aggie93 said:

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P.H. Dexippus said:

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Look at these lame "purists" last year hoarding the tradition by getting to participate:

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I admire every one of them, I think it's great. I'd just like to have 10x that number of students involved even if they have to make a few changes. I'd also like it to be a bigger experience that has a much, much larger audience.

I don't understand why saying having it On Campus again automatically means you hate what current Student Bonfire does. I certainly have never said that.

---

The commercial version of bonfire is exactly what have people up in arms. Apparently, you want it for advertising purposes.

But, we all know that's never been the soul of bonfire, and if you remove the students, it will simply be a bunch of people hanging our round a campfire. Might as well sell smores for 20 bucks a pop.

Ag_of_08 said:

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I've been to multiple on campus bonfires, have a shoebox full of ashes and a scar on my right hand from collecting them from '98.

Burn was and is a small part of the tradition. It's a big party at the end of a massive STUDENT LEAD AND BUILT project. Chopping it off at the knees undermines and destroys the actual tradition and replaces it with a bad facsimile for people to make believe at.

Bonfire is a student lead, student built, student run tradition. If you take that away, you've destroyed what made it special.

---

Once again I'm not advocating for students to not be involved. I want students to be involved as much as possible. Were you Class of '08 btw? How did you know what it was like to Build Bonfire when it was On Campus?

We fixed the keg said:

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Agthatbuilds said:

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Crocker cocks, hard as rocks

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I have made my peace with the fact it will never be the same, but it still makes me sad to think about the full experience students are missing out on.

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Isn't this a microcosm of modern life? People are becoming more disconnected by the day. The things we all did and enjoyed as kids are very different or non-existent for this generation.

Not saying it's right or wrong. It just is.

And I've asked you this in prior posts on this topic. Where on campus do you plan to have Burn?

TexasRebel said:

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If it's on campus, you will have exactly 0% student participation.

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Is that because you don't think the school will allow it or you think 75k students just won't want to be involved? I disagree with either point.

If all it ends up being is a contractor built Bonfire with no students involved I agree that's not something worth doing. We don't know what is being proposed or what is realistic. All we know is what they wouldn't do 20 plus years ago and what we have now.

I honestly think some of you would be disappointed even if you had a Student Run Bonfire On Campus that meets 99% of the conditions you want. Maybe that is anger over what happened 20 years ago when the school said no or how they haven't supported Student Bonfire for a dozen reasons. Maybe that is because you fear loss of control of what it might be. Maybe it is simply you want Bonfire to be purely about a relatively small group of students building a fire and don't care about either of the 2 main reasons Bonfire was created, Bringing Aggies together and showing their Desire to Beat the Hell Outta tu.

I also don't understand how saying Burn was a tiny part of the experience. I think you can certainly say it wasn't what it was all about or even how it was not what mattered to you the most. I know to folks who were Redpots (some of which are still friends of mine and were Redpots when it was On Campus) certainly thought that Build was what it was all about and were almost sad at Burn because it meant they had to wait until the next year to go Build it again. That wasn't the experience for most Aggies though. If you just want it to be about maximizing the experience for the small number of very involved students and devalue everything else then I guess that's ok too, I just disagree.

To me bringing Bonfire back On Campus is one of the few things that could heal a lot of old wounds and bring current Aggies together, maybe starting to reverse the tide of becoming UT-College Station which we seem to be more and more every day.

It doesn't matter what I think.

The words were spoken by the admin.

If Bonfire is ever to burn on campus there will be no student involvement. They didn't stutter. They didn't leave a door ajar.

You're assuming burning on campus wasn't the #1 priority 25 years ago. Stop assuming.

A1_Ag_95 said:

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And I've asked you this in prior posts on this topic. Where on campus do you plan to have Burn?

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I think the Polo Fields is the probably the only logical place, it's the only area large enough.. The problem is the soil so they will likely have to erect a permanent concrete structure for Centerpole or make a permanent Centerpole. Centerpole and the soil are the 2 biggest safety issues with Bonfire. Obviously doing a Bonfire similar to the one Off Campus now would also be safer instead of the Wedding Cake where you had multiple stacks that don't touch the ground. No doubt there will be a variety of other safety measures that will have to happen as well, some of which will upset people.

