It's long overdue.

Yep since 1979, I was in my late teens and have never forgotten. That whole mess had me hating the democrats even then.

Because they have US backing since Obama had a coup attempt in Turkey and then we had to pivot FP to back a counterbalance power in the ME to cover our B.S.

ttu_85 said:

---

Yep since 1979, I was in my late teens and have never forgotten. That whole mess had me hating the democrats even then.

---

Yeah jimmy Carter was pathetic. Never thought we would do worse and then Obama and Biden.

SirDippinDots said:

---

ttu_85 said:

---

Yep since 1979, I was in my late teens and have never forgotten. That whole mess had me hating the democrats even then.

---

Yeah jimmy Carter was pathetic. Never thought we would do worse and then Obama and Biden.

---

Iran has been a Soviet proxy since the Shah fell. Soviets knew they were easily manipulated.

A war with Iran would be long, bloody, and altogether brutal and most likely, quickly spiral into a full blown regional war which threatens to expand beyond that.

aggiehawg said:

---

SirDippinDots said:

---

ttu_85 said:

---

Yep since 1979, I was in my late teens and have never forgotten. That whole mess had me hating the democrats even then.

---

Yeah jimmy Carter was pathetic. Never thought we would do worse and then Obama and Biden.

---

Iran has been a Soviet proxy since the Shah fell. Soviets knew they were easily manipulated.

---

I would say they're co-dependent

TXAggie2011 said:

---

A war with Iran would be long, bloody, and altogether brutal and most likely, quickly spiral into a full blown regional war which threatens to expand beyond that.

---

That's what sucks. If we'd just let our military off the leash then what you said above really wouldn't apply. But we win the initial battles of every war and just get afraid to dominate after that. It blows to have the muscle that our country has but not having a leader that will flex.

TXAggie2011 said:

---

A war with Iran would be long, bloody, and altogether brutal and most likely, quickly spiral into a full blown regional war which threatens to expand beyond that.

---

We don't have to rebuild them or occupy them. Just destroy them.

TXAggie2011 said:

---

aggiehawg said:

---

SirDippinDots said:

---

ttu_85 said:

---

Yep since 1979, I was in my late teens and have never forgotten. That whole mess had me hating the democrats even then.

---

Yeah jimmy Carter was pathetic. Never thought we would do worse and then Obama and Biden.

---

Iran has been a Soviet proxy since the Shah fell. Soviets knew they were easily manipulated.

---

I would say they're co-dependent

---

No. Don't think so. Russian could be fine on their own.

Iran's leadership? Not so much.

W should have started war with Iran.

We were in a war on terror. Iran funds terrorist organizations. It was an obvious target.

I thought that was our plan. We had Afghanistan, and Iraq. Add to that our carriers in the Persian Gulf and it's like, WTH are you waiting for?

The 2004 election ended the cooperation we had between dems and republicans at the time.

You can't conquer Iran. It's a massive country with 88 million people that has diverse terrain and a strong culture that doesn't like outsiders.

So any change has to come from inside. Say what you will about the Ayatollahs but when they took over they cleaned house and didn't care. The rich folks and those who had strong ties to the Shah left, many of them to the US. That also was all the secular types and Western friendly folks.

Iran has also allowed for immigration. They are fine with folks that are smart or talented or just want to live in the West leaving. A ton of them are Engineers I have put to work over the years, some great folks.

Anyone who hung around and didn't want to play ball? Yeah, so it didn't work out for them. They like making examples of them as well.

Iran is also the only true Shia Muslim country. There are others with significant Shia populations but Sunnis rule the Muslim world. They also are NOT Arabs and if you call them Arabs or insinuate they are Arabs you will make them very angry. Persians consider themselves culturally far superior to Arabs (and to be fair have reason to). There are many there who don't like this or that but they do feel tremendous pride in their country and culture and they respect the reverence of the Shia Persian culture having a homeland.

So essentially you have a country you don't want to have anything to do with invading or trying to conquer and that is going to be extremely difficult to change from the inside because the folks that would make that happen have either left or have been killed and the overwhelming majority who are there may not love the government but they do love their country and their culture.

TLDR, it's really complicated. Honestly I never understood it until I had a very, very good friend who is Iranian and I read the book "Whirlwind" by James Clavell (a very, very underrated book from a man made famous from Shogun and Tai Pan and his deep understanding of Japanese and Chinese culture from a Western perspective). Even then it's a lot more complex.

SirDippinDots said:

---

It's long overdue.

---

Why in Heaven's name are some people frothing at the mouth for YET ANOTHER war in the Middle East?! Were the last 20 years not enough for you? It is peak madness to be jonesing for another war against a much stronger enemy that will be orders of magnitude more bloody than the last ones we wasted the last 2 decades on.

TXAggie2011 said:

---

A war with Iran would be long, bloody, and altogether brutal and most likely, quickly spiral into a full blown regional war which threatens to expand beyond that.

