K2-HMFIC said:

---

fka ftc said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

So we should ignore treaty obligations then?

---

Yes. You think our enemies respect treaties? Worthless paper and not even good for wiping one's arse.

---

That's not my question..we have a mutual defense treaty obligation with the Philippines.

My question is...if the Philippines are attacked by the PRC should we ignore our treaty obligation with them and let the PRC achieve their aims?

---

China has proven itself pretty ineffective over thousands of years of being able to expand their territories.

We should act against China in the Philippines if it is determined that it is still in our strategic interests to do so. I am not sure I have an answer to that particular question at the moment, but I would not make the decision based on some piece of paper.

That was my point. Same with any NATO "obligations".

fka ftc said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

fka ftc said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

So we should ignore treaty obligations then?

---

Yes. You think our enemies respect treaties? Worthless paper and not even good for wiping one's arse.

---

That's not my question..we have a mutual defense treaty obligation with the Philippines.

My question is...if the Philippines are attacked by the PRC should we ignore our treaty obligation with them and let the PRC achieve their aims?

---

China has proven itself pretty ineffective over thousands of years of being able to expand their territories.

We should act against China in the Philippines if it is determined that it is still in our strategic interests to do so. I am not sure I have an answer to that particular question at the moment, but I would not make the decision based on some piece of paper.

That was my point. Same with any NATO "obligations".

---

I am not sure I'd use past performance as a judge of future performance...

Let's talk this thru...say we ignore our treaty obligations, what does that mean for all of other ones? We should ignore them too?

Because if you ignore one...the rest become invalid by extension.

K2-HMFIC said:

---

fka ftc said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

fka ftc said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

So we should ignore treaty obligations then?

---

Yes. You think our enemies respect treaties? Worthless paper and not even good for wiping one's arse.

---

That's not my question..we have a mutual defense treaty obligation with the Philippines.

My question is...if the Philippines are attacked by the PRC should we ignore our treaty obligation with them and let the PRC achieve their aims?

---

China has proven itself pretty ineffective over thousands of years of being able to expand their territories.

We should act against China in the Philippines if it is determined that it is still in our strategic interests to do so. I am not sure I have an answer to that particular question at the moment, but I would not make the decision based on some piece of paper.

That was my point. Same with any NATO "obligations".

---

I am not sure I'd use past performance as a judge of future performance...

Let's talk this thru...say we ignore our treaty obligations, what does that mean for all of other ones? We should ignore them too?

Because if you ignore one...the rest become invalid by extension.

---

Yes. HIstory tells you treaties are broken all the time when one of the parties decides such treaty is no longer in their best interest(s).

My point would then be why have a treaty in the first place.

fka ftc said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

fka ftc said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

fka ftc said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

So we should ignore treaty obligations then?

---

Yes. You think our enemies respect treaties? Worthless paper and not even good for wiping one's arse.

---

That's not my question..we have a mutual defense treaty obligation with the Philippines.

My question is...if the Philippines are attacked by the PRC should we ignore our treaty obligation with them and let the PRC achieve their aims?

---

China has proven itself pretty ineffective over thousands of years of being able to expand their territories.

We should act against China in the Philippines if it is determined that it is still in our strategic interests to do so. I am not sure I have an answer to that particular question at the moment, but I would not make the decision based on some piece of paper.

That was my point. Same with any NATO "obligations".

---

I am not sure I'd use past performance as a judge of future performance...

Let's talk this thru...say we ignore our treaty obligations, what does that mean for all of other ones? We should ignore them too?

Because if you ignore one...the rest become invalid by extension.

---

Yes. HIstory tells you treaties are broken all the time when one of the parties decides such treaty is no longer in their best interest(s).

My point would then be why have a treaty in the first place.

---

Countries should do things in their interests.

But if you have them...and you dump a treaty with another country, doesnt it render all other treaties invalid? If so then how do those countries view the US?

Do you think the treaties only come with security guarantees or do they have other benefits as well?

K2-HMFIC said:

---

Countries should do things in their interests.

But if you have them...and you dump a treaty with another country, doesnt it render all other treaties invalid? If so then how do those countries view the US?