One added bonus to having it as Polo is it is right next to the Engineering complex so you can encourage more involvement from them as are the Construction Science folks.

The actual design of Bonfire has never been consistent though, we have had it done so many different ways now it's hard to count. Used to be on Duncan when I started at A&M then moved to Polo. Was on Spence when my Dad was in school.

aggie93 said:

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Ag_of_08 said:

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I've been to multiple on campus bonfires, have a shoebox full of ashes and a scar on my right hand from collecting them from '98.

Burn was and is a small part of the tradition. It's a big party at the end of a massive STUDENT LEAD AND BUILT project. Chopping it off at the knees undermines and destroys the actual tradition and replaces it with a bad facsimile for people to make believe at.

Bonfire is a student lead, student built, student run tradition. If you take that away, you've destroyed what made it special.

---

Once again I'm not advocating for students to not be involved. I want students to be involved as much as possible. Were you Class of '08 btw? How did you know what it was like to Build Bonfire when it was On Campus?

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I've had relatives on campus since '79. I promise you she would agree with me as well.

TexasRebel said:

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It doesn't matter what I think.

The words were spoken by the admin.

If Bonfire is ever to burn on campus there will be no student involvement. They didn't stutter. They didn't leave a door ajar.

You're assuming burning on campus wasn't the #1 priority 25 years ago. Stop assuming.

---

There are probably no people left from the Admin from 20 years ago at this point. I also never said that burning on campus wasn't the priority then. There was just zero chance of it happening with a full blown investigation under way, a MASSIVE PR problem, and a long list of costly lawsuits being engaged against the University. That report that came out was shocking to me when I realized I had spent so much time at Stack and not realizing just how brazen they had been with safety, I had always assumed they had Engineers looking over the plans and the Stack every day. Instead it was basically a group of Redpots, most of which weren't even studying Engineering, just doing what they thought was best.

Now 25 years have passed. Student Bonfire has shown that the old culture of Bonfire could be cleaned up with the drinking and horseplay. Safety being put first is key. That's why I would much rather the Student Bonfire folks be a part of the solution instead of fighting it all tooth and nail. In the end if you don't like what it becomes you can still do your own Bonfire and my guess is some will because they want it to be a certain way.

I'll never forget talking to my Yell Leader Dad about Bonfire and if they had Redpots back in his Day and he just laughed, he never understood the Bonfire organizational structure that came long after he had left. It was just strange to him.

Ag_of_08 said:

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aggie93 said:

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Ag_of_08 said:

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I've been to multiple on campus bonfires, have a shoebox full of ashes and a scar on my right hand from collecting them from '98.

Burn was and is a small part of the tradition. It's a big party at the end of a massive STUDENT LEAD AND BUILT project. Chopping it off at the knees undermines and destroys the actual tradition and replaces it with a bad facsimile for people to make believe at.

Bonfire is a student lead, student built, student run tradition. If you take that away, you've destroyed what made it special.

---

Once again I'm not advocating for students to not be involved. I want students to be involved as much as possible. Were you Class of '08 btw? How did you know what it was like to Build Bonfire when it was On Campus?

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I've had relatives on campus since '79. I promise you she would agree with me as well.

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That's fine but it means you had no personal experience with a Bonfire Build On Campus. As I mentioned my Dad was Head Yell in the '50s and I went to a bunch of Bonfires prior to going to A&M, worked on it all 4 years at A&M, and have attended Student Bonfire and other Rebel Bonfires before Student Bonfire got off the ground.

Student Bonfire likely means more to you because that was your experience in school and that's fine. I'm glad you could have that experience. It's just different. I completely understand why someone who has a main experience of Student Bonfire would see the Burn as minor. Student Bonfire Burn doesn't have anyone really from the school there, it's a few thousand people in a field with an invocation and speech and then they light it. No football team or coaches. No band. No Yell Leaders. I remember the lump in my throat hearing the Band play as the Redpots carried the torches ready to light it up, Student Bonfire Burn is almost anticlimactic and somber. It's just different.

aggie93 said:

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There are probably no people left from the Admin from 20 years ago at this point.

