A_Gang_Ag_06 said:

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And so do a lot of people that "check cows on the weekend." Some of us have full time jobs M-F and spend our time on the weekend tending to cows and a never ending list of maintenance because we want to keep that land in our family, despite it not being thousands of acres that get to play host to a bunch of city people. And I think we got cross threaded on what my original point was. By your definition I would probably fall into the 90%of people losing my ag exemption because of my herd size vs what the state determines it should be. I could easily rape the land and feed hay all summer to meet their demands but if you have to feed hay all spring and summer, you need to reevaluate your herd size.

Agree to disagree.

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I always thought that raising donkeys would be a good way to keep your ag exemption. Easier to feed (relatively, about 1/2 acre per donkey) and nobody wants to steal them.

With no State Income Tax, the money has got to come from somewhere.

CrackerJackAg said:

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The audacity of the owner that says I want more than someone else and shouldn't have to pay his part.

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WTF is this?

I want more than someone else?


I want whatever i've paid for. Are you the hall monitor of equity? You sound like a commie

ABATTBQ11 said:

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I prefer the property taxes. I've lived in my house for 7 years, and my property tax has only gone up about 25%. My income tax has doubled.

Once you hit 65, school district taxes are frozen in Texas. I'd rather have that than worry about how inflation will increase my necessary withdrawals, and this income tax bill, and how to account for that throughout retirement. I can always move to a smaller, cheaper place. I can't stop needing money.

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Property Valuations should be FROZEN at point of purchase and only reset after sale

CrackerJackAg said:

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cheeky said:

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CrackerJackAg said:

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A_Gang_Ag_06 said:

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CrackerJackAg said:

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pacecar02 said:

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CrackerJackAg said:

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The Banned said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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rgag12 said:

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jagvocate said:

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I used to believe the same about income tax. Then I moved to an income tax state with low property taxes. I think I'll take the latter. TX should be ashamed of the games they've allowed tax assessors to play over the years

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As I get older I'm starting to believe this as well. Texas was foolish to pass a constitutional amendment outlawing Income Tax, now we're married to this awful system that can't be fixed.

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You could be in a state with income, sales and property taxes.

Btw, sum up all of the sales tax you pay over the year. That one is worse to me because it is death by a thousand cuts and most people have no idea just how much is taken from you in a year. At least with property tax, you get to see the full amount of your money they are wasting.

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If you don't have the money for sales tax at the store, you put some items back. If property taxes get too high, you lose your house. I'll take the higher sales tax

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Get a cheaper house. I could easily go triple our current situation. I'll keep my 2% interest and ridiculous cheap mortgage and ridiculously cheap property tax.

It's a choice.

---

eff that


Why is the only option to live in a shoebox or a condo


i dont want to live in the city

not fond of neighbors

just want to be left alone

i want to build whatever i want without being nickel and dimed to death

The audacity that the county says i owe some arbitrary amount extra because i built an addition or added a shop has gotten completely out of hand
_________________

Tax increases for a long time far outpaced my raise schedule here in Brazos County, like for more than a decade

I do not think you could find less house lest you moved into a manufactured home



People ought to be able to live without paying the county the equivalent of "rent"

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eff that


You chose the option to not live in a shoebox or a condo

You decided you didn't want to live in the city

You decided you not fond of neighbors and wanted space

We all just want to be left alone

The audacity of the owner that says I want more than someone else and shouldn't have to pay his part.

EVERYONE WANTS THOSE THINGS. IT IS A LUXURY.

The vast majority of Private land in the United States, is owned by less than one percent of the population.

https://www.ers.usda.gov/webdocs/publications/41882/30067_landownership.pdf?v=41143#:~:text=Because%20agriculture%20occupies%20so%20much,3%20percent%20of%20the%20households.

Why do you perceive that you should have all those things when very few people do and get off cheaper than anyone else? Land owners already get ag exemptions etc…

I personally believe ag exemptions should be evaluated on a case by case basis, for whether or not they legitimate benefit to the tax payer (that's why they exist), and probably 90% of them revoked.

You claim to want independence and to be left alone, but in reality, you want to own more than everyone else and be a leech. No one else cares that you want to be left alone and not pay your taxes.

