I'm a current student and was apart of Student Bonfire leadership (focusing on graduating so I'm not as up to speed on everything like I use to be). I think part of the problem is no one knows what WE are thinking or feeling. That article didn't seem to paint us in the best light. It didn't even seem to interview a student. I can't speak on the exact details of the situation, but I can certainly say that we aren't opposed to having a discussion. I'm pretty sure there's been conversations with the university, or at least they're trying to begin them.
There's certainly effort to have a discussion and keep an open mind. I personally would love for all Aggies to be able to participate in and experience Bonfire. I'm just worried about it turning into something completely different than what it is was and what we brought it back to be.
You seem to think that if it's on campus students can be involved. In no uncertain terms, the admin has made it known, they cannot.
When I was involved with OCAB leadership, we did everything we could to work with what was left of the administration that would even acknowledge we existed.
For a few years, just to keep up appearances they let a pitiful excuse for a student organization take the Bonfire name and run it through campus with a mini-stack on a garden trailer. (Was a bit ironic that the keeper lived between a JRP & BOB).
Texas A&M made it very clear to us that Texas A&M not only, didn't want Bonfire, but was ready to fight its own students to extinguish the tradition.
Not really. There's no reason they can't bring it back and just take additional precautions, which is what they should have done in the first place.
Completely false. As someone involved with leadership Student Bonfire/Unity Project 2002, it was recognized from Day 1 that if Bonfire were to ever return to campus, it would only be a hollow shell of its former self due to the liability concerns.
It would not be student cut, student load, student stack, student lead. Which is the whole point of the endeavor. The pep rally at the end, Burn, is not what builds the comradery, leadership skills and memories. I would rather it stay off campus forever than come back just as another over-produced tradition exploited by powers that be (see our football gameday experience).
FYI- if all you care about is the Burn, you can still see it each year just a short drive from campus.
I know you are a proponent of student bonfire off campus, but no matter how much you want it to be it isn't the same. I commend their efforts and keeping it alive on some form though.
I don't understand the liability. make the student sign a notarized waiver before they are allowed to work on cut and/or stack.
I'm no lawyer (gladly because most lawyers are not even close to the IQ of Aggie Engineers) but you can't waive neglect. Many contracts have you sign a waiver but it's all bluff. Worthless! If a company is negligent signed waivers mean nothing. I know there are smart lawyers but the last 12 I've met were of very average intelligence and I knew infinitely more about the topic I asked them about.
You seem to think that if it's on campus students can be involved. In no uncertain terms, the admin has made it known, they cannot.
When I was involved with OCAB leadership, we did everything we could to work with what was left of the administration that would even acknowledge we existed.
For a few years, just to keep up appearances they let a pitiful excuse for a student organization take the Bonfire name and run it through campus with a mini-stack on a garden trailer. (Was a bit ironic that the keeper lived between a JRP & BOB).
Texas A&M made it very clear to us that Texas A&M not only, didn't want Bonfire, but was ready to fight its own students to extinguish the tradition.
A lot of time has passed since then. They sure as hell weren't even going to consider it with the tragedy fresh in mind and with lawsuits pending. Different world now and worth trying again, that's my point. If it fails so be it but I don't see much harm in trying, especially if there is support on BOR.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."
I'm a current student and was apart of Student Bonfire leadership (focusing on graduating so I'm not as up to speed on everything like I use to be). I think part of the problem is no one knows what WE are thinking or feeling. That article didn't seem to paint us in the best light. It didn't even seem to interview a student. I can't speak on the exact details of the situation, but I can certainly say that we aren't opposed to having a discussion. I'm pretty sure there's been conversations with the university, or at least they're trying to begin them.
There's certainly effort to have a discussion and keep an open mind. I personally would love for all Aggies to be able to participate in and experience Bonfire. I'm just worried about it turning into something completely different than what it is was and what we brought it back to be.
Appreciate your perspective and admire you for putting in the work on Bonfire!
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."
I don't know how anyone who attended an On Campus Bonfire can think Student Bonfire is remotely the same though. It's nice a few Yell Leaders and maybe a football player or two sneaks over but once again that is a pale shadow of what it was. For me I loved seeing the guy or girl from class who knew nothing about Bonfire and never went to cut come out to Burn on campus and be blown away by the experience. That tied them to those of us who grew up with it and helped to instill that love of A&M. Some of those may have even helped out the next year. All of them walked away with a sense of pride in being an Aggie. That was what was so valuable to me.
