eric76 said:

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RogerFurlong said:

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eric76 said:

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Claverack said:

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eric76 said:

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Claverack said:

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Foreverconservative said:

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This is a decent article that explains a few things that have been severely misrepresented by several posters

https://apnews.com/article/trump-fraud-business-law-courts-banks-lending-punishment-2ee9e509a28c24d0cda92da2f9a9b689

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Quote:

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An Associated Press analysis of nearly 70 years of civil cases under the law showed that such a penalty has only been imposed a dozen previous times, and Trump's case stands apart in a significant way: It's the only big business found that was threatened with a shutdown without a showing of obvious victims and major losses.

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One rule for Trump, potentially the same rule applying to any Republican businessman or investor who decides to run (or even exist) in New York or in some other part of Hobbesian America.

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So all the claims that nothing like this has ever happened before is a big fat lie?

I thought so.

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Show us who this novel approach, charging someone with fraudulent behavior with no one involved in the transactions stepping forward to claim such violation against their person or business, has been used against before Trump.

You can't. But it doesn't matter to you as you go for anything from piss tapes to Vindman to get Trump.

Meanwhile, Representative Donalds proves Mr.Ten Percent got his cut from the Chinese Communist Party, something Trump never did.

But here you are, cheerleading political persecution and prosecution while the most corrupt President in American history continues getting a free ride.

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I think that the political persecution is mostly in the minds of his faithful who for some bizarre reason think that they owe him some allegiance. Guess what! You don't owe him any more allegiance than he owes you.

I do, however, agree that the reason they went after him on this is because of his nutty politics and his in-your-face abrasive demeanor.

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So which one is it?

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I think it is more that he is such an obnoxious twit.

If Trump wasn't such an obnoxious twit, I think that he would have been far more likely to get a pass even though such a prosecution is likely justified.

If Trump were an honest man, then I think that there would have been no prosecution.

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Trump is the same obnoxious New York blowhard that he has always been. A left of center, brash businessman that New Yorkers embraced as the quintessential New Yorker, so much so that he hosted a popular reality TV show for over a decade with the brash catchphrase "You're fired!" that everyone mimicked.

Right up until he had the audacity to challenge and beat a NY carpetbagger & most unfavorable presidential candidate ever (at least until Kamala) and deprive her of "Her Turn". None of this would be going on if Trump didn't beat Hillary.

enjoy four more years of marxist children running the country. And they'll probably be running it until the whole thing collapses.

An attorney general is not the one personally going through records, trying to find assets. They have people on staff that can do that.

And if they don't have anyone, smart enough, do you really think there won't be hoards of liberal, New York accountants more than happy to help?

Also, don't forget there is a monitor that in place that is going to help the state get whatever they want. (what brings us back to the mystery of why a stay was not granted, giving the monitor can prevent the dissolution of assets
)

We will follow in Britain s foot steps, we are in the slow decline now.

Im Gipper said:

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An attorney general is not the one personally going through records, trying to find assets. They have people on staff that can do that.

And if they don't have anyone, smart enough, do you really think there won't be hoards of liberal, New York accountants more than happy to help?

Also, don't forget there is a monitor that in place that is going to help the state get whatever they want. (what brings us back to the mystery of why a stay was not granted, giving the monitor can prevent the dissolution of assets
)

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TBH I don't know how much authority that monitor has other than to ensure assets are not dissipated and unavailable to satisfy the judgment. That monitor could just as easily wind up between a rock and a hard space.

I don't think she has the power of stopping thing, she's just a monitor. But she has access to everything and would promptly report anything being sold to the Court.

Seems like he should be able to sell one of the subject properties, and if/when it sells for much more than the judge's valuation, it should allow a higher court to stay the order.
Maybe?
Puts a property at risk, but may be worth it in the long run.

Im Gipper said:

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I don't think she has the power of stopping thing, she's just a monitor. But she has access to everything and would promptly report anything being sold to the Court.

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My understading is that she has approval authority for anything that might be out of the ordinary.

The other part of the judge's order also forbids Trump and his sons from being an officer or director for any NY based entity for a few years. Is that also in effect after Monday? They really have him goat roped if it is.