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You lost me on the ag exemption stuff. Under your plan you would be destroying a lot of people's ability to retain land that has been in their family for generations and paid for long ago. We run around 20-30 cows at any given time depending on calf production on 128 acres in south Texas. Idiot lawmakers and bureaucrats in this state think that we should keep 40 minimum because they know nothing of local rainfall and grass quality. By your definition I would probably fall into your 90% losing my ag exemption. Never mind that I maintain my small herd to be as healthy as possible both for them and the land. Without that I would not be able to afford the taxes on the property in my family for five generations. Call me "lol poor" about it if you want but drive through rural STX and see just how many of us "lolpoors" there are you would be destroying.

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If you want the ag exemption then you should maintain a minimum level of production.

I grew up on a few thousand acre ranch with actual production. My family still owns thousands of acres in Texas.

I am not sympathetic to anyone who is taking an exemption with nothing more than lawn ornaments In the pastures.

I am ok with generational land holdings being broken up if you cannot manage them. Use the ag expedition the way it was intended or pay the taxes. You don't have a divine right to a precious limited resource on the cheap just because peepaw bought it.

I imagine there are a lot of people who won't like that, because they are not in the category of production, and just want the land without having to pay the taxes.

More people should be able to own land and it should not be held on the cheap just because somebody else owned it previously.

If you don't pay the taxes on your land, then somebody else has to make up the difference.

I LOVE the property taxes system over income tax. I just think people should pay their fair share.

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Sounds like your family isn't paying much property tax at all on land that peepaw bought.

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They are because it is a legitimate working ranch. I can't tell you what the production levels are because I am not involved for the last 20 years.

More than 2/3s of the land has been bought in my lifetime.
(I'm a man…I'm 40)

They full time employ dozens of workers.

No one there has another full time job and comes down on the weekend to check on the cows.

They have accomidatoons, shooting ranges and multiple lounges and event spaces to host conferences & hunting as well. They maximize income like every legitimate business to the fullest extent.

They earn everything they do.

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What if I started the ranch but now employee enough people to run it for me and sit around drinking martinis all day and porking my super model wife? Do I still get to keep my ag exemption?

Sounds like your family's operation is except I know how to run and grow a ranching operation so well that I no longer have to handle day to day operations and get to travel In luxury.

What if I own the land and have a local farmer grow corn on it and he leases the land for a nominal amount and keeps a good % of the profit. What is wrong with that and would you still let me keep my exemption?

ttu_85 said:

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ClickClack said:

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Move to "liberal" New Hampshire (as I saw so many on this board proclaim).

We have no income tax and no sales tax. Live free or die.

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Nice. Bet lets be honest you are a little itty bitty state in terms of size, population, and eco output. Nothing goes on there. Nothing is built there, people just chill. What would NH be if it had a Dallas or Atlanta. There would be income and sale taxes. Count yourselves lucky

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If an Atlanta. It would be a boss culture and probably "the southern capital in the north". If a Dallas? Prob would turn the state extremely blue. Would have a bunch of soy boys running around like fake southern dudes. Definitely would make NH "where the faux-Southerners escape to the north" or "where gay Texans come to flex their pretentiousness"

pacecar02 said:

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CrackerJackAg said:

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The audacity of the owner that says I want more than someone else and shouldn't have to pay his part.

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WTF is this?

I want more than someone else?


I want whatever i've paid for. Are you the hall monitor of equity? You sound like a commie

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I pay taxes on my home too. If I bought more land or wanted it then I would expect to pay my taxes on it.

WestHoustonAg79 said:

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CrackerJackAg said:

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cheeky said:

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CrackerJackAg said:

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A_Gang_Ag_06 said:

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CrackerJackAg said:

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pacecar02 said:

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CrackerJackAg said:

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The Banned said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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rgag12 said:

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jagvocate said:

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I used to believe the same about income tax. Then I moved to an income tax state with low property taxes. I think I'll take the latter. TX should be ashamed of the games they've allowed tax assessors to play over the years

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As I get older I'm starting to believe this as well. Texas was foolish to pass a constitutional amendment outlawing Income Tax, now we're married to this awful system that can't be fixed.

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You could be in a state with income, sales and property taxes.

Btw, sum up all of the sales tax you pay over the year. That one is worse to me because it is death by a thousand cuts and most people have no idea just how much is taken from you in a year. At least with property tax, you get to see the full amount of your money they are wasting.