With all due respect, I think that you fail to appreciate that "anyone who attended an On Campus Bonfire" is a dwindling minority of the Aggie community. For the classes of 2004 (Whoop!) through 2027 -- that's 24 years, "Bonfire" has only existed as a renegade off-campus organization.
I would have liked to have seen an on-campus Burn. I actually did get to see Stack under construction during a weekend visit to campus in my last year of high school. I had contemplated coming to Burn, but...well, you know.
You are literally making my point for me. Most folks who have worked on Student Bonfire have no concept of the spectacle of On Campus Bonfire. We are much, much bigger now than we were then as well. If they had an On Campus Bonfire they would easily have 100k there. Most students today don't even know we have a Student Bonfire much less have ever worked on it or gone to it.
I mean my last Bonfire as a student RC Slocum gave our Outfit the Game Ball and we did 3 circles around the Bonfire and then ran it the 93 miles to deliver it in Austin running in relays. I don't even know how to describe that experience to a current student.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."
Not really. There's no reason they can't bring it back and just take additional precautions, which is what they should have done in the first place.
Completely false. As someone involved with leadership of Student Bonfire/Unity Project 2002, it was recognized from Day 1 that if Bonfire were to ever return to campus, it would only be a hollow shell of its former self due to the liability concerns.
It would not be student cut, student load, student stack, student lead. Which is the whole point of the endeavor. The pep rally at the end, Burn, is not what builds the comradery, leadership skills and memories. I would rather it stay off campus forever than come back just as another over-produced tradition exploited by the powers that be (see our football gameday experience).
FYI- if all you care about is the Burn, you can still see it each year just a short drive from campus. And it is worth the drive.
Yeah, so exactly what I just said. They could take additional precautions, like not letting students have any meaningful role in engineering and building it. Out of the entire student body, how many students actually work on it? Not that many.
They could very easily have a bonfire on campus if they wanted to. I'm sure there are a few bonfire "purists" like you who will complain about the lack of student involvement and anything else they do to change it from how it used to be, but most students and most former students at this point won't give two ****s about that. I certainly won't. There's no reason to spitefully try and keep it off campus just because it won't be as student-involved as you want it to be.
Can you just imagine trying to insure bonfire for liability? If you could even find someone willing cover it the cost would be insane. Everyone working on it would need to sign away all liability.
I wonder how the 12 families feel about this news.
I don't see any reason why that would or should matter one way or the other.
Maybe because it would be deeply disrespectful to just bring bonfire back to campus without running it by them? Is it so hard to be a decent human being?
I wonder how the 12 families feel about this news.
I don't see any reason why that would or should matter one way or the other.
Maybe because it would be deeply disrespectful to just bring bonfire back to campus without running it by them? Is it so hard to be a decent human being?
I do not see why it would be in any way disrespectful to bring it back without consulting them. They don't make policy for the university and its on campus affairs. Setting aside any kind of weird emotional thing you have going on over this, can you explain in rational terms how and why it would be disrespectful? They and their kids have basically been honored more than anyone associated with A&M for the past 25 years and will continue to be.
I don't mean this rudely, but as a current student and Student Bonfire member/ex-leadership, the students do care. The thing that interests people to get involved with our build is the fact that we build it ourselves from scratch. While there aren't nearly as many who work on ours as there were in the 90s and before (mainly due to the university strongly discouraging us promoting/recruiting on campus), all of those students want to build it. If bonfire were to be moved on campus, we would want to build it, not see it built by some other outside source.
Bonfire represented the burning desire to beat the hell outta tu because the effort and leadership of the students involved. The cuts and build of the fire the important part if the tradition. The actual burn was like a graduation ceremony. It only meant something because of the work put in to get there.
A Bonfire built by a contractor would simply represent a University with more money than sense. Why would you attend a graduation ceremony for someone who never went to school
I attended last year's Student Bonfire. I loved talking to and just watching current students who put in the work to build that fire. Watching it burn was not much different than watching my fireplace. The excitement and accomplishment of those who put the entire event together was inspiring. They deserve to supported. A truly great student organization.