Do you think the treaties only come with security guarantees or do they have other benefits as well?

---

I think too much deference is given to them. Time and history have again taught us that treaties are broken, not honored, unilaterly honored, changed, etc.

Trade agreements have some value, but again have to be honored by both sides.

Look, I get its an odd take but I just have not seen treaties have a lasting effect on ensuring peace, lack of conflict or minimalizing conflict.

Its not for lack of understanding what they are intended to accomplish, its for lack of faith in either side upholding their end of the bargain.

Sea Speed said:

---

I had a Chinese warship tail me for miles and miles in the south China sea. They are so annoying.

---

That actually sounds pretty scary.

I've been surrounded by iranian gunboats, buzzed by Russian and Chinese military planes, tailed by a chicom warship and approached by Somali pirates. None of that made me nervous. What makes me nervous are the bazillion fishing boats and third world ships in heavy traffic situations where you never know what they are going to do because they won't answer the GD radio.

fka ftc said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

Countries should do things in their interests.

But if you have them...and you dump a treaty with another country, doesnt it render all other treaties invalid? If so then how do those countries view the US?

Do you think the treaties only come with security guarantees or do they have other benefits as well?

---

I think too much deference is given to them. Time and history have again taught us that treaties are broken, not honored, unilaterly honored, changed, etc.

Trade agreements have some value, but again have to be honored by both sides.

Look, I get its an odd take but I just have not seen treaties have a lasting effect on ensuring peace, lack of conflict or minimalizing conflict.

Its not for lack of understanding what they are intended to accomplish, its for lack of faith in either side upholding their end of the bargain.

---

I think you're making an accurate comment about the generality of history...but I am asking about the United States and what enables our global power. So if you take that away...what does it do to the US?

You need to be specific here and not abstract.

Look at the period before 1945...the amount of major great power conflict...now look at the period after 1945.

Do you think that the US' presence in the world has minimized great power conflict?

Im no expert on maritime complexities, but I'm guessing if we saw a 30 min video we'd see the Chinese vessel altering course to mess with the intended heading of the (much smaller) Philippine boat.

K2-HMFIC said:

---

whatthehey78 said:

---

Sharpshooter said:

---

whatthehey78 said:

---

Sharpshooter said:

---

whatthehey78 said:

---

fka ftc said:

---

TRADUCTOR said:

---

100 Billion to Taiwan stat.

---

How many billions to Philippines too?

We also need to ensure Australia is protected so at least some billions to them

---

No $$ to any of them. Time they stand or fall "on their own". No more US blood or treasure except on US soil on behalf of US citizens.

---

Might want to ask McArthur about letting the Philippines stand on their own.

---

Pretty sure he's no longer among us...but, at this point with ridiculous US involvement in foreign militaristic adventures...I'm done. Not falling for anymore US lies as to why we need to spend US treasure on peoples who don't care and don't want us involved!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

---

So, you are cool with us becoming surrounded? Stay away from all foreign involvement and hope for the best? And, the McArthur reference was for..........reference.

---

Cool...no. Not an isolationist, but no longer an "interventionist". Our govt. has lied (Tonkin Bay/WMD's, etc.) and "misused" our young men too many times and it has become SOP. We've gained nothing in return and spent/lost far more than our fair share. Viet Nam vet here and have witnessed too much abuse by our 'so called' leaders, who seemingly only care about the $$ that can be pocketed by our participation in foreign conflicts.

ETA - IMHO, our leaders are not concerned about your and my safety, BUT ARE interested in "how much" ($$) can be garnered by your and my son's being put in harms way. SCREW THAT! Time to wise up to their real intentions.

---

So we should ignore treaty obligations then?

---

Times change. What WAS logical in the 40's (70 yrs ago) may probably doesn't in today's cultural/geo-political environment. Yesterday's enemies may well be today's ally. Point is...NOTHING made or formulated by man lasts forever. Are you willing to sacrifice America for Taiwan?? I don't want to see ANYMORE American blood and or treasure spent on foreigners while Americans are going homeless and the middle class is swirling down the toilet. We've already passed STUPID on the political scale!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll ask...so we should give ALL (every penny) of America's wealth to foreigners then? Charity is one thing, sacrifice is all together another.

whatthehey78 said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

whatthehey78 said:

---

Sharpshooter said:

---

whatthehey78 said:

---

Sharpshooter said:

---

whatthehey78 said:

---

fka ftc said:

---

TRADUCTOR said:

---

100 Billion to Taiwan stat.

---

How many billions to Philippines too?

