Full interview
— Gummi Bear (@gummibear737) December 29, 2023
Sagaar mentions Ben Shapiro at the 8:50 mark in the question that prompted Tucker’s attackhttps://t.co/mzPfYZpDqu
Quote:
What's with the right-on-right conflict?
It likely appeals to the general disagreeable nature that is far stronger in the right leaning side. The right side should always be seen as having more fights but the fights won't be as downright nasty as the ones that happen on the left (Obama vs HRC).Waffledynamics said:
What's with the right-on-right conflict?
I'm hesitant to enter into the argument between Tucker and Shapiro, but here goes. Questions of dual-loyalty are always tricky, and they have frequently led to the bouts of paranoid persecution we now remember in shame. But while some topics must be handled with great care, none…
— Martyr Made (@martyrmade) December 30, 2023
Quote:
I'm hesitant to enter into the argument between Tucker and Shapiro, but here goes. Questions of dual-loyalty are always tricky, and they have frequently led to the bouts of paranoid persecution we now remember in shame. But while some topics must be handled with great care, none should be off-limits from good faith discussion. Shapiro actually agrees with this, depending on who's asking the question and what he thinks they mean by it. For example, he was once asked by an Israeli interviewer why he doesn't move to Israel:
Interviewer: "Do you ever wonder if you'll have to flee the United States (for Israel)?"
Shapiro: "Of course... The existence of the State of Israel is the single greatest guarantor of my loyalty to the United States, frankly. Because Israel exists, that means the United States is going to be a more welcoming place for me, because Israel is there as a backstop in case anything should go wrong."
Interviewer: "But I think you tried to dodge the question."
Shapiro: *laughs*
An Israeli publication, writing about the exchange, noted, "(Shapiro) affects millions of Americans and, being a believing and practicing Jew, he can justly be said to be on shlichut - emissary work for Judaism and Israel." Shapiro has also said that one reason he does not move to Israel is that he can do more good for Israel by using his influence in the United States to Israel's benefit.
That last bit is key, and it's something that many anti-Zionist Jews (which meant most Jews before the 1930s or '40s) worried about. The citizenship oath repeated by all immigrants to the US says: "I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty... that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic... and that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."
Being an emissary for Judaism does not suggest any unacceptable dual-loyalty. Most Christians I know, if the United States started actively persecuting Christians, would side with their faith over their country. But the message of Zionism is that Jewishness = Israel = Judaism, an equation that carries with it the question of whether one's loyalty to his faith is synonymous with loyalty to a foreign state. Everyone was aware of this problem when Zionism was getting off the ground. In fact, the concern was so front-of-mind that the Balfour Declaration, though only 115 words long, made room to address the concern. Shapiro himself once said on Dave Rubin's show that a Jew is not really a Jew at all if they aren't committed supporters of the State of Israel. He wasn't speaking figuratively: He was responding to a question about Jewish leftists in the US, and was making the clear point that people who did not adhere to Judaism and support the State of Israel were not actually Jews at all (an awkward thing to say in front of an outspoken Jewish atheist like Rubin).
Jews are far from unique in being suspected of harboring dual loyalties. Most hyphenated-Americans have had to deal with it at some point, not because of Americans' inherent bigotry and paranoia, but because it's a natural question to ask in a multi-cultural society. German- and Italian-Americans fought against their origin countries in World War 2, eager for the opportunity to prove they were Americans first. If the American people decided that it was no longer in our interest to support Israel, or if, perhaps, we decided it was necessary to sanction, blockade, or war with Israel, would Shapiro send his sons to sign up for the US Army or would he move his family to Israel and enlist them in the IDF?
The fact that Jews are white muddies the thinking of many people on this issue. There are almost as many Chinese-Americans as there are Jewish-Americans. If cable news channels were holding panels to debate US policy toward Taiwan, and if everyone on the panel was Chinese-American and arguing that we should let Taiwan be returned to China, everybody would immediately raise a suspicious eyebrow, and rightly so.
When Biden took office, the Israel Times published a celebratory article noting that the new Secretary of State, Deputy Secretary of State, CIA Deputy Director, Attorney General, Director of National Intelligence, WH Chief of Staff, Director of Science & Tech Policy, Director of Homeland Security, NSA cybersecurity director, and Treasury Secretary were all Jewish-Americans. They all just look like run-of-the-mill white people, so hardly anyone noticed except Jews and anti-Semites, but you can be sure that everyone would have noticed if all of those Cabinet positions were filled by Chinese-Americans, especially if the Biden administration unconditionally took China's side in a global controversy. It would raise reasonable questions and it wouldn't be anti-Chinese to ask them.
The trouble with any discussion of dual loyalty is that it's hard to ask general questions without the answers affecting individuals. It begins with questioning whether Shapiro is advocating on behalf of America's or Israel's best interests, but soon enough some people use the opportunity to suggest that Jews in general are disloyal to the United States - an ugly suggestion with which no one should wish to be associated. The important thing is to always differentiate between regular individuals and organized power, and between good faith discussion and opportunistic prejudice. Ben Shapiro is not just some Jewish individual, he is a big business, and questioning the motives and purpose of Shapiro, Inc. does not make someone any more antisemitic than criticizing the ADL or AIPAC.
Waffledynamics said:Full interview
— Gummi Bear (@gummibear737) December 29, 2023
Sagaar mentions Ben Shapiro at the 8:50 mark in the question that prompted Tucker’s attackhttps://t.co/mzPfYZpDqu
Sure seems like Tucker is jealous about something and is looking to grow/solidify his audience. First Crowder with his BS attacks on DW, and now Tucker?
