10 years after armed standoff with federal agents, Bundy cattle are still grazing disputed rangeland

https://www.yahoo.com/news/10-years-armed-standoff-federal-080350716.html

This is why we have the 2nd amendment.

2nd amendment is si we can illegal graze cattle

Old Army Ghost said:

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2nd amendment is si we can illegal graze cattle

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It's our land. All of ours. The federal government should give all that land back to the states anyway. Somebody should be grazing it.

sounds like arguments for giving it to tribes

Old Army Ghost said:

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2nd amendment is si we can illegal graze cattle

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Back when i was studying forestry we learned that US Forests were public lands and could be used by the public for recreation as well as cattle grazing.

Today's BLM is rum by morons who focus on:

Climate change is driving unprecedented drought and increasingly intense fires, a loss of wildlife, and an influx of invasive species. At the same time, public lands face growing pressures as recreation increases and development on private land disrupts habitat

Old Army Ghost said:

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sounds like arguments for giving it to tribes

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As soon as we get reparations from American Indians for all the damage tobacco has caused settlers and their descendants.

ABATTBQ87 said:

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Old Army Ghost said:

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2nd amendment is si we can illegal graze cattle

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Back when i was studying forestry we learned that US Forests were public lands and could be used by the public for recreation as well as cattle grazing.

Today's BLM is rum by morons who focus on:

Climate change is driving unprecedented drought and increasingly intense fires, a loss of wildlife, and an influx of invasive species. At the same time, public lands face growing pressures as recreation increases and development on private land disrupts habitat

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did you not learn that the forestry service requires permits to harvest trees

this guy doesnt pay his permit

Old Army Ghost said:

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ABATTBQ87 said:

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Old Army Ghost said:

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2nd amendment is si we can illegal graze cattle

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Back when i was studying forestry we learned that US Forests were public lands and could be used by the public for recreation as well as cattle grazing.

Today's BLM is rum by morons who focus on:

Climate change is driving unprecedented drought and increasingly intense fires, a loss of wildlife, and an influx of invasive species. At the same time, public lands face growing pressures as recreation increases and development on private land disrupts habitat

---

did you not learn that the forestry service requires permits to harvest trees

this guy doesnt pay his permit

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He's not harvesting timber, he's grazing on public lands where diot environmentalists are trying to protect some tortoise

Old Army Ghost said:

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sounds like arguments for giving it to tribes

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GTFOH. We're a Republic of States. The government needs to stay out of the states. That's our biggest problem right now. Many people don't understand what the Supreme Court said in regard to abortion. They sent it back to states. We need more things to get reverted back to the states. Nobody's talking about giving things up to native people that were here before or Mexico or France or Spain. Those people were conquered or beat long ago.

BTHOB-98 said:

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Old Army Ghost said:

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2nd amendment is si we can illegal graze cattle

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It's our land. All of ours. The federal government should give all that land back to the states anyway. Somebody should be grazing it.

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AMEN!! Let A&M and SFA manage all public forest lands in Texas and kick the feds out of our state

ABATTBQ87 said:

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BTHOB-98 said:

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Old Army Ghost said:

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2nd amendment is si we can illegal graze cattle

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It's our land. All of ours. The federal government should give all that land back to the states anyway. Somebody should be grazing it.

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AMEN!! Let A&M and SFA manage all public forest lands in Texas and kick the feds out of our state

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100%

Old Army Ghost said:

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sounds like arguments for giving it to tribes

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Nope. We conquered the Indians. They no longer have a claim to land outside the reservations

They dont have a claim to any land.

The land can't be given "back" to the State of Nevada as it was never theirs. Their original constitution said they didn't want it and it belongs to the USA.

I doubt Nevada is interested in buying

Always felt that situation was de-escalated because Obama didn't want the political risk of a Ruby Ridge being broadcast live all over the internet.

The feds have figured out that it's much easier to use the courts to do their dirty work.