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You'd be surprised.

Even if they are all gone it just means there's a new round of folks trying to take Bonfire away from the students.

TexasRebel said:

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aggie93 said:

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There are probably no people left from the Admin from 20 years ago at this point.

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You'd be surprised.

Even if they are all gone it just means there's a new round of folks trying to take Bonfire away from the students.

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Isn't CRotter still around?

Tamu still lists CRotter, yes.

I say bring it back to campus, let the students go to cut, let them load, let them stack*

*In order to guarantee the stack won't collapse ever again, there must be some type of steel frame which gets anchored into the ground to hold the logs in place.. ideally, this steel frame would "go away" during burn to allow the logs to fall, leaving nothing standing. Maybe pins are removed from afar, letting the steel support structure to fold onto itself.

AggieZUUL said:

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I say bring it back to campus, let the students go to cut, let them load, let them stack*

*In order to guarantee the stack won't collapse ever again, there must be some type of steel frame which gets anchored into the ground to hold the logs in place.. ideally, this steel frame would "go away" during burn to allow the logs to fall, leaving nothing standing. Maybe pins are removed from afar, letting the steel support structure to fold onto of itself.

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Maybe a wooden structure that burns up, too?

aggie93 said:

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A1_Ag_95 said:

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And I've asked you this in prior posts on this topic. Where on campus do you plan to have Burn?

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I think the Polo Fields is the probably the only logical place, it's the only area large enough.. The problem is the soil so they will likely have to erect a permanent concrete structure for Centerpole or make a permanent Centerpole. Centerpole and the soil are the 2 biggest safety issues with Bonfire. Obviously doing a Bonfire similar to the one Off Campus now would also be safer instead of the Wedding Cake where you had multiple stacks that don't touch the ground. No doubt there will be a variety of other safety measures that will have to happen as well, some of which will upset people.

One added bonus to having it as Polo is it is right next to the Engineering complex so you can encourage more involvement from them as are the Construction Science folks.

The actual design of Bonfire has never been consistent though, we have had it done so many different ways now it's hard to count. Used to be on Duncan when I started at A&M then moved to Polo. Was on Spence when my Dad was in school.

---

Good luck with that. I share this quote from an older post.

Quote:

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FtnTXAg03:

I can't expect that everyone would vibe with all these and more lofty considerations of something that so few have ever availed themselves of the opportunity to fully and truly experience. Which is okay. So maybe - hopefully - we can consider the plain practicalities. Over 30 years ago, as the University pivoted on so many other fronts, most for the better, Bonfire was moved from Duncan Field in front of the President's house to "anywhere else". Aggie students were offered a small handful of options...

• A soft drainpan for one of the nation's largest campuses, a now-tragic swath known as the "Polo Fields." This was the only spot on campus not spoken for three decades ago.
• A spot on the Riverside Campus. An area now occupied - moreso every day - by incredible work, including valuable and impressive and top secret R&D that we should all be proud of. Bonfire would have been moved again from there long ago.
• A piece toward Carlos, TX. This has been described as "the best dirt for Bonfire". But it was off campus. Its only fault. A few fractions of degrees latitude and longitude.

The best place the University had to offer 30 YEARS AGO was off campus. With all the growth since, there can only be less room today.

---

TexasRebel said:

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aggie93 said:

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There are probably no people left from the Admin from 20 years ago at this point.

---

You'd be surprised.

Even if they are all gone it just means there's a new round of folks trying to take Bonfire away from the students.

---

Well if it might be hard and involve a fight I guess we should just not even try.

I have no illusions that this is all rainbows and unicorns, I just think it is worth an effort. There was no chance 20-25 years ago that Bonfire was coming back to campus for the reasons I brought up. It's a new situation now. In some ways that may be easier and in some ways harder, don't know. I just am a supporter and if there is a chance I think it is worth the effort.

There were people that have wanted to shut down Bonfire as long as there has been a Bonfire, they certainly want you to give up and fight those who want it back On Campus. You are helping them more than anything they could do or say.

