eric76 said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

Foreverconservative said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Foreverconservative said:

---

Antoninus said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

How many wealthy people do you know who have liquidity like that ($450mm)? I'm sure you have a list with proof.

---

A large number of posters above have assured us that he has dozens of buddies who would gladly front him the money.

---

You can bet if Trump calls Steve Wynn, Peter Thiel Carl Icahn or Andrew Beal he can borrow the cash. That bond is petty cash to that group

---

Not likely.

If he puts up a bond, the bonding company basically promises that if Trump does not pay, they will. They don't actually give the government the money in advance. Instead, they invest the money.

If they put up the money, they aren't bonding companies and can't just deliver a promise to pay. They would loan the money to Trump who would then put it in escrow, thereby giving up interest on the money while in escrow. That would be a lot of interest for him to give up. In the meantime, the interest he would owe if the judgment is upheld would continue to accrue.

Finally, and perhaps the most important, even if the money is "petty cash" to them, they don't like being scammed of their money. I suspect that any money loaned to Trump would never be paid back. They would surely demand full collateral to cover the debt to avoid being scammed by Trump.

Those who earned their fortunes themselves did not earn them by throwing away money --- they are going to want it back. Perhaps their heirs might be throwing money around when they eventually inherit it, but there are limits to what people who made their fortunes instead of inheriting them are willing to do.

The best thing for Trump would be to find a bonding company who will bond him out on this. That way, he could continue to earn interest on his money. But it is difficult to imagine a bonding company doing that without collateral. From what I've read, they don't want property as collateral, either.

---

Okay glad to know you're the spokesperson for a group of people that have done business with Trump for years, funded PACs to help him get elected, and have forgotten more about finance and business than you'll ever know, but carry one with all your expertise.

---

All dems are experts at everything don't ya know.

---

You may actually be right about that. Trump thinks he's the world's greatest expert on everything.

---

Rockdoc said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

Foreverconservative said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Foreverconservative said:

---

Antoninus said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

How many wealthy people do you know who have liquidity like that ($450mm)? I'm sure you have a list with proof.

---

A large number of posters above have assured us that he has dozens of buddies who would gladly front him the money.

---

You can bet if Trump calls Steve Wynn, Peter Thiel Carl Icahn or Andrew Beal he can borrow the cash. That bond is petty cash to that group

---

Not likely.

If he puts up a bond, the bonding company basically promises that if Trump does not pay, they will. They don't actually give the government the money in advance. Instead, they invest the money.

If they put up the money, they aren't bonding companies and can't just deliver a promise to pay. They would loan the money to Trump who would then put it in escrow, thereby giving up interest on the money while in escrow. That would be a lot of interest for him to give up. In the meantime, the interest he would owe if the judgment is upheld would continue to accrue.

Finally, and perhaps the most important, even if the money is "petty cash" to them, they don't like being scammed of their money. I suspect that any money loaned to Trump would never be paid back. They would surely demand full collateral to cover the debt to avoid being scammed by Trump.

Those who earned their fortunes themselves did not earn them by throwing away money --- they are going to want it back. Perhaps their heirs might be throwing money around when they eventually inherit it, but there are limits to what people who made their fortunes instead of inheriting them are willing to do.

The best thing for Trump would be to find a bonding company who will bond him out on this. That way, he could continue to earn interest on his money. But it is difficult to imagine a bonding company doing that without collateral. From what I've read, they don't want property as collateral, either.

---

Okay glad to know you're the spokesperson for a group of people that have done business with Trump for years, funded PACs to help him get elected, and have forgotten more about finance and business than you'll ever know, but carry one with all your expertise.

---

All dems are experts at everything don't ya know.

---

You may actually be right about that. Trump thinks he's the world's greatest expert on everything.

---

He's done pretty well for himself!

---

eric76 said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

Foreverconservative said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Foreverconservative said:

---

Antoninus said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

How many wealthy people do you know who have liquidity like that ($450mm)? I'm sure you have a list with proof.

---

A large number of posters above have assured us that he has dozens of buddies who would gladly front him the money.

---

You can bet if Trump calls Steve Wynn, Peter Thiel Carl Icahn or Andrew Beal he can borrow the cash. That bond is petty cash to that group

---

Not likely.

If he puts up a bond, the bonding company basically promises that if Trump does not pay, they will. They don't actually give the government the money in advance. Instead, they invest the money.

If they put up the money, they aren't bonding companies and can't just deliver a promise to pay. They would loan the money to Trump who would then put it in escrow, thereby giving up interest on the money while in escrow. That would be a lot of interest for him to give up. In the meantime, the interest he would owe if the judgment is upheld would continue to accrue.

Finally, and perhaps the most important, even if the money is "petty cash" to them, they don't like being scammed of their money. I suspect that any money loaned to Trump would never be paid back. They would surely demand full collateral to cover the debt to avoid being scammed by Trump.