---

Wouldn't have to be if someone would quit *****g around. Those long wars are planned. You think there's money in short wars? I've seen the same **** unfold decade after decade.

Drop the bomb on those mother****ers. Git r done.

The war would be quick. Where we screwed up in Iraq and Afghanistan is the nation building after. It's better to just take out the leadership, and then haul ass and let the chips fall where they may. If another terrorist pops up, smite his ass too.

Outstanding post.

I would have stopped at Geography or Terrain. That alone would have been too difficult for most people to understand.

Not to mention, who was the last army to conquer Persia? And how many millennia ago was that?

TXAggie2011 said:

---

A war with Iran would be long, bloody, and altogether brutal and most likely, quickly spiral into a full blown regional war which threatens to expand beyond that.

---

Quick turn sand to glass wars don't make money. Has to be long and drawn out.

It's kinda like healthcare: cures don't make money, treatments do.

SirDippinDots said:

---

It's long overdue.

---

correct

History is a farce which repeats over and over again.

just like the world knew about Hitler in 1933- they waited until it was nearly too late in late 1939

and just like today- where any rational being can see that Iran is trying to build nuclear weapons to threaten the entire planet, and yet the West does nothing.

SirDippinDots said:

---

It's long overdue.

---

Quote:

---

Why in Heaven's name are some people frothing at the mouth for YET ANOTHER war in the Middle East?! Were the last 20 years not enough for you? It is peak madness to be jonesing for another war against a much stronger enemy that will be orders of magnitude more bloody than the last ones we wasted the last 2 decades on.

---

x1000

Insanity. I'm all for limiting Iran's ability to make nukes, but do it in a way that doesn't involve "turning it to glass". Sabotage or Viral attacks to scramble computers. We've done it before. Something that doesn't turn the entire nation of Iran against us.

As far as just taking out the leadership & walking away... take a good look at what Libya has become.
The Devil you know....

SirDippinDots said:

---

ttu_85 said:

---

Yep since 1979, I was in my late teens and have never forgotten. That whole mess had me hating the democrats even then.

---

Yeah jimmy Carter was pathetic. Never thought we would do worse and then Obama and Biden.

---

at least Carter launched a failed military attempt to rescue the hostages

Obama literally sent the Iranian dictators billions of dollars in cash and gold.

SirDippinDots said:

---

It's long overdue.

---

Once this snake is gone everyone will be victorious. pic.twitter.com/cw4T21WEQm

— The Mossad: Satirical, Yet Awesome (@TheMossadIL) October 25, 2023

SirDippinDots said:

---

It's long overdue.

---

It's a strategic distraction.

LMCane said:

---

SirDippinDots said:

---

ttu_85 said:

---

Yep since 1979, I was in my late teens and have never forgotten. That whole mess had me hating the democrats even then.

---

Yeah jimmy Carter was pathetic. Never thought we would do worse and then Obama and Biden.

---

at least Carter launched a failed military attempt to rescue the hostages

Obama literally sent the Iranian dictators billions of dollars in cash and gold.

---

I agree. All hail the Muslim in Chief.

Apache said:

---

Quote:

---

Why in Heaven's name are some people frothing at the mouth for YET ANOTHER war in the Middle East?! Were the last 20 years not enough for you? It is peak madness to be jonesing for another war against a much stronger enemy that will be orders of magnitude more bloody than the last ones we wasted the last 2 decades on.

---

x1000

Insanity. I'm all for limiting Iran's ability to make nukes, but do it in a way that doesn't involve "turning it to glass". Sabotage or Viral attacks to scramble computers. We've done it before. Something that doesn't turn the entire nation of Iran against us.

As far as just taking out the leadership & walking away... take a good look at what Libya has become.
The Devil you know....

---

You mean the nation that chants "Death To America!" everyday? Screw 'em!

LMCane said:

---

SirDippinDots said:

---

ttu_85 said:

---

Yep since 1979, I was in my late teens and have never forgotten. That whole mess had me hating the democrats even then.

---

Yeah jimmy Carter was pathetic. Never thought we would do worse and then Obama and Biden.

---

at least Carter launched a failed military attempt to rescue the hostages

Obama literally sent the Iranian dictators billions of dollars in cash and gold.

---

My strategy for Iran:

1. O&G Independence. We want them to have as little ability to hurt us as possible and as little direct interest as possible.
2. Cut off every funding source we can for them.
3. Let the Israelis and Saudis do whatever they want to them for the most part.
4. Support any internal movements we can in Iran. One odd thing to me though about Iran is there are some really wealthy Persians out there that left Iran and lost everything with the Shah but don't seem to care much about trying to change it or fund it.
5. Understand that Iran has one huge vulnerability but you need to be very careful about messing with it, Kharg Island. It's a 7 mile wide island 16 miles off the coast of Iran where 98% of their oil is shipped from. The other issue at hand is the Strait of Hormuz and Iran's control of one side of it, all traffic into the Persian Gulf goes through it and it is as narrow as 21 miles across. If Saudi ever decides they want to play rough with Iran they will bomb Kharg and invade the other side of Hormuz but it will be really, really nasty.

