I agree with you broadly but prepare to be slammed by the resident BEV fan club members.

In advance, their real only point will be that some BEV's are being sold today without cobalt, but that is really just for one brand and it's not by any means the only metal being mined as such for these batteries/toy cars.

In short, as I have said before, all sources of energy have their application, but none should be mandated. The Green New Deal is not green, not new, and definitely not a deal.

Batteries are probably worse for the planet than CO2

They're not brand dependent, it's just every LFP battery is cobalt free. Every brand is going to use them, because they're 30% cheaper and viable for long range vehicles.

I'm with Aggiehog. I will never buy an electric vehicle. And neither should any conservative nor anyone whom loves America. Make your next car a gasoline car.
Mechanics need work as well, so you are investing into the economy in more ways than one by purchasing a gasoline or diesel vehicle.

The cost of electric vehicles may experience a decline in cost as more are available. But if most everyone is driving EVs, then the cost of production is going to go up and that will increase the cost on the showroom floor because there will be a lack of oil and gas production.

TheGreatEscape said:

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I'm with Aggiehog. I will never buy an electric vehicle. And neither should any conservative nor anyone whom loves America. Make your next car a gasoline car.
Mechanics need work as well, so you are investing into the economy in more ways than one by purchasing a gasoline or diesel vehicle.

The cost of electric vehicles may experience a decline in cost as more are available. But if most everyone is driving EVs, then the cost of production is going to go up and that will increase the cost on the showroom floor.

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Not how things work. The more of something you produce the further the costs fall. Cost reductions are a function of volume and time, as your produce more of something you get to spread fixed costs/non-production costs over more units and the more you produce something the better you get at producing it.


EVs are going to get simultaneously cheaper and better over the next 20 years.

boboguitar said:

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A US with nuclear as the fallback option and solar/windmill farms would be ideal.

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natural gas supplemented with nuclear and solar. Wind farms are garbage.

Prexys Moon said:

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Burdizzo said:

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ttu_85 said:

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That area just west of Lubbock to west of Midland Odessa would be perfect. Nothing there but pump jacks. Let Texas power the nation.

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Covering Lubbock would be a good start.

Can we cover Baton Rouge too?

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Austin, SF, Chicago, and Manhattan. Oh and LA. Level it and do solar panels

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D.C. ?

Reno Hightower said:

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Small modular Thorium reactors. Take up less space and more energy.

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IMHO the power grid needs to be composed of numerous small power generation stations.

• much harder to target by bad actors, terrorists, rogue governments
• control should be local responsibility not federal,
• reduced chance of major outages reducing the people & industries affected.
• easier to harden against EMP attacks?

Disadvantage would be linking all of them together to cover for individual loss of a power plant.

richardag said:

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Reno Hightower said:

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Small modular Thorium reactors. Take up less space and more energy.

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IMHO the power grid needs to be composed of numerous small power generation stations.

• much harder to target by bad actors, terrorists, rogue governments
• control should be local responsibility not federal,
• reduced chance of major outages reducing the people & industries affected.
• easier to harden against EMP attacks?

Disadvantage would be linking all of them together to cover for individual loss of a power plant.

---

Similarly, a grid well maintained by the regulatory body, and providers that are not incentivized/beaten about with respect to 'renewable' or 'carbon' power preferences, and also an elimination of more regulatory hurdles for small and micro nuclear makes a lot of sense, as well as an open market for consumers to choose their power provider.

Texas "CREZ" zones are the first thing that we should as a state go after eliminating. Random link, but we shouldn't be encouraging these subsidies/effects with state-level legislation. It ultimately leads to brown outs and high rates. If a city like Round Rock etc. wants to go all 'renewable' they should do so on their own.

hph6203 said:

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TheGreatEscape said:

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I'm with Aggiehog. I will never buy an electric vehicle. And neither should any conservative nor anyone whom loves America. Make your next car a gasoline car.
Mechanics need work as well, so you are investing into the economy in more ways than one by purchasing a gasoline or diesel vehicle.

The cost of electric vehicles may experience a decline in cost as more are available. But if most everyone is driving EVs, then the cost of production is going to go up and that will increase the cost on the showroom floor.

---

Not how things work. The more of something you produce the further the costs fall. Cost reductions are a function of volume and time, as your produce more of something you get to spread fixed costs/non-production costs over more units and the more you produce something the better you get at producing it.


EVs are going to get simultaneously cheaper and better over the next 20 years.

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Sir, you have a faulty premise.

The less the demand is for oil and gas to be pumped from the ground, the cost of production of said petroleum pumping will increase, as well as a plethora of petrochemical products, as well as the drive to prospect for oil and gas to make it profitable, as well as the very make up of cost upon the fiberglass and other plastics like vinyl (a product I forgot to mention).

Not to mention that regions in Texas depend upon oil and gas to sustain their economy. When you take that away, then vehicles will loose on that end of sales, too.