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If you don't have the money for sales tax at the store, you put some items back. If property taxes get too high, you lose your house. I'll take the higher sales tax

---

Get a cheaper house. I could easily go triple our current situation. I'll keep my 2% interest and ridiculous cheap mortgage and ridiculously cheap property tax.

It's a choice.

---

eff that


Why is the only option to live in a shoebox or a condo


i dont want to live in the city

not fond of neighbors

just want to be left alone

i want to build whatever i want without being nickel and dimed to death

The audacity that the county says i owe some arbitrary amount extra because i built an addition or added a shop has gotten completely out of hand
_________________

Tax increases for a long time far outpaced my raise schedule here in Brazos County, like for more than a decade

I do not think you could find less house lest you moved into a manufactured home



People ought to be able to live without paying the county the equivalent of "rent"

---

eff that


You chose the option to not live in a shoebox or a condo

You decided you didn't want to live in the city

You decided you not fond of neighbors and wanted space

We all just want to be left alone

The audacity of the owner that says I want more than someone else and shouldn't have to pay his part.

EVERYONE WANTS THOSE THINGS. IT IS A LUXURY.

The vast majority of Private land in the United States, is owned by less than one percent of the population.

https://www.ers.usda.gov/webdocs/publications/41882/30067_landownership.pdf?v=41143#:~:text=Because%20agriculture%20occupies%20so%20much,3%20percent%20of%20the%20households.

Why do you perceive that you should have all those things when very few people do and get off cheaper than anyone else? Land owners already get ag exemptions etc…

I personally believe ag exemptions should be evaluated on a case by case basis, for whether or not they legitimate benefit to the tax payer (that's why they exist), and probably 90% of them revoked.

You claim to want independence and to be left alone, but in reality, you want to own more than everyone else and be a leech. No one else cares that you want to be left alone and not pay your taxes.

---

You lost me on the ag exemption stuff. Under your plan you would be destroying a lot of people's ability to retain land that has been in their family for generations and paid for long ago. We run around 20-30 cows at any given time depending on calf production on 128 acres in south Texas. Idiot lawmakers and bureaucrats in this state think that we should keep 40 minimum because they know nothing of local rainfall and grass quality. By your definition I would probably fall into your 90% losing my ag exemption. Never mind that I maintain my small herd to be as healthy as possible both for them and the land. Without that I would not be able to afford the taxes on the property in my family for five generations. Call me "lol poor" about it if you want but drive through rural STX and see just how many of us "lolpoors" there are you would be destroying.

---

If you want the ag exemption then you should maintain a minimum level of production.

I grew up on a few thousand acre ranch with actual production. My family still owns thousands of acres in Texas.

I am not sympathetic to anyone who is taking an exemption with nothing more than lawn ornaments In the pastures.

I am ok with generational land holdings being broken up if you cannot manage them. Use the ag expedition the way it was intended or pay the taxes. You don't have a divine right to a precious limited resource on the cheap just because peepaw bought it.

I imagine there are a lot of people who won't like that, because they are not in the category of production, and just want the land without having to pay the taxes.

More people should be able to own land and it should not be held on the cheap just because somebody else owned it previously.

If you don't pay the taxes on your land, then somebody else has to make up the difference.

I LOVE the property taxes system over income tax. I just think people should pay their fair share.

---

Sounds like your family isn't paying much property tax at all on land that peepaw bought.

---

They are because it is a legitimate working ranch. I can't tell you what the production levels are because I am not involved for the last 20 years.

More than 2/3s of the land has been bought in my lifetime.
(I'm a man…I'm 40)

They full time employ dozens of workers.

No one there has another full time job and comes down on the weekend to check on the cows.

They have accomidatoons, shooting ranges and multiple lounges and event spaces to host conferences & hunting as well. They maximize income like every legitimate business to the fullest extent.

They earn everything they do.

---

What if I started the ranch but now employee enough people to run it for me and sit around drinking martinis all day and porking my super model wife? Do I still get to keep my ag exemption?

Sounds like your family's operation is except I know how to run and grow a ranching operation so well that I no longer have to handle day to day operations and get to travel In luxury.

What if I own the land and have a local farmer grow corn on it and he leases the land for a nominal amount and keeps a good % of the profit. What is wrong with that and would you still let me keep my exemption?

