I know there are a lot of uneducated people that are on every sports message board- but to have adults claim that slavery was not a cause of the Civil War is frankly shocking in it's ignorance of American history.

LMCane said:

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anyone who believes that slavery WAS NOT the precipitate cause of the American Civil War is frankly ignorant.

I have read over 300 books on the Civil War and every single one of them discusses the prominent role of slavery.

so for those who argue slavery was immaterial

and somehow in an alternative universe "states rights" dealing with something other than slavery was the real issue -

what issue forced 11 Southern states to secede from the Union if it wasn't slavery?

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Economics.

LMCane said:

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I know there are a lot of uneducated people that are on every sports message board- but to have adults claim that slavery was not a cause of the Civil War is frankly shocking in it's ignorance of American history.

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You should learn better reading comprehension, then. No one is claiming that is had nothing to do with it.

BigRobSA said:

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No Spin Ag said:

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LMCane said:

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Well, the awesome thing about a Trump/Haley ticket is that instead of discussing apocryphal Joe Biden and millions of illegals invading the country-

we get to discuss how Republicans say idiotic things daily which are offensive to millions of centrist Americans who pick the President. Great strategy! It's worked so well in the past 7 years!

Next time someone tries to argue that slavery wasn't the cause of the Civil War, refer them to the Alexander Stephens "Cornerstone Speech." pic.twitter.com/1cAwk3auBa

— Emerging Civil War (@EmergingCWBlog) August 24, 2017

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Damn, he wasn't even trying to hide from it or spin it.

Gotta respect the honesty at least, even if his belief made him a disgusting human being.

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Disgusting by today's standards. Yep.

Back then? Nope.

Remember, every race has been enslaved at some point. Hell, blacks are still on the Dem plantation. Of their own volition.

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True, the standards of the southerners were different back then by certain people. They still were different than others in the country, but even if they weren't, I'd like to think that any decent human being would consider the slavery happening in the south back then was wrong and those fighting to keep it going were disgusting humans.

If someone can't say slavery in the south back then was wrong, that says all anyone needs to know about them. It's one of the easiest answers to give, at least if you're not a disgusting human being.

TexasRebel said:

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LMCane said:

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anyone who believes that slavery WAS NOT the precipitate cause of the American Civil War is frankly ignorant.

I have read over 300 books on the Civil War and every single one of them discusses the prominent role of slavery.

so for those who argue slavery was immaterial

and somehow in an alternative universe "states rights" dealing with something other than slavery was the real issue -

what issue forced 11 Southern states to secede from the Union if it wasn't slavery?

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Economics.

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Truth. An unpaid labor force is very economical.

Old Army Metal said:

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Slavery was at least a part of it, and her refusal to even concede that says a lot about her fear of the reaction of a certain segment of the GOP base.

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spoiler: There is no pro-slavery segment of the GOP base

No Spin Ag said:

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LMCane said:

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Well, the awesome thing about a Trump/Haley ticket is that instead of discussing apocryphal Joe Biden and millions of illegals invading the country-

we get to discuss how Republicans say idiotic things daily which are offensive to millions of centrist Americans who pick the President. Great strategy! It's worked so well in the past 7 years!

Next time someone tries to argue that slavery wasn't the cause of the Civil War, refer them to the Alexander Stephens "Cornerstone Speech." pic.twitter.com/1cAwk3auBa

— Emerging Civil War (@EmergingCWBlog) August 24, 2017

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Damn, he wasn't even trying to hide from it or spin it.

Gotta respect the honesty at least, even if his belief made him a disgusting human being.

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Now we know where Margaret Sanger/Plannned Parenthood got some of their gross ideas from

LMCane said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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If in 2023 you need to hear 'slavery is bad' in order to feel that someone is morally virtuous maybe that says more about you than the person you are posing the question to.

In 2023 99.99% of America thinks slavery was wrong.

You are hunting for racists that don't exist.

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have you read any of this thread?

NO ONE is claiming slavery is good or bad. Try reading comprehension.

the ENTIRE DISCUSSION is this: was slavery a cause of the Civil War? Yes or No.

Try harder!

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Slavery was a primary reason for the confederate states to secede. The civil war was over whether or not the states had a right to secede.

To say that the civil war was fought over slavery is to say that the hundreds of thousands of white Union soldiers fought for the purpose of freeing the slaves.

So, ask yourself this question: did the white Union soldiers fight for the purpose of freeing southern slaves, or did they fight to preserve the Union and prevent southern states from seceding?