TheRatt87 said:

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eric76 said:

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RogerFurlong said:

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eric76 said:

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Claverack said:

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eric76 said:

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Claverack said:

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Foreverconservative said:

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This is a decent article that explains a few things that have been severely misrepresented by several posters

https://apnews.com/article/trump-fraud-business-law-courts-banks-lending-punishment-2ee9e509a28c24d0cda92da2f9a9b689

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Quote:

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An Associated Press analysis of nearly 70 years of civil cases under the law showed that such a penalty has only been imposed a dozen previous times, and Trump's case stands apart in a significant way: It's the only big business found that was threatened with a shutdown without a showing of obvious victims and major losses.

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One rule for Trump, potentially the same rule applying to any Republican businessman or investor who decides to run (or even exist) in New York or in some other part of Hobbesian America.

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So all the claims that nothing like this has ever happened before is a big fat lie?

I thought so.

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Show us who this novel approach, charging someone with fraudulent behavior with no one involved in the transactions stepping forward to claim such violation against their person or business, has been used against before Trump.

You can't. But it doesn't matter to you as you go for anything from piss tapes to Vindman to get Trump.

Meanwhile, Representative Donalds proves Mr.Ten Percent got his cut from the Chinese Communist Party, something Trump never did.

But here you are, cheerleading political persecution and prosecution while the most corrupt President in American history continues getting a free ride.

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I think that the political persecution is mostly in the minds of his faithful who for some bizarre reason think that they owe him some allegiance. Guess what! You don't owe him any more allegiance than he owes you.

I do, however, agree that the reason they went after him on this is because of his nutty politics and his in-your-face abrasive demeanor.

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So which one is it?

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I think it is more that he is such an obnoxious twit.

If Trump wasn't such an obnoxious twit, I think that he would have been far more likely to get a pass even though such a prosecution is likely justified.

If Trump were an honest man, then I think that there would have been no prosecution.

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Trump is the same obnoxious New York blowhard that he has always been. A left of center, brash businessman that New Yorkers embraced as the quintessential New Yorker, so much so that he hosted a popular reality TV show for over a decade with the brash catchphrase "You're fired!" that everyone mimicked.

Right up until he had the audacity to challenge and beat a NY carpetbagger & most unfavorable presidential candidate ever (at least until Kamala) and deprive her of "Her Turn". None of this would be going on if Trump didn't beat Hillary.

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It was too bad that it wasn't someone like Ted Cruz in 2016? If it were, he'd be nearing the end of his eight years in office ready to become a highly respected former President, the Republican Party would still be associated with Conservatism, and this coming election would be looking great.

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To celebrate St. Patrick's Day, here is a tale of financial shenanigans at the American Irish Historical Society, in which Trump-deranged New York Attorney General Letitia James is hoist by her own petard.

It involves a grand old building on Fifth Avenue, an unpaid loan, a fading family dynasty, a James Joyce theatrical production which almost ended in fisticuffs, and hypocrisy from the AG as obvious as a glass of green beer.

It all began when James Doyle, a wealthy Georgia businessman with a love of his Irish roots, joined the board of the nonprofit society, whose crown jewel is a rare Gilded Age mansion at 991 Fifth Ave., right across from Central Park and the Met.

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Over the years, financial mismanagement and misfortune had befallen the society, and it was facing foreclosure. So in 2017, the board turned to Doyle for a $3 million loan, structured like a private mortgage. He was told that the Beaux-Arts townhouse was worth $80 million that included valuable air rights.

However, the society only made a few payments and Doyle soon found things weren't quite as they seemed.

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The society's financial woes and dysfunction had reached a crisis point by 2021, when Cahill tried to sell the building for $52 million (later reduced to $44 million).

He died the following year, and in stepped the New York attorney general, citing a petition she had received opposing the sale.

She announced that, by state law, any sale of a nonprofit asset had to be approved by her, effectively kiboshing the plan.

"It's an amazing place," James gushed to the Irish Voice. "We had to save it, had to save it … One day people can come in there and enjoy it again."
Which was all very well, but Doyle still was owed $3 million.

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The AG appointed an interim board of directors and Doyle was persuaded not to try to collect his money or foreclose on the mortgage before July 2023.

But by August 2023, he still hadn't been repaid, so he initiated foreclosure proceedings and promptly was blocked by the AG, who claimed the mortgage was invalid because he was a board member.