We also need to ensure Australia is protected so at least some billions to them

---

No $$ to any of them. Time they stand or fall "on their own". No more US blood or treasure except on US soil on behalf of US citizens.

---

Might want to ask McArthur about letting the Philippines stand on their own.

---

Pretty sure he's no longer among us...but, at this point with ridiculous US involvement in foreign militaristic adventures...I'm done. Not falling for anymore US lies as to why we need to spend US treasure on peoples who don't care and don't want us involved!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

---

So, you are cool with us becoming surrounded? Stay away from all foreign involvement and hope for the best? And, the McArthur reference was for..........reference.

---

Cool...no. Not an isolationist, but no longer an "interventionist". Our govt. has lied (Tonkin Bay/WMD's, etc.) and "misused" our young men too many times and it has become SOP. We've gained nothing in return and spent/lost far more than our fair share. Viet Nam vet here and have witnessed too much abuse by our 'so called' leaders, who seemingly only care about the $$ that can be pocketed by our participation in foreign conflicts.

ETA - IMHO, our leaders are not concerned about your and my safety, BUT ARE interested in "how much" ($$) can be garnered by your and my son's being put in harms way. SCREW THAT! Time to wise up to their real intentions.

---

So we should ignore treaty obligations then?

---

Times change. What WAS logical in the 40's (70 yrs ago) may probably doesn't in today's cultural/geo-political environment. Yesterday's enemies may well be today's ally. Point is...NOTHING made or formulated by man lasts forever. Are you willing to sacrifice America for Taiwan?? I don't want to see ANYMORE American blood and or treasure spent on foreigners while Americans are going homeless and the middle class is swirling down the toilet. We've already passed STUPID on the political scale!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll ask...so we should give ALL (every penny) of America's wealth to foreigners then? Charity is one thing, sacrifice is all together another.

---

Times change...you're absolutely right. I don't want to wastelessly spend blood and treasure either.

I'll challenge you though...do you think these security guarantees help our economy? Do you think other nations are more willing to work with us because we provide them support?

I'll be honest...if I look at the evidence from the last 70 years...what we've been doing as worked and worked out in our favor.

No wars between great powers.
American economy is the strongest in the world.

Are those statements wrong?

K2-HMFIC said:

---

whatthehey78 said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

whatthehey78 said:

---

Sharpshooter said:

---

whatthehey78 said:

---

Sharpshooter said:

---

whatthehey78 said:

---

fka ftc said:

---

TRADUCTOR said:

---

100 Billion to Taiwan stat.

---

How many billions to Philippines too?

We also need to ensure Australia is protected so at least some billions to them

---

No $$ to any of them. Time they stand or fall "on their own". No more US blood or treasure except on US soil on behalf of US citizens.

---

Might want to ask McArthur about letting the Philippines stand on their own.

---

Pretty sure he's no longer among us...but, at this point with ridiculous US involvement in foreign militaristic adventures...I'm done. Not falling for anymore US lies as to why we need to spend US treasure on peoples who don't care and don't want us involved!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

---

So, you are cool with us becoming surrounded? Stay away from all foreign involvement and hope for the best? And, the McArthur reference was for..........reference.

---

Cool...no. Not an isolationist, but no longer an "interventionist". Our govt. has lied (Tonkin Bay/WMD's, etc.) and "misused" our young men too many times and it has become SOP. We've gained nothing in return and spent/lost far more than our fair share. Viet Nam vet here and have witnessed too much abuse by our 'so called' leaders, who seemingly only care about the $$ that can be pocketed by our participation in foreign conflicts.

ETA - IMHO, our leaders are not concerned about your and my safety, BUT ARE interested in "how much" ($$) can be garnered by your and my son's being put in harms way. SCREW THAT! Time to wise up to their real intentions.

