a lot of them are scared given the correlation between vaccine battery rollout in more recent decades and increase in autism. It may be wrong, it may be ignorant, but are RFK and others like him just making up the notion that there has been a significant increase in autism cases since these rollouts? How many vaccines are there now? Why are we giving children HPV vaccines to little kids? Do you blindly trust big pharma after Covid? Or just when it comes to traditional vaccines?

Our child is vaccinated, but I do wonder if there is a slightly greater risk of autism if you get all of these vaccines as a baby. What if it's just a 1-2% increase in risk? Is that not significant?

---

There is no known increase risk of autism with vaccines. The increase in autism is largely due to increased screening and broadening the scope of the diagnosis. I have a lot of unvaccinated autistic patients.

---

. If that were true why are the numbers are up among young children but not 35+ adults?

---

Because the kids are born with it. You don't develop autism suddenly it is something that becomes apparent around 12-18 months of age. You don't have teens becoming autistic either.

---

Amish say hi

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Do Amish Children Really Escape Autism? The Surprising Truth (brainwave.watch)

It is low because they don't get screened. There is a pretty strong correlation with advanced parental age and autism and Amish tend to have kids young as well.

We used to have a lot more weirdos. Now they get diagnosed instead. We also have a lot of old moms which comes with all sorts of wild cards.

KidDoc said:

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agracer said:

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KidDoc said:

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El Gallo Blanco said:

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KidDoc said:

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I find the anti-vax people very interesting. It is an odd mix of far left and far right families- some very educated some uneducated. These same families come running into clinic for help when their kid is sick but refuse to protect them with safe and effective proven vaccines against diseases that we have no treatment for.

---

I think a lot of them are scared given the correlation between vaccine battery rollout in more recent decades and increase in autism. It may be wrong, it may be ignorant, but are RFK and others like him just making up the notion that there has been a significant increase in autism cases since these rollouts? How many vaccines are there now? Why are we giving children HPV vaccines to little kids? Do you blindly trust big pharma after Covid? Or just when it comes to traditional vaccines?

Our child is vaccinated, but I do wonder if there is a slightly greater risk of autism if you get all of these vaccines as a baby. What if it's just a 1-2% increase in risk? Is that not significant?

---

There is no known increase risk of autism with vaccines. The increase in autism is largely due to increased screening and broadening the scope of the diagnosis. I have a lot of unvaccinated autistic patients.

---

. If that were true why are the numbers are up among young children but not 35+ adults?

---

Because the kids are born with it. You don't develop autism suddenly it is something that becomes apparent around 12-18 months of age. You don't have teens becoming autistic either.

---

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the symptoms often become apparent following a round of vaccinations. The vaccinations cause a fever/fussiness/crying which causes the parents to be hypervigilant about their baby's behavior and that's when they notice the autism symptoms. The symptoms were of course already there and could have been observed if the parents were looking for them, but they aren't noticed prior to the vaccination reaction. The parent then believes that their baby was fine until the vaccinations and places the blame incorrectly.

KidDoc said:

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Gilligan said:

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KidDoc said:

---

I find the anti-vax people very interesting. It is an odd mix of far left and far right families- some very educated some uneducated. These same families come running into clinic for help when their kid is sick but refuse to protect them with safe and effective proven vaccines against diseases that we have no treatment for.

---

Question:

The list of vaccines when I was born, 1967, is a tad shorter than the list of vaccines available today.

Do we need that many more vaccines?

---

Hell yes we do. There are a large number of super dangerous germs that love to kill humans. When I was in residency I saw lots of young kids with an empyema requiring chest tubes and prolonged hospitalization due to streptococcus pneumonia. Also had several pediatric deaths due to Neisseria meningitis. Since completing training in 2002 I've seen 0 Neisseria and one empyema. That is all due to the vaccines.

Now we have a couple nice options for RSV which is also a devastating infection in infants. It is a very exciting time for vaccines. To knowingly leave your child open to these devastating infections is mind boggling to me.