Haven't read the thread but with the internet, social media, and the morons they've created, the outcry from the environmentalists would be deafening. No way this happens under the university umbrella.
Bonfire will probably not come back as a student led event. It might very well come back as a professionally built structure to stand around while it burns. Because of liability concerns, it will only be a shell of its former shelf. I would rather it stay off campus to minizine meddling from our admins and board of regents.
You seem to think that if it's on campus students can be involved. In no uncertain terms, the admin has made it known, they cannot.
When I was involved with OCAB leadership, we did everything we could to work with what was left of the administration that would even acknowledge we existed.
For a few years, just to keep up appearances they let a pitiful excuse for a student organization take the Bonfire name and run it through campus with a mini-stack on a garden trailer. (Was a bit ironic that the keeper lived between a JRP & BOB).
Texas A&M made it very clear to us that Texas A&M not only, didn't want Bonfire, but was ready to fight its own students to extinguish the tradition.
A lot of time has passed since then. They sure as hell weren't even going to consider it with the tragedy fresh in mind and with lawsuits pending. Different world now and worth trying again, that's my point. If it fails so be it but I don't see much harm in trying, especially if there is support on BOR.
You seem to think that if it's on campus students can be involved. In no uncertain terms, the admin has made it known, they cannot.
When I was involved with OCAB leadership, we did everything we could to work with what was left of the administration that would even acknowledge we existed.
For a few years, just to keep up appearances they let a pitiful excuse for a student organization take the Bonfire name and run it through campus with a mini-stack on a garden trailer. (Was a bit ironic that the keeper lived between a JRP & BOB).
Texas A&M made it very clear to us that Texas A&M not only, didn't want Bonfire, but was ready to fight its own students to extinguish the tradition.
A lot of time has passed since then. They sure as hell weren't even going to consider it with the tragedy fresh in mind and with lawsuits pending. Different world now and worth trying again, that's my point. If it fails so be it but I don't see much harm in trying, especially if there is support on BOR.
The harm would be killing an Aggie tradition.
You can't see that, but you're playing checkers.
How? If it is that terrible it will go back to being what it is now. My guess is some hardcore folks will want to keep doing Student Bonfire regardless because even if they got 99% of what they wanted they still won't think it is Bonfire. They can't stop it anymore than they did before or are doing now.
If it works though it would be awesome to have it back On Campus. Why not try?
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."
I don't mean this rudely, but as a current student and Student Bonfire member/ex-leadership, the students do care. The thing that interests people to get involved with our build is the fact that we build it ourselves from scratch. While there aren't nearly as many who work on ours as there were in the 90s and before (mainly due to the university strongly discouraging us promoting/recruiting on campus), all of those students want to build it. If bonfire were to be moved on campus, we would want to build it, not see it built by some other outside source.
The number of people participating would increase just by having the university back current organization.
For those who are pushing to have the fire on campus, go participate with current Bonfire student leadership. Go out to cut in the fall. Spend an evening slamming logs on stack. Listen to those kids and the shared memories and experiences they have that those of us who did participate and build the fire had. There is zero chance the university can create what organically has been created.
Support current Bonfire and donate to help them find a permanent solution for a site that can be properly set up for parking, vendors, safety, etc.
You have no idea what went into building it back up to what it is now.
Respectfully, drop it.
Literally this thread was started because there is BOR support for bringing it back on campus. So your response is to tell me to drop it because it is impossible?
No doubt it took a tremendous amount of effort in the wake of the tragedy to keep Bonfire alive. I just don't understand this steadfast resistance to wanting it back On Campus based on how the University opposed it 20+ years ago while still dealing with a massive PR nightmare and multiple large legal battles. In the end though Student Bonfire is nice but it isn't what I think of as Bonfire and it isn't what most Aggies think of as Bonfire. This is what I think of Bonfire with the Band leading the Redpots in and the Yell Leaders and the Football Team and the President all putting on a show for 70k people and showing the world what Texas A&M is. Will it ever be exactly like this again? No, but it could be close:
BTW, you also should get your head around this. If the school wants to bring it back they can bring it back they can do it however they want to do it. I'd much rather the Student Bonfire folks be a part of the solution on how that is done rather than simply opposing it because it won't be exactly the way they want it. You don't even know what the possible proposals are but you do know you oppose them or even discussing them.