The fight was 22 years ago.

Their solution was almost to kick a bunch of us out of school.

A1_Ag_95 said:

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aggie93 said:

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A1_Ag_95 said:

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And I've asked you this in prior posts on this topic. Where on campus do you plan to have Burn?

---

I think the Polo Fields is the probably the only logical place, it's the only area large enough.. The problem is the soil so they will likely have to erect a permanent concrete structure for Centerpole or make a permanent Centerpole. Centerpole and the soil are the 2 biggest safety issues with Bonfire. Obviously doing a Bonfire similar to the one Off Campus now would also be safer instead of the Wedding Cake where you had multiple stacks that don't touch the ground. No doubt there will be a variety of other safety measures that will have to happen as well, some of which will upset people.

One added bonus to having it as Polo is it is right next to the Engineering complex so you can encourage more involvement from them as are the Construction Science folks.

The actual design of Bonfire has never been consistent though, we have had it done so many different ways now it's hard to count. Used to be on Duncan when I started at A&M then moved to Polo. Was on Spence when my Dad was in school.

---

Good luck with that. I share this quote from an older post.

Quote:

---

FtnTXAg03:

I can't expect that everyone would vibe with all these and more lofty considerations of something that so few have ever availed themselves of the opportunity to fully and truly experience. Which is okay. So maybe - hopefully - we can consider the plain practicalities. Over 30 years ago, as the University pivoted on so many other fronts, most for the better, Bonfire was moved from Duncan Field in front of the President's house to "anywhere else". Aggie students were offered a small handful of options...

• A soft drainpan for one of the nation's largest campuses, a now-tragic swath known as the "Polo Fields." This was the only spot on campus not spoken for three decades ago.
• A spot on the Riverside Campus. An area now occupied - moreso every day - by incredible work, including valuable and impressive and top secret R&D that we should all be proud of. Bonfire would have been moved again from there long ago.
• A piece toward Carlos, TX. This has been described as "the best dirt for Bonfire". But it was off campus. Its only fault. A few fractions of degrees latitude and longitude.

The best place the University had to offer 30 YEARS AGO was off campus. With all the growth since, there can only be less room today.

---

---

So the Polo Fields is still the best On Campus Option even based on your post. As mentioned the soil is the issue so there are ways to solve that, most likely with a permanent concrete base and possibly Centerpole.

There is no easy button though. I would still rather it be school sanctioned as well if it did have to be Off Campus but that would be a real bummer. It's a very different feel off campus and part of what I loved about November when I was in school was watching Stack build every day as I walked or drove by it and thought about trying to find some time to go work on it when I could.

Again, concrete doesn't work like that.

aggie93 said:

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So the Polo Fields is still the best On Campus Option even based on your post. As mentioned the soil is the issue so there are ways to solve that, most likely with a permanent concrete base and possibly Centerpole.

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Really? Let's bring it back and build it right next to the site where 12 died? Talk about some bad PR optics.

That area is still a major drainage area.

aggie93 said:

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Well if it might be hard and involve a fight I guess we should just not even try.

---

What does '93 know about fighting?

TBH, back when I was a student, I kinda hated 1990's graduates (though Old Ags from the '60s and '70s were cool). Because when our generation was struggling to figure out how to keep the on-campus community together after the loss of its largest tradition (and 12 of our upperclassmen) and an increasingly risk-paranoid administration, many of y'all had a callous attitude of "we had our fun; sucks to be you."

You know who actually understands "it might be hard"? This ragtag group of 200 Aggies back in the fall of 2002 calling themselves "Unity Project", with hardly any money, who were threatened with being fired from their campus jobs, whose classmates dismissed their efforts as "not real Bonfire", who decided to defy all the naysayers and take Bonfire into their own hands.

I regret that I wasn't involved in this first off-campus Bonfire. But I was heavily involved in the second, third, and fourth.

aggie93 said:

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TexasRebel said:

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If it's on campus, you will have exactly 0% student participation.

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Is that because you don't think the school will allow it or you think 75k students just won't want to be involved? I disagree with either point.