ABATTBQ87 said:

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Old Army Ghost said:

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2nd amendment is si we can illegal graze cattle

---

Back when i was studying forestry we learned that US Forests were public lands and could be used by the public for recreation as well as cattle grazing.

Today's BLM is rum by morons who focus on:

Climate change is driving unprecedented drought and increasingly intense fires, a loss of wildlife, and an influx of invasive species. At the same time, public lands face growing pressures as recreation increases and development on private land disrupts habitat

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Little know fun fact. The national forest is not the same as a national park. It's trees are for Americans to USE. In fact, every American is guaranteed enough "house logs" of trees to build a house every year.

I hate when people think National Forests and BLM is to be looked at only.

Slight derail

jeremy said:

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ABATTBQ87 said:

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Old Army Ghost said:

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2nd amendment is si we can illegal graze cattle

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Back when i was studying forestry we learned that US Forests were public lands and could be used by the public for recreation as well as cattle grazing.

Today's BLM is rum by morons who focus on:

Climate change is driving unprecedented drought and increasingly intense fires, a loss of wildlife, and an influx of invasive species. At the same time, public lands face growing pressures as recreation increases and development on private land disrupts habitat

---

Little know fun fact. The national forest is not the same as a national park. It's trees are for Americans to USE. In fact, every American is guaranteed enough "house logs" of trees to build a house every year.

I hate when people think National Forests and BLM is to be looked at only.

Slight derail

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Another fun fact, it is extremely difficult to harvest timber in national forests due to the moronic policies on place to protect wildlife and ecosystems.

Because of these policies forests are not managed properly resulting in build ups of fuel, that eventually produce huge wildfires.

Another fun fact is that the majority of lumber and plywood production is in the south, where the majority of timber is owned by non industrial private landowners and timber companies, not the US forest service.

When I worked in east Texas lumber and plywood manufacturing we rarely received timber from any national forest

I assume he has paid all his past due grazing fees?

ABATTBQ87 said:

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Old Army Ghost said:

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2nd amendment is si we can illegal graze cattle

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Back when i was studying forestry we learned that US Forests were public lands and could be used by the public for recreation as well as cattle grazing.

Today's BLM is rum by morons who focus on:

Climate change is driving unprecedented drought and increasingly intense fires, a loss of wildlife, and an influx of invasive species. At the same time, public lands face growing pressures as recreation increases and development on private land disrupts habitat

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100000000% true

torrid said:

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I assume he has paid all his past due grazing fees?

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4130.5 Free-use grazing permits.

(a) A free-use grazing permit shall be issued to any applicant whose residence is adjacent to public lands within grazing districts and who needs these public lands to support those domestic livestock owned by the applicant whose products or work are used directly and exclusively by the applicant and his family. The issuance of free-use grazing permits is subject to 4130.1-2. These permits shall be issued on an annual basis. These permits cannot be transferred or assigned

Today, family members estimate that more than 700 Bundy cattle graze widely in the scrubby green Virgin River valley surrounding the 160-acre (64.7-hectare) Bundy ranch and in Gold Butte, a scenic and archaeologically rich Mojave Desert expanse half the size of the state of Delaware that then-President Barack Obama designated a national monument in December 2016.

> I had forgotten about this.

Nevermind, I thought this thread was about something else

Old Army Ghost said:

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ABATTBQ87 said:

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Old Army Ghost said:

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2nd amendment is si we can illegal graze cattle

---

Back when i was studying forestry we learned that US Forests were public lands and could be used by the public for recreation as well as cattle grazing.

Today's BLM is rum by morons who focus on:

Climate change is driving unprecedented drought and increasingly intense fires, a loss of wildlife, and an influx of invasive species. At the same time, public lands face growing pressures as recreation increases and development on private land disrupts habitat

---

did you not learn that the forestry service requires permits to harvest trees

this guy doesnt pay his permit

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You are really good at proving you don't know very much, at all, about anything. Why do you continue to embarrass yourself?