---

So we should ignore treaty obligations then?

---

Times change. What WAS logical in the 40's (70 yrs ago) may probably doesn't in today's cultural/geo-political environment. Yesterday's enemies may well be today's ally. Point is...NOTHING made or formulated by man lasts forever. Are you willing to sacrifice America for Taiwan?? I don't want to see ANYMORE American blood and or treasure spent on foreigners while Americans are going homeless and the middle class is swirling down the toilet. We've already passed STUPID on the political scale!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll ask...so we should give ALL (every penny) of America's wealth to foreigners then? Charity is one thing, sacrifice is all together another.

---

Times change...you're absolutely right. I don't want to wastelessly spend blood and treasure either.

I'll challenge you though...do you think these security guarantees help our economy? Do you think other nations are more willing to work with us because we provide them support?

I'll be honest...if I look at the evidence from the last 70 years...what we've been doing as worked and worked out in our favor.

No wars between great powers.
American economy is the strongest in the world.

Are those statements wrong?

---

Let's agree...we don't see things in the same light, i.e.,
"No wars between great powers." - wars just the same (lots of them), Americans dead (some my friends), $$ spent, $$ made (by a select few).
"American economy is the strongest in the world." - By who's acctg.? (Ours of course) And I suppose, your opinion...'the American economy is strong and growing'. I rebut..."Wake up!" The US economy is BEYOND BURDENED BY DEBT with no end in sight. America's position in the world is moving alright...just in the wrong direction AND foreign intervention isn't helping!!!!!!!!!!

Again, WAKE UP to reality. Globalism is for suckers and idiots.

whatthehey78 said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

whatthehey78 said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

whatthehey78 said:

---

Sharpshooter said:

---

whatthehey78 said:

---

Sharpshooter said:

---

whatthehey78 said:

---

fka ftc said:

---

TRADUCTOR said:

---

100 Billion to Taiwan stat.

---

How many billions to Philippines too?

We also need to ensure Australia is protected so at least some billions to them

---

No $$ to any of them. Time they stand or fall "on their own". No more US blood or treasure except on US soil on behalf of US citizens.

---

Might want to ask McArthur about letting the Philippines stand on their own.

---

Pretty sure he's no longer among us...but, at this point with ridiculous US involvement in foreign militaristic adventures...I'm done. Not falling for anymore US lies as to why we need to spend US treasure on peoples who don't care and don't want us involved!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

---

So, you are cool with us becoming surrounded? Stay away from all foreign involvement and hope for the best? And, the McArthur reference was for..........reference.

---

Cool...no. Not an isolationist, but no longer an "interventionist". Our govt. has lied (Tonkin Bay/WMD's, etc.) and "misused" our young men too many times and it has become SOP. We've gained nothing in return and spent/lost far more than our fair share. Viet Nam vet here and have witnessed too much abuse by our 'so called' leaders, who seemingly only care about the $$ that can be pocketed by our participation in foreign conflicts.

ETA - IMHO, our leaders are not concerned about your and my safety, BUT ARE interested in "how much" ($$) can be garnered by your and my son's being put in harms way. SCREW THAT! Time to wise up to their real intentions.

---

So we should ignore treaty obligations then?

---

Times change. What WAS logical in the 40's (70 yrs ago) may probably doesn't in today's cultural/geo-political environment. Yesterday's enemies may well be today's ally. Point is...NOTHING made or formulated by man lasts forever. Are you willing to sacrifice America for Taiwan?? I don't want to see ANYMORE American blood and or treasure spent on foreigners while Americans are going homeless and the middle class is swirling down the toilet. We've already passed STUPID on the political scale!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll ask...so we should give ALL (every penny) of America's wealth to foreigners then? Charity is one thing, sacrifice is all together another.

---

Times change...you're absolutely right. I don't want to wastelessly spend blood and treasure either.

I'll challenge you though...do you think these security guarantees help our economy? Do you think other nations are more willing to work with us because we provide them support?

I'll be honest...if I look at the evidence from the last 70 years...what we've been doing as worked and worked out in our favor.

No wars between great powers.
American economy is the strongest in the world.

Are those statements wrong?

