More useful these days is missile engagement tactics. How close and what path to take to optimize chances of successfully engaging the target while minimizing risk of being targeted. It's a very complex set of variables and while it can be trained, it is a lot to process. Right now it is my understanding that such engagements are already heavily aided by the flight electronics, and the human pilot flies the path best indicated by the electronics and makes the actual decisions. It wouldn't be a far reach for an AI nearly or fully assuming that process.

I thought modern planes and missiles pretty much guaranteed dogfights were a thing of the past.

techno-ag said:

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https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/18/24133870/us-air-force-ai-dogfight-test-x-62a

Quote:

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The US Air Force is putting AI in the pilot's seat. In an update on Thursday, the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) revealed that an AI-controlled jet successfully faced a human pilot during an in-air dogfight test carried out last year.

DARPA began experimenting with AI applications in December 2022 as part of its Air Combat Evolution (ACE) program. It worked to develop an AI system capable of autonomously flying a fighter jet, while also adhering to the Air Force's safety protocols.

After carrying out dogfighting simulations using the AI pilot, DARPA put its work to the test by installing the AI system inside its experimental X-62A aircraft. That allowed it to get the AI-controlled craft into the air at the Edwards Air Force Base in California, where it says it carried out its first successful dogfight test against a human in September 2023.

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Wowzers. First thought: everyone saying AI can't pilot planes is obviously wrong. They're piloting fighter jets, literally.

Second: this first happened in 2022? They're continuing through 2024 according to the article. Our military is way ahead of everyone else, as usual.

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This is where the human pilot wins.

I posted this a long time ago. It's been on the official site for quite a while.

There was a time when it would've been hard to imagine a pilotless plane flying solely on artificial intelligence. Now the U.S. Air Force is in the process of adding exactly that to our aircraft portfolio. Under Project Skyborg, future high-risk missions will be mitigated by having fighter jets accompanied by AI-enabled, combat aerial vehicles.

Since the Air Force plans to build a fleet of Skyborgs, we can be more strategic about where we deploy our assets and our Airmen. If it's a high-risk mission, we will be able to employ an unmanned, AI-guided jet. Then once the mission's completed, an Airman will retrieve the jet at an off-base location, since Skyborgs don't require a conventional runway to take off or land.

Project Skyborg (airforce.com)


It's basically just drones now, but obviously full AI combat vehicles of all types are imminent.

They've been working on this stuff for a long time. Getting rid of the g-limits/mass etc. a human imposes on the aircraft provides more capability and endurance/ammo too.

Zero doubt AI is in the works. USAF also just announced (sort of) they may only buy 100 B-21's, as 'air combat evolves rapidly' so I think we all probably know that bombers in the future will be basically unmanned 90 percent of the time. Why risk a life/POW to fly over enemy air defenses if it's not necessary?

In a few more generations the DARPA/Boston Dynamics robots will be capable enough to send into land combat.

If the US Army gets the headsets it wants on actual combat troops those robots will have thousands of hours to learn how to fight with. You know similar to how self driving cars were developed.

Then include facial recognition tech to those fighting robots and........

Madman said:

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In a few more generations the DARPA/Boston Dynamics robots will be capable enough to send into land combat.

If the US Army gets the headsets it wants on actual combat troops those robots will have thousands of hours to learn how to fight with. You know similar to how self driving cars were developed.

Then include facial recognition tech to those fighting robots and........

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I saw that movie

Stealth (2005) Official Trailer 1 - Jessica Biel Movie (youtube.com)

Top Gun 3 is gonna be a let down, or maybe the best yet.

If we don't, then our enemies will. We gotta be better at it than they are.

https://www.edwards.af.mil/News/Article-View/Article/3744695/usaf-test-pilot-school-and-darpa-announce-breakthrough-in-aerospace-machine-lea/

Quote:

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"The potential for autonomous air-to-air combat has been imaginable for decades, but the reality has remained a distant dream up until now. In 2023, the X-62A broke one of the most significant barriers in combat aviation. This is a transformational moment, all made possible by breakthrough accomplishments of the X-62A ACE team," said Secretary of the Air Force Frank Kendall. Secretary Kendall will soon take flight in the X-62A VISTA to personally witness AI in a simulated combat environment during a forthcoming test flight at Edwards.

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SecAF, a 75 year old dude, will fly in an autonomous F-16 here soon.

Martin Q. Blank said:

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I thought modern planes and missiles pretty much guaranteed dogfights were a thing of the past.

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The F-35 has much better over the horizon systems that can knock out any other aircraft before they even know its there. But if you can combine that with AI that would be one scary system.

Aircraft have always been designed knowing the limitations of the pilot, take that out and things get even scarier.

P.U.T.U said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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I thought modern planes and missiles pretty much guaranteed dogfights were a thing of the past.

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The F-35 has much better over the horizon systems that can knock out any other aircraft before they even know its there. But if you can combine that with AI that would be one scary system.

Aircraft have always been designed knowing the limitations of the pilot, take that out and things get even scarier.

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Dogfighting in and of itself is largely antiquated...planes are ultimately a delivery mechanism for a munition.

K2-HMFIC said:

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P.U.T.U said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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I thought modern planes and missiles pretty much guaranteed dogfights were a thing of the past.

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The F-35 has much better over the horizon systems that can knock out any other aircraft before they even know its there. But if you can combine that with AI that would be one scary system.

Aircraft have always been designed knowing the limitations of the pilot, take that out and things get even scarier.

