Quote:

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Simply saying FU and talking about what happened 20 years ago as a reason isn't smart when going up against a monster like what A&M can be when it wants to be. Much better to try and be involved in good faith and if it breaks down so be it, at least your concerns can be voiced at the table and people are more likely to listen.

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I would like to "be involved in good faith". But it would helpful to have evidence that things have changed. To have some official university representative say "The Bowen administration totally messed up the aftermath of Collapse. In hindsight, the university should have admitted responsibility, paid all the injured people's medical bills, and focused on addressing our student body's needs during this difficult time instead of covering the school's ass from litigation."

Quote:

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Once again, you aren't listening.

---

All due respect here, but I don't think you are listening. You have been clear your desire to bring it back on campus. You have also been clear you support the effort even if it involves changes a lot of posters do not want.

You made a comment about posters being "naive", but the problem with that statement is, some of these posters have seen the fight first hand and have zero faith/trust the university is interested in a good-faith effort. Yes, people have moved on, leadership has changed, but that does not mean things will unequivocally be different this time.

It is a fairly straight forward argument:

* If your main goal is to get it back on campus, it will have to be different. Student involvement will not be what it is today or what it was. If you want it on campus, you have to be OK with this fact

* If your main goal is to preserve the tradition of a student run and student built bonfire, it will not be allowed on campus and it will not have university involvement.

For some posters, me included, the desire to have it back on campus is not more important than the tradition of a student built bonfire. For others, it is.

It has been run successfully off campus for years and it is sad so many students and former students don't participate or attend, but again, things change. Do we really 'punish' those who have kept the tradition alive through hard work and sacrifice by stripping them of their involvement in favor of folks who haven't been a part of it?

ETA: "haven't been a part of it" referring to keeping it alive for the years after the tragedy.

BonfireNerd04 said:

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Quote:

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Simply saying FU and talking about what happened 20 years ago as a reason isn't smart when going up against a monster like what A&M can be when it wants to be. Much better to try and be involved in good faith and if it breaks down so be it, at least your concerns can be voiced at the table and people are more likely to listen.

---

I would like to "be involved in good faith". But it would helpful to have evidence that things have changed. To have some official university representative say "The Bowen administration totally messed up the aftermath of Collapse. In hindsight, the university should have admitted responsibility, paid all the injured people's medical bills, and focused on addressing our student body's needs during this difficult time instead of covering the school's ass from litigation."

---

I have no idea if the school will work in good faith and I think it is very fair to be skeptical. I also know you aren't going to get a Braveheart style "apologize to every person you have ever hurt and kiss your own ass" apology.

So in the meantime the school still has all the real power and can do whatever they want regardless of what you or I want. You can just choose to work with them or not.

Agthatbuilds said:

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Sounds good. Students or nothing.

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100% student run isn't realistic if the school is associated with it after the collapse. They have to have safety and engineering standards enforced because they will have the liability if something goes wrong.

We fixed the keg said:

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Quote:

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some of these posters have seen the fight first hand and have zero faith/trust the university is interested in a good-faith effort

---

---

For the off campus bonfire folks - curious what would actually qualify as a good faith effort from the University for you? I understand that whether it's realistic and expected is a completely separate conversation

At one point there was the idea that TAMU could contract SB to build Bonfire on campus. (SB can underbid any contractor since it's a non-profit with volunteer labor.)

That was a no.

aggie93 said:

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Agthatbuilds said:

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Sounds good. Students or nothing.

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100% student run isn't realistic if the school is associated with it after the collapse. They have to have safety and engineering standards enforced because they will have the liability if something goes wrong.

---

Student Bonfire design was created by engineers. If I remember correctly early on it was even inspected.


100% students and student led.
Have a firm give the specs and inspect it periodically.

University officials can stand by and be invited to speak, but I'll let the students decide how involved.