---

Let's agree...we don't see things in the same light, i.e.,
"No wars between great powers." - wars just the same, Americans dead (some my friends), $$ spent, $$ made (by a select few).
"American economy is the strongest in the world." - By who's acctg.? (Ours of course) And I suppose, your opinion...'the American economy is strong and growing'. I rebut..."Wake up!" The US economy is BEYOND BURDENED BY DEBT with no end in sight. America's position in the world is moving alright...just in the wrong direction AND foreign intervention isn't helping!!!!!!!!!!

Again, WAKE UP to reality.

---

Are you equating the destruction of the Iraq War or Persian Gulf to World War II? If you say they are the same...then you need to define that.

Is the US economy not the largest in the world?

If I am wrong here...please show me how.

K2-HMFIC said:

---

fka ftc said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

Countries should do things in their interests.

But if you have them...and you dump a treaty with another country, doesnt it render all other treaties invalid? If so then how do those countries view the US?

Do you think the treaties only come with security guarantees or do they have other benefits as well?

---

I think too much deference is given to them. Time and history have again taught us that treaties are broken, not honored, unilaterly honored, changed, etc.

Trade agreements have some value, but again have to be honored by both sides.

Look, I get its an odd take but I just have not seen treaties have a lasting effect on ensuring peace, lack of conflict or minimalizing conflict.

Its not for lack of understanding what they are intended to accomplish, its for lack of faith in either side upholding their end of the bargain.

---

I think you're making an accurate comment about the generality of history...but I am asking about the United States and what enables our global power. So if you take that away...what does it do to the US?

You need to be specific here and not abstract.

Look at the period before 1945...the amount of major great power conflict...now look at the period after 1945.

Do you think that the US' presence in the world has minimized great power conflict?

---

I do think US POWER and presence has minimized power conflict.

I do NOT think the US should arbitrarily break promises, commitments and treaties.

What I am saying is simply that we should not act in a manner NOT in our best interest because there is an existing treaty requiring we act in a certain way.

Make sense?

K2-HMFIC said:

---

whatthehey78 said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

whatthehey78 said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

whatthehey78 said:

---

Sharpshooter said:

---

whatthehey78 said:

---

Sharpshooter said:

---

whatthehey78 said:

---

fka ftc said:

---

TRADUCTOR said:

---

100 Billion to Taiwan stat.

---

How many billions to Philippines too?

We also need to ensure Australia is protected so at least some billions to them

---

No $$ to any of them. Time they stand or fall "on their own". No more US blood or treasure except on US soil on behalf of US citizens.

---

Might want to ask McArthur about letting the Philippines stand on their own.

---

Pretty sure he's no longer among us...but, at this point with ridiculous US involvement in foreign militaristic adventures...I'm done. Not falling for anymore US lies as to why we need to spend US treasure on peoples who don't care and don't want us involved!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

---

So, you are cool with us becoming surrounded? Stay away from all foreign involvement and hope for the best? And, the McArthur reference was for..........reference.

---

Cool...no. Not an isolationist, but no longer an "interventionist". Our govt. has lied (Tonkin Bay/WMD's, etc.) and "misused" our young men too many times and it has become SOP. We've gained nothing in return and spent/lost far more than our fair share. Viet Nam vet here and have witnessed too much abuse by our 'so called' leaders, who seemingly only care about the $$ that can be pocketed by our participation in foreign conflicts.

ETA - IMHO, our leaders are not concerned about your and my safety, BUT ARE interested in "how much" ($$) can be garnered by your and my son's being put in harms way. SCREW THAT! Time to wise up to their real intentions.

---

So we should ignore treaty obligations then?

---

Times change. What WAS logical in the 40's (70 yrs ago) may probably doesn't in today's cultural/geo-political environment. Yesterday's enemies may well be today's ally. Point is...NOTHING made or formulated by man lasts forever. Are you willing to sacrifice America for Taiwan?? I don't want to see ANYMORE American blood and or treasure spent on foreigners while Americans are going homeless and the middle class is swirling down the toilet. We've already passed STUPID on the political scale!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll ask...so we should give ALL (every penny) of America's wealth to foreigners then? Charity is one thing, sacrifice is all together another.