Those who earned their fortunes themselves did not earn them by throwing away money --- they are going to want it back. Perhaps their heirs might be throwing money around when they eventually inherit it, but there are limits to what people who made their fortunes instead of inheriting them are willing to do.

The best thing for Trump would be to find a bonding company who will bond him out on this. That way, he could continue to earn interest on his money. But it is difficult to imagine a bonding company doing that without collateral. From what I've read, they don't want property as collateral, either.

---

Okay glad to know you're the spokesperson for a group of people that have done business with Trump for years, funded PACs to help him get elected, and have forgotten more about finance and business than you'll ever know, but carry one with all your expertise.

---

All dems are experts at everything don't ya know.

---

You may actually be right about that. Trump thinks he's the world's greatest expert on everything.

---

He's done pretty well for himself!

---

Football league team, casino, ... ?

He does pretty good at extracting what he can from others and letting them suffer from his many misteps.

---

Rockdoc said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

Foreverconservative said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Foreverconservative said:

---

Antoninus said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

How many wealthy people do you know who have liquidity like that ($450mm)? I'm sure you have a list with proof.

---

A large number of posters above have assured us that he has dozens of buddies who would gladly front him the money.

---

You can bet if Trump calls Steve Wynn, Peter Thiel Carl Icahn or Andrew Beal he can borrow the cash. That bond is petty cash to that group

---

Not likely.

If he puts up a bond, the bonding company basically promises that if Trump does not pay, they will. They don't actually give the government the money in advance. Instead, they invest the money.

If they put up the money, they aren't bonding companies and can't just deliver a promise to pay. They would loan the money to Trump who would then put it in escrow, thereby giving up interest on the money while in escrow. That would be a lot of interest for him to give up. In the meantime, the interest he would owe if the judgment is upheld would continue to accrue.

Finally, and perhaps the most important, even if the money is "petty cash" to them, they don't like being scammed of their money. I suspect that any money loaned to Trump would never be paid back. They would surely demand full collateral to cover the debt to avoid being scammed by Trump.

Those who earned their fortunes themselves did not earn them by throwing away money --- they are going to want it back. Perhaps their heirs might be throwing money around when they eventually inherit it, but there are limits to what people who made their fortunes instead of inheriting them are willing to do.

The best thing for Trump would be to find a bonding company who will bond him out on this. That way, he could continue to earn interest on his money. But it is difficult to imagine a bonding company doing that without collateral. From what I've read, they don't want property as collateral, either.

---

Okay glad to know you're the spokesperson for a group of people that have done business with Trump for years, funded PACs to help him get elected, and have forgotten more about finance and business than you'll ever know, but carry one with all your expertise.

---

All dems are experts at everything don't ya know.

---

You may actually be right about that. Trump thinks he's the world's greatest expert on everything.

---

He's done pretty well for himself!

---

Football league team, casino, ... ?

He does pretty good at extracting what he can from others and letting them suffer from his many misteps.

---

You're going to be so disappointed. I feel for you.

---

eric76 said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

Foreverconservative said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Foreverconservative said:

---

Antoninus said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

How many wealthy people do you know who have liquidity like that ($450mm)? I'm sure you have a list with proof.

---

A large number of posters above have assured us that he has dozens of buddies who would gladly front him the money.

---

You can bet if Trump calls Steve Wynn, Peter Thiel Carl Icahn or Andrew Beal he can borrow the cash. That bond is petty cash to that group

---

Not likely.

If he puts up a bond, the bonding company basically promises that if Trump does not pay, they will. They don't actually give the government the money in advance. Instead, they invest the money.

If they put up the money, they aren't bonding companies and can't just deliver a promise to pay. They would loan the money to Trump who would then put it in escrow, thereby giving up interest on the money while in escrow. That would be a lot of interest for him to give up. In the meantime, the interest he would owe if the judgment is upheld would continue to accrue.

Finally, and perhaps the most important, even if the money is "petty cash" to them, they don't like being scammed of their money. I suspect that any money loaned to Trump would never be paid back. They would surely demand full collateral to cover the debt to avoid being scammed by Trump.

Those who earned their fortunes themselves did not earn them by throwing away money --- they are going to want it back. Perhaps their heirs might be throwing money around when they eventually inherit it, but there are limits to what people who made their fortunes instead of inheriting them are willing to do.

The best thing for Trump would be to find a bonding company who will bond him out on this. That way, he could continue to earn interest on his money. But it is difficult to imagine a bonding company doing that without collateral. From what I've read, they don't want property as collateral, either.

---

Okay glad to know you're the spokesperson for a group of people that have done business with Trump for years, funded PACs to help him get elected, and have forgotten more about finance and business than you'll ever know, but carry one with all your expertise.

---

All dems are experts at everything don't ya know.

---

You may actually be right about that. Trump thinks he's the world's greatest expert on everything.