---

I had an uncle that contracted polio in the big outbreak right before the vaccine became available. Most would agree that his life kind of sucked. His last 20 years were not unlike that of a paraplegic with progressive overall muscle weakness. Could have been so different if he had been vaccinated.

I'll list out the current vaccines and my recommendations that I give for vaccine hesitant families. I'm just chilling watching the Aggies beat up on the hogs anyway.

Hepatitis B- important if mom had Hep B but if they had normal prenatal care we know if they have it or not. Transmission from mom to a new baby is dangerous but otherwise this is only a risk for teens/adults so it could easily be delayed until teenage. The vaccine is very safe and effective though and included in most combo shots.

DTaP- diptheria- not a horrible disease outside of the first few months but no treatment.
Tetanus- this is a no brainer. You will never get rid of tetanus, there is no treatment and nearly 100% mortality. Foolish to not protect against it.
Pertussis/Whooping cough- horrible disease in kids under 6 months, treatment doesn't help the patient just prevents transmission.

PCV- Strep pneumonia - common cause of life threatening pneumonia, brain infections, blood infections. Another no brainer. Very safe and effective.

Hib- This one is very old so despite being in practice for two decades I've never seen it. It causes aggressive brain infection and epiglottic infections. Safe and effective again a no brainer

Polio- .a very contagious but mild infection but will occasionally leave long lasting paralysis. Why anyone would leave their kid open to this is mind blowing to me. Vaccine is proven safe and effective over several decades.

Rotavirus- newish (last 15 years) vaccine given by mouth. Rota causes severe vomiting and diarrhea. In the USA this resulted in a lot of hospital stays but very rare deaths. Vaccine was really made for the developing world since they die due to lack of access to IV fluids. It is safe overall so nice way to save some $$ from er visits/hospital stays. Decreased hospital stays for dehydration by 80% in the USA.

MMR- another no brainer IMO. Measles has no treatment, causes a pretty high rate of hospitalization for pneumonia and dehydration, has a small risk of subacute sclerosing panencephalitis which you don't want to know about. Mumps is a fairly miserable illness with no treatment. Causes very swollen lymph nodes and can infect the testicles and ovaries causing sterility. If you don't want grandkids I guess that is one way to do it. Rubella is no big deal unless you are pregnant and get it then it causes heart defects in your baby.

Chicken pox/Varicella- usually not dangerous unless your kid is on chemo. Can leave long term scars. Usually lasts about 2 weeks and they have to stay home the whole time. There is a risk of secondary bacterial infection that leads to necrotizing fasciitis which you don't want. Roughly 80% effective and the ones who still get natural infection get a very mild form with < 20 lesions and no fever. Both my kids had break through infections with this.

Hepatitis A- food born illness with no treatment. Causes vomiting and jaundice. Not terribly dangerous unless you are elderly. Vaccine is nearly 100% effective and very low rate of side effects.

---------------------that is it for infant vaccines until teen years----------------

Meningitis- Neisseria meningitis. When I was training at the turn of the century this was the bane of the hospital. Very rapid very bloody very nasty deaths in healthy kids. Just morally and spiritually devastating to treat these kids. Side effects are mild and worth it to prevent this now rare disease.

TdaP- see above- do you really want tetanus in your kid?

HPV- I reccommend this around 14ish or so. Data over the last 15 years is looking really good on effectiveness and safety. It is the one and only vaccine to prevent cancer. Sure if your kid is the unicorn that has one sexual partner and is not homosexual they don't have a risk of this but that is a big big gamble with humans.

Do a Brave, DuckDG, or Google search using 600+15000+Amish+Autism as the "keywords." The largest study I found includes thousands of Amish and non-Amish people who were interviewed across numerous states in the NE.

Result: 1/600 non-Amish are born with Autism; 1/15,000 Amish are born with Autism.

Reason? I don't know, but I'd consider: 1) Past alcohol/tobacco consumption by the mom/dad, or 2) Vaccines.

Quote:

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It is low because they don't get screened.