Ag13 said:

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We fixed the keg said:

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Quote:

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some of these posters have seen the fight first hand and have zero faith/trust the university is interested in a good-faith effort

---

---

For the off campus bonfire folks - curious what would actually qualify as a good faith effort from the University for you? I understand that whether it's realistic and expected is a completely separate conversation

---

1. Assurance of student participation in any official Bonfire. I would be willing to concede to having a contractor take over parts of the process (e.g., the Brownpots' chainsaw duties), and to additional safety regulations, but the majority of Cut or Stack should be done by students.
2. An official apology for at least some of the university's actions in the aftermath of Collapse.

We fixed the keg said:

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Quote:

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Once again, you aren't listening.

---

All due respect here, but I don't think you are listening. You have been clear your desire to bring it back on campus. You have also been clear you support the effort even if it involves changes a lot of posters do not want.

You made a comment about posters being "naive", but the problem with that statement is, some of these posters have seen the fight first hand and have zero faith/trust the university is interested in a good-faith effort. Yes, people have moved on, leadership has changed, but that does not mean things will unequivocally be different this time.

It is a fairly straight forward argument:

* If your main goal is to get it back on campus, it will have to be different. Student involvement will not be what it is today or what it was. If you want it on campus, you have to be OK with this fact

* If your main goal is to preserve the tradition of a student run and student built bonfire, it will not be allowed on campus and it will not have university involvement.

For some posters, me included, the desire to have it back on campus is not more important than the tradition of a student built bonfire. For others, it is.

It has been run successfully off campus for years and it is sad so many students and former students don't participate or attend, but again, things change. Do we really 'punish' those who have kept the tradition alive through hard work and sacrifice by stripping them of their involvement in favor of folks who haven't been a part of it?

ETA: "haven't been a part of it" referring to keeping it alive for the years after the tragedy.

---

Oh I'm listening.

The part you are missing is this idea that Student Bonfire is in control of this. The University has the real power. They can choose to have a Bonfire On Campus or not and there is nothing any of us can really do about it. They can choose to sue or make it virtually impossible to continue Student Bonfire or not and there is also very little we can do about it. You seem to think that simply because of the work and effort that has been put in by Student Bonfire over the last 20 years they can continue if the school decides to stop them. Good luck with that.

I don't like it by the way but I do understand it. I would like for things to be back to where they were prior to the collapse plus adding better safety and engineering oversight to it with students doing absolutely everything feasible as a part of that. I have no illusions though of the power of the school and what they can do if they choose to.

Most of your post and others are trying to argue with me about why you like Student Bonfire better. That's a reasonable argument but a separate one. My point is you don't understand what it means if the school decides to bring Bonfire back. If they do you can either choose to work with them or they will likely crush you. Maybe they do that overtly or maybe covertly. They have a lot of options and power but they aren't going to want a competing Bonfire. I agree that's not fair and it will piss off a lot of people but it's just reality.

The other reality is 90% of Aggies would rather have a school sponsored Bonfire that they can attend with the Band and the Yell Leaders and the Football Team. Most people do like the celebration and fun and don't want appreciate all the hard work involved in putting Bonfire on. It certainly means more to those the Build but even when it was On Campus for every person who Built you had 5 that didn't and showed up for Burn. I know that isn't what you want to hear either but the reality is most students now don't even know Student Bonfire exists and very few have worked on it. You can blame the school or you can blame the students or the former students or whomever.

You can also be upset with me for telling you the truth as well. You think that Student Bonfire has the power here and they don't. I've seen way too many battles like this be lost with the Corps to not understand how this goes. I've seen it with other organizations as well. All you are doing is taking yourself out of the process. If you think you can just draw a line in the sand and say, "Nope, the school didn't help us with Student Bonfire so they can't have it back" you couldn't be more wrong. Doesn't matter if that's fair or wrong, it's simply reality. Like I said if the folks from Student Bonfire were smart they would be fighting to have it brought back the right way and trying to lead the effort. That's something people can rally behind. Instead you will have people who don't give a damn about Student Bonfire in charge but you will have the chance to be pissed about it afterward.

