BoydCrowder13 said:

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deddog said:

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Philip J Fry said:

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Should also recognize that your 401K hasn't grown in almost 3 years. even if it up 17% this year. That's how much wealth Biden has wiped out.

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We've lost 200K in retirement plans since Biden became President.

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How heavy are you in bonds? The S&P is up close to 25% since the inauguration.

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What are you talking about? We've barely broken even after nearly 3 years.

So post the three year chart You must know that the s&p was under 3000 in 2020

4 points high and will be revised during Christmas when no one is paying attention except this board and a few others.

crickets

Philip J Fry said:

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BoydCrowder13 said:

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deddog said:

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Philip J Fry said:

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Should also recognize that your 401K hasn't grown in almost 3 years. even if it up 17% this year. That's how much wealth Biden has wiped out.

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We've lost 200K in retirement plans since Biden became President.

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How heavy are you in bonds? The S&P is up close to 25% since the inauguration.

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What are you talking about? We've barely broken even after nearly 3 years.

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The S&P 500 was roughly 3,850 at the 2021 inauguration. It was 3500 on Election Day 2020. It is over 4500 now and that doesn't include 3 year of dividends. Not that Biden should be praised for that. But we are well past break even.

BoydCrowder13 said:

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Philip J Fry said:

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BoydCrowder13 said:

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deddog said:

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Philip J Fry said:

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Should also recognize that your 401K hasn't grown in almost 3 years. even if it up 17% this year. That's how much wealth Biden has wiped out.

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We've lost 200K in retirement plans since Biden became President.

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How heavy are you in bonds? The S&P is up close to 25% since the inauguration.

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What are you talking about? We've barely broken even after nearly 3 years.

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The S&P 500 was roughly 3,850 at the 2021 inauguration. It was 3500 on Election Day 2020. It is over 4500 now and that doesn't include 3 year of dividends. Not that Biden should be praised for that. But we are well past break even.

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…and it was above 4700 two Christmases ago.

Liars figure and figures lie. Everyone's just picking the numbers which support their narrative.

2040huck said:

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So post the three year chart You must know that the s&p was under 3000 in 2020

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Why does that matter? Biden wasn't president in 2020.

Spell it out then. Otherwise, I'll just continue to assume you don't actually know when elections and inaugurations are.

My revenue is down 30% this year. Costs up 10%.

Diesel still over $3.25.

Yeah things are great.

FJB

tamc93 said:

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My revenue is down 30% this year. Costs up 10%.

Diesel still over $3.25.

Yeah things are great.

FJB

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And your sales prices are probably up 12%. Since food and energy is excluded from inflation they get to include your increased selling prices as an increase in GDP (even if you aren't producing any more and have less profit) all while telling you that inflation isn't that bad, since it excludes food and energy

Isn't that great?

Get Off My Lawn said:

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BoydCrowder13 said:

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Philip J Fry said:

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BoydCrowder13 said:

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deddog said:

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Philip J Fry said:

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Should also recognize that your 401K hasn't grown in almost 3 years. even if it up 17% this year. That's how much wealth Biden has wiped out.

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We've lost 200K in retirement plans since Biden became President.

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How heavy are you in bonds? The S&P is up close to 25% since the inauguration.

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What are you talking about? We've barely broken even after nearly 3 years.

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The S&P 500 was roughly 3,850 at the 2021 inauguration. It was 3500 on Election Day 2020. It is over 4500 now and that doesn't include 3 year of dividends. Not that Biden should be praised for that. But we are well past break even.

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…and it was above 4700 two Christmases ago.

Liars figure and figures lie. Everyone's just picking the numbers which support their narrative.

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This whole discussion started with saying there have been no market gains since Biden was president and that people were down over the last 3 years.

The end of 2020 and beginning of 2021 was silly due to stimulus. 2022 was a correction and rate hiking. 2023 has been a recovery (at least for the market).

It's just the silly statements from people that only look at their accounts every 9 months.