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We've always had the virus that caused the whole covid debacle as well, just not that particular strain. It's one of the viruses that cause the common cold. But now that the screen picks up on the entire viral family it appears to be an ongoing epidemic to those who choose to test.

peacedude said:

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Do a Brave, DuckDG, or Google search using 600+15000+Amish+Autism as the "keywords." The largest study I found includes thousands of Amish and non-Amish people who were interviewed across numerous states in the NE.

Result: 1/600 non-Amish are born with Autism; 1/15,000 Amish are born with Autism.

Reason? I don't know, but I'd consider: 1) Past alcohol/tobacco consumption by the mom/dad, or 2) Vaccines.

---

Even if there was a risk of autism with vaccines I would take an autistic child over a dead child.

Just my opinion though.

KidDoc said:

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peacedude said:

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Do a Brave, DuckDG, or Google search using 600+15000+Amish+Autism as the "keywords." The largest study I found includes thousands of Amish and non-Amish people who were interviewed across numerous states in the NE.

Result: 1/600 non-Amish are born with Autism; 1/15,000 Amish are born with Autism.

Reason? I don't know, but I'd consider: 1) Past alcohol/tobacco consumption by the mom/dad, or 2) Vaccines.

---

Even if there was a risk of autism with vaccines I would take an autistic child over a dead child.

Just my opinion though.

---

I'm far from anti-vax, but I'm completely "don't inject anyone with crap that hasn't been tested for a decade+."

How long did it take for the Polio vaccine makers to finally get the best version of it to the public...after many, many deaths...? A couple decades.

peacedude said:

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KidDoc said:

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peacedude said:

---

Do a Brave, DuckDG, or Google search using 600+15000+Amish+Autism as the "keywords." The largest study I found includes thousands of Amish and non-Amish people who were interviewed across numerous states in the NE.

Result: 1/600 non-Amish are born with Autism; 1/15,000 Amish are born with Autism.

Reason? I don't know, but I'd consider: 1) Past alcohol/tobacco consumption by the mom/dad, or 2) Vaccines.

---

Even if there was a risk of autism with vaccines I would take an autistic child over a dead child.

Just my opinion though.

---

I'm far from anti-vax, but I'm completely "don't inject anyone with crap that hasn't been tested for a decade+."

How long did it take for the Polio vaccine makers to finally get the best version of it to the public...after many, many deaths...? A couple decades.

---

Not unreasonable- so which of the vaccines I listed are you worried about? The youngest is at 15 years at this point.

Looks like polio took about 3 years to develop and prove safe.

History of polio: Outbreaks and vaccine timeline (mayoclinic.org)

I wasn't alive back then so had to look it up!

The only vaccines that would bother me are the ones that haven't had a huge decrease in deaths over the course of their MANY clinical trials (over the span of a decade+). I heard Pfizer had the patent for the MRNA shot back in 1990, but testing only truly began in 2020.

ETA (the actual timeline of the Polio vax...):

KidDoc said:

---

I'll list out the current vaccines and my recommendations that I give for vaccine hesitant families. I'm just chilling watching the Aggies beat up on the hogs anyway.

Hepatitis B- important if mom had Hep B but if they had normal prenatal care we know if they have it or not. Transmission from mom to a new baby is dangerous but otherwise this is only a risk for teens/adults so it could easily be delayed until teenage. The vaccine is very safe and effective though and included in most combo shots.

DTaP- diptheria- not a horrible disease outside of the first few months but no treatment.
Tetanus- this is a no brainer. You will never get rid of tetanus, there is no treatment and nearly 100% mortality. Foolish to not protect against it.
Pertussis/Whooping cough- horrible disease in kids under 6 months, treatment doesn't help the patient just prevents transmission.

PCV- Strep pneumonia - common cause of life threatening pneumonia, brain infections, blood infections. Another no brainer. Very safe and effective.

Hib- This one is very old so despite being in practice for two decades I've never seen it. It causes aggressive brain infection and epiglottic infections. Safe and effective again a no brainer

Polio- .a very contagious but mild infection but will occasionally leave long lasting paralysis. Why anyone would leave their kid open to this is mind blowing to me. Vaccine is proven safe and effective over several decades.