Stop reading leftist tripe

Simpsons did it:

The poster you're referring to also blames Aggie Football on this forum, so that's the crazy you're dealing with in this instance.

All this detailed discussion into one of the must studied wars in history strays from the point.

As a politician, to answer a question like that and not use the word "slavery" somewhere in the answer is politically dumb.

At one point I thought Haley showed some promise, this one answer call in to question her ability to think on her feet.

No doubt this was a gotcha question, but Haley wasn't prepared and fell right into the trap. Having said that, I hope it takes her out of the equation. This race needs to get down to Trump vs. DeSantis, and let the best candidate win.

for the laughable claim that slavery was not an issue anymore after Fort Sumter:

"In fact, non-slaveholding soldiers from regions with fewer African Americans likely received greater exposure to slavery for having joined the Confederate army.

The Confederate military regularly used slaves and implemented proslavery policies.

The army conscripted slave labor on a massive scale for transportation, and in construction of military defenses.

It also captured and returned to slavery thousands of escaped and free black men and women. Soldiers acted on fears of "servile insurrection" when they summarily murdered United States Colored Troops at Fort Pillow and the Battle of the Crater.

The progress of war, including United States General Benjamin Butler's ad hoc emancipation at Fort Monroe, and eventually the Emancipation Proclamation itself, only confirmed Confederates' fears and served as a useful provocation to motivate troops.

Confederate General James Longstreet understood this when he rallied his troops before the Seven Days Battles in 1862. He told his men that the Yankees were determined to seize Southern land and property; as proof, he cited "one of their great leaders [who has] attempted to make the negro your equal by declaring his freedom. They care not for the blood of babes nor carnage of innocent women which servile insurrection thus stirred up may bring upon their heads."

Yes, Slavery played a huge role in the Civil War

In this situation, Hailey has a clear opportunity to emphasize how the democrats wanted to continue slavery (deny individual freedom through forced labor) and she chose not to. She is not ready to fight for team IF.

All of that is true but it points out she is a lightweight in conversation along with her Neocon war tendencies

LMCane said:

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anyone who believes that slavery WAS NOT the precipitate cause of the American Civil War is frankly ignorant.

I have read over 300 books on the Civil War and every single one of them discusses the prominent role of slavery.

so for those who argue slavery was immaterial

and somehow in an alternative universe "states rights" dealing with something other than slavery was the real issue -

what issue forced 11 Southern states to secede from the Union if it wasn't slavery?

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Please share the names of the authors so that we can determine where they fall on the political scale. Just guessing, but it's likely that most are raging leftists, and there is a not a leftist anywhere in the world who utters any words that can be believed.

LMCane said:

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Well, the awesome thing about a Trump/Haley ticket is that instead of discussing apocryphal Joe Biden and millions of illegals invading the country-

we get to discuss how Republicans say idiotic things daily which are offensive to millions of centrist Americans who pick the President. Great strategy! It's worked so well in the past 7 years!

Next time someone tries to argue that slavery wasn't the cause of the Civil War, refer them to the Alexander Stephens "Cornerstone Speech." pic.twitter.com/1cAwk3auBa

— Emerging Civil War (@EmergingCWBlog) August 24, 2017

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If it was all about slavery then why didn't Lincoln care about ending slavery?

FYI thus was her full answer. The "what do you think was the cause" is such a cop out.

Nikki Haley was asked by a voter in New Hampshire tonight about the cause of the Civil War. “I mean, I think the cause of the Civil War was basically how government was going to run. The freedoms and what people couldn't do,” Haley answered. pic.twitter.com/g9jUDqpa2F

— Kaitlan Collins (@kaitlancollins) December 28, 2023

With regard to the State of Texas - slavery was only mentioned 21 times in the articles of secession.

And while this section doesn't specifically use the word 'slave' or 'slavery'...

"In view of these and many other facts, it is meet that our own views should be distinctly proclaimed:

We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable."

The description in the OP is one of the better ones I've seen:

Quote:

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What caused the Civil War?
The Civil War began 1861, sparked largely by debates over slavery in the U.S. It was also fueled by connected tensions over westward expansion and the individual rights of states.

While manufacturing and industry was booming in the northern part of the country at the time, the American South mainly depended on agriculture and farming. The industries relied on enslaved Black Americans growing crops such as cotton and tobacco.