---

He's done pretty well for himself!

---

Football league team, casino, ... ?

He does pretty good at extracting what he can from others and letting them suffer from his many misteps.

---

You're going to be so disappointed. I feel for you.

---

I don't invest in Trump companies.

If you feel so strongly in favor of him, what is keeping you from investing you life savings in his companies?

---

Rockdoc said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

Foreverconservative said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Foreverconservative said:

---

Antoninus said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

How many wealthy people do you know who have liquidity like that ($450mm)? I'm sure you have a list with proof.

---

A large number of posters above have assured us that he has dozens of buddies who would gladly front him the money.

---

You can bet if Trump calls Steve Wynn, Peter Thiel Carl Icahn or Andrew Beal he can borrow the cash. That bond is petty cash to that group

---

Not likely.

If he puts up a bond, the bonding company basically promises that if Trump does not pay, they will. They don't actually give the government the money in advance. Instead, they invest the money.

If they put up the money, they aren't bonding companies and can't just deliver a promise to pay. They would loan the money to Trump who would then put it in escrow, thereby giving up interest on the money while in escrow. That would be a lot of interest for him to give up. In the meantime, the interest he would owe if the judgment is upheld would continue to accrue.

Finally, and perhaps the most important, even if the money is "petty cash" to them, they don't like being scammed of their money. I suspect that any money loaned to Trump would never be paid back. They would surely demand full collateral to cover the debt to avoid being scammed by Trump.

Those who earned their fortunes themselves did not earn them by throwing away money --- they are going to want it back. Perhaps their heirs might be throwing money around when they eventually inherit it, but there are limits to what people who made their fortunes instead of inheriting them are willing to do.

The best thing for Trump would be to find a bonding company who will bond him out on this. That way, he could continue to earn interest on his money. But it is difficult to imagine a bonding company doing that without collateral. From what I've read, they don't want property as collateral, either.

---

Okay glad to know you're the spokesperson for a group of people that have done business with Trump for years, funded PACs to help him get elected, and have forgotten more about finance and business than you'll ever know, but carry one with all your expertise.

---

All dems are experts at everything don't ya know.

---

You may actually be right about that. Trump thinks he's the world's greatest expert on everything.

---

He's done pretty well for himself!

---

Football league team, casino, ... ?

He does pretty good at extracting what he can from others and letting them suffer from his many misteps.

---

You're going to be so disappointed. I feel for you.

---

I don't invest in Trump companies.

If you feel so strongly in favor of him, what is keeping you from investing you life savings in his companies?

---

That's a pretty stupid statement. I'm retired and have always taken care of myself, and done a pretty good job of it. I don't expect libs to understand.

---

eric76 said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

Foreverconservative said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Foreverconservative said:

---

Antoninus said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

How many wealthy people do you know who have liquidity like that ($450mm)? I'm sure you have a list with proof.

---

A large number of posters above have assured us that he has dozens of buddies who would gladly front him the money.

---

You can bet if Trump calls Steve Wynn, Peter Thiel Carl Icahn or Andrew Beal he can borrow the cash. That bond is petty cash to that group

---

Not likely.

If he puts up a bond, the bonding company basically promises that if Trump does not pay, they will. They don't actually give the government the money in advance. Instead, they invest the money.

If they put up the money, they aren't bonding companies and can't just deliver a promise to pay. They would loan the money to Trump who would then put it in escrow, thereby giving up interest on the money while in escrow. That would be a lot of interest for him to give up. In the meantime, the interest he would owe if the judgment is upheld would continue to accrue.

Finally, and perhaps the most important, even if the money is "petty cash" to them, they don't like being scammed of their money. I suspect that any money loaned to Trump would never be paid back. They would surely demand full collateral to cover the debt to avoid being scammed by Trump.

Those who earned their fortunes themselves did not earn them by throwing away money --- they are going to want it back. Perhaps their heirs might be throwing money around when they eventually inherit it, but there are limits to what people who made their fortunes instead of inheriting them are willing to do.

The best thing for Trump would be to find a bonding company who will bond him out on this. That way, he could continue to earn interest on his money. But it is difficult to imagine a bonding company doing that without collateral. From what I've read, they don't want property as collateral, either.

---

Okay glad to know you're the spokesperson for a group of people that have done business with Trump for years, funded PACs to help him get elected, and have forgotten more about finance and business than you'll ever know, but carry one with all your expertise.

---

All dems are experts at everything don't ya know.

---

You may actually be right about that. Trump thinks he's the world's greatest expert on everything.

---

He's done pretty well for himself!

---

Football league team, casino, ... ?

He does pretty good at extracting what he can from others and letting them suffer from his many misteps.

---

You're going to be so disappointed. I feel for you.

---

I don't invest in Trump companies.

If you feel so strongly in favor of him, what is keeping you from investing you life savings in his companies?