Opalka said:

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Well doesn't that just suck...the GDP grew at a rate of 5.2% in the 3rd quarter. Yes, it's not going to stay that way, but still EXCELLENT news. Christmas spending is in full swing this quarter, and reports have been very good there also.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/gdp-in-the-third-quarter-raised-to-5-2-rate-of-growth-21abd484?mod=home-page

Oh, and the current inflation rate is only 3.2%.
O&G prices are down...I've seen gas prices at less than $3 per gallon lately.
My 401K is up 17% this year so far.

Man, that's gotta be a downer for some of you Eeyore types.that are always pessimistic.
HAPPY HOLIDAYS anyway!!

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Sorry, cash registers don't lie

Haven't been in the politics board in a while, but man this thread is so damn funny.

Three quick points and I'll show myself out:
- The GDP figure that OP cited already accounts for inflation. Nominal growth in 3Q was +8% at an annual pace
- GDI should be (by definition) equal to GDP. That came in much weaker today which is odd, but most of that can be attributed to a reduction in Fed profits remitted to Treasury
- Staffers at the BEA are literally giant economic nerds that have zero incentive to fudge numbers. Revisions are part of the data collection process regardless of who sits in the Oval Office

Something about when all you have to sell is "time", means that down 30% and up 10% mean something different to me.

Edit: It is also nice to not be going 100 MPH and working 55+ hours a week.

Also anecdotes about certain individuals experiences and their industry performance are damn near useless.

I cover software companies at work… They're doing fine now. My colleague that covers chemicals? Not so hot

Thanks Biden!

shiphunt said:

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- Staffers at the BEA are literally giant economic nerds that have zero incentive to fudge numbers. Revisions are part of the data collection process regardless of who sits in the Oval Office

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Being economic needs doesn't preclude them from bias. That's a completely nonsensical claim.

My point is that they aren't making up numbers based on who is in office. They same people that were reporting solid growth and jobs numbers with Trump in office are still doing the same job

2022 was not a correction. It was a bear market. Market topped at around 4800 and dipped to 3500 (going on memory…should be close). That's a 27 percent drop. Market is now fighting back, but it has been fueled by a small percentage of stocks. Market and the economy were flying in early 2020 until the China flu hit. Raging bear market that was followed by a nice pop up. Biden will get credit for 2023 but his contribution is zero.

Bobaloo said:

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2022 was not a correction. It was a bear market. Market topped at around 4800 and dipped to 3500 (going on memory…should be close). That's a 27 percent drop. Market is now fighting back, but it has been fueled by a small percentage of stocks. Market and the economy were flying in early 2020 until the China flu hit. Raging bear market that was followed by a nice pop up. Biden will get credit for 2023 but his contribution is zero.

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Didn't mean the actual definition of a correction. Just figure of speech. Yes it was a bear market.

And the "economy was humming" pre-COVID narrative is some selective memory. 2017 and 2018 had steady GDP growth. Though nothing crazy. Mid to high 2%. And government spending we increasing significantly every year. By the end of 2019, GDP growth had dropped below 2% and recession talk was starting to perk up. The Fed was already cutting rates.

fka ftc said:

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PA24 said:

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Sounds like a small side bet...

Election year, Biden administration claims inflation is under control and will lower interest rates.

$100 bet?

I am not a Biden fan so no way is this an endorsement for Biden. Just politics.

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I would happily send $100 to the charity of your choice if the fed announces a 25 basis points or higher rate CUT in 1Q2024.

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Done

By the end of the first quarter.


$100 charity donation by the loser.

fka ftc said:

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Quote:

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• Under Joe Biden's failed economic agenda, Americans are spending $709 more per month to buy the exact same goods and services than they did just two years ago.

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Four years of that kind of increase would be around $34k we don't get to spend on other things. Could do a lot of things with that kind of money.

BoydCrowder13 said:

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Get Off My Lawn said:

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BoydCrowder13 said:

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Philip J Fry said:

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BoydCrowder13 said:

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deddog said:

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Philip J Fry said:

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Should also recognize that your 401K hasn't grown in almost 3 years. even if it up 17% this year. That's how much wealth Biden has wiped out.

---

We've lost 200K in retirement plans since Biden became President.

---

How heavy are you in bonds? The S&P is up close to 25% since the inauguration.

---

What are you talking about? We've barely broken even after nearly 3 years.