Rotavirus- newish (last 15 years) vaccine given by mouth. Rota causes severe vomiting and diarrhea. In the USA this resulted in a lot of hospital stays but very rare deaths. Vaccine was really made for the developing world since they die due to lack of access to IV fluids. It is safe overall so nice way to save some $$ from er visits/hospital stays. Decreased hospital stays for dehydration by 80% in the USA.

MMR- another no brainer IMO. Measles has no treatment, causes a pretty high rate of hospitalization for pneumonia and dehydration, has a small risk of subacute sclerosing panencephalitis which you don't want to know about. Mumps is a fairly miserable illness with no treatment. Causes very swollen lymph nodes and can infect the testicles and ovaries causing sterility. If you don't want grandkids I guess that is one way to do it. Rubella is no big deal unless you are pregnant and get it then it causes heart defects in your baby.

Chicken pox/Varicella- usually not dangerous unless your kid is on chemo. Can leave long term scars. Usually lasts about 2 weeks and they have to stay home the whole time. There is a risk of secondary bacterial infection that leads to necrotizing fasciitis which you don't want. Roughly 80% effective and the ones who still get natural infection get a very mild form with < 20 lesions and no fever. Both my kids had break through infections with this.

Hepatitis A- food born illness with no treatment. Causes vomiting and jaundice. Not terribly dangerous unless you are elderly. Vaccine is nearly 100% effective and very low rate of side effects.

---------------------that is it for infant vaccines until teen years----------------

Meningitis- Neisseria meningitis. When I was training at the turn of the century this was the bane of the hospital. Very rapid very bloody very nasty deaths in healthy kids. Just morally and spiritually devastating to treat these kids. Side effects are mild and worth it to prevent this now rare disease.

TdaP- see above- do you really want tetanus in your kid?

HPV- I reccommend this around 14ish or so. Data over the last 15 years is looking really good on effectiveness and safety. It is the one and only vaccine to prevent cancer. Sure if your kid is the unicorn that has one sexual partner and is not homosexual they don't have a risk of this but that is a big big gamble with humans.

---

Good info. Thanks. We had our boys vaccinated for all of the above except HPV. Wife and decided to let them make that decision on their own considering how the virus is transmitted.

I am and remain very pro vaccine. Being anti Covid vaccine, and I am, is not being an anti-vaxxer. Not that I am saying you think this. But it has been a frustrating label put on those of us that did not get the covid vax or let them put it in our kids.

And I knew I was 100% right on that decision when I was hospitalized in August 2022 for a week and not one doctor or nurse even asked me about my Covid vaccine status.

"migrant" is an honorable term - traditionally applied to farm field workers who "migrate" with the crops. North in the summer, south in the winter.

People coming into a country are "immigrants" and they come into the country either illegally or legally, there is no other choice.

An "alien" is a person residing in the country other than their home country who is not a naturalized citizen.

They changed from "illegal alien" to "illegal immigrant" to "migrant" in an attempt to normalize ignoring immigration laws.

And ALL the media seemed to move to the term at the same time.

Urban Ag said:

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KidDoc said:

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I'll list out the current vaccines and my recommendations that I give for vaccine hesitant families. I'm just chilling watching the Aggies beat up on the hogs anyway.

Hepatitis B- important if mom had Hep B but if they had normal prenatal care we know if they have it or not. Transmission from mom to a new baby is dangerous but otherwise this is only a risk for teens/adults so it could easily be delayed until teenage. The vaccine is very safe and effective though and included in most combo shots.

DTaP- diptheria- not a horrible disease outside of the first few months but no treatment.
Tetanus- this is a no brainer. You will never get rid of tetanus, there is no treatment and nearly 100% mortality. Foolish to not protect against it.
Pertussis/Whooping cough- horrible disease in kids under 6 months, treatment doesn't help the patient just prevents transmission.