---

That's a pretty stupid statement. I'm retired and have always taken care of myself, and done a pretty good job of it. I don't expect libs to understand.

---

Just making a point -- savvy investers do not invest with Trump. If you do, he'll take your money and leave you with nothing.

---

texagbeliever said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

Foreverconservative said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Foreverconservative said:

---

Antoninus said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

How many wealthy people do you know who have liquidity like that ($450mm)? I'm sure you have a list with proof.

---

A large number of posters above have assured us that he has dozens of buddies who would gladly front him the money.

---

You can bet if Trump calls Steve Wynn, Peter Thiel Carl Icahn or Andrew Beal he can borrow the cash. That bond is petty cash to that group

---

Not likely.

If he puts up a bond, the bonding company basically promises that if Trump does not pay, they will. They don't actually give the government the money in advance. Instead, they invest the money.

If they put up the money, they aren't bonding companies and can't just deliver a promise to pay. They would loan the money to Trump who would then put it in escrow, thereby giving up interest on the money while in escrow. That would be a lot of interest for him to give up. In the meantime, the interest he would owe if the judgment is upheld would continue to accrue.

Finally, and perhaps the most important, even if the money is "petty cash" to them, they don't like being scammed of their money. I suspect that any money loaned to Trump would never be paid back. They would surely demand full collateral to cover the debt to avoid being scammed by Trump.

Those who earned their fortunes themselves did not earn them by throwing away money --- they are going to want it back. Perhaps their heirs might be throwing money around when they eventually inherit it, but there are limits to what people who made their fortunes instead of inheriting them are willing to do.

The best thing for Trump would be to find a bonding company who will bond him out on this. That way, he could continue to earn interest on his money. But it is difficult to imagine a bonding company doing that without collateral. From what I've read, they don't want property as collateral, either.

---

Okay glad to know you're the spokesperson for a group of people that have done business with Trump for years, funded PACs to help him get elected, and have forgotten more about finance and business than you'll ever know, but carry one with all your expertise.

---

All dems are experts at everything don't ya know.

---

You may actually be right about that. Trump thinks he's the world's greatest expert on everything.

---

He's done pretty well for himself!

---

Football league team, casino, ... ?

He does pretty good at extracting what he can from others and letting them suffer from his many misteps.

---

You're going to be so disappointed. I feel for you.

---

I don't invest in Trump companies.

If you feel so strongly in favor of him, what is keeping you from investing you life savings in his companies?

---

That's a pretty stupid statement. I'm retired and have always taken care of myself, and done a pretty good job of it. I don't expect libs to understand.

---

Just making a point -- savvy investers do not invest with Trump. If you do, he'll take your money and leave you with nothing.

---

Yes the banks that made loans with him said they would make loans to Trump again. But they aren't as smart as you, eric76. May I suggest you go ahead and come out as a democrat. This is getting rather tiresome.

---

Rockdoc said:

---

texagbeliever said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

Foreverconservative said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Foreverconservative said:

---

Antoninus said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

How many wealthy people do you know who have liquidity like that ($450mm)? I'm sure you have a list with proof.

---

A large number of posters above have assured us that he has dozens of buddies who would gladly front him the money.

---

You can bet if Trump calls Steve Wynn, Peter Thiel Carl Icahn or Andrew Beal he can borrow the cash. That bond is petty cash to that group

---

Not likely.

If he puts up a bond, the bonding company basically promises that if Trump does not pay, they will. They don't actually give the government the money in advance. Instead, they invest the money.

If they put up the money, they aren't bonding companies and can't just deliver a promise to pay. They would loan the money to Trump who would then put it in escrow, thereby giving up interest on the money while in escrow. That would be a lot of interest for him to give up. In the meantime, the interest he would owe if the judgment is upheld would continue to accrue.

Finally, and perhaps the most important, even if the money is "petty cash" to them, they don't like being scammed of their money. I suspect that any money loaned to Trump would never be paid back. They would surely demand full collateral to cover the debt to avoid being scammed by Trump.

Those who earned their fortunes themselves did not earn them by throwing away money --- they are going to want it back. Perhaps their heirs might be throwing money around when they eventually inherit it, but there are limits to what people who made their fortunes instead of inheriting them are willing to do.

The best thing for Trump would be to find a bonding company who will bond him out on this. That way, he could continue to earn interest on his money. But it is difficult to imagine a bonding company doing that without collateral. From what I've read, they don't want property as collateral, either.

---

Okay glad to know you're the spokesperson for a group of people that have done business with Trump for years, funded PACs to help him get elected, and have forgotten more about finance and business than you'll ever know, but carry one with all your expertise.

---

All dems are experts at everything don't ya know.

---

You may actually be right about that. Trump thinks he's the world's greatest expert on everything.

---

He's done pretty well for himself!

---

Football league team, casino, ... ?

He does pretty good at extracting what he can from others and letting them suffer from his many misteps.