Realistically, I don't see a path to bringing it on campus as there is inherent risk in every aspect. Kids can get hurt cutting, loading, moving, or stacking. For that matter, so can a contractor / construction worker. For me, it would have to start with the understanding/agreement of the importance of this being student led/built from start to burn.

I wasn't one of the individuals who dealt with the early conversations with the university, so I admit, those are the people who can best provide the answer to your question.

aggie93 said:

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The other reality is 90% of Aggies would rather have a school sponsored Bonfire that they can attend with the Band and the Yell Leaders and the Football Team.

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Citation needed. Has the university conducted an opinion poll?

Perhaps it's true for Aggies your age, but in my experience, I can't name a single '03er who cares more about Burn Night.

And do current students, unless involved in Student Bonfire, even think about the issue at all?

fightingfarmer09 said:

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aggie93 said:

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Agthatbuilds said:

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Sounds good. Students or nothing.

---

100% student run isn't realistic if the school is associated with it after the collapse. They have to have safety and engineering standards enforced because they will have the liability if something goes wrong.

---

Student Bonfire design was created by engineers. If I remember correctly early on it was even inspected.


100% students and student led.
Have a firm give the specs and inspect it periodically.

University officials can stand by and be invited to speak, but I'll let the students decide how involved.

---

I get that's what you want but the University has the liability and thus the power if they get involved. Considering the collapse it is entirely reasonable for them to maintain that ultimate control. Once again they have the real power as well.

The 100% student led aspect simply isn't realistic after the Collapse if the University is affiliated with it, not when you are talking about structure and safety. Students cutting down trees? Students haulting logs? Students wiring logs to Stack? Students being in charge of organization and Project Management? Sure. Students being able to decide safety standards, when and how to construct it or stop construction, etc.? No way the school can do that.

I think the disconnect is that you (and probably many others) believe that there is a way to "work with" the university.

The university has no grounds to sue. SB was very particular about making sure about this when organizing. It's one reason "Aggie Student Bonfire" dropped the Aggie part before organizing into a 501(c)3. In fact, the only reference to Texas A&M is the Aggie Bonfire semi trailer which was painted by the university, purchased by Dwight, and donated as painted.

The truth is, if the university is able to take the donors from SB the tradition of Bonfire dies.

One interesting point though is the Windle sticks are patented (or at least an attempt was made). If Texas A&M uses the idea, they'll have to acknowledge SB.

BonfireNerd04 said:

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aggie93 said:

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The other reality is 90% of Aggies would rather have a school sponsored Bonfire that they can attend with the Band and the Yell Leaders and the Football Team.

---

Citation needed. Has the university conducted an opinion poll?

Perhaps it's true for Aggies your age, but in my experience, I can't name a single '03er who cares more about Burn Night.

And do current students, unless involved in Student Bonfire, even think about the issue at all?

---

Of course very few people from '03 care more about Burn night. Burn night is not a big deal with Student Bonfire. There is no Band, Yell Leaders, Football Team, or all of the other production going on. There are a few thousand people in a field. They say a prayer and a speech. Then they light it and watch it burn.

Totally different experiences.

Students are in control of Student Bonfire now. Is that 100% set in stone to never change, no. If the university wants to hire a construction company to build one, you are right, they will. Is it keeping the tradition alive, no, it's not. Will people attend, sure.

Will the university go after students for keeping the tradition alive? I sure hope not. Going after fellow Aggies for taking all the risk and all the costs to keep a tradition and something that separates us from everyone else alive? Not saying it will not happen, but again, that would be a step further away from the university I love and support.

Your 90% figure I would say is inflated, but hey, until I see an actual polling of current and former students, I have no data to argue for or against. If that ever gets done, I hope it is done honestly with both sides of the argument presented and not just "hey, do you want to keep it offsite or would you rather have it on campus>"

Again, you are entitled to your opinion, and you may be right, this may all be the first shot fired in a salvo that ends up killing the Student Bonfire tradition. The only thing that "upsets" me is the fact there are people who would actively support killing the tradition (everything but the burn) just to have it on campus built by a construction company.