BTHOB-98 said:

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Old Army Ghost said:

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sounds like arguments for giving it to tribes

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GTFOH. We're a Republic of States. The government needs to stay out of the states. That's our biggest problem right now. Many people don't understand what the Supreme Court said in regard to abortion. They sent it back to states. We need more things to get reverted back to the states. Nobody's talking about giving things up to native people that were here before or Mexico or France or Spain. Those people were conquered or beat long ago.

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For reference:
Federal lands (not sure how accurate)

• The federal government manages about 640 million acres (2.6 million km2) of land in the United States, which is about 28% of the total land area of 2.27 billion acres (9.2 million km2).

Maybe they should sell some to reduce the federal deficit?

Those are the things the BLM is supposed to focus on. Focusing on those issues creates more grass on public lands. More grass means happy ranchers and fat cows. Natural, cyclical climate change is real and is having a negative effect on public lands right now. Man made change is a farce.

What most people don't realize is the almost unlimited amount of amazingly beautiful places that exist out west. It's a campers paradise

The Bundys are idiots and are not people to sympathize with.

richardag said:

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BTHOB-98 said:

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Old Army Ghost said:

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sounds like arguments for giving it to tribes

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GTFOH. We're a Republic of States. The government needs to stay out of the states. That's our biggest problem right now. Many people don't understand what the Supreme Court said in regard to abortion. They sent it back to states. We need more things to get reverted back to the states. Nobody's talking about giving things up to native people that were here before or Mexico or France or Spain. Those people were conquered or beat long ago.

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For reference:
Federal lands (not sure how accurate)

• The federal government manages about 640 million acres (2.6 million km2) of land in the United States, which is about 28% of the total land area of 2.27 billion acres (9.2 million km2).

Maybe they should sell some to reduce the federal deficit?

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That's what Texas did after they joined the US...to settle a lot of our state debt...they basically "sold" it to the US in exchange for the US taking on our debt.

ABATTBQ87 said:

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Old Army Ghost said:

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2nd amendment is si we can illegal graze cattle

---

Back when i was studying forestry we learned that US Forests were public lands and could be used by the public for recreation as well as cattle grazing.

Today's BLM is rum by morons who focus on:

Climate change is driving unprecedented drought and increasingly intense fires, a loss of wildlife, and an influx of invasive species. At the same time, public lands face growing pressures as recreation increases and development on private land disrupts habitat

---

That's all well, fine, and good, but Bundy is nothing more than a bum and thief who owes the taxpayers 7 figures for the privilege of grazing public lands. It's not a right to graze cattle there, and he should pay up and follow the lease guidelines as others do.

2nd amendment right to bear angus

Says a retired gubmint bureaucrat.

Mas89 said:

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Says a retired gubmint bureaucrat.

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Who would have to pay the fees like everyone else……..but Bundy.

B-1 83 said:

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Mas89 said:

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Says a retired gubmint bureaucrat.

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Who would have to pay the fees like everyone else……..but Bundy.

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I posted this above:

4130.5 Free-use grazing permits.

(a) A free-use grazing permit shall be issued to any applicant whose residence is adjacent to public lands within grazing districts and who needs these public lands to support those domestic livestock owned by the applicant whose products or work are used directly and exclusively by the applicant and his family. The issuance of free-use grazing permits is subject to 4130.1-2. These permits shall be issued on an annual basis. These permits cannot be transferred or assigned

Today, family members estimate that more than 700 Bundy cattle graze widely in the scrubby green Virgin River valley surrounding the 160-acre (64.7-hectare) Bundy ranch and in Gold Butte, a scenic and archaeologically rich Mojave Desert expanse half the size of the state of Delaware that then-President Barack Obama designated a national monument in December 2016.

If Bundys property is adjacent to BLM lands he should be allowed to graze for free.

Some of their big arguments at that time was that the BLM was no longer actively managing the land and the Bundy's were having to do it. IE maintenance of fences, gates, water structures, etc.

Because of what happened at the standoff the gov has learned NOT to fight the people head to head but to pick them apart by black balling them and lawfaring them to comply. See J6.

ABATTBQ87 said:

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B-1 83 said:

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Mas89 said:

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Says a retired gubmint bureaucrat.