---

Times change...you're absolutely right. I don't want to wastelessly spend blood and treasure either.

I'll challenge you though...do you think these security guarantees help our economy? Do you think other nations are more willing to work with us because we provide them support?

I'll be honest...if I look at the evidence from the last 70 years...what we've been doing as worked and worked out in our favor.

No wars between great powers.
American economy is the strongest in the world.

Are those statements wrong?

---

Let's agree...we don't see things in the same light, i.e.,
"No wars between great powers." - wars just the same, Americans dead (some my friends), $$ spent, $$ made (by a select few).
"American economy is the strongest in the world." - By who's acctg.? (Ours of course) And I suppose, your opinion...'the American economy is strong and growing'. I rebut..."Wake up!" The US economy is BEYOND BURDENED BY DEBT with no end in sight. America's position in the world is moving alright...just in the wrong direction AND foreign intervention isn't helping!!!!!!!!!!

Again, WAKE UP to reality.

---

Are you equating the destruction of the Iraq War or Persian Gulf to World War II? If you say they are the same...then you need to define that.

Is the US economy not the largest in the world?

If I am wrong here...please show me how.

---

Sorry...I haven't the time OR the patience. Bottom line...our govt. lies to all of us relative to what they've done and what they are doing and the media assists them in that endeavor. IMHO, when they lie, people suffer and toooooo many die. Believe them if you want to. Regardless whether it's their numbers, proclaimed results or intentions...I'm not in that camp of blind toadies anymore.

I'm not advocating revolution...I just don't "buy in" with their rhetoric. Both political parties are corrupt. As an example, see current administration, Congress, DOJ, FBI, DOD, etc., etc., etc..

ETA - My son served in the USMC 10 yrs, deployed to Gulf War and now suffers severely from PLS (Primary Lateral Sclerosis), a neurological disorder likely acquired from airborne chemicals encountered during his deployment. SO, I ask WHAT WAS ACHIEVED BY OUR INTERVENTION IN THE ME????????????

I think K-2 ia coming from an honest asking perspective, But you have to realize that this Country has step changed from several years ago when it started to become apparent that there is a deep state and it can absolutely be weaponized in ways we never imagined.


The complicity of MSM in spinning narratives and the complete destruction of trust with the alphabet agencies and their working with AND DIRECTING social medial in an effort to sway public perception for political motives.

So, that said, any treaties and agreements now have to be viewed with heavy skepticism as both sides of the aisle have no issue than using others to further their power and expand their wallets.

fka ftc said:

---

I think K-2 ia coming from an honest asking perspective, But you have to realize that this Country has step changed from several years ago when it started to become apparent that there is a deep state and it can absolutely be weaponized in ways we never imagined.


The complicity of MSM in spinning narratives and the complete destruction of trust with the alphabet agencies and their working with AND DIRECTING social medial in an effort to sway public perception for political motives.

So, that said, any treaties and agreements now have to be viewed with heavy skepticism as both sides of the aisle have no issue than using others to further their power and expand their wallets.

---

FKA, thanks for the response. I am trying to have an honest discussion.

This is something I am pretty knowledgeable about and have conversations with people on both sides of the aisle on a daily basis.

I'm an optimist in our nation...regardless of what the wings say...I believe we are great and will remain great. We've got some serious challenges...I won't lie.

But the thing that has remained resolutely true through empirical fact that our engagement overseas has closely tied to our economic growth.

To be blunt...I will wage rhetorical war (nicely) on anyone who disagrees with that.

whatthehey78 said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

whatthehey78 said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

whatthehey78 said:

---

K2-HMFIC said:

---

whatthehey78 said:

---

Sharpshooter said:

---

whatthehey78 said:

---

Sharpshooter said:

---

whatthehey78 said:

---

fka ftc said:

---

TRADUCTOR said:

---

100 Billion to Taiwan stat.

---

How many billions to Philippines too?

We also need to ensure Australia is protected so at least some billions to them

---

No $$ to any of them. Time they stand or fall "on their own". No more US blood or treasure except on US soil on behalf of US citizens.