---

You're going to be so disappointed. I feel for you.

---

I don't invest in Trump companies.

If you feel so strongly in favor of him, what is keeping you from investing you life savings in his companies?

---

That's a pretty stupid statement. I'm retired and have always taken care of myself, and done a pretty good job of it. I don't expect libs to understand.

---

Just making a point -- savvy investers do not invest with Trump. If you do, he'll take your money and leave you with nothing.

---

Yes the banks that made loans with him said they would make loans to Trump again. But they aren't as smart as you, eric76. May I suggest you go ahead and come out as a democrat. This is getting rather tiresome.

---

He doesn't have to come out as a democrat. Everyone on here for any length of time knows.

---

eric76 said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

Foreverconservative said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Foreverconservative said:

---

Antoninus said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

How many wealthy people do you know who have liquidity like that ($450mm)? I'm sure you have a list with proof.

---

A large number of posters above have assured us that he has dozens of buddies who would gladly front him the money.

---

You can bet if Trump calls Steve Wynn, Peter Thiel Carl Icahn or Andrew Beal he can borrow the cash. That bond is petty cash to that group

---

Not likely.

If he puts up a bond, the bonding company basically promises that if Trump does not pay, they will. They don't actually give the government the money in advance. Instead, they invest the money.

If they put up the money, they aren't bonding companies and can't just deliver a promise to pay. They would loan the money to Trump who would then put it in escrow, thereby giving up interest on the money while in escrow. That would be a lot of interest for him to give up. In the meantime, the interest he would owe if the judgment is upheld would continue to accrue.

Finally, and perhaps the most important, even if the money is "petty cash" to them, they don't like being scammed of their money. I suspect that any money loaned to Trump would never be paid back. They would surely demand full collateral to cover the debt to avoid being scammed by Trump.

Those who earned their fortunes themselves did not earn them by throwing away money --- they are going to want it back. Perhaps their heirs might be throwing money around when they eventually inherit it, but there are limits to what people who made their fortunes instead of inheriting them are willing to do.

The best thing for Trump would be to find a bonding company who will bond him out on this. That way, he could continue to earn interest on his money. But it is difficult to imagine a bonding company doing that without collateral. From what I've read, they don't want property as collateral, either.

---

Okay glad to know you're the spokesperson for a group of people that have done business with Trump for years, funded PACs to help him get elected, and have forgotten more about finance and business than you'll ever know, but carry one with all your expertise.

---

All dems are experts at everything don't ya know.

---

You may actually be right about that. Trump thinks he's the world's greatest expert on everything.

---

He's done pretty well for himself!

---

Football league team, casino, ... ?

He does pretty good at extracting what he can from others and letting them suffer from his many misteps.

---

You're going to be so disappointed. I feel for you.

---

I don't invest in Trump companies.

If you feel so strongly in favor of him, what is keeping you from investing you life savings in his companies?

---

That's a pretty stupid statement. I'm retired and have always taken care of myself, and done a pretty good job of it. I don't expect libs to understand.

---

Just making a point -- savvy investers do not invest with Trump. If you do, he'll take your money and leave you with nothing.

---

Rongagin71 said:

---

I am willing to listen if you can list people that actually say they have been ripped off by Trump, but please don't send a list of Democrat operatives...I want people who were actually wronged not just make believe wronged.

---

Quote:

---

During the Atlantic City casino boom in the 1980s, Philadelphia cabinet-builder Edward Friel Jr. landed a $400,000 contract to build the bases for slot machines, registration desks, bars and other cabinets at Harrah's at Trump Plaza.

...

Edward's son, Paul, who was the firm's accountant, still remembers the amount of that bill more than 30 years later: $83,600. The reason: the money never came. "That began the demise of the Edward J. Friel Company… which has been around since my grandfather," he said.

Donald Trump often portrays himself as a savior of the working class who will "protect your job." But a USA TODAY NETWORK analysis found he has been involved in more than 3,500 lawsuits over the past three decades and a large number of those involve ordinary Americans, like the Friels, who say Trump or his companies have refused to pay them.

---

Quote:

---

At least 60 lawsuits, along with hundreds of liens, judgments, and other government filing[ reviewed by the USA TODAY NETWORK, document people who have accused Trump and his businesses of failing to pay them for their work. Among them: a dishwasher in Florida. A glass company in New Jersey. A carpet company. A plumber. Painters. Forty-eight waiters. Dozens of bartenders and other hourly workers at his resorts and clubs, coast to coast. Real estate brokers who sold his properties. And, ironically, several law firms that once represented him in these suits and others

---

GenericAggie said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

Foreverconservative said:

---

eric76 said:

---

Foreverconservative said:

---

Antoninus said:

---

Rockdoc said:

---

How many wealthy people do you know who have liquidity like that ($450mm)? I'm sure you have a list with proof.

---

A large number of posters above have assured us that he has dozens of buddies who would gladly front him the money.