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I think you answered your own question. The ranch has to be functional. Sounds like it would be.

one safe place said:

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ABATTBQ11 said:

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I prefer the property taxes. I've lived in my house for 7 years, and my property tax has only gone up about 25%. My income tax has doubled.

Once you hit 65, school district taxes are frozen in Texas. I'd rather have that than worry about how inflation will increase my necessary withdrawals, and this income tax bill, and how to account for that throughout retirement. I can always move to a smaller, cheaper place. I can't stop needing money.

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If your income tax doubled, it is due to an increase in your taxable income. Income generally comes from money that you can spend.

Property taxes are based on what someone else feels your property is worth.

You can tweak your taxable income by deferring income and/or gains, accelerating deductions, making retirement plan contributions or deferrals. Even if you do nothing, you at least have increased income with which to pay the doubling of the income tax.

Property tax increases are due mostly to unrealized increases in value and are similar to the wealth tax proposals discussed in Kalifornia and other places. You have realized nothing with which to pay increased taxes. You only have a statement from the appraisal district showing how much your property is worth. Can't really spend that.

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I understand how taxes work. I am well aware of the difference between income and unrealized appreciation.

You can try to avoid some income taxes through deferment, but you will never avoid them entirely. I can avoid a lot of property taxes by simply not living in the nicest and best house I can afford. They will inevitably increase, but not by as much as my income and any income taxes.

I know how property is valued. Is anyone here claiming their property value is arbitrary? Is anyone arguing that their property is vastly overvalued? The overwhelming majority of property valuations are in line with market values, so I see no problem on the valuation just being off what someone feels.

My income has increased at a faster rate than my property has appreciated, and I would be paying more in income taxes than property taxes over the same time period. Not being invested in real estate beyond my home, real estate taxes don't really mean much to me. What does mean something to me is income taxes on significant interest and dividend income that I reinvest. As my investments grow, the taxes on those grow. And as my income grows, income tax grows. For me, a state income tax would inevitably cost me more over the long run.

And once I retire, if I'm in Texas my property taxes, at least for schools, freeze, and I still have the homestead exemption and taxable value increase cap. So again, my property taxes will stay relatively flat. My income in the form of withdrawals, on the other hand, will necessarily increase with inflation because everyone has to buy things to live. It'll probably also increase with medical bills as I age. That means an income tax bill will also increase as I age, becoming a larger drain on my retirement savings. Could I simply withdraw more to cover the bill? Sure, but that's a bad strategy when you're retired and living off investment income. Why would anyone over 65 prefer an ever increasing income tax bill over a relatively flat property tax?

The people constantly *****ing about property taxes are also the ones heavily invested in real estate or living in large homes in nice areas. They choose those things knowing the tax burden. I live in a cheap house in a cheap area. It's certainly worth a lot more than I paid, but not nearly enough for me to be concerned about the taxes. I could move somewhere nicer and more affluent, but I choose not to because I'm not putting that money into a house and higher property taxes.

Quote:

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Property Taxes Are Evil

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Devil's minions.

From an accounting perspective, the issue with property as the basis for taxation is that it is not liquid. We obviously want our values to go up and that would imply a higher tax bill. But that higher value has zero cash flow impact. So how do we pay for this growing tax bill every year?

Taxation based on income at least is based off something where you are receiving a liquid asset in cash to actually pay the dang taxes.

In addition, there is really no long term (and often no short term) predictability with property tax valuations and bills. So how does one seemingly afford to live somewhere one day and then 20 years later they may very well not be able to?

Why does the state get to profit from our homes values increasing in the first place? Is the cost to pay for roads and bridges and government workers increasing by the same level our home values are going up?

Property taxes (in Texas and likely most every where else) are not about taxing the value of your property or the government "profiting" from the increase.

Property values are just the method used to apportion the costs out to the local property owners who benefit from the services a local government or entity is providing.

If property values go up 10%, 20%, 1000% across the board, but the local school district or port authority or drainage district budgets all stayed the same, property taxes would not increase, the tax rate would just drop in proportion with the value increase and everybody would pay the same amount.

The problem, as always, is government not being held accountable for needing more and more and more money, and they are more than happy of using the misconception that "values go up tax goes up" as a convenient "common knowledge"

BMCaginLTX said:

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Just needed to get that off my chest after dropping a check off at the Big Landlord's office.
Thank you

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What did you pay?
I just paid about 7k for half a year

And you get taxed on the income you used to pay state property taxes over 10k...