---

Might want to ask McArthur about letting the Philippines stand on their own.

---

Pretty sure he's no longer among us...but, at this point with ridiculous US involvement in foreign militaristic adventures...I'm done. Not falling for anymore US lies as to why we need to spend US treasure on peoples who don't care and don't want us involved!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

---

So, you are cool with us becoming surrounded? Stay away from all foreign involvement and hope for the best? And, the McArthur reference was for..........reference.

---

Cool...no. Not an isolationist, but no longer an "interventionist". Our govt. has lied (Tonkin Bay/WMD's, etc.) and "misused" our young men too many times and it has become SOP. We've gained nothing in return and spent/lost far more than our fair share. Viet Nam vet here and have witnessed too much abuse by our 'so called' leaders, who seemingly only care about the $$ that can be pocketed by our participation in foreign conflicts.

ETA - IMHO, our leaders are not concerned about your and my safety, BUT ARE interested in "how much" ($$) can be garnered by your and my son's being put in harms way. SCREW THAT! Time to wise up to their real intentions.

---

So we should ignore treaty obligations then?

---

Times change. What WAS logical in the 40's (70 yrs ago) may probably doesn't in today's cultural/geo-political environment. Yesterday's enemies may well be today's ally. Point is...NOTHING made or formulated by man lasts forever. Are you willing to sacrifice America for Taiwan?? I don't want to see ANYMORE American blood and or treasure spent on foreigners while Americans are going homeless and the middle class is swirling down the toilet. We've already passed STUPID on the political scale!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll ask...so we should give ALL (every penny) of America's wealth to foreigners then? Charity is one thing, sacrifice is all together another.

---

Times change...you're absolutely right. I don't want to wastelessly spend blood and treasure either.

I'll challenge you though...do you think these security guarantees help our economy? Do you think other nations are more willing to work with us because we provide them support?

I'll be honest...if I look at the evidence from the last 70 years...what we've been doing as worked and worked out in our favor.

No wars between great powers.
American economy is the strongest in the world.

Are those statements wrong?

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Let's agree...we don't see things in the same light, i.e.,
"No wars between great powers." - wars just the same, Americans dead (some my friends), $$ spent, $$ made (by a select few).
"American economy is the strongest in the world." - By who's acctg.? (Ours of course) And I suppose, your opinion...'the American economy is strong and growing'. I rebut..."Wake up!" The US economy is BEYOND BURDENED BY DEBT with no end in sight. America's position in the world is moving alright...just in the wrong direction AND foreign intervention isn't helping!!!!!!!!!!

Again, WAKE UP to reality.

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Are you equating the destruction of the Iraq War or Persian Gulf to World War II? If you say they are the same...then you need to define that.

Is the US economy not the largest in the world?

If I am wrong here...please show me how.

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Sorry...I haven't the time OR the patience. Bottom line...our govt. lies to all of us relative to what they've done and what they are doing and the media assists them in that endeavor. IMHO, when they lie, people suffer and toooooo many die. Believe them if you want to. Regardless whether it's their numbers, proclaimed results or intentions...I'm not in that camp of blind toadies anymore.

I'm not advocating revolution...I just don't "buy in" with their rhetoric. Both political parties are corrupt. As an example, see current administration, Congress, DOJ, FBI, DOD, etc., etc., etc..

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Ok...you're changing the subject here bud...I am just trying to get an answer to these two questions:

1. If you say all war's are the same...tell me why you say that?
2. Is our economy not the largest in the world and hasnt it been that way for the last 80 years?

Largest? Most in DEBT...a reverberating YES!!!!!!!! Size doesn't matter IF YOU OWE IT ALL TO SOMEONE ELSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And don't have the where-with-all (or fortitude) to pay it.

whatthehey78 said:

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Largest? Most in DEBT...a reverberating YES!!!!!!!! Size doesn't matter IF YOU OWE IT ALL TO SOMEONE ELSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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You mean the Federal Reserve?

Let's not forget the Chinese.

Most debt is owned by the United States. Not near as much as you think is owned by the Chinese and even still all foreign own debt is subject to us honoring that debt. Hint: We can cancel at anytime. War against the most armed country in the world is there option.