It will all come down to the current / former students here. Either it is important to us to keep a tradition alive which has already made massive changes/improvements to safety, or it is more important to scrap that so it can be on campus. I alone cannot stop anything, but we can call on those who care to do what we can to preserve Student Bonfire. Just one more thing to divide us where as our traditions used to be what united us.

I want to burn a big as fire because I have a burning desire to beat the hell outa TU. Way too much wining on this thread. Things change.

If anyone from the University is reading this thread I know lots of Ags from classes going back to the 60's to now who are all for a Bonfire back on campus however it might need to occur.

TexasRebel said:

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I think the disconnect is that you (and probably many others) believe that there is a way to "work with" the university.

The university has no grounds to sue. SB was very particular about making sure about this when organizing. It's one reason "Aggie Student Bonfire" dropped the Aggie part before organizing into a 501(c)3. In fact, the only reference to Texas A&M is the Aggie Bonfire semi trailer which was painted by the university, purchased by Dwight, and donated as painted.

The truth is, if the university is able to take the donors from SB the tradition of Bonfire dies.

One interesting point though is the Windle sticks are patented (or at least an attempt was made). If Texas A&M uses the idea, they'll have to acknowledge SB.

---

I don't know if there is a way to work with the University or not, I do think it is worth exploring again. It's a different environment than 20 years ago and the University has some incentive to bring Bonfire back now. They didn't back then.

As for how they could stop it if they wanted to, lawsuits are just one of many different ways they could. I don't like it or support it but I also don't underestimate the power of the school. if they want to be bullies they can crush SB in favor of whatever they want and it will be extremely difficult to stop them. That's why I would rather people try to work together instead of drawing lines in the sand. Maybe it's all going to be another nasty divisive battle again and it can't be avoided though.

We fixed the keg said:

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Students are in control of Student Bonfire now. Is that 100% set in stone to never change, no. If the university wants to hire a construction company to build one, you are right, they will. Is it keeping the tradition alive, no, it's not. Will people attend, sure.

Will the university go after students for keeping the tradition alive? I sure hope not. Going after fellow Aggies for taking all the risk and all the costs to keep a tradition and something that separates us from everyone else alive? Not saying it will not happen, but again, that would be a step further away from the university I love and support.

Your 90% figure I would say is inflated, but hey, until I see an actual polling of current and former students, I have no data to argue for or against. If that ever gets done, I hope it is done honestly with both sides of the argument presented and not just "hey, do you want to keep it offsite or would you rather have it on campus>"

Again, you are entitled to your opinion, and you may be right, this may all be the first shot fired in a salvo that ends up killing the Student Bonfire tradition. The only thing that "upsets" me is the fact there are people who would actively support killing the tradition (everything but the burn) just to have it on campus built by a construction company.

It will all come down to the current / former students here. Either it is important to us to keep a tradition alive which has already made massive changes/improvements to safety, or it is more important to scrap that so it can be on campus. I alone cannot stop anything, but we can call on those who care to do what we can to preserve Student Bonfire. Just one more thing to divide us where as our traditions used to be what united us.

---

The proof as to interest is you had 70k people attending Bonfire On Campus in the '90s with 45k students. Now you have a few thousand attend Student Bonfire with 75k students. Student Bonfire doesn't emphasize the Burn, it's basically an end of the quest accomplishment. Of that 70k or so students that went to Bonfire back in the day only some of them had worked on it and very few had worked on it in a significant way. Most went out to Cut once or twice or maybe hauled some logs at Stack.

The other proof is most students today barely even know Student Bonfire exists. I know many kids I talk to who are pretty involved and they have no clue about it. Most others see it almost like a club or student org. They don't see it as an integral part of being an Aggie and a deep representation of the Aggie Spirit. I'm sure some do but most who are involved seem to just love Bonfire itself and the project. That's great but it's just very different.

aggie93 said:

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TexasRebel said:

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I think the disconnect is that you (and probably many others) believe that there is a way to "work with" the university.