On Friday, Doyle launched a lawsuit against the society and requested a subpoena be issued against James requiring her to produce a raft of documents, including anything relating to campaign events hosted at the townhouse or any contributions to her political campaigns from the society or any of its members or directors.

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And he points out the uncanny similarities between his client's predicament and the notorious case James brought against Donald Trump for supposedly inflating the value of his properties to get a better mortgage, "although her office is now taking a polar opposite position."

The lawsuit alleges that Doyle was given "fraudulently inflated valuations" of the townhouse, putting its market value at over $80 million. Cahill and the society's current president-general, James Normile, "made representations to [Doyle] that the building had 'air rights' and could be built, or rebuilt, higher than its current height.

"In reality, there were no 'air rights' and the actual value is closer to $20 million. [The society] made a gross over-valuation" of the townhouse, which induced Doyle to make the $3 million loan.

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LINK

So James asked or a forebearance of payment on his mortgage for two years to which Doyle agreed. But if the mortgage was invalid back then, why the ask?

A USA Today article pointed out that the state can quickly seize bank accounts and require that all rent being paid go to the state.

If the state is getting the rent money but the property remains with the Trump company, I assume that the state would have no obligation to perform maintenance or anything else. Is that correct?

TexAg1987 said:

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Seems like he should be able to sell one of the subject properties, and if/when it sells for much more than the judge's valuation, it should allow a higher court to stay the order.
Maybe?
Puts a property at risk, but may be worth it in the long run.

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More likely many of the properties will sell for $1 to well connected Dems. Then the AG comes back for more properties and sells them all for $1 each. When it is over Trump will own nothing but owe the same amount plus interest.

PCC_80 said:

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ore likely many of the properties will sell for $1 to well connected Dems. Then the AG comes back for more properties and sells them all for $1 each. When it is over Trump will own nothing but owe the same amount plus interest.

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Likelihood ………………….…… zero.

Martyrdom is not a good look.

aggiehawg said:

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eric76 said:

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A USA Today article pointed out that the state can quickly seize bank accounts and require that all rent being paid go to the state.

If the state is getting the rent money but the property remains with the Trump company, I assume that the state would have no obligation to perform maintenance or anything else. Is that correct?

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No. Basic services and contractual services are required or it is a constructive eviction. James turns Trump Tower into Cabrini Green? In the middle of Manhattan?

James is playing a very very dangerous game here. She will not be able to sell any of those properties as quickly as she thinks she will. Not even close. The people that know how to run and operate such large business are not on a measly government salary, they are in private work.

James becoming a slumlord in middle Manhattan would be hysterical but not good for the US.

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again, we do not know much (if anything) about the ownership and management of Trump's properties, but it seems likely that they are owned by one Trump entity (a judgment debtor), yet managed under contract by a separate entity (probably also a trump entity, but also likely not a judgment debtor).

if that is the case, it is entirely possible that the management entity is contractually obligated to continue to manage, maintain and otherwise look after the property, not least pursuant to the leases that it signs with the tenants.

From the perspective of a tenant, the only change would be the entity to whom the rent check eventually goes.

For the life of me I cannot figure out why we remain in a Union with NY? Can we cede them to Canada?

Build It said:

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For the life of me I cannot figure out why we remain in a Union with NY? Can we cede them to Canada?

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Don't worry, it's gonna come back to bite them.

Wish I had your optimism.

I don't think anything will happen to three people.

NY AG will go after cheaper properties first.

Imagine if Trump has 100 properties. Take the cheapest 90. Instead of the most expensive three.

What happens if they force liquidation and Trump wins on appeal?

pacecar02 said:

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What happens if they force liquidating and Trump wins on appeal?

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If the properties are sold, they can't return them. He would be restored via cash from the state I assume.

shiftyandquick said:

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NY AG will go after cheaper properties first.

Imagine if Trump has 100 properties. Take the cheapest 90. Instead of the most expensive three.

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So they have to manage 90 properties instead of 10?

shiftyandquick said:

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pacecar02 said:

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What happens if they force liquidating and Trump wins on appeal?

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If the properties are sold, they can't return them. He would be restored via cash from the state I assume.