If all it ends up being is a contractor built Bonfire with no students involved I agree that's not something worth doing. We don't know what is being proposed or what is realistic. All we know is what they wouldn't do 20 plus years ago and what we have now.

---

if you read the article, that is exactly what is being proposed.

Quote:

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Sources close to the discussions told the Tribune that Bellinger has proposed that a construction company come in to build the bonfire.

---

BonfireNerd04 said:

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aggie93 said:

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Well if it might be hard and involve a fight I guess we should just not even try.

---

What does '93 know about fighting?

TBH, back when I was a student, I kinda hated 1990's graduates (though Old Ags from the '60s and '70s were cool). Because when our generation was struggling to figure out how to keep the on-campus community together after the loss of its largest tradition (and 12 of our upperclassmen) and an increasingly risk-paranoid administration, many of y'all had a callous attitude of "we had our fun; sucks to be you."

You know who actually understands "it might be hard"? This ragtag group of 200 Aggies back in the fall of 2002 calling themselves "Unity Project", with hardly any money, who were threatened with being fired from their campus jobs, whose classmates dismissed their efforts as "not real Bonfire", who decided to defy all the naysayers and take Bonfire into their own hands.

I regret that I wasn't involved in this first off-campus Bonfire. But I was heavily involved in the second, third, and fourth.

---

This sounds like a lot of really strange projection but ok. Most of the '90s folks were fairly early in our careers and starting families when Bonfire fell. Virtually none were in a position of power. Ultimately those "cool" Ags from the '60s and '70s are who made the decisions you disliked so much along with Ray Bowen who was '58.

If you don't want it back on campus and want it to remain a small event that 90% of Aggies will never see or participate in so be it.

A1_Ag_95 said:

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aggie93 said:

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So the Polo Fields is still the best On Campus Option even based on your post. As mentioned the soil is the issue so there are ways to solve that, most likely with a permanent concrete base and possibly Centerpole.

---

Really? Let's bring it back and build it right next to the site where 12 died? Talk about some bad PR optics.

That area is still a major drainage area.

---

As long as it is done respectfully I don't see a problem with it being next to the Memorial, those 12 loved Bonfire and certainly wouldn't want it to go away.

As for the soil issue I'm not an Engineer but I do know it is a solvable problem. Maybe that's a drainage system. Maybe that's a permanent platform or Centerpole. We have some very smart people at our school and I think we can figure it out should we choose to.

Ellis Wyatt said:

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We fixed the keg said:

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Agthatbuilds said:

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Crocker cocks, hard as rocks

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I have made my peace with the fact it will never be the same, but it still makes me sad to think about the full experience students are missing out on.

---

Isn't this a microcosm of modern life? People are becoming more disconnected by the day. The things we all did and enjoyed as kids are very different or non-existent for this generation.

Not saying it's right or wrong. It just is.

---

It really is. I have two nephews currently on campus and every part of their experience is different than mine in the early 90's. Things change, that is just how it goes. I would even be willing to concede a higher percentage than I would like to acknowledge would be in support of a university led/built on campus bonfire. I just look at it through a much different lens. Being student led and student built was what made it, and continues to make it, special.

To me, that aspect is the true purpose. The hard work and sacrifice, the blistered hands, sore muscles, and dedication to the effort embodied what it is to be an Aggie. As such, it is my opinion, anything to further dilute the tradition simply because of location is the wrong answer. If I am in the minority, so be it, but it is how I feel.

What happens if the university moves forward with plans and those plans reduce student input and involvement? Do those students that worked so hard to keep a student led and built bonfire continue their offsite bonfire and now you have two with a divided student body?

TexasAggie_02 said:

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aggie93 said:

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TexasRebel said:

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If it's on campus, you will have exactly 0% student participation.

---

Is that because you don't think the school will allow it or you think 75k students just won't want to be involved? I disagree with either point.

If all it ends up being is a contractor built Bonfire with no students involved I agree that's not something worth doing. We don't know what is being proposed or what is realistic. All we know is what they wouldn't do 20 plus years ago and what we have now.

---

if you read the article, that is exactly what is being proposed.