What will happen is American oil will be negated over foreign oil, which will both drive up the cost of oil and will give foreign investors even more influence in American politics as well as American geopolitics.

richardag said:

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Reno Hightower said:

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Small modular Thorium reactors. Take up less space and more energy.

---

IMHO the power grid needs to be composed of numerous small power generation stations.

• much harder to target by bad actors, terrorists, rogue governments
• control should be local responsibility not federal,
• reduced chance of major outages reducing the people & industries affected.
• easier to harden against EMP attacks?

Disadvantage would be linking all of them together to cover for individual loss of a power plant.

---

Good post.

Bolded the above to point out that power plants are already linked together in a grid. Because any power plant can fail and they all have to shut down at times for periodic maintenance.

When you talk about that you're talking about the underlying material cost, not the finished product cost. The cost of a plastic part in a vehicle is not primarily the material cost, but rather the process to form the plastic. You could triple the cost of plastic and it wouldn't offset the cost reductions coming for EVs due to the more simple production processes compared to ICE vehicles.

nortex97 said:

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richardag said:

---

Reno Hightower said:

---

Small modular Thorium reactors. Take up less space and more energy.

---

IMHO the power grid needs to be composed of numerous small power generation stations.

• much harder to target by bad actors, terrorists, rogue governments
• control should be local responsibility not federal,
• reduced chance of major outages reducing the people & industries affected.
• easier to harden against EMP attacks?

Disadvantage would be linking all of them together to cover for individual loss of a power plant.

---

Similarly, a grid well maintained by the regulatory body, and providers that are not incentivized/beaten about with respect to 'renewable' or 'carbon' power preferences, and also an elimination of more regulatory hurdles for small and micro nuclear makes a lot of sense, as well as an open market for consumers to choose their power provider.

Texas "CREZ" zones are the first thing that we should as a state go after eliminating. Random link, but we shouldn't be encouraging these subsidies/effects with state-level legislation. It ultimately leads to brown outs and high rates. If a city like Round Rock etc. wants to go all 'renewable' they should do so on their own.

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Agreed

TheGreatEscape said:

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hph6203 said:

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TheGreatEscape said:

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….. (cut to save space)

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…,,, (cut to save space)

Sir, you have a faulty premise.

The less the demand is for oil and gas to be pumped from the ground, the cost of production of said petroleum pumping will increase, as well as a plethora of petrochemical products, as well as the drive to prospect for oil and gas to make it profitable, as well as the very make up of cost upon the fiberglass and other plastics like vinyl (a product I forgot to mention).

Not to mention that regions in Texas depend upon oil and gas to sustain their economy. When you take that away, then vehicles will loose on that end of sales, too.

What will happen is American oil will be negated over foreign oil, which will both drive up the cost of oil and will give foreign investors even more influence in American politics as well as American geopolitics.

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plethora of petrochemical products
It is astonishing the number of products made from petroleum and gas
PRODUCTS MADE FROM OIL AND NATURAL GAS

• Petrochemicals derived from oil and natural gas make the manufacturing of over 6,000 everyday products.

I would say 6,000 is definitely a plethora

That's what i am stating. I hope we don't science our way out into an economic disaster.
It's attractive and fun. But needs to be regulated if oil is regulated, which oil and gas are, unfortunately.

If the science works out, then there needs to be a compromise theorized as a fall back plan.

However, I would fight against "alternative" energy…even
if I were the last man standing.

I do not want to depend on foreign oil and their investors with their hands in our pie. Cost of everything will go up.
Cost of diesel needed for tractor trailers and trains will go up. This will affect shipping costs for everything.
Just keep thinking about the implications before we science our way out of an economy.

TheGreatEscape said:

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That's what i am stating. I hope we don't science our way out into an economic disaster.
It's attractive and fun. But needs to be regulated if oil is regulated, which oil and gas are, unfortunately.

If the science works out, then there needs to be a compromise theorized as a fall back plan.

However, I would fight against "alternative" energy…even
if I were the last man standing.

I do not want to depend on foreign oil and their investors with their hands in our pie. Cost of everything will go up.
Cost of diesel needed for tractor trailers and trains will go up. This will affect shipping costs for everything.
Just keep thinking about the implications before we science our way out of an economy.

---

The idiots pushing the green new deal have no idea the absolute economic catastrophe they are pushing.

Free flow again from GreatEscape:


Cowards buy from China
Without a cause to change this
They must be so prideful
That they hope to be so famous

I cannot stop this lecture
Listen men with grey hair
The times are a-changin'
when Dylan was inspired

Nowadays are lacking
Without a foresight grasping
You're just like the young man
Looking for that honey

You just try to relate
Support the reprobate
Having all the controls
To make the money go

For you are like a fad
Fading like the grass
And if you die like this
You are gone with the last

Cut off your sons
From the trust fund
If they don't repent
The Money cannot win

For their Marx…ism
Has Become your sin

Grace and Peace,

Joshua W.