Why do people think we issue so much of it? No one can collect.

Recall the adage of if you owe the bank $1,000, that's your problem. If you owe the bank $1,000,000, that is the bank's problem.

We owe the world several trillions, that appears to be the world's problem, not ours.

fka ftc said:

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Most debt is owned by the United States. Not near as much as you think is owned by the Chinese and even still all foreign own debt is subject to us honoring that debt. Hint: We can cancel at anytime. War against the most armed country in the world is there option.

Why do people think we issue so much of it? No one can collect.

Recall the adage of if you owe the bank $1,000, that's your problem. If you owe the bank $1,000,000, that is the bank's problem.

We owe the world several trillions, that appears to be the world's problem, not ours.

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Spoken by a true Globalist! Now I understand your vantage point. Good luck with that view.

whatthehey78 said:

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fka ftc said:

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Most debt is owned by the United States. Not near as much as you think is owned by the Chinese and even still all foreign own debt is subject to us honoring that debt. Hint: We can cancel at anytime. War against the most armed country in the world is there option.

Why do people think we issue so much of it? No one can collect.

Recall the adage of if you owe the bank $1,000, that's your problem. If you owe the bank $1,000,000, that is the bank's problem.

We owe the world several trillions, that appears to be the world's problem, not ours.

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Spoken by a true Globalist! Now I understand your vantage point. Good luck with that view.

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Heh? No, that is actually an isolationist perspective. Not honoring debt owed to foreign entities is the exact OPPOSITE of being a globalist.

Maybe reread things and revise if you need to.

fka ftc said:

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whatthehey78 said:

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fka ftc said:

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Most debt is owned by the United States. Not near as much as you think is owned by the Chinese and even still all foreign own debt is subject to us honoring that debt. Hint: We can cancel at anytime. War against the most armed country in the world is there option.

Why do people think we issue so much of it? No one can collect.

Recall the adage of if you owe the bank $1,000, that's your problem. If you owe the bank $1,000,000, that is the bank's problem.

We owe the world several trillions, that appears to be the world's problem, not ours.

---

Spoken by a true Globalist! Now I understand your vantage point. Good luck with that view.

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Heh? No, that is actually an isolationist perspective. Not honoring debt owed to foreign entities is the exact OPPOSITE of being a globalist.

Maybe reread things and revise if you need to.

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Debt is a problem...absolutely agreed.

On the other hand...the stuff that enables our engagement overseas enables our economy to be the largest in the world.

Are you asking if I am ready for entitlement reform which is the largest driver on debt spending? Hell yea.

I was responding to the other dude, but yes, spending needs to be brought under brutal control and any spending should face an ROI test.

The debt stuff is a pure distraction. The Fed has so many levers at play. People look at the fed rate and most understand it and how it relates to their daily lives.

What people do NOT understand is QE/QT. I have recently coined the term… "Its the monetary policy you feel, but do not see".

fka ftc said:

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I was responding to the other dude, but yes, spending needs to be brought under brutal control and any spending should face an ROI test.

The debt stuff is a pure distraction. The Fed has so many levers at play. People look at the fed rate and most understand it and how it relates to their daily lives.

What people do NOT understand is QE/QT. I have recently coined the term… "Its the monetary policy you feel, but do not see".

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Yea yea derailing the thread…I started it don't care.

Ok…I agree there's a lot of stuff that goes on which most people don't understand how it affects their lives and I am a neophyte when it comes to monetary policy.

Two things…any basic literature I should read on this? And what do you look at in our monetary policy?

Woof. For reading I would actually recommend reading faction books as you find them. I like Steve Berry's books as he does research on the front end then explains at the end what he took from history and what he embellished and what he simply made up.

He has been fairly spot on through the years.

Monetary policy is a bit different. Unless you happen to have drinks with "inside" guys then it becomes a game of who do you believe. I cannot help with that.

For monetary policy, find guys in your circle who have "made it" or are simply doing well and talk to them and trust your innards regarding your risk tolerance vs need for higher yields. There is no set standard for risk v reward, it's a game you have to play and hopefully win more than you lose. Fortunately, intelligence will help sort that out.