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New York in their "infinite wisdom" sells a Trump property for $10million that's valued at $65million let's say. Trump on reversal will gain $55million? Is this how it works?

bobbranco said:

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shiftyandquick said:

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pacecar02 said:

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What happens if they force liquidating and Trump wins on appeal?

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If the properties are sold, they can't return them. He would be restored via cash from the state I assume.

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New York in their "infinite wisdom" sells a Trump property for $10million that's valued at $65million let's say. Trump on reversal will gain $55million? Is this how it works?

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I would assume if NY seizes a property valued at $65million but sells it for only $10million, they would use that as justification for only having to make Trump whole for $10million upon reversal.

Though I am just speculating and admit I know very little about how it would play out, but the whole charade is corrupt from the onset regardless of what legality NY came up with to justify their witchhunt.

bobbranco said:

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shiftyandquick said:

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pacecar02 said:

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What happens if they force liquidating and Trump wins on appeal?

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If the properties are sold, they can't return them. He would be restored via cash from the state I assume.

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New York in their "infinite wisdom" sells a Trump property for $10million that's valued at $65million let's say. Trump on reversal will gain $55million? Is this how it works?

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I think he's just out unless there is recourse to sue the court after the fact? If on appeal the judgment is set aside I don't see how they could make Trump whole.

Certainly a similar scenario has happened, no?

If Trump is going to make a bunch of money off TruthSocial going public, can he just put that up as collateral to get a bond? It seems (without doing all the research) that approval for the deal is done and the only barrier is that he may not be able to sell off shares for some period of time (6 months - maybe sooner).

pacecar02 said:

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What happens if they force liquidation and Trump wins on appeal?

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Trump gets the money received from selling the property. I read that the state also has to pay him 9% interest on that money.

bobbranco said:

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shiftyandquick said:

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pacecar02 said:

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What happens if they force liquidating and Trump wins on appeal?

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If the properties are sold, they can't return them. He would be restored via cash from the state I assume.

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New York in their "infinite wisdom" sells a Trump property for $10million that's valued at $65million let's say. Trump on reversal will gain $55million? Is this how it works?

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My understanding is that the sale would establish the market value for the property at $10 million.

Trump would receive $10 million plus interest.

I don't know if it is true, but I'm told that he could take the deeds to the property to the state and they would save the deeds and would give them back if the judgment is vacated.

That he hasn't done so makes me think that either I was told wrong or that he doesn't expect the judgment to be vacated and wants to be able to fight the seizures every step of the way. If the state already had the deeds, then he wouldn't have much to fight over.

JB93 said:

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If Trump is going to make a bunch of money off TruthSocial going public, can he just put that up as collateral to get a bond? It seems (without doing all the research) that approval for the deal is done and the only barrier is that he may not be able to sell off shares for some period of time (6 months - maybe sooner).

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More importantly, why would the state take a bunch of shares as collateral. Nobody knows what they would be worth when they could finally be sold.

I think that TruthSocial largely depends on Trump posting on it which wouldn't seem to be very good for its long term viability. Plus, if Trump gave up the shares, why would he even care if it kept the price up other than the fact that if it wasn't enough, they could presumably still come after his properties for the difference.

HYPOCRISY: A NYC company fraudulently overvalued its building to obtain a mortgage and has defaulted. NY AG Letitia James is taking the side of the company preventing the lender from foreclosing on the building. The borrower is a political ally of James. https://t.co/PONGuwM656

— @amuse (@amuse) March 21, 2024

Selective prosecution, anyone?

Damn! This judge keeps overstepping and trampling the law.

Quote:

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A judge ordered Donald Trump's company Thursday to inform a court-appointed financial watchdog about any efforts to obtain an appeal bond.

Judge Arthur Engoron's order came three days after Trump's lawyers in an appeals court filing said it has been "impossible" so far for the former president to get such a bond for a civil business fraud case he lost.

Trump sought the bond to prevent New York Attorney General Letitia James as early as Monday collecting on a $454 million civil fraud judgment against him as he appeals the verdict in Manhattan Supreme Court.

His lawyers have said that more than 30 surety companies rejected writing a bond for Trump because they would not accept real estate as collateral.

