SCOTUS to review Trump ATF's bump stock ban!

3,893 Views | 49 Replies | Last: 13 days ago by Ulysses90
BigRobSA
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Kansas Kid said:

BigRobSA said:

Kansas Kid said:

Not really a second amendment victory. It was a statutory interpretation victory. The opinion includes comments that Congress could change the law to outlaw bump stocks.


That would be unconstitutional and I'd hope this SC would act, in haste, to kill that stupidity

If you take the shall not be infringed as absolute, do you allow citizens to arm themselves with nukes, M1A1s, Bazookas, etc since the second amendment is the right bear arms and not guns and all of the above are armaments?



Yes, since that's the reason for the protection, via amendment, in the first place. Pretty simple.
Ag_of_08
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GeorgiAg said:

I haven't read the opinion, but what effect will this have on Wide Open Triggers and the Glock Switch?


The glock switch turns the gun into an actual machine gun. It still shouldn't be illegal, but that's not an interpretation issue.
Tea Party
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Kansas Kid said:

BigRobSA said:

Kansas Kid said:

Not really a second amendment victory. It was a statutory interpretation victory. The opinion includes comments that Congress could change the law to outlaw bump stocks.


That would be unconstitutional and I'd hope this SC would act, in haste, to kill that stupidity

If you take the shall not be infringed as absolute, do you allow citizens to arm themselves with nukes, M1A1s, Bazookas, etc since the second amendment is the right bear arms and not guns and all of the above are armaments?

I think there will always be a line drawn as to what is allowed by the SC and politicians on both sides of the aisle because I doubt many people want Bill Gates with a nuke. I have no idea where the line would be drawn by the this court as to what is constitutional and what isn't.
The current President* says citizens need F-15's to take on their tyranny.

So yes, I absolutely believe "shall not be infringed" means the populace should be able to have whatever the government has as long as the populace can afford it.
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Rapier108
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I wonder if there is even one Democrat who understands anything about guns other than they go pew-pew.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
aggiehawg
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Quote:

I wonder if there is even one Democrat who understands anything about guns other than they go pew-pew.
Alec Baldwin.
fredfredunderscorefred
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Pretty sure the militia was meant to be able to compete with other militia forces, foreign and domestic. Not with a handgun with an 8 round clip maximum. Shall not be infringed is for a reason.
Matt Hooper
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There is savage and then there is Savage!!

Slow clap. Bravo. Hat tip. All of it.
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TXAggie2011
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Rapier108 said:



I wonder if there is even one Democrat who understands anything about guns other than they go pew-pew.


Alito said in his concurrence that bump stocks are as lethal and machine guns, and called Las Vegas an example of Congresses "need to change the law."

Heck, the majority opinion chose to discuss the details of the Las Vegas shooting even though it didn't have to.
Ag with kids
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Mathguy64 said:

BigRobSA said:

Kansas Kid said:

Not really a second amendment victory. It was a statutory interpretation victory. The opinion includes comments that Congress could change the law to outlaw bump stocks.


That would be unconstitutional and I'd hope this SC would act, in haste, to kill that stupidity


Not really. Full on machine guns aren't illegal. Just very expensive and complicated to get. If Congress added bump stocks and triggers to that class, Alito is signalling that would be legal. It's just not the ATFs place to do that.

Hopefully this is a signal that Congress is going to be put on the spot to do their job and not just let federal agencies make stuff up on their own with no oversight.
Well, if bump stocks turn a semiauto into a machine gun, that means they would be illegal since they're made after 1986...
Ag with kids
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Rapier108 said:



I wonder if there is even one Democrat who understands anything about guns other than they go pew-pew.
90 shots in 10 sec...

Is that with the 30 caliber clip?
Ulysses90
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Kansas Kid said:

BigRobSA said:

Kansas Kid said:

Not really a second amendment victory. It was a statutory interpretation victory. The opinion includes comments that Congress could change the law to outlaw bump stocks.


That would be unconstitutional and I'd hope this SC would act, in haste, to kill that stupidity

If you take the shall not be infringed as absolute, do you allow citizens to arm themselves with nukes, M1A1s, Bazookas, etc since the second amendment is the right bear arms and not guns and all of the above are armaments?

I think there will always be a line drawn as to what is allowed by the SC and politicians on both sides of the aisle because I doubt many people want Bill Gates with a nuke. I have no idea where the line would be drawn by the this court as to what is constitutional and what isn't.


The Constitution intended that citizens should be able to possess whatever arms are necessary to prevent the government from having a monopoly on violence that leads to tyranny.