Well, I'll state it again. For everyone wanting state income tax instead of a property tax be wary of what you wish for because the reality of would happen is a devils bargain where we get both and then the government is f'ing you two ways at once.

Take the relative W of just having property tax. If you can't afford it, then downgrade your home or rent instead.

10andBOUNCE said:

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From an accounting perspective, the issue with property as the basis for taxation is that it is not liquid. We obviously want our values to go up and that would imply a higher tax bill. But that higher value has zero cash flow impact. So how do we pay for this growing tax bill every year?

Taxation based on income at least is based off something where you are receiving a liquid asset in cash to actually pay the dang taxes.

In addition, there is really no long term (and often no short term) predictability with property tax valuations and bills. So how does one seemingly afford to live somewhere one day and then 20 years later they may very well not be able to?

Why does the state get to profit from our homes values increasing in the first place? Is the cost to pay for roads and bridges and government workers increasing by the same level our home values are going up?

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Are you saying state as in generic government or State as in State of Texas?

Other than recapture your property taxes do not go to the State of Texas, so let's clear that up right away. All property taxes rates and valuations are set locally by local officials. They are used locally for local services - maintenance of infrastructure, police, fire, school, debt retirement, etc
People with higher value real estate have more to lose than people with lower value real estate. They expect higher quality of service and faster response. Why shouldn't these services come at a higher cost? Did I mention these issues are determined locally?

Finally, please elaborate of the use of the word profit. I would like to know where the excess is going.

rgag12 said:

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jagvocate said:

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I used to believe the same about income tax. Then I moved to an income tax state with low property taxes. I think I'll take the latter. TX should be ashamed of the games they've allowed tax assessors to play over the years

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As I get older I'm starting to believe this as well. Texas was foolish to pass a constitutional amendment outlawing Income Tax, now we're married to this awful system that can't be fixed.

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Both personal property tax and personal state income tax can be manipulated. Property tax in Texas is based on appraisal and can be abused. A more equitable method would be based on sq ft of the home and sq ft of the property. No exceptions other than for farm land. That would leave only the amount per sq. ft. to be changed.
Personal income tax comes with a cornucopia of methods for social change in the unending list of exemptions. If an income tax were restricted to no exceptions it could be more equitable.

Both could be narrowly defined which would eliminate the need for many of current jobs in state government, which would benefit everyone. Seems in Texas many of the people in the advalorem tax departments for companies and corporations were previously in the state tax appraisal departments, wonder why?

The state definitely punishes people based on what they believe the value of our property is.

Kansas Kid said:

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rgag12 said:

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jagvocate said:

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I used to believe the same about income tax. Then I moved to an income tax state with low property taxes. I think I'll take the latter. TX should be ashamed of the games they've allowed tax assessors to play over the years

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As I get older I'm starting to believe this as well. Texas was foolish to pass a constitutional amendment outlawing Income Tax, now we're married to this awful system that can't be fixed.

---

You could be in a state with income, sales and property taxes.

Btw, sum up all of the sales tax you pay over the year. That one is worse to me because it is death by a thousand cuts and most people have no idea just how much is taken from you in a year. At least with property tax, you get to see the full amount of your money they are wasting.

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Haven't checked lately but in Texas and including federal tax there was $0.51/gal added to each purchase. Needs to end and something else added as the % of EVs hit the road and get a freebee.

Quote:

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Is the cost to pay for roads and bridges and government workers increasing by the same level our home values are going up?

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To a great extent the answer here is yes... inflation impacts prices for all entities.

DallasTeleAg said:

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Yep.... don't even remind me of how much i pay in taxes between my income tax, property tax, and sales tax...

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let alone the % of each purchase in which the companies paid property taxes and income taxes. In the past the corporate income tax was 35% of which they paid none as it was built into the price you and I paid.

Everyone on this board would be up in arms over a wealth tax that taxed unrealized stock gains on an annual basis. Why the seeming support for property taxes?

Income taxes tax a liquid asset (income). Sales and use taxes are somewhat voluntary based on purchases that you choose to make within your budget.

Property taxes tax an illiquid asset's assessed (guessed) value. But you can't sell a fraction of your house to pay the bill like you can sell a fraction of a stock portfolio to pay the tax bill.