Trump has asked the appeals court to pause the judgment from taking effect without having to secure a bond. That court has yet to rule on his request.

In his order Thursday, Engoron told the Trump Organization it must tell its financial overseer, Barbara Jones, "in advance, of any efforts to secure surety bonds."

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LINK

Due process doesn't apply to Trump, I guess.

aggiehawg said:

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Damn! This judge keeps overstepping and trampling the law.

Quote:

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A judge ordered Donald Trump's company Thursday to inform a court-appointed financial watchdog about any efforts to obtain an appeal bond.

Judge Arthur Engoron's order came three days after Trump's lawyers in an appeals court filing said it has been "impossible" so far for the former president to get such a bond for a civil business fraud case he lost.

Trump sought the bond to prevent New York Attorney General Letitia James as early as Monday collecting on a $454 million civil fraud judgment against him as he appeals the verdict in Manhattan Supreme Court.

His lawyers have said that more than 30 surety companies rejected writing a bond for Trump because they would not accept real estate as collateral.

Trump has asked the appeals court to pause the judgment from taking effect without having to secure a bond. That court has yet to rule on his request.

In his order Thursday, Engoron told the Trump Organization it must tell its financial overseer, Barbara Jones, "in advance, of any efforts to secure surety bonds."

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LINK

Due process doesn't apply to Trump, I guess

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Honestly this judge keeps extending his already obvious overreach, he strengthens Trump appellate odds to the higher courts at the federal level.

The board has voted for the Total IPO happen so Trump has possibly gained some leverage to finance this bond fiasco, last minute. The judge and his monitor can piss off. These market speculars are pretty good at their jobs, it's how they make their money and they are projecting Trump's 60% of Truth to be between $5.5 and $6.5 billion, that can be leveraged against a $500M loan or he can file for an emergency partial payout in a certified check for the same.

I still think he has another option no one is talking about that he had as a break glass backup involving his SIL Kushner.

Quote:

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I still think he has another option no one is talking about that he had as a break glass backup involving his SIL Kushner.

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Not sure how liquid Kushner is. And with this order by the judge, Kushner would not have any security for funds he did advance because the monitor can block any such security interest being granted.

That's a big ask even for family.

So how will the court appointed monitor going to handle this? James will freeze all of Trump's accounts in NY?

Quote:

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Nevertheless, James might be in the position to collect the grand sum by three methods, USA Today reported:
[ol]

Placing liens against properties

Collecting rents from properties

Collecting funds from Trump's New York state bank accounts

[/ol]"There's a lot that you can do here in New York," Mitchell Epner, a long-time New York litigator, told USA Today. "It's not just limited to real estate."

Epner said James would likely first go after cash in Trump's New York banks accounts, second property that isn't real estate, and third real estate. "If there are bank accounts in New York, those can be frozen essentially immediately if she already knows where they are, and the turnover of the funds in a bank account would be measured in days or weeks," Epner said.

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Concerning real estate, Nager said the judgment would become a lien against Trump's Manhattan properties due to their location in New York County, where James won in court. "For instance, if the Trump Organization which is one of the Trump entities subject to the judgment owns a property in Manhattan with tenants who pay rent, you can have their rental payments redirected," USA Today reported.

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LINK

Engeron dropped his threat to take away state charters and ability to conduct business in NY because he knew James could just steal all of his working capital and even revenue streams. Will have the same effect.

From same link:

Quote:

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Constitutional scholar Jonathan Turley believes Trump's predicament is a form of "mob justice" that could ultimately find its way to the Supreme Court:

Quote:

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His position is in order to get any other judge to look at what I've done to you, you've got to come up with basically a half a billion dollars just to appeal. It's like a judge saying, "I'm going to take your house away, but you can appeal my decision. You just have to sell your house in order to do it." …[M]any people look at this as a type of almost mob justice.

And this could end up going beyond the New York system. They [Trump's team] could appeal this all the way to the Supreme Court. On occasion, the Supreme Court has intervened in state actions, for example, on punitive damages, and so that points damages can become so high they deny someone due process of law. This is falling into that extreme category, in my view. I find it appalling.

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"It shocks the conscience that you have to pony up this type of money just to get someone to look at what you believe, and I believe, is an excessive ruling by this judge," Turley concluded.

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Indeed it does.