---

The S&P 500 was roughly 3,850 at the 2021 inauguration. It was 3500 on Election Day 2020. It is over 4500 now and that doesn't include 3 year of dividends. Not that Biden should be praised for that. But we are well past break even.

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…and it was above 4700 two Christmases ago.

Liars figure and figures lie. Everyone's just picking the numbers which support their narrative.

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This whole discussion started with saying there have been no market gains since Biden was president and that people were down over the last 3 years.

The end of 2020 and beginning of 2021 was silly due to stimulus. 2022 was a correction and rate hiking. 2023 has been a recovery (at least for the market).

It's just the silly statements from people that only look at their accounts every 9 months.

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The S&P has been essentially static since early summer 2021. ALL the growth that occurred in it happened in the first 6 months of Biden's term...as the country was coming out of the pandemic.

Agreed. Not arguing that. But the blanket statement "My 401k is down since Biden was elected" just means you have had a bad allocation.

DGP is calculated by the sum of gross value added by all resident producers in the economy plus any product taxes and minus any subsidies not included in the value of the product.

So for example if Gas prices increase by three times and that gross value is increased then "technically" GDP has gone up but the problem is that people's money has decreased in value because you can buy a lot less with a dollar.

Is this accurate?

BoydCrowder13 said:

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Agreed. Not arguing that. But the blanket statement "My 401k is down since Biden was elected" just means you have had a bad allocation.

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Of course, "My 401K is up 10% since Biden was elected" isn't really a great thing either...especially when that entire 10% occurred 2.5 years ago.

Don't forget the inflation part of the up 10%. Great it is up 10%, but so are all of the costs.

My financial advisor could not argue that point with me and we both agreed the days of easy 12-15% easy returns are gone for awhile.

The U.S. #economy is already in #recession. Though Q3 #GDP grew by 5.2%, government spending contributed 5.5%. So without that spending, GDP would've contracted by .3%. Government spending borrowed money does't reflect real economic growth. It will only lead to higher #inflation.

— Peter Schiff (@PeterSchiff) November 29, 2023

sanangelo said:

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The U.S. #economy is already in #recession. Though Q3 #GDP grew by 5.2%, government spending contributed 5.5%. So without that spending, GDP would've contracted by .3%. Government spending borrowed money does't reflect real economic growth. It will only lead to higher #inflation.

— Peter Schiff (@PeterSchiff) November 29, 2023

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Yep. They're stealing from us.

This!

sanangelo said:

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The U.S. #economy is already in #recession. Though Q3 #GDP grew by 5.2%, government spending contributed 5.5%. So without that spending, GDP would've contracted by .3%. Government spending borrowed money does't reflect real economic growth. It will only lead to higher #inflation.

— Peter Schiff (@PeterSchiff) November 29, 2023

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This is ridiculous…

The US government spends too much but to say the budget is as large as GDP is asinine.

No one is ready for or will accept what is needed to cause some needed deflation.

PA24 said:

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fka ftc said:

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PA24 said:

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Sounds like a small side bet...

Election year, Biden administration claims inflation is under control and will lower interest rates.

$100 bet?

I am not a Biden fan so no way is this an endorsement for Biden. Just politics.

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I would happily send $100 to the charity of your choice if the fed announces a 25 basis points or higher rate CUT in 1Q2024.

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Done

By the end of the first quarter.


$100 charity donation by the loser.

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I emailed a friend of a friend who happens to know the poster you made the challenge with. They are good with the terms, ask that you keep track, and then just send them a message.

They are worried that if they discuss further on a thread that doesn't contain an "OP with PA24 challenges fkta ftc to a wager on interest rates in 2024" that it may get viewed and flagged as derailing and they are already on vacation for that.

Ellis Wyatt said:

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sanangelo said:

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The U.S. #economy is already in #recession. Though Q3 #GDP grew by 5.2%, government spending contributed 5.5%. So without that spending, GDP would've contracted by .3%. Government spending borrowed money does't reflect real economic growth. It will only lead to higher #inflation.

— Peter Schiff (@PeterSchiff) November 29, 2023

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Yep. They're stealing from us.

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Annualized core PCE at 3.5%.