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Who would have to pay the fees like everyone else……..but Bundy.

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I posted this above:

4130.5 Free-use grazing permits.

(a) A free-use grazing permit shall be issued to any applicant whose residence is adjacent to public lands within grazing districts and who needs these public lands to support those domestic livestock owned by the applicant whose products or work are used directly and exclusively by the applicant and his family. The issuance of free-use grazing permits is subject to 4130.1-2. These permits shall be issued on an annual basis. These permits cannot be transferred or assigned

Today, family members estimate that more than 700 Bundy cattle graze widely in the scrubby green Virgin River valley surrounding the 160-acre (64.7-hectare) Bundy ranch and in Gold Butte, a scenic and archaeologically rich Mojave Desert expanse half the size of the state of Delaware that then-President Barack Obama designated a national monument in December 2016.

If Bundys property is adjacent to BLM lands he should be allowed to graze for free.

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You missed this part from 4130.1-2:

"(h) The applicant's and [url=https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=bc3c13b00316246576fd796bf9093dd5&term_occur=999&term_src=Title:43:Subtitle:B:Chapter:II:Subchapter:Part:4100:Subpart:4130:4130.1-2]affiliate[/url]'s history of compliance with the terms and conditions of [url=https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=74853c1935f91feeffd65e6077dc3864&term_occur=999&term_src=Title:43:Subtitle:B:Chapter:II:Subchapter:Part:4100:Subpart:4130:4130.1-2]grazing permits[/url] and leases of the Bureau of Land Management and any other Federal or State agency, including any record of [url=https://www.law.cornell.edu/definitions/index.php?width=840&height=800&iframe=true&def_id=b2ac5942bb67e23ba496ef327450b8c0&term_occur=999&term_src=Title:43:Subtitle:B:Chapter:II:Subchapter:Part:4100:Subpart:4130:4130.1-2]suspensions[/url]or cancellations of grazing use for violations of terms and conditions of agency grazing rules."

He does not get to graze thousands of acres for free just because his home place touches BLM land. He's even tried to pay the fees to Nevada because he believes the Feds can't own land. Then there's this little phrase….

"who needs these public lands to support those domestic livestock owned by the applicant whose products or work are used directly and exclusively by the applicant and his family. "

700 head is an awful lot of meat to exclusively support one family. I suspect this goes back to the family milk cow in a bygone eaa, and also that Bundy does not have current permits as required. He's a nut case grazing squatter, stealing from taxpayers, and should be treated as such.



My apologies for how weird the copy/paste of the regulation came out. I tried to clean it up, but it looks fine in the post/edit window. Odd.

Ranchers are supposed to maintain their fences and gates on their grazing allotments. That means alot of fences on public land are help with little more than imagination. The blm range conservationist that oversees a grazing allotment will often help fix gates, and fences up to a point. They also pay attention to water sources, wells etc to make sure they're working. It helps to have a good working relationship with the ranchers.

His son Ammon is a worthless nut job also. He's the one that is responsible for occupying the Malhuer wildlife refuge headquarters in Oregon almost a decade ago.

Ag with kids said:

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richardag said:

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BTHOB-98 said:

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Old Army Ghost said:

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sounds like arguments for giving it to tribes

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GTFOH. We're a Republic of States. The government needs to stay out of the states. That's our biggest problem right now. Many people don't understand what the Supreme Court said in regard to abortion. They sent it back to states. We need more things to get reverted back to the states. Nobody's talking about giving things up to native people that were here before or Mexico or France or Spain. Those people were conquered or beat long ago.

---

For reference:
Federal lands (not sure how accurate)

• The federal government manages about 640 million acres (2.6 million km2) of land in the United States, which is about 28% of the total land area of 2.27 billion acres (9.2 million km2).

Maybe they should sell some to reduce the federal deficit?

---

That's what Texas did after they joined the US...to settle a lot of our state debt...they basically "sold" it to the US in exchange for the US taking on our debt.

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I did not know this thanks for the information.