---

You can bet if Trump calls Steve Wynn, Peter Thiel Carl Icahn or Andrew Beal he can borrow the cash. That bond is petty cash to that group

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Not likely.

If he puts up a bond, the bonding company basically promises that if Trump does not pay, they will. They don't actually give the government the money in advance. Instead, they invest the money.

If they put up the money, they aren't bonding companies and can't just deliver a promise to pay. They would loan the money to Trump who would then put it in escrow, thereby giving up interest on the money while in escrow. That would be a lot of interest for him to give up. In the meantime, the interest he would owe if the judgment is upheld would continue to accrue.

Finally, and perhaps the most important, even if the money is "petty cash" to them, they don't like being scammed of their money. I suspect that any money loaned to Trump would never be paid back. They would surely demand full collateral to cover the debt to avoid being scammed by Trump.

Those who earned their fortunes themselves did not earn them by throwing away money --- they are going to want it back. Perhaps their heirs might be throwing money around when they eventually inherit it, but there are limits to what people who made their fortunes instead of inheriting them are willing to do.

The best thing for Trump would be to find a bonding company who will bond him out on this. That way, he could continue to earn interest on his money. But it is difficult to imagine a bonding company doing that without collateral. From what I've read, they don't want property as collateral, either.

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Okay glad to know you're the spokesperson for a group of people that have done business with Trump for years, funded PACs to help him get elected, and have forgotten more about finance and business than you'll ever know, but carry one with all your expertise.

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All dems are experts at everything don't ya know.

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You may actually be right about that. Trump thinks he's the world's greatest expert on everything.

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He's done pretty well for himself!

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Football league team, casino, ... ?

He does pretty good at extracting what he can from others and letting them suffer from his many misteps.

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You're going to be so disappointed. I feel for you.

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I don't invest in Trump companies.

If you feel so strongly in favor of him, what is keeping you from investing you life savings in his companies?

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That's a pretty stupid statement. I'm retired and have always taken care of myself, and done a pretty good job of it. I don't expect libs to understand.

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Just making a point -- savvy investers do not invest with Trump. If you do, he'll take your money and leave you with nothing.

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So, all the banks that have underwritten billions of dollars on loans, the largest banks in the world, don't invest with him?

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eric76 said:

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GenericAggie said:

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eric76 said:

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Rockdoc said:

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eric76 said:

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Rockdoc said:

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eric76 said:

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Rockdoc said:

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eric76 said:

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Rockdoc said:

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Foreverconservative said:

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eric76 said:

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Foreverconservative said:

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Antoninus said:

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Rockdoc said:

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How many wealthy people do you know who have liquidity like that ($450mm)? I'm sure you have a list with proof.

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A large number of posters above have assured us that he has dozens of buddies who would gladly front him the money.

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You can bet if Trump calls Steve Wynn, Peter Thiel Carl Icahn or Andrew Beal he can borrow the cash. That bond is petty cash to that group

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Not likely.

If he puts up a bond, the bonding company basically promises that if Trump does not pay, they will. They don't actually give the government the money in advance. Instead, they invest the money.

If they put up the money, they aren't bonding companies and can't just deliver a promise to pay. They would loan the money to Trump who would then put it in escrow, thereby giving up interest on the money while in escrow. That would be a lot of interest for him to give up. In the meantime, the interest he would owe if the judgment is upheld would continue to accrue.

Finally, and perhaps the most important, even if the money is "petty cash" to them, they don't like being scammed of their money. I suspect that any money loaned to Trump would never be paid back. They would surely demand full collateral to cover the debt to avoid being scammed by Trump.

Those who earned their fortunes themselves did not earn them by throwing away money --- they are going to want it back. Perhaps their heirs might be throwing money around when they eventually inherit it, but there are limits to what people who made their fortunes instead of inheriting them are willing to do.

The best thing for Trump would be to find a bonding company who will bond him out on this. That way, he could continue to earn interest on his money. But it is difficult to imagine a bonding company doing that without collateral. From what I've read, they don't want property as collateral, either.

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Okay glad to know you're the spokesperson for a group of people that have done business with Trump for years, funded PACs to help him get elected, and have forgotten more about finance and business than you'll ever know, but carry one with all your expertise.

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All dems are experts at everything don't ya know.

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You may actually be right about that. Trump thinks he's the world's greatest expert on everything.

---

He's done pretty well for himself!

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Football league team, casino, ... ?

He does pretty good at extracting what he can from others and letting them suffer from his many misteps.

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You're going to be so disappointed. I feel for you.

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I don't invest in Trump companies.

If you feel so strongly in favor of him, what is keeping you from investing you life savings in his companies?

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That's a pretty stupid statement. I'm retired and have always taken care of myself, and done a pretty good job of it. I don't expect libs to understand.

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Just making a point -- savvy investers do not invest with Trump. If you do, he'll take your money and leave you with nothing.