The university has no grounds to sue. SB was very particular about making sure about this when organizing. It's one reason "Aggie Student Bonfire" dropped the Aggie part before organizing into a 501(c)3. In fact, the only reference to Texas A&M is the Aggie Bonfire semi trailer which was painted by the university, purchased by Dwight, and donated as painted.

The truth is, if the university is able to take the donors from SB the tradition of Bonfire dies.

One interesting point though is the Windle sticks are patented (or at least an attempt was made). If Texas A&M uses the idea, they'll have to acknowledge SB.

---

I don't know if there is a way to work with the University or not, I do think it is worth exploring again. It's a different environment than 20 years ago and the University has some incentive to bring Bonfire back now. They didn't back then.

As for how they could stop it if they wanted to, lawsuits are just one of many different ways they could. I don't like it or support it but I also don't underestimate the power of the school. if they want to be bullies they can crush SB in favor of whatever they want and it will be extremely difficult to stop them. That's why I would rather people try to work together instead of drawing lines in the sand. Maybe it's all going to be another nasty divisive battle again and it can't be avoided though.

---

Sue for what?

redcrayon said:

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aggie93 said:

---

TexasRebel said:

---

I think the disconnect is that you (and probably many others) believe that there is a way to "work with" the university.

The university has no grounds to sue. SB was very particular about making sure about this when organizing. It's one reason "Aggie Student Bonfire" dropped the Aggie part before organizing into a 501(c)3. In fact, the only reference to Texas A&M is the Aggie Bonfire semi trailer which was painted by the university, purchased by Dwight, and donated as painted.

The truth is, if the university is able to take the donors from SB the tradition of Bonfire dies.

One interesting point though is the Windle sticks are patented (or at least an attempt was made). If Texas A&M uses the idea, they'll have to acknowledge SB.

---

I don't know if there is a way to work with the University or not, I do think it is worth exploring again. It's a different environment than 20 years ago and the University has some incentive to bring Bonfire back now. They didn't back then.

As for how they could stop it if they wanted to, lawsuits are just one of many different ways they could. I don't like it or support it but I also don't underestimate the power of the school. if they want to be bullies they can crush SB in favor of whatever they want and it will be extremely difficult to stop them. That's why I would rather people try to work together instead of drawing lines in the sand. Maybe it's all going to be another nasty divisive battle again and it can't be avoided though.

---

Sue for what?

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Not a lawyer. I would imagine a creative one can make life hell for the SB folks if they wanted to. They can also hurt them 100 different ways. SB getting openly hostile with the University is a very bad idea considering it relies on students in order to exist.

I don't like it but I also don't underestimate how ruthless the University can be if you want to FAFO. No one wins in that btw.

BonfireNerd04 said:

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Ag13 said:

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We fixed the keg said:

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Quote:

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some of these posters have seen the fight first hand and have zero faith/trust the university is interested in a good-faith effort

---

---

For the off campus bonfire folks - curious what would actually qualify as a good faith effort from the University for you? I understand that whether it's realistic and expected is a completely separate conversation

---

1. Assurance of student participation in any official Bonfire. I would be willing to concede to having a contractor take over parts of the process (e.g., the Brownpots' chainsaw duties), and to additional safety regulations, but the majority of Cut or Stack should be done by students.
2. An official apology for at least some of the university's actions in the aftermath of Collapse.

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Appreciate the reply.

I do agree it would be really silly and tragic to not involve students in a future on campus bonfire. I'm sure the level of participation will be very thoroughly debated, but clearly the University will have the ultimate deciding power there.

As far as the apology goes, based on your username it seems like you may have been involved in the brunt of the aftermath. Are you still involved now? It would seem to me no administrator from 99 era is still involved and probably not a lot of the bonfire crew - but not sure how it's structured. President Welsh and the Board of Regents could offer an apology for past actions but not sure if that would matter or be sufficient.