I view property taxes as the most unfair tax because you can literally be taxed out of your home.

The state is going to get their money one way or another. Put me in the anti high property tax camp. Just as I'm anti-wealth tax.

Tax liquid assets, not illiquid assets.

txrancher69 said:

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Actually here in Texas you can defer your property taxes indefinitely by signing an affidavit at the tax office if you are over 65 or disabled. The taxes don't go away, they accrue with interest and have to be paid when the home is sold by your heirs, or when you move out, say to assisted living. But in the meanwhile if you have limited or fixed income it can help your cash flow. Gov entities do not want you to know about it because it starves their cash flow and a lot of younger people think it is unfair that olds can do this. But still, in some circumstances this is a very viable option.

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Interesting. Depending on the interest you would be paying back the accrued debt with less valuable dollars, especially with the current rates of inflation. Is it possible to set this up then when opportune before you move out pay down the accrued debt?

richardag said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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rgag12 said:

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jagvocate said:

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I used to believe the same about income tax. Then I moved to an income tax state with low property taxes. I think I'll take the latter. TX should be ashamed of the games they've allowed tax assessors to play over the years

---

As I get older I'm starting to believe this as well. Texas was foolish to pass a constitutional amendment outlawing Income Tax, now we're married to this awful system that can't be fixed.

---

You could be in a state with income, sales and property taxes.

Btw, sum up all of the sales tax you pay over the year. That one is worse to me because it is death by a thousand cuts and most people have no idea just how much is taken from you in a year. At least with property tax, you get to see the full amount of your money they are wasting.

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Haven't checked lately but in Texas and including federal tax there was $0.51/gal added to each purchase. Needs to end and something else added as the % of EVs hit the road and get a freebee.

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I think EVs pay an extra $200 in Texas for registration to offset the gas tax avoided. Some have talked about an odometer tax but that seems Big Borther like to me and if you are traveling across the country, you would be paying Texas for every mile driven. EVs do need to pay their share of maintaining the roads assuming you keep the gas tax.

richardag said:

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txrancher69 said:

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Actually here in Texas you can defer your property taxes indefinitely by signing an affidavit at the tax office if you are over 65 or disabled. The taxes don't go away, they accrue with interest and have to be paid when the home is sold by your heirs, or when you move out, say to assisted living. But in the meanwhile if you have limited or fixed income it can help your cash flow. Gov entities do not want you to know about it because it starves their cash flow and a lot of younger people think it is unfair that olds can do this. But still, in some circumstances this is a very viable option.

---

Interesting. Depending on the interest you would be paying back the accrued debt with less valuable dollars, especially with the current rates of inflation. Is it possible to set this up then when opportune before you move out pay down the accrued debt?

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Yes, you can pay it off at any time.

HDeathstar said:

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Let's not kid ourselves thinking property taxes are the only reason you do not "own" your house.

If there was NO property taxes and you did not pay your income taxes, they are still coming after your house (asset). If you do not pay your income or property taxes they are coming for all your assets. Just because "property taxes" are based on your property, doesn't mean you lose your house, you lose an asset which may be your house.

Extreme case for Property Tax vs. Income:
Annual Property taxes encourages property owners to make the property productive. Theoretically, with no property taxes, a rich person could buy up as much land as possible and hold it forever. We would all have to move or be renters for life. Sure, at the right price people will sell, but a rich person (think Saudi crown prince) can push that price well above the market and keep the land unproductive. If Texas did not property tax, you bet foreign people would buy and hold the land just as a shelter for cash.

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Very good points in this post. I am not completely defending property tax system however consider the following -

We pay taxes mainly to protect our property and assets (think roads, fire department, general education and literacy, police, etc. that effectively protect real property). The more value in property that you have, the more you should likely chip in to the systems that ensure the value of those assets.

I say this as someone who has family with lots of property. As stated above, our recreational places are now often utilized as short term rentals. 5-10 years ago and before this was not an option and it is really nice being able to put places to positive economic use that once sat empty for much of the year.

Consider as well this scenario. We have lake property in a small community. There have been a few businesses in the last 30 years in this town but they struggle as there are not enough people to support much activity. Most people with lake property in the area have had them as 2nd homes and this has been the case for over 30 years. NOW, the homes are very often used, there is much more economic activity with guests coming in and out, maids and maintenance are needed locally, occupancy tax is collected (a LOT of occupancy tax), and in my very humble opinion, the town and locals in the town are MUCH better off due to the short term market opening up.