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So, all the banks that have underwritten billions of dollars on loans, the largest banks in the world, don't invest with him?

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Are you inferring that when a bank loans you money, that amounts to an investment by them in you and your businesses?

You said, "Just making a point -- savvy investers do not invest with Trump. If you do, he'll take your money and leave you with nothing".

When banks give loans, it's an investment and belief that they will get a return.

Not following your response. Are you saying it's not or are you just being a dick to be a dick?

Remarkable!

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Rongagin71 said:

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I am willing to listen if you can list people that actually say they have been ripped off by Trump, but please don't send a list of Democrat operatives...I want people who were actually wronged not just make believe wronged

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On February 16, Engoron entered his damages award in the case. The amount of his monetary judgment against Donald Trump, exclusive of pre- and post-judgment interest was $355 million (figures are rounded for simplicity). This amount encompasses three categories of claims:

(1) "WINDFALL PROFITS" FROM THE SALE OF THE TRUMP INTERNATIONAL HOTEL

In 2013, Trump acquired the "Old Post Office" building in Washington, D.C. He took out a reported $200 million in loans to refurbish it, and it reopened in 2016 as the Trump International hotel. He sold it in 2022. Although the Opinion does not identify the purchaser, other reporting indicates that it was CGI Merchant Group of Miami.

Engoron found that the refurbishment loans and the sale were tainted by inaccurate financial statements. Because of this, he assumed that the $126,828,600 that Trump personally reaped from the sale was what Engoron called, a "windfall profit." He ordered Trump to disgorge this entire sum to New York.

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(2) "WINDFALL PROFITS" FROM THE SALE OF THE LICENSE AGREEMENT FOR FERRY POINT GOLF COURSE

In 2012 the New York City department of Parks and Recreation awarded Trump a license to operate and maintain a city golf course, known as Ferry Point. In 2023, Trump assigned the Ferry Point license to Bally's Corporation for $60 million. Engoron also characterized that sales price as "windfall profits" because Trump "maintain[ed] the license agreement for Ferry Point based on fraudulent financials." So, like the profits from the sale of the Trump International Hotel, Endoron ordered Trump to pay the $60 million to New York, not to Bally's.

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3) THE "INTEREST RATE DIFFERENTIALS" ON TRUMP'S DEVELOPMENT LOANS

The largest single component of the award against Trump was $168,040,168 based on what Engoron called "interest rate differentials" for four loans. Trump had personally guaranteed each of these loans. When a wealthy individual, such as Trump, personally guarantees a loan to one of his companies, it usually allows him to negotiate a lower interest rate because of the lessened risk to the lender.

For these four loans that Trump personally guaranteed, Engoron calculated the difference between the actual interest rates that Trump paid, and the higher rates that he decided the banks would have charged without the personal guarantees. For the four projects at issue, these differentials totaled $168,040,168. Engoron decided that Trump should also "disgorge" this sum to the State of New York.

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(4) ADDITIONAL INTEREST ON ENGORAN'S JUDGMENT

In addition to the $355 million principal amount of the award, Engoron tacked on pre-judgment interest that reportedly is "about $100 million." And post-judgment interest is accruing at the rate of $111,984 per day or ~$41 million per year. Thus, if it took Trump just a single year to wend his way through New York's appellate court system and then have his case heard by the U.S. Supreme Court, the total monetary judgment against him would be ~$496 million just shy of half a billion dollars! And that does not even count the inevitable losses Trump will incur due to the devastation of his businesses, especially if he is forced to sell properties at fire-sale prices to raise the money for an appeal bond.

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There are many problems with Engoron's award of damages. I will not attempt to discuss them all but will provide just enough background to show how the award runs roughshod over constitutional limits on fines and other punitive awards.

Engoron's judgment clearly is intended to be punitive. It is not paid to any of the banks or purchasers with whom Trump dealt. Rather, his order says that the amounts awarded are "liable to plaintiff," i.e., the State of New York.

Although the State of New York stands to recover a half-billion dollars or more for its treasury, Engoron does not even attempt to make the case that it incurred such a loss. To avoid these problems, James and Endoron characterize the awards payable to New York as "disgorgement" of Trump's "ill-gotten gains." Calling the remedy "disgorgement" avoids the problem that there are no real victims here.

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In United States v. Bajakajian, the defendant was charged with violating federal reporting requirements regarding the transportation of more than $10,000 in currency out of the country. The government sought a forfeiture of the $357,144 involved. The Court held that the forfeiture violated the Excessive Fines Cause. The Court's language shows that the Engoron-ordered "disgorgements" are "fines" within the meaning of the 8th Amendment:

"[A]t the time the Constitution was adopted, the word 'fine' was understood to mean a payment to a sovereign as punishment for some offense." The Excessive Fines Clause thus limits the government's power to extract payments, whether in cash or in kind, 'as punishment for some offense."1

In Trump's case, the first indicia of a fine is that the payments are ordered to be made to the sovereign, the State of New York. And because the payments were not for damages to compensate victims, they clearly are intended as a punishment for the offense of submitting false financial statements.