I'm an outsider to student bonfire, but would think an olive branch and apology is in effect being provided by offering to involve the student bonfire group in the future planning and execution of an on campus bonfire. I guess to be determined if they go down that route or not. Would sure hope they would instead of trying to cobble together an alternate group of students that want to start an alternate "official" bonfire student organization.

The alternate group and/or heavy participation by outside professionals is likely inevitable though if the University reaches out to the student bonfire group and gets an immediate cold shoulder on any offer of compromise.

Ag13 said:

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BonfireNerd04 said:

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Ag13 said:

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We fixed the keg said:

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Quote:

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some of these posters have seen the fight first hand and have zero faith/trust the university is interested in a good-faith effort

---

---

For the off campus bonfire folks - curious what would actually qualify as a good faith effort from the University for you? I understand that whether it's realistic and expected is a completely separate conversation

---

1. Assurance of student participation in any official Bonfire. I would be willing to concede to having a contractor take over parts of the process (e.g., the Brownpots' chainsaw duties), and to additional safety regulations, but the majority of Cut or Stack should be done by students.
2. An official apology for at least some of the university's actions in the aftermath of Collapse.

---

Appreciate the reply.

I do agree it would be really silly and tragic to not involve students in a future on campus bonfire. I'm sure the level of participation will be very thoroughly debated, but clearly the University will have the ultimate deciding power there.

As far as the apology goes, based on your username it seems like you may have been involved in the brunt of the aftermath. Are you still involved now? It would seem to me no administrator from 99 era is still involved and probably not a lot of the bonfire crew - but not sure how it's structured. President Welsh and the Board of Regents could offer an apology for past actions but not sure if that would matter or be sufficient.

I'm an outsider to student bonfire, but would think an olive branch and apology is in effect being provided by offering to involve the student bonfire group in the future planning and execution of an on campus bonfire. I guess to be determined if they go down that route or not. Would sure hope they would instead of trying to cobble together an alternate group of students that want to start an alternate "official" bonfire student organization.

The alternate group and/or heavy participation by outside professionals is likely inevitable though if the University reaches out to the student bonfire group and gets an immediate cold shoulder on any offer of compromise.

---

Excellent and reasoned post.

I think the university could improve the coverage of the tu game by allowing the team and band to appear at the SB site. Maybe provide buses for increased student participation and hear the coach& players speak.
Taking A&M vs tu once again BEYOND the PREMIER football clash in Texas up to hysterical levels of interest would be the object. Sales, man, sales.
I don't think the Polo Field is suitable, but A&M could work with SB.
How many students can the SB site safely hold?

We fixed the keg said:

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Quote:

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Once again, you aren't listening.

---

All due respect here, but I don't think you are listening. You have been clear your desire to bring it back on campus. You have also been clear you support the effort even if it involves changes a lot of posters do not want.

You made a comment about posters being "naive", but the problem with that statement is, some of these posters have seen the fight first hand and have zero faith/trust the university is interested in a good-faith effort. Yes, people have moved on, leadership has changed, but that does not mean things will unequivocally be different this time.

It is a fairly straight forward argument:

* If your main goal is to get it back on campus, it will have to be different. Student involvement will not be what it is today or what it was. If you want it on campus, you have to be OK with this fact

* If your main goal is to preserve the tradition of a student run and student built bonfire, it will not be allowed on campus and it will not have university involvement.

For some posters, me included, the desire to have it back on campus is not more important than the tradition of a student built bonfire. For others, it is.

It has been run successfully off campus for years and it is sad so many students and former students don't participate or attend, but again, things change. Do we really 'punish' those who have kept the tradition alive through hard work and sacrifice by stripping them of their involvement in favor of folks who haven't been a part of it?

ETA: "haven't been a part of it" referring to keeping it alive for the years after the tragedy.