PCV- Strep pneumonia - common cause of life threatening pneumonia, brain infections, blood infections. Another no brainer. Very safe and effective.

Hib- This one is very old so despite being in practice for two decades I've never seen it. It causes aggressive brain infection and epiglottic infections. Safe and effective again a no brainer

Polio- .a very contagious but mild infection but will occasionally leave long lasting paralysis. Why anyone would leave their kid open to this is mind blowing to me. Vaccine is proven safe and effective over several decades.

Rotavirus- newish (last 15 years) vaccine given by mouth. Rota causes severe vomiting and diarrhea. In the USA this resulted in a lot of hospital stays but very rare deaths. Vaccine was really made for the developing world since they die due to lack of access to IV fluids. It is safe overall so nice way to save some $$ from er visits/hospital stays. Decreased hospital stays for dehydration by 80% in the USA.

MMR- another no brainer IMO. Measles has no treatment, causes a pretty high rate of hospitalization for pneumonia and dehydration, has a small risk of subacute sclerosing panencephalitis which you don't want to know about. Mumps is a fairly miserable illness with no treatment. Causes very swollen lymph nodes and can infect the testicles and ovaries causing sterility. If you don't want grandkids I guess that is one way to do it. Rubella is no big deal unless you are pregnant and get it then it causes heart defects in your baby.

Chicken pox/Varicella- usually not dangerous unless your kid is on chemo. Can leave long term scars. Usually lasts about 2 weeks and they have to stay home the whole time. There is a risk of secondary bacterial infection that leads to necrotizing fasciitis which you don't want. Roughly 80% effective and the ones who still get natural infection get a very mild form with < 20 lesions and no fever. Both my kids had break through infections with this.

Hepatitis A- food born illness with no treatment. Causes vomiting and jaundice. Not terribly dangerous unless you are elderly. Vaccine is nearly 100% effective and very low rate of side effects.

---------------------that is it for infant vaccines until teen years----------------

Meningitis- Neisseria meningitis. When I was training at the turn of the century this was the bane of the hospital. Very rapid very bloody very nasty deaths in healthy kids. Just morally and spiritually devastating to treat these kids. Side effects are mild and worth it to prevent this now rare disease.

TdaP- see above- do you really want tetanus in your kid?

HPV- I reccommend this around 14ish or so. Data over the last 15 years is looking really good on effectiveness and safety. It is the one and only vaccine to prevent cancer. Sure if your kid is the unicorn that has one sexual partner and is not homosexual they don't have a risk of this but that is a big big gamble with humans.

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Good info. Thanks. We had our boys vaccinated for all of the above except HPV. Wife and decided to let them make that decision on their own considering how the virus is transmitted.

I am and remain very pro vaccine. Being anti Covid vaccine, and I am, is not being an anti-vaxxer. Not that I am saying you think this. But it has been a frustrating label put on those of us that did not get the covid vax or let them put it in our kids.

And I knew I was 100% right on that decision when I was hospitalized in August 2022 for a week and not one doctor or nurse even asked me about my Covid vaccine status.

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For families worried about COVID I recommend the Novavax vaccine. That is what I got last fall. No side effects for me and is more along the traditional Hep A/Hep B tech not mRNA which has been very disappointing.

FDA Approves Updated Non-mRNA COVID Vaccine From Novavax (webmd.com)

cecil77 said:

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"migrant" is an honorable term - traditionally applied to farm field workers who "migrate" with the crops. North in the summer, south in the winter.

People coming into a country are "immigrants" and they come into the country either illegally or legally, there is no other choice.

An "alien" is a person residing in the country other than their home country who is not a naturalized citizen.

They changed from "illegal alien" to "illegal immigrant" to "migrant" in an attempt to normalize ignoring immigration laws.

And ALL the media seemed to move to the term at the same time.

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The main benefit of HPV vaccination for hetero boys is not getting it and spreading it to their future wife and it is also a very common cause of oral cancers due to (male on female specifically) oral sex. But it is for sure an individual decision. Men who have sex with men are by far the highest risk group for HPV related cancers.