Mainly though Saudi and Israel can do the heavy lifting on all of this and we should just let them. They don't need our money and we already sell them weapons. What we don't want is Iran bringing the war here or getting involved in that mess because make no mistake it will be a mess and it won't be a problem that is ever truly solved. The Persians hate the Arabs and both of them hate the Jews. They are 3 distinctive cultures and they are both intermingled and opposed. They will be fighting with each other long after all of us are dead so the best solution is simply trying to find a temporary peace and not getting the US involved anymore than we have to.

It is way more complicated than most people think. Iran was an allie that we funded and provided support for at the beginning of the Iran-Iraq war. Slowly we started providing intelligence and weapons for Iraq as well so the US military industrial complex was double dipping. At the end we had 2 allies that turned into enemies when they found out the truth. Carter started it but Reagan screwed the pooch on this one.

Iran figured out from watching the US that you cannot defeat us head on or economically, we took down the Russians in the cold war and have the most powerful military. Instead they focused on using proxies and overtime got very good at doing so. Hezbollah, Hamas, ISIS, etc. are just a few groups Iran uses and funds.

The US has never gone after Iran either, during the 9/11 report they found out 6 weeks before the attack the main 6 hijackers all went to Iran for a few days. Six weeks later we all know what happened. Citizens wanted to put a face to the crime so they went after Bin Laden and ignored the countries that funded him, Iran and Saudi. Heck they took Saudi out of the majority of the report since they were an "allie"

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:
Why in Heaven's name are some people frothing at the mouth for YET ANOTHER war in the Middle East?! Were the last 20 years not enough for you? It is peak madness to be jonesing for another war against a much stronger enemy that will be orders of magnitude more bloody than the last ones we wasted the last 2 decades on.

---

Apache said:
x1000

Insanity. I'm all for limiting Iran's ability to make nukes, but do it in a way that doesn't involve "turning it to glass". Sabotage or Viral attacks to scramble computers. We've done it before. Something that doesn't turn the entire nation of Iran against us.

As far as just taking out the leadership & walking away... take a good look at what Libya has become.
The Devil you know....

Quote:

---

You mean the nation that chants "Death To America!" everyday? Screw 'em!

---

---

The entire nation doesn't chant "Death to America", a minority group of zealots do. Go back & look at the hundreds of thousands that marched around 15 years ago wanting freedom & normalization. Many were killed, jailed etc. I think eventually Iran turns around from a theocracy maybe another 15 years... we need to be smart about how we deal with their nuclear ambitions. Turning a blind eye & pretending they are following UN mandates isn't the right way, nor is carpet bombing the country.

How about if we strategically bombed all of Iran's weapons production facilities?
Would that cripple them enough to make them some what irrelevant? I know we would have to be on guard for terrorist attacks, but if they have no missiles to supply to the terrorist, aren't we safer.

aTmAg said:

---

The war would be quick. Where we screwed up in Iraq and Afghanistan is the nation building after. It's better to just take out the leadership, and then haul ass and let the chips fall where they may. If another terrorist pops up, smite his ass too.

---

the paleocons are somehow trapped in a mindset that taking on Iran means a twenty year occupation of the entire country

when in REALITY-

the United States Air Force could take out the Iranian nuclear plants and strategic infrastructure in a six day air campaign.

This isn't 1989. We won't have a quick strike and it's over. You'll have 10,000 rockets flying over the Persian Gulf with the objective to shut down the world's economy over energy. At a minimum. And assuming they don't already have a nuke. And that doesn't include attacks that would be launched all over at oil pipelines, facilities and US bases by Iranian proxies. Not to mention potential attacks here. This would be nasty, involve casualties here, overseas and a huge disruption in the world economy. Iran knows it too. So not something to be launched casually.

RebelE Infantry said:

---

SirDippinDots said:

---

It's long overdue.

---

Why in Heaven's name are some people frothing at the mouth for YET ANOTHER war in the Middle East?! Were the last 20 years not enough for you? It is peak madness to be jonesing for another war against a much stronger enemy that will be orders of magnitude more bloody than the last ones we wasted the last 2 decades on.

---

Its a bit interesting how the comments swing from "Trump would have never gotten us involved in a warL, "Biden is an idiot for involving us in ......." to "someone needs to take out Iran".

Oil and power with a corrupt ideology.

The real goal: fewer and less ardent Muslims.

Potential options to achieve that goal:
1. Religious and cultural conversion.
2. Reduced birth rate
3. Kill them

As a Christian I would advocate for the first option. …but my pragmatic side says the second option is more realistic and my Marine side will always appreciate the appeal of the third option.