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How is it 'punishment' for those who kept it going?? Big kudos to them. Not having it because they now run it seems silly. Even the off campus is different than what it used to be. Bonfire has never been the same and won't be....But that's not a reason to not have it. Its all opinions anyway. The Aggie family will have varying ideas about and if they bring it back, they can attend/not attend, complain or just appreciate it.

Rongagin71 said:

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I think the university could improve the coverage of the tu game by allowing the team and band to appear at the SB site. Maybe provide buses for increased student participation and hear the coach& players speak.
Taking A&M vs tu once again BEYOND the PREMIER football clash in Texas up to hysterical levels of interest would be the object. Sales, man, sales.
I don't think the Polo Field is suitable, but A&M could work with SB.
How many students can the SB site safely hold?

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The minute they have anything official affiliated with it they will end up taking on liability. No way the lawyers will let them do it partway like that. Just too much risk. It's either affiliated with the University or not.

BonfireNerd04 said:

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aggie93 said:

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The other reality is 90% of Aggies would rather have a school sponsored Bonfire that they can attend with the Band and the Yell Leaders and the Football Team.

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Citation needed. Has the university conducted an opinion poll?

Perhaps it's true for Aggies your age, but in my experience, I can't name a single '03er who cares more about Burn Night.

And do current students, unless involved in Student Bonfire, even think about the issue at all?

---

0% chance that 90% would support a Bonfire not built by students. I would guess well less 50%.

The idea that burn is the tradition that people support would be absolutely rejected by 90% of those class of 99 or earlier without a doubt. I can't see imagine the support would be over half from 2000 to current.

The whole idea that bonfire is just a yell practice with a fire in the background is crazy.

Hopefully this idea goes the way of the Stoops hire or the separate fish dorms in the Corps.

Quote:

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How is it 'punishment' for those who kept it going??

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If the hypothetical happens where the university has one done by a construction company dropping student involvement and then goes after the Student run bonfire to shut it down. The university turned its back on bonfire since the accident (and I am not saying they really had a choice in the immediate aftermath), but now they want it back. Call it what you want.

I agree, it is not the same today (nor will it ever be), but some hard working students and former students have done the best the can to keep it as close as they can. I think most will agree it is admirable what they have done. Some of us just happen to feel that it shouldn't be completely scrapped.

Ag13 said:

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As far as the apology goes, based on your username it seems like you may have been involved in the brunt of the aftermath

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Yep. Class of '04 = freshman in the year 2000. Only one year after Collapse.

So there were a lot of people around who had worked on Bonfire '99, including many of our sophomore advisors in Lechner. And Chad Powell's best friend from high school was a regular poster on Hobbes forums.

If you asked any upperclassman (actually, you didn't need to ask, just stand next to one for a minute), they'd say that Bonfire was awesome and that we '04ers were missing out. So, to make a long story short, when I got the opportunity to work on it (albeit in "renegade" form) as a senior, I seized it.

Ag13 said:

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Are you still involved now?

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Other than coming to every Burn and occasionally donating money, I haven't been involved in Student Bonfire for a few years. I'm just a random former student.

Ag13 said:

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I'm an outsider to student bonfire, but would think an olive branch and apology is in effect being provided by offering to involve the student bonfire group in the future planning and execution of an on campus bonfire. I guess to be determined if they go down that route or not.

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I agree that having Student Bonfire involved in this committee is a positive development. Maybe I'll end up pleasantly surprised at how this works out.

We need a Bonfire Who's Who.

The hidden value is what active participation produces. It also provides skills that most students would never gain otherwise.

Might be a C-Suite exec now, but if the wheel bearings are dry an old BOB will take care of it.

BonfireNerd04 said:

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If you asked any upperclassman (actually, you didn't need to ask, just stand next to one for a minute), they'd say that Bonfire was awesome and that we '04ers were missing out. So, to make a long story short, when I got the opportunity to work on it (albeit in "renegade" form) as a senior, I seized it.