Look, if they came back and said no students will be involved that's one thing but we don't know. I'll stand with you if that's the case but for now I'd like to know what is possible. You are making so many assumptions based around what the Admin was doing or saying 20+ years ago.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."
I don't mean this rudely, but as a current student and Student Bonfire member/ex-leadership, the students do care. The thing that interests people to get involved with our build is the fact that we build it ourselves from scratch. While there aren't nearly as many who work on ours as there were in the 90s and before (mainly due to the university strongly discouraging us promoting/recruiting on campus), all of those students want to build it. If bonfire were to be moved on campus, we would want to build it, not see it built by some other outside source.
The number of people participating would increase just by having the university back current organization.
For those who are pushing to have the fire on campus, go participate with current Bonfire student leadership. Go out to cut in the fall. Spend an evening slamming logs on stack. Listen to those kids and the shared memories and experiences they have that those of us who did participate and build the fire had. There is zero chance the university can create what organically has been created.
Support current Bonfire and donate to help them find a permanent solution for a site that can be properly set up for parking, vendors, safety, etc.
The University will never take on the legal liability of backing Bonfire if they can't control it, that would incredibly irresponsible.
So it can remain the small, off campus event that 90%+ of current students will never experience and many will never know even existed or we can make some compromises and get it back On Campus where it can be the premier showcase event for Texas A&M that it once was before. Those are the choices.
Sorry but to me if the current leadership of Student Bonfire isn't trying to get it back On Campus with it being as close as possible to what it is now then I have trouble supporting them. By definition they aren't doing the thing that would bring as many Aggies together and are actively opposing it. Also, don't fool yourself into thinking they aren't making significant compromises with Student Bonfire now. They have to charge just to see it for instance.
I admire what they have tried to do but I don't know how anyone can look at the other video I posted and then look at this one and think this is by far the better option.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."
Not really. There's no reason they can't bring it back and just take additional precautions, which is what they should have done in the first place.
Completely false. As someone involved with leadership Student Bonfire/Unity Project 2002, it was recognized from Day 1 that if Bonfire were to ever return to campus, it would only be a hollow shell of its former self due to the liability concerns.
It would not be student cut, student load, student stack, student lead. Which is the whole point of the endeavor. The pep rally at the end, Burn, is not what builds the comradery, leadership skills and memories. I would rather it stay off campus forever than come back just as another over-produced tradition exploited by powers that be (see our football gameday experience).
FYI- if all you care about is the Burn, you can still see it each year just a short drive from campus.
I know you are a proponent of student bonfire off campus, but no matter how much you want it to be it isn't the same. I commend their efforts and keeping it alive on some form though.
I don't understand the liability. make the student sign a notarized waiver before they are allowed to work on cut and/or stack.
Then you never really understood the point of bonfire. Campus didn't make it, the students who built it still do.
I don't mean this rudely, but as a current student and Student Bonfire member/ex-leadership, the students do care. The thing that interests people to get involved with our build is the fact that we build it ourselves from scratch. While there aren't nearly as many who work on ours as there were in the 90s and before (mainly due to the university strongly discouraging us promoting/recruiting on campus), all of those students want to build it. If bonfire were to be moved on campus, we would want to build it, not see it built by some other outside source.
The number of people participating would increase just by having the university back current organization.
For those who are pushing to have the fire on campus, go participate with current Bonfire student leadership. Go out to cut in the fall. Spend an evening slamming logs on stack. Listen to those kids and the shared memories and experiences they have that those of us who did participate and build the fire had. There is zero chance the university can create what organically has been created.
Support current Bonfire and donate to help them find a permanent solution for a site that can be properly set up for parking, vendors, safety, etc.
The University will never take on the legal liability of backing Bonfire if they can't control it, that would incredibly irresponsible.
So it can remain the small, off campus event that 90%+ of current students will never experience and many will never know even existed or we can make some compromises and get it back On Campus where it can be the premier showcase event for Texas A&M that it once was before. Those are the choices.
Sorry but to me if the current leadership of Student Bonfire isn't trying to get it back On Campus with it being as close as possible to what it is now then I have trouble supporting them. By definition they aren't doing the thing that would bring as many Aggies together and are actively opposing it. Also, don't fool yourself into thinking they aren't making significant compromises with Student Bonfire now. They have to charge just to see it for instance.