The contemporaneous words of the founders make that intent clear. Parity of arms between the militia and the standing military was not only contemplated, it was expected.

Quote:

"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." --(Thomas Jefferson)


"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison, The Federalist Papers #46 at 243- 244)

"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison, The Federalist Papers #46 at 243- 244)

"Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence ... From the hour the Pilgrims landed, to the present day, events, occurrences, and tendencies prove that to insure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable ... The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that is good" (George Washington)
Kansas Kid
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Ulysses90 said:

Kansas Kid said:

BigRobSA said:

Kansas Kid said:

Not really a second amendment victory. It was a statutory interpretation victory. The opinion includes comments that Congress could change the law to outlaw bump stocks.


That would be unconstitutional and I'd hope this SC would act, in haste, to kill that stupidity

If you take the shall not be infringed as absolute, do you allow citizens to arm themselves with nukes, M1A1s, Bazookas, etc since the second amendment is the right bear arms and not guns and all of the above are armaments?

I think there will always be a line drawn as to what is allowed by the SC and politicians on both sides of the aisle because I doubt many people want Bill Gates with a nuke. I have no idea where the line would be drawn by the this court as to what is constitutional and what isn't.


The Constitution intended that citizens should be able to possess whatever arms are necessary to prevent the government from having a monopoly on violence that leads to tyranny.

The contemporaneous words of the founders make that intent clear. Parity of arms between the militia and the standing military was not only contemplated, it was expected.

Quote:

"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." --(Thomas Jefferson)


"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison, The Federalist Papers #46 at 243- 244)

"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison, The Federalist Papers #46 at 243- 244)

"Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence ... From the hour the Pilgrims landed, to the present day, events, occurrences, and tendencies prove that to insure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable ... The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that is good" (George Washington)


I can respect people who view it that way and totally believe that with the weapons currently available to the public, the US military would obliterate the citizen army if they ever did a coup (fortunately, our men and women in the military wouldn't do that).

I do wonder how people would react if Soros, Gates et al started handing out nukes, bombers and elite fighter aircraft to their allies.
TXAggie2011
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Ulysses90 said:

Kansas Kid said:

BigRobSA said:

Kansas Kid said:

Not really a second amendment victory. It was a statutory interpretation victory. The opinion includes comments that Congress could change the law to outlaw bump stocks.


That would be unconstitutional and I'd hope this SC would act, in haste, to kill that stupidity

If you take the shall not be infringed as absolute, do you allow citizens to arm themselves with nukes, M1A1s, Bazookas, etc since the second amendment is the right bear arms and not guns and all of the above are armaments?

I think there will always be a line drawn as to what is allowed by the SC and politicians on both sides of the aisle because I doubt many people want Bill Gates with a nuke. I have no idea where the line would be drawn by the this court as to what is constitutional and what isn't.


The Constitution intended that citizens should be able to possess whatever arms are necessary to prevent the government from having a monopoly on violence that leads to tyranny.

The contemporaneous words of the founders make that intent clear. Parity of arms between the militia and the standing military was not only contemplated, it was expected.

Quote:

"The strongest reason for people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." --(Thomas Jefferson)


"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison, The Federalist Papers #46 at 243- 244)

"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison, The Federalist Papers #46 at 243- 244)

"Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence ... From the hour the Pilgrims landed, to the present day, events, occurrences, and tendencies prove that to insure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable ... The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that is good" (George Washington)

Jefferson and Washington never said either of those statements.

If you believe in an absolute right, fine, but at least use real quotes.

https://www.monticello.org/research-education/thomas-jefferson-encyclopedia/strongest-reason-people-to-retain-right-keep-and-bear-arms-spurious/

https://www.mountvernon.org/library/digitalhistory/digital-encyclopedia/article/spurious-quotations/


(And the Madison quote is a misquote or paraphrase lacking context, combining several different phrases from within the Paper #46)
BigRobSA
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"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The only quote that means anything.
Ulysses90
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The idea that the standing army would attempt a coup was not even close to why Second Amendment was included in the Constitution. The second amendment was included to preclude the possibility that the standing army would act to impose the tyrannical will of a standing government. There was no federal law enforcement agency at the time the Constitution was drafted but you can also include corrupt and tyrannical badge carriers in the intent as well.

The point of having an armed citizen populous isn't to have a force that can defeat a standing army that protects a tyranny, it's to ensure that the tyrants and the standing army cannot use that army against the citizen without a cost in blood.

When tyrants have not only a monopoly on violence and the news media, you have the erasure of events like the Tiananmen Square massacre. That's why we have both the First and Second Amendment.

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