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I have to wonder how many of these people that say it was awesome have never had the opportunity to do land management or run a burn pile. From my experience at Texas Agricultural & Mechanical..... a lot, not all, but a lot of students came from city environments. This is not meant to be an underhanded slap at the student body, but yeah, if I lived in Hawaii 100 feet from the beach, that would be awesome for a month. If I had lived there the first 18 years of my life.... eh... normal?

Hawk2007 said:

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This is not meant to be an underhanded slap at the student body, but yeah, if I lived in Hawaii 100 feet from the beach, that would be awesome for a month. If I had lived there the first 18 years of my life.... eh... normal?

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Do people who live in there take reverse vacations? Where they fly to the mainland on some dreary winter week, visit some random bland suburb, and shop at a Walmart, just to see how "normal" Americans live?

Hi again! Part of this disconnect is from the university quite literally blocking us from being able to connect with the students on campus. It starts with Fish Camp where counselors are basically sharing "anti-Bonfire" rhetoric from the get go, telling freshman not to join Student Bonfire or straight up saying it doesn't exist. Then there are the FLOs who do the same thing, and they're able to recruit on campus and do it with ease, yet they also push the "anti-Bonfire" rhetoric. Finally the university itself has stopped us multiple times from being on campus, whether it's taking down posters and information, having us move or completely removed if tabling, etc. I don't seem to see other students unaffiliated with an A&M org who set up tables and have political debates or other convos removed, and same with the on campus preachers. We have a great relationship with the local community through all of our service efforts and outreach, we're able to get in local newspapers, channels, have billboards, etc. But where it matters is campus, we're so restricted.

I've had the pleasure of making great friends who are fish camp chairs/counselors as well as FLO leadership, and I've learned that the anti-Bonfire rhetoric isn't pushed due to people knowing about it and thinking it's wrong, but rather years of misinformation being pushed and passed down. Once I'm able to have a conversation about what it's actually like, all of them seem to love it and want to help.

We don't want to draw lines in the sand with the University or fight them on anything, we're just tired of the University blocking us from all sides. Conversations between Bonfire and the University have been and still are occurring (reminder the only plan being pushed as of now is the construction company building stack plan, which is why it seems a lot of us are against the idea). We know what the university is capable of. We're just tired of being the ones that have carried on this tradition for years, cultivating a community and carrying on legacy, engineering an entirely new stack, just for a University who refuses to accept our presence to all of a sudden want to take it over. I know they can do it, it's just extremely frustrating.

**edit: In no way am I trying to be disrespectful or rude to you or anyone else by the way, I simply want to share the current students side of things & modern situation since I don't assume many really know it. I respect your opinion and appreciate your passion!

Off-topic, but from being from such a 'tech-savvy' generation I genuinely can not figure out how ya'll quote eachother's posts, I know there's a quote button but thats about it!

Anyways, you asked 'hows the punishment'? If you're genuinely interested in the current Uni-Student Bonfire relationship I talk a bit about it in a previous post!

rt1725 said:

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We don't want to draw lines in the sand with the University or fight them on anything, we're just tired of the University blocking us from all sides. Conversations between Bonfire and the University have been and still are occurring (reminder the only plan being pushed as of now is the construction company building stack plan, which is why it seems a lot of us are against the idea). We know what the university is capable. We're just tired of being the ones that have carried on this tradition for years, cultivating a community and carrying on legacy, engineering an entirely new stack, just for a University who refuses to accept our presence to all of a sudden want to take it over. I know they can do it, it's just extremely frustrating.

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This. A lot of Student Bonfire participants (current and former) are noticing "You've been against us for 22 years, but now it's suddenly important to have Bonfire back on campus?" and naturally being skeptical of the university's motives.

Out of curiosity, which crew are you with?

Thanks for your response! I joined Krueger (which is the dorm that absorbed McInnis & Moore so our crew and traditions are based on theirs) when I lived on campus and was a crew chief in '22. Just finished my time in UL as a Greenpot this past year (for those who don't know GP is a new army leadership position, sort of a "female equivalent" to Brownpots). Now I'm just a dead who hangs around Krueger and Lechner.