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Engoron also emphasized that one of his goals in ordering the disgorgements is to deter Trump and others from similar misconduct: "Disgorgement aims to deter wrongdoing by preventing the wrongdoer from retaining ill-gotten gains from fraudulent conduct."

In Bajakajian, however, the Supreme Court tells us that where, as here, deterrence is an objective, it is a marker of a fine and punishment, not of compensation. "Deterrence, however, has traditionally been viewed as a goal of punishment, and forfeiture of the currency here does not serve the remedial purpose of compensating the Government for a loss." And because it is a punishment, the order is a fine: "Because the forfeiture of respondent's currency constitutes punishment it is thus a 'fine' within the meaning of the Excessive Fines Clause."

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Wow, I thought this “fixer-upper” for $14 million in Palm Beach was a good deal until I heard I could get Mar-a-Lago for $18 million! pic.twitter.com/RGjlNOGry4

— Rand Paul (@RandPaul) March 4, 2024

fc2112 said:

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So, tick - tock.

One week away.

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Trump docket: Habba's request for "temporary administrative stay" of $83.3 million judgment for E. Jean Carroll has just be denied by Judge Kaplan. Inner City Press wrote the book (below); story coming https://t.co/pPKaFKexow pic.twitter.com/fozWguzolP

— Inner City Press (@innercitypress) March 7, 2024

NEW: Insurance giant Chubb issues letter to customers defending $91.6 bond for Trump to facilitate his appeal in Carroll libel case. Company calls itself 'part of the justice system plumbing' & says bond 'fully collateralized' if verdict is upheld. Stmt: https://t.co/mhK8jOBUH6

— Josh Gerstein (@joshgerstein) March 13, 2024

aggiehawg said:

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Just received an alert from Forbes that Trump can't get to the 454 million point on the bond to appeal the Engeron order in the Letitia James lawsuit.

If that is accurate, we are squarely in the Pennzoil case territory, IMO.

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Ag with kids said:

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aggiehawg said:

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Just received an alert from Forbes that Trump can't get to the 454 million point on the bond to appeal the Engeron order in the Letitia James lawsuit.

If that is accurate, we are squarely in the Pennzoil case territory, IMO.

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Can you explain what that means?

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Quote:

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Former President Donald Trump can't find an insurance company to underwrite his bond to cover the massive judgment against him in the New York attorney general's civil fraud case, his lawyers told a New York appeals court.

Trump's attorneys said he has approached 30 underwriters to back the bond, which is due by the end of this month.

"The amount of the judgment, with interest, exceeds $464 million, and very few bonding companies will consider a bond of anything approaching that magnitude," Trump's lawyers wrote. (Trump himself was ordered to pay $454 million; the $464 million includes the disgorgement for his adult sons Don Jr. and Eric.)

An insurance broker, Gary Giulietti, who testified for Trump during the civil fraud trial, signed an affidavit stating that securing a bond in the full amount "is a practical impossibility."

Potential underwriters are seeking cash to back the bond, not properties, according to Trump's lawyers.
Trump's lawyers have asked the appeals court to delay posting the bond until his appeal of the case is over, arguing that the value of Trump's properties far exceed the judgment. If the appeals court rules against him, Trump asked the court to delay his posting the bond until his appeal to New York's highest court is heard.

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Trump is appealing the ruling, but in order to stop the state from enforcing the judgment, Trump has to post a bond to be held in an account pending the appellate process, which could take years to litigate.

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But Giulietti said some of the biggest underwriters have internal policies that limit them from securing a bond in excess of $100 million. None of them, he said, including some of the largest insurance companies in the world, will accept real estate they are only comfortable taking cash or stock.
Including fees and interest, he said Trump would need to come up with more than $550 million.

"Over the course of my career, during which I have been directly or indirectly involved in the issuance of thousands of bonds, I have never heard of nor seen an appeal bond of this size for a private company or individual," Giulietti said. "After substantial good-faith effort over the last several weeks, obtaining an appeal bond for the Judgment Amount of over $464 million is just not possible under these circumstances."

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Hopefully the appeals court will see the complete lack of logic in demanding an amount of money that violates the Eighth Amendment to appeal an unreasonable ruling that violates the Eighth Amendment.

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aggiehawg said:

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Quote:

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Hopefully the appeals court will see the complete lack of logic in demanding an amount of money that violates the Eighth Amendment to appeal an unreasonable ruling that violates the Eighth Amendment.

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Under Pennzoil I don't think there is a valid 8th amendment claim and that was billions in bonding requirements.

To be clear, Trump can still appeal but he lacks the ability to forestall collection efforts during that time frame in the absence of the approved bond amount.

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