What's with the right-on-right conflict?
policywonk98 said:
What Jeremy Boring and Shapiro have created at DW is the next evolutionary step from what Limbaugh created back in 1988, which was an evolutionary step from what William F. Buckley created with National Review in 1955.
I don't believe DW is able to pull down the sheer audience numbers of Limbaugh, I'm not sure anyone can replicate Limbaugh just by virtue of the radical difference in the way people consume information at this point.
While I have nothing against Tucker. What Boring and Shapiro have built is a game changer in terms of conservative media and entertainment. Tucker is still just a popular talking head. Unless I'm missing something, that's all Tucker really is at this point. He's not in the same category as Buckley, Limbaugh, and now Boring/Shapiro. I imagine there is some jealousy involved in this, but I don't know. His criticisms of Shapiro seem to be a silly hill to die on. But certainly he has his following. Just seems like pulling DW down to prop himself up is an odd choice.
BG Knocc Out said:Waffledynamics said:Full interview
— Gummi Bear (@gummibear737) December 29, 2023
Sagaar mentions Ben Shapiro at the 8:50 mark in the question that prompted Tucker’s attackhttps://t.co/mzPfYZpDqu
Sure seems like Tucker is jealous about something and is looking to grow/solidify his audience. First Crowder with his BS attacks on DW, and now Tucker?
What's with the right-on-right conflict?
I'll be honest, Ben Shapiro does seem a little whiny and likes to play the victim card sometimes. We get it dude, you're Jewish, your "people" have endured hard times.
This is correct. I believe Tucker (rightly or wrongly) has a bigger love for this country and is trying to salvage it.Layne Staley said:
I don't think Shapiro cares about the USA anywhere near as much as he does being a Hebrew and advocate for We the People sacrificing our soldiers and tax dollars for Israel.
I'm all for fixing our own roads and bridges here in the US instead of the "foreign aid" that ends up funneling back to our Lefitsts and RINOs. Shapiro is more of a globalist but at least he does occassionally point out the silliness of the Left at least.
tucker is exhibit A that deplatforming worksGAC06 said:
Tucker lost all credibility when he became a Trump sycophant
BoydCrowder13 said:
Shapiro puts his Jewish faith first and I doubt he would deny that. He doesn't even get on social media during the Sabbath. He is very pro-Israel and that is certainly a clear bias in his arguments.
That being said, he has done a lot more for the conservative movement that Tucker has.
redline248 said:
That is a really interesting read. Hardly anyone with a "voice" in media cares to think that critically.
Fat Black Swan said:redline248 said:
That is a really interesting read. Hardly anyone with a "voice" in media cares to think that critically.
There's no one alive today who can go against the grain as carefully as Daryl Cooper.
About 10 years ago he put together a 30-hour podcast called "Fear and Loathing in New Jerusalem" that's a necessary listen.
MelvinUdall said:BG Knocc Out said:Waffledynamics said:Full interview
— Gummi Bear (@gummibear737) December 29, 2023
Sagaar mentions Ben Shapiro at the 8:50 mark in the question that prompted Tucker’s attackhttps://t.co/mzPfYZpDqu
Sure seems like Tucker is jealous about something and is looking to grow/solidify his audience. First Crowder with his BS attacks on DW, and now Tucker?
What's with the right-on-right conflict?
I'll be honest, Ben Shapiro does seem a little whiny and likes to play the victim card sometimes. We get it dude, you're Jewish, your "people" have endured hard times.
I get this take from you, I am not Jewish, but I feel Shapiro has his right to have that take, just like a Christian would if they were attacked. Shapiro has his loyalty to the Jews, that is it.
Quote:
"The more I read, the more I was led to abhor and detest my enslavers. I could regard them in no other light than a band of successful robbers, who had left their homes, and gone to Africa, and stolen us from our homes, and in a strange land reduced us to slavery. I loathed them as being the meanest as well as the most wicked of men. As I read and contemplated the subject, behold! that very discontentment which Master Hugh had predicted would follow my learning to read had already come, to torment and sting my soul to unutterable anguish. As I writhed under it, I would at times feel that learning to read had been a curse rather than a blessing. It had given me a view of my wretched condition, without the remedy. it opened my eyes to the horrible pit, but to no ladder upon which to get out. in moments of agony, I envied my fellow-slaves for their stupidity. I have often wished myself a beast. I preferred the condition of the meanest reptile to my own. Any thing, no matter what, to get rid of thinking! It was this everlasting thinking of my condition that tormented me. There was no getting rid of it. It was pressed upon me by every object within sight or hearing, animate or inanimate. The silver trump of freedom had roused my soul to eternal wakefulness. Freedom now appeared, to disappear no more forever. It was heard in every sound and seen in every thing. It was ever present to torment me with a sense of my wretched condition. I saw nothing without seeing it, I heard nothing without hearing it, and felt nothing without feeling it. It looked from every star, it smiled in every calm, breathed in every wind, and moved in every storm."
-Frederick Douglass
Something like that. He even had Kevin Spacey on a couple weeks ago.45-70Ag said:
Didnt tucker recently do some weird piece on aliens living on this planet.
He's losing his mind or is truly insane.
Old McDonald said:tucker is exhibit A that deplatforming worksGAC06 said:
Tucker lost all credibility when he became a Trump sycophant
I don't care about the USA anywhere near as much as I do about being a Christian. That's how it should be.Layne Staley said:
I don't think Shapiro cares about the USA anywhere near as much as he does being a Hebrew and advocate for We the People sacrificing our soldiers and tax dollars for Israel.
I'm all for fixing our own roads and bridges here in the US instead of the "foreign aid" that ends up funneling back to our Lefitsts and RINOs. Shapiro is more of a globalist but at least he does occassionally point out the silliness of the Left at least.