However, there was a growing opposition in the North over the expansion of slavery into new western territories. After Congress passed the Kansas-Nebraska Act in 1854, which enabled slavery in swaths of the country, pro and anti-slavery forces battled over the issue known as "Bleeding Kansas." After former President Abraham Lincoln was elected in 1860, seven states seceded and formed the Confederate States of America. Four additional southern states followed suit.

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I mentions slavery, but it also mentions it in the context of the fact that the entire economy of the southern states depended upon it at the time.

And it doesn't get preachy or assign blame.

Some people could learn from that.

IndividualFreedom said:

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In this situation, Hailey has a clear opportunity to emphasize how the democrats wanted to continue slavery (deny individual freedom through forced labor) and she chose not to. She is not ready to fight for team IF.

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I think I would have thrown the question back at the inquisitor differently. If asked, "What caused the Civil War?" state the obvious.

"The question of a Republican candidate is intended to be a trap. Are you trying to trap me, sir? It is a divisive question to evoke slavery and the Republican party into the same video clip on social media. Is that where we are going?

"Of course slavery and the rights of black Americans was a central issue of the war. If you recall, I was the governor of South Carolina where the Civil War began at Fort Sumter.... And do you know who was in charge of South Carolina then? That's right. Democrats..."

"Democrats were willing to take this country into war over the issue right after a Republican president was kept off the ballot in six southern states. Replace "southern states" with Colorado, Michigan and about five other states and what is happening during this election... Does this tactic sound familiar?

Well, I've had more time to think about an answer.... And read VDH.

Ballot Banishing And Our New Leftwing Confederates

In the election of 1860, southern Democrats in 10 states of the soon-to-be formalized Confederacy made it almost impossible for their own voters to cast ballots for Abraham Lincoln for President.

In that sense, the Left in…

— Victor Davis Hanson (@VDHanson) December 24, 2023

1) In the year 2023, it's astonishing to me that USA Today would write an article about that question without mentioning the word tariffs.

2) The next time a leftist tells you that the Civil War was about slavery, you can quote Abraham Lincoln to them...
"If I could save the union without freeing any slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that."

Nikki Haley clearly answered wrong on what caused the Civil War. As someone who’s been to the Texas Civil War Museum in White Settlement TX I can tell you the REAL cause was “Uncle Tom’s Cabin” (a BOOK by a WOMAN). If only this book had been banned there would have been no war. https://t.co/HKsawoZxTj pic.twitter.com/CMZH5NFhn6

— Concerned Parent in North Texas (@ZachRunsThings) December 28, 2023

He did care but did nothing about it until it was politically expedient. You save a drowning man before teaching him to swim.

LMCane said:

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Ags4DaWin said:

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If in 2023 you need to hear 'slavery is bad' in order to feel that someone is morally virtuous maybe that says more about you than the person you are posing the question to.

In 2023 99.99% of America thinks slavery was wrong.

You are hunting for racists that don't exist.

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have you read any of this thread?

NO ONE is claiming slavery is good or bad. Try reading comprehension.

the ENTIRE DISCUSSION is this: was slavery a cause of the Civil War? Yes or No.

Try harder!

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Was states rights a cause of the Civil War? Yes or No.

Slavery was mentioned as the primary reason in the articles of succession in many of the Southern states. It was the main divide between the North and South throughout the 1800s and the reason for most of the arguments about how and when to add new states for many years.

The states rights thing is technically true. But avoids the right that states wanted to protect.

If half the country seceded over a federal abortion ban, you wouldn't say, "they seceded because of state rights". You say the root cause was abortion.

The easy answer would have been:

The civil war was about who controls, individual states or the federal government. Slavery was the primary question being argued on that basis.

Was the south attacking Federal installations a cause of the Civil War? Yes or no?

Come on you are better than that stop being Nikki Haley superficial.

cecil77 said:

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The easy answer would have been:

The civil war was about who controls, individual states or the federal government. Slavery was the primary question being argued on that basis.

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That is probably one of the simplest, but best answers to the question I've heard in a long time.

Blue diamond for you.

BQ78 said:

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Was the south attacking Federal installations a cause of the Civil War? Yes or no?

Come on you are better than that stop being Nikki Haley superficial.

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Yes.

But, why can't saying states rights be an answer?

Since you didn't answer my question.

She should definitely have mentioned that the democrats were the party of slavery and that they still exert control over blacks to this day.

LMCane said:

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great VP candidate to ensure 100% leftist turnout against the GOP

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Are you implying that she's going to be Trump's VP candidate? Has Trump or anyone on his team said anything about that?