Quote:

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Sources close to the discussions told the Tribune that Bellinger has proposed that a construction company come in to build the bonfire.

---

---

That's a vague report and part of why folks from Student Bonfire should get involved. Which Construction company is doing it and how they go about it also makes a huge difference. Would they be supervising it and keeping it safe or would they be doing all of the construction? Don't know. Will it be modified and adjusted? Don't know.

Instead a lot of folks seem to want to let the University just do whatever and not be involved and then have their own Bonfire Off Campus. The University has the power to do what it wants. I will say if there is an On Campus Bonfire and folks still do an Off Campus Bonfire that sounds like a craptastic solution and I don't know who is more at fault. I likely wouldn't be interested in either at that point.

If it comes back to campus with student involvement, get ready for a 5' tall pile of stacked pallets and drone show, just like Baylor. Students could build it in the parking lot of Reed Arena about 30 minutes before burn. Surely some lifelong friendships and memories will be formed from that effort. That's be swell "compromise" and really unite the Aggie community.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=907768270175701
https://homecoming.web.baylor.edu/main-events/extravaganza-pep-rally-and-bonfire



Or we could have the real deal off campus. Best thing the school could do would be just allow unofficial participation by yell leaders, the team and cadets without the sanctimonious lecturing and threats.

aggie93 said:

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A1_Ag_95 said:

---

aggie93 said:

---

So the Polo Fields is still the best On Campus Option even based on your post. As mentioned the soil is the issue so there are ways to solve that, most likely with a permanent concrete base and possibly Centerpole.

---

Really? Let's bring it back and build it right next to the site where 12 died? Talk about some bad PR optics.

That area is still a major drainage area.

---

As long as it is done respectfully I don't see a problem with it being next to the Memorial, those 12 loved Bonfire and certainly wouldn't want it to go away.

As for the soil issue I'm not an Engineer but I do know it is a solvable problem. Maybe that's a drainage system. Maybe that's a permanent platform or Centerpole. We have some very smart people at our school and I think we can figure it out should we choose to.

---

Sounds like Elon Musk got a TexAgs handle.

"I don't care what the engineers say. We can do it if we want to bad enough!"

NO to on-campus. That ship has sailed. There is no space to use that would not prompt howls of protest from the capital projects folks, save the Polo Fields. And we are NOT doing the Polo Fields. No.

As well, consider what happens with the suits in the room. They will insist that owning ALL rights to the project, including the terms "Bonfire," "Burn," and "Cut." That is all the leverage needed to kill the project permanently at some point, off-campus or not: sue 'em all for copyright infringement.

The less the administration is involved, the better.

Tangent: is Student Bonfire a nonprofit organization a la 501(c)3?

Quote:

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That area is still a major drainage area.

---

I know this is major arm-chair-quarterbacking, but I still believe had bonfire remained on the original drill field spot, it wouldn't have collapsed. That ground was as hard as concrete.

Bison said:

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NO to on-campus. That ship has sailed. There is no space to use that would not prompt howls of protest from the capital projects folks, save the Polo Fields. And we are NOT doing the Polo Fields. No.

As well, consider what happens with the suits in the room. They will insist that owning ALL rights to the project, including the terms "Bonfire," "Burn," and "Cut." That is all the leverage needed to kill the project permanently at some point, off-campus or not: sue 'em all for copyright infringement.

The less the administration is involved, the better.

Tangent: is Student Bonfire a nonprofit organization a la 501(c)3?

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Yes

TexasRebel said:

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Bison said:

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Tangent: is Student Bonfire a nonprofit organization a la 501(c)3?

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Yes

---

So I take it to be the case that they have an endowment with reserves, and carry insurance (including, I'm guessing but maybe inaccurately, a subrogation clause for the school)?

Student Bonfire has nothing to do with Texas A&M.

We fixed the keg said:

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Quote:

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That area is still a major drainage area.

---

I know this is major arm-chair-quarterbacking, but I still believe had bonfire remained on the original drill field spot, it wouldn't have collapsed. That ground was as hard as concrete.

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It was never a drill field, more like an inter mural or PT field.