Certainly the system gets gamed by politicians but rising property values are real, healthy, and that "unrealized gain" represents actual valuations that need to have assets assigned to them to properly protect these assets.

txrancher69 said:

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richardag said:

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txrancher69 said:

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Actually here in Texas you can defer your property taxes indefinitely by signing an affidavit at the tax office if you are over 65 or disabled. The taxes don't go away, they accrue with interest and have to be paid when the home is sold by your heirs, or when you move out, say to assisted living. But in the meanwhile if you have limited or fixed income it can help your cash flow. Gov entities do not want you to know about it because it starves their cash flow and a lot of younger people think it is unfair that olds can do this. But still, in some circumstances this is a very viable option.

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Interesting. Depending on the interest you would be paying back the accrued debt with less valuable dollars, especially with the current rates of inflation. Is it possible to set this up then when opportune before you move out pay down the accrued debt?

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Yes, you can pay it off at any time.

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Thanks for the reply.

Would take discipline to use the amount of taxes owed to buy into income producing assets that equaled or bettered inflation while potentially paying off the debt with dollars that lost value during inflation. Still depends on the interest they charge on the deferred taxes.

Hogties said:

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Everyone on this board would be up in arms over a wealth tax that taxed unrealized stock gains on an annual basis. Why the seeming support for property taxes?

Income taxes tax a liquid asset (income). Sales and use taxes are somewhat voluntary based on purchases that you choose to make within your budget.

Property taxes tax an illiquid asset's assessed (guessed) value. But you can't sell a fraction of your house to pay the bill like you can sell a fraction of a stock portfolio to pay the tax bill.

I view property taxes as the most unfair tax because you can literally be taxed out of your home.

The state is going to get their money one way or another. Put me in the anti high property tax camp. Just as I'm anti-wealth tax.

Tax liquid assets, not illiquid assets.

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Au contraire. Property tax is the most equitable tax because even LOLpoor renters contribute to it. On the other hand, you have the option to invest in stocks and don't pay tax until you sell them. You're just mad because you can't live in a stock or mutual fund.

CrackerJackAg said:

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cheeky said:

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CrackerJackAg said:

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A_Gang_Ag_06 said:

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CrackerJackAg said:

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pacecar02 said:

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CrackerJackAg said:

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The Banned said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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rgag12 said:

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jagvocate said:

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I used to believe the same about income tax. Then I moved to an income tax state with low property taxes. I think I'll take the latter. TX should be ashamed of the games they've allowed tax assessors to play over the years

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As I get older I'm starting to believe this as well. Texas was foolish to pass a constitutional amendment outlawing Income Tax, now we're married to this awful system that can't be fixed.

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You could be in a state with income, sales and property taxes.

Btw, sum up all of the sales tax you pay over the year. That one is worse to me because it is death by a thousand cuts and most people have no idea just how much is taken from you in a year. At least with property tax, you get to see the full amount of your money they are wasting.

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If you don't have the money for sales tax at the store, you put some items back. If property taxes get too high, you lose your house. I'll take the higher sales tax

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Get a cheaper house. I could easily go triple our current situation. I'll keep my 2% interest and ridiculous cheap mortgage and ridiculously cheap property tax.

It's a choice.

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eff that


Why is the only option to live in a shoebox or a condo


i dont want to live in the city

not fond of neighbors

just want to be left alone

i want to build whatever i want without being nickel and dimed to death

The audacity that the county says i owe some arbitrary amount extra because i built an addition or added a shop has gotten completely out of hand
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Tax increases for a long time far outpaced my raise schedule here in Brazos County, like for more than a decade

I do not think you could find less house lest you moved into a manufactured home



People ought to be able to live without paying the county the equivalent of "rent"

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eff that


You chose the option to not live in a shoebox or a condo

You decided you didn't want to live in the city

You decided you not fond of neighbors and wanted space

We all just want to be left alone

The audacity of the owner that says I want more than someone else and shouldn't have to pay his part.

EVERYONE WANTS THOSE THINGS. IT IS A LUXURY.

The vast majority of Private land in the United States, is owned by less than one percent of the population.

https://www.ers.usda.gov/webdocs/publications/41882/30067_landownership.pdf?v=41143#:~:text=Because%20agriculture%20occupies%20so%20much,3%20percent%20of%20the%20households.