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Dogfighting in and of itself is largely antiquated...planes are ultimately a delivery mechanism for a munition.

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Yep, just think of these fighter jets as the first-stage booster for guided missiles.

techno-ag said:

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Madman said:

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In a few more generations the DARPA/Boston Dynamics robots will be capable enough to send into land combat.

If the US Army gets the headsets it wants on actual combat troops those robots will have thousands of hours to learn how to fight with. You know similar to how self driving cars were developed.

Then include facial recognition tech to those fighting robots and........

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For those who don't follow the SpaceX thread...

I knew I've seen this movie before!

Tex100 said:

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Top Gun 3 is gonna be a let down, or maybe the best yet.

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My thought too. It would have to be about Top Nerd. Which programmer can prompt the best dogfighting algorithm. Also the character intrigue would be which 35 year old dork can maybe summon the courage to talk to an actual woman at Dragon Con. In person.

Lonely nuclear-powered drones will still be flying autonomously hundreds of years after humans are gone, looking for targets and finding none.

I have a friend developing drone attack boats with AI.
We're all doomed.

AI dog fighting you say?

NEW - Throwflame unveils the "Thermonator" — the first-ever flame-throwing quadruped robot dog. pic.twitter.com/RKjurmSpEX

— Disclose.tv (@disclosetv) April 23, 2024

Ya know man.....humanity is heading towards some absolutely crazy sheet in the not too distant future.

I'm really glad that Im going to be dust before all of this really goes absolutely insane.

carriers ultimately will be drone bases. allowing smaller carriers (less eggs in a one basket) and longer on-station times for drones. imagine having radar drones several hundred miles out, looking a few hundred more miles, and several in the air at all times.

the interesting dynamic to unmanned planes is that I think It will make aggression by places such as iran/china/north Korea more blatant, and more "acceptable" since no one is killed.. but I feel that takes us closer to teasing the line of an actual engagement.

techno-ag said:

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https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/18/24133870/us-air-force-ai-dogfight-test-x-62a

Quote:

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The US Air Force is putting AI in the pilot's seat. In an update on Thursday, the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) revealed that an AI-controlled jet successfully faced a human pilot during an in-air dogfight test carried out last year.

DARPA began experimenting with AI applications in December 2022 as part of its Air Combat Evolution (ACE) program. It worked to develop an AI system capable of autonomously flying a fighter jet, while also adhering to the Air Force's safety protocols.

After carrying out dogfighting simulations using the AI pilot, DARPA put its work to the test by installing the AI system inside its experimental X-62A aircraft. That allowed it to get the AI-controlled craft into the air at the Edwards Air Force Base in California, where it says it carried out its first successful dogfight test against a human in September 2023.

---

Wowzers. First thought: everyone saying AI can't pilot planes is obviously wrong. They're piloting fighter jets, literally.

Second: this first happened in 2022? They're continuing through 2024 according to the article. Our military is way ahead of everyone else, as usual.

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There's much less to hit in the sky. No lanes, no pedestrians.

Plus, unmanned vehicles are open to maneuvers that just can't happen with a human on board.

Martin Q. Blank said:

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I thought modern planes and missiles pretty much guaranteed dogfights were a thing of the past.

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Yeah, someone else said that once. Then Vietnam happened.

Tex100 said:

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Top Gun 3 is gonna be a let down, or maybe the best yet.

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Spoiler alert: Top Gun 3: The Terminator

Joes said:

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I posted this a long time ago. It's been on the official site for quite a while.

There was a time when it would've been hard to imagine a pilotless plane flying solely on artificial intelligence. Now the U.S. Air Force is in the process of adding exactly that to our aircraft portfolio. Under Project Skyborg, future high-risk missions will be mitigated by having fighter jets accompanied by AI-enabled, combat aerial vehicles.

Since the Air Force plans to build a fleet of Skyborgs, we can be more strategic about where we deploy our assets and our Airmen. If it's a high-risk mission, we will be able to employ an unmanned, AI-guided jet. Then once the mission's completed, an Airman will retrieve the jet at an off-base location, since Skyborgs don't require a conventional runway to take off or land.

Project Skyborg (airforce.com)


It's basically just drones now, but obviously full AI combat vehicles of all types are imminent.

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A big risk in sending only machines is losing control of technology. You're only ahead of the game until the enemy captures equipment and reverse engineers a copy of it… or worse, improves on it.

agracer said:

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techno-ag said:

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https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/18/24133870/us-air-force-ai-dogfight-test-x-62a

Quote:

---

The US Air Force is putting AI in the pilot's seat. In an update on Thursday, the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) revealed that an AI-controlled jet successfully faced a human pilot during an in-air dogfight test carried out last year.

DARPA began experimenting with AI applications in December 2022 as part of its Air Combat Evolution (ACE) program. It worked to develop an AI system capable of autonomously flying a fighter jet, while also adhering to the Air Force's safety protocols.

After carrying out dogfighting simulations using the AI pilot, DARPA put its work to the test by installing the AI system inside its experimental X-62A aircraft. That allowed it to get the AI-controlled craft into the air at the Edwards Air Force Base in California, where it says it carried out its first successful dogfight test against a human in September 2023.

---

Wowzers. First thought: everyone saying AI can't pilot planes is obviously wrong. They're piloting fighter jets, literally.

Second: this first happened in 2022? They're continuing through 2024 according to the article. Our military is way ahead of everyone else, as usual.

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This is where the human pilot wins.

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