I admire what they have tried to do but I don't know how anyone can look at the other video I posted and then look at this one and think this is by far the better option.
Burn is a tiny part of bonfire. Advocating reduced student participation j7st to get it on campus is gutting the actual tradition in favor of making a new tradition up.
I don't mean this rudely, but as a current student and Student Bonfire member/ex-leadership, the students do care. The thing that interests people to get involved with our build is the fact that we build it ourselves from scratch. While there aren't nearly as many who work on ours as there were in the 90s and before (mainly due to the university strongly discouraging us promoting/recruiting on campus), all of those students want to build it. If bonfire were to be moved on campus, we would want to build it, not see it built by some other outside source.
The number of people participating would increase just by having the university back current organization.
For those who are pushing to have the fire on campus, go participate with current Bonfire student leadership. Go out to cut in the fall. Spend an evening slamming logs on stack. Listen to those kids and the shared memories and experiences they have that those of us who did participate and build the fire had. There is zero chance the university can create what organically has been created.
Support current Bonfire and donate to help them find a permanent solution for a site that can be properly set up for parking, vendors, safety, etc.
The University will never take on the legal liability of backing Bonfire if they can't control it, that would incredibly irresponsible.
So it can remain the small, off campus event that 90%+ of current students will never experience and many will never know even existed or we can make some compromises and get it back On Campus where it can be the premier showcase event for Texas A&M that it once was before. Those are the choices.
Sorry but to me if the current leadership of Student Bonfire isn't trying to get it back On Campus with it being as close as possible to what it is now then I have trouble supporting them. By definition they aren't doing the thing that would bring as many Aggies together and are actively opposing it. Also, don't fool yourself into thinking they aren't making significant compromises with Student Bonfire now. They have to charge just to see it for instance.
I admire what they have tried to do but I don't know how anyone can look at the other video I posted and then look at this one and think this is by far the better option.
Burn is a tiny part of bonfire. Advocating reduced student participation j7st to get it on campus is gutting the actual tradition in favor of making a new tradition up.
Burn is not a "tiny" part of Bonfire. It is only a "tiny" part of Bonfire to those who are deeply involved in Bonfire. Even back in the day most people who worked on Bonfire came out once or twice either to Cut or Stack but you had a high level of participation. It's great that some people got super involved but for the overwhelming majority of the school and students Burn was the highlight. Hell, you would have thousands of tsips and people from all over that would come to Burn to see the spectacle, it was completely unique and a Bucket List for some. Doesn't mean I didn't value my time cutting or hauling or using my machete or wiring a log onto Stack but it was all the build up to Burn and the excitement of the big game as well.
We have no idea what the student participation might look like. It is much more likely you get more students to participate though if it is On Campus. So then the argument is what? Unless you do X amount of participation then it doesn't count? It only matters if you have cut a tree or hauled a log or wired it to Stack? Or it only counts if you have spent Y number of days or hours working on it?
Personally I'd rather have 15k students involved in some minor way than 1k students involved in a significant way. With Burn off campus and no University sponsorship it also will remain out of sight and out of mind for the overwhelming majority of Aggies.
Like I said, I appreciate what Student Bonfire has done and those kids are trying to have the best experience they can. They don't know what it used to be like though, we haven't had an On Campus Bonfire for over 25 years now so current students have no frame of reference. That's part of why I posted the 2 videos. I totally get how someone watching the second video would say that Burn was a tiny part of Bonfire.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."
Look at these lame "purists" last year hoarding the tradition by getting to participate:
I admire every one of them, I think it's great. I'd just like to have 10x that number of students involved even if they have to make a few changes. I'd also like it to be a bigger experience that has a much, much larger audience.
I don't understand why saying having it On Campus again automatically means you hate what current Student Bonfire does. I certainly have never said that.
"The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help."
I've been to multiple on campus bonfires, have a shoebox full of ashes and a scar on my right hand from collecting them from '98.
Burn was and is a small part of the tradition. It's a big party at the end of a massive STUDENT LEAD AND BUILT project. Chopping it off at the knees undermines and destroys the actual tradition and replaces it with a bad facsimile for people to make believe at.
Bonfire is a student lead, student built, student run tradition. If you take that away, you've destroyed what made it special.
It doesn't mean you hate it. You say you'd be fine with minor student involvement just to have burn back On campus... that's what most of us object to.