Why do you perceive that you should have all those things when very few people do and get off cheaper than anyone else? Land owners already get ag exemptions etc…

I personally believe ag exemptions should be evaluated on a case by case basis, for whether or not they legitimate benefit to the tax payer (that's why they exist), and probably 90% of them revoked.

You claim to want independence and to be left alone, but in reality, you want to own more than everyone else and be a leech. No one else cares that you want to be left alone and not pay your taxes.

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You lost me on the ag exemption stuff. Under your plan you would be destroying a lot of people's ability to retain land that has been in their family for generations and paid for long ago. We run around 20-30 cows at any given time depending on calf production on 128 acres in south Texas. Idiot lawmakers and bureaucrats in this state think that we should keep 40 minimum because they know nothing of local rainfall and grass quality. By your definition I would probably fall into your 90% losing my ag exemption. Never mind that I maintain my small herd to be as healthy as possible both for them and the land. Without that I would not be able to afford the taxes on the property in my family for five generations. Call me "lol poor" about it if you want but drive through rural STX and see just how many of us "lolpoors" there are you would be destroying.

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If you want the ag exemption then you should maintain a minimum level of production.

I grew up on a few thousand acre ranch with actual production. My family still owns thousands of acres in Texas.

I am not sympathetic to anyone who is taking an exemption with nothing more than lawn ornaments In the pastures.

I am ok with generational land holdings being broken up if you cannot manage them. Use the ag expedition the way it was intended or pay the taxes. You don't have a divine right to a precious limited resource on the cheap just because peepaw bought it.

I imagine there are a lot of people who won't like that, because they are not in the category of production, and just want the land without having to pay the taxes.

More people should be able to own land and it should not be held on the cheap just because somebody else owned it previously.

If you don't pay the taxes on your land, then somebody else has to make up the difference.

I LOVE the property taxes system over income tax. I just think people should pay their fair share.

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Sounds like your family isn't paying much property tax at all on land that peepaw bought.

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They are because it is a legitimate working ranch. I can't tell you what the production levels are because I am not involved for the last 20 years.

More than 2/3s of the land has been bought in my lifetime.
(I'm a man…I'm 40)

They full time employ dozens of workers.

No one there has another full time job and comes down on the weekend to check on the cows.

They have accomidatoons, shooting ranges and multiple lounges and event spaces to host conferences & hunting as well. They maximize income like every legitimate business to the fullest extent.

They earn everything they do.

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Now I'm convinced they pay very little income tax, either. Just barely break even after all those "expenses" right? Fortunately, there are others doing the heavy lifting to keep schools and hospitals open, roads paved, law enforcement, national defense, etc. Utopia, indeed.

Kansas Kid said:

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richardag said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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rgag12 said:

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jagvocate said:

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I used to believe the same about income tax. Then I moved to an income tax state with low property taxes. I think I'll take the latter. TX should be ashamed of the games they've allowed tax assessors to play over the years

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As I get older I'm starting to believe this as well. Texas was foolish to pass a constitutional amendment outlawing Income Tax, now we're married to this awful system that can't be fixed.

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You could be in a state with income, sales and property taxes.

Btw, sum up all of the sales tax you pay over the year. That one is worse to me because it is death by a thousand cuts and most people have no idea just how much is taken from you in a year. At least with property tax, you get to see the full amount of your money they are wasting.

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Haven't checked lately but in Texas and including federal tax there was $0.51/gal added to each purchase. Needs to end and something else added as the % of EVs hit the road and get a freebee.

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I think EVs pay an extra $200 in Texas for registration to offset the gas tax avoided. Some have talked about an odometer tax but that seems Big Borther like to me and if you are traveling across the country, you would be paying Texas for every mile driven. EVs do need to pay their share of maintaining the roads assuming you keep the gas tax.

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A federal vehicle mileage usage fee was passed in the Infrastructure Law to capture all vehicle types. It just hasn't been implemented yet because they are studying the mechanics by which to assess mileage. In other words, how will they implement big brother mileage tracking. Software? Annual mileage checks?

And, you can almost guarantee that the federal government will leave the gas tax in place once they implement it so that ICE owners will have to pay both as a means to force them into EVs. Book it.