Israel/Hamas going at it

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Tony Franklins Other Shoe
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LMCane said:

this is a pretty interesting tactical issue: the Hamas terrorist has an advanced RPG. so if the Merkava tank simply rolls up to the spider hole, the terrorist could be at the bottom and shoot the RPG right into the soft underbelly since the tunnel is likely reinforced with concrete.

what is the best way to kill the occupants of the tunnel if you are in a 40 ton tank?


Clearly that was a civilian trying to air out his, uh, his, well, he was trying to get some fresh air from his basement since that evil IDF harasses innocents.

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agent-maroon
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How many women and children did that strike kill?

/s
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P.U.T.U
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Also if the IDF has a similar support network the ratio of ground troops to support is around 1:10. Lots more in intel, logistics, and so forth
nortex97
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I don't really disagree at all. Longish thread:

JFABNRGR
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LMCane said:

the IDF has roughly 170,000 troops in the regular standing Army- so imagine if 15,000 of them are in Gaza and you also have Lebanon border, Syrian border, West Bank, Jordanian border, Egyptian border.

they have another 470,000 reservists under the age of 45 but when you call them up that harms the economy.


Of interest, at least years ago, when I was still looking to get in the fight IDF does not accept foreign volunteers.

Not sure if that is still policy or not, but I was surprised at this.
LMCane
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JFABNRGR said:

LMCane said:

the IDF has roughly 170,000 troops in the regular standing Army- so imagine if 15,000 of them are in Gaza and you also have Lebanon border, Syrian border, West Bank, Jordanian border, Egyptian border.

they have another 470,000 reservists under the age of 45 but when you call them up that harms the economy.


Of interest, at least years ago, when I was still looking to get in the fight IDF does not accept foreign volunteers.

Not sure if that is still policy or not, but I was surprised at this.

why would that be a surprise?

the USA doesn't take foreign volunteers. It's not like you can be Dong Xi and come from China and say "Hi I would like to volunteer for the SEALs please"

at least you have to be a resident of the United States.

I know of an actual case where a German citizen whose grandparents were Nazis is desperately trying to join the IDF while living in Israel on a tourist visa

I think there are too many potential problems letting any non-citizens into the IDF.

that said, there is plenty of manpower for a war- just not a year long war unless you call up reserves. this is already the longest combat action in Israeli history. although the Egyptian War of Attrition from 1969-1970 was pretty brutal.

the IDF had greater losses in that conflict than this one with Hamas.

what is amazing is that from 1948-49 in the War for Independence the Israelis had 6,100 dead with a total population of 660,000. so nearly 1% of the entire population was killed. that would be 3.3 million Americans today.

in the Hamas war, 297 have been killed in combat since October 8. 1250 on October 7.
Build It
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[We kept up your lengthy post on US hostages as it's relevant to the ongoing conflict between Israel and Hamas. But we're not going to allow an ongoing, daily side conversation on the topic as it becomes a derail from the broader conflict in the OP. If you want to go into depth on it, feel free to start a different thread on the topic -- Staff]

FJB24
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More good news.

https://redstate.com/margaret-clark/2024/06/11/breaking-idf-eliminates-highest-ranking-senior-hezbollah-member-to-date-since-oct-7-n2175354
LMCane
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For the least surprising news of the month:

LMCane
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literally thousands of rockets and missiles have been fired into Israel from Lebanon. No one in the media or Biden Administration even mentions it.

LMCane
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we have now lived long enough to see the Israeli Defense Force shoot fire arrows and use a "Trebouchet" to launch fire bombs like an episode of Game of Thrones

LMCane
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ABATTBQ11
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LMCane said:

literally thousands of rockets and missiles have been fired into Israel from Lebanon. No one in the media or Biden Administration even mentions it.




But they'll sure ***** when Israel launches some back
LMCane
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A_Gang_Ag_06
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LMCane
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Who?mikejones!
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https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/15/middleeast/eight-soldiers-killed-rafah-intl/index.html

Quote:

Eight Israeli soldiers killed in Gaza in one of the deadliest single incidents for Israeli forces since October 7
A_Gang_Ag_06
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Agthatbuilds said:

https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/15/middleeast/eight-soldiers-killed-rafah-intl/index.html

Quote:

Eight Israeli soldiers killed in Gaza in one of the deadliest single incidents for Israeli forces since October 7



These dumbasses are only making it worse for themselves.
Actual Talking Thermos
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A_Gang_Ag_06
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Why am I having a hard time believing this? Oh that's right. The media does nothing but lie to push their overlords agenda.
bkag9824
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A_Gang_Ag_06 said:

Why am I having a hard time believing this? Oh that's right. The media does nothing but lie to push their overlords agenda.


Hope that's sarcasm. The Israelis are really, really pissed with their government's handling of the hostages. They're generally in favor of giving every detained Palestinian back for their hostages…and then laying waste to Gaza.

They know nobody likes them and expects them to handle business at the end of the day regardless of what they do. They want the government to just return all the worthless terrorists they want and get to work.
YouBet
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bkag9824 said:

A_Gang_Ag_06 said:

Why am I having a hard time believing this? Oh that's right. The media does nothing but lie to push their overlords agenda.


Hope that's sarcasm. The Israelis are really, really pissed with their government's handling of the hostages. They're generally in favor of giving every detained Palestinian back for their hostages…and then laying waste to Gaza.

They know nobody likes them and expects them to handle business at the end of the day regardless of what they do. They want the government to just return all the worthless terrorists they want and get to work.


The problem is that Hamas refuses to deal because the current terms require Hamas leadership to be destroyed. They are not going to agree to their own death. Those guys aren't martyrs; they are cowards who have gotten used to the luxuries in life.
bkag9824
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YouBet said:

bkag9824 said:

A_Gang_Ag_06 said:

Why am I having a hard time believing this? Oh that's right. The media does nothing but lie to push their overlords agenda.


Hope that's sarcasm. The Israelis are really, really pissed with their government's handling of the hostages. They're generally in favor of giving every detained Palestinian back for their hostages…and then laying waste to Gaza.

They know nobody likes them and expects them to handle business at the end of the day regardless of what they do. They want the government to just return all the worthless terrorists they want and get to work.


The problem is that Hamas refuses to deal because the current terms require Hamas leadership to be destroyed. They are not going to agree to their own death. Those guys aren't martyrs; they are cowards who have gotten used to the luxuries in life.


Yeah, we're saying the same thing just a little differently.

The Israelis want the govt to work whatever deal the Hamas group wants to get their hostages. If that includes guarantees that the leadership will be left alone, so be it.

The general Israeli knows the govt will track down and kill the Hamas leadership in due time, regardless of what happens in between. So just get the hostages back and then do what needs doing.

They're asking the govt to play by the same rules the terrorists do: promise one thing, get what you want, then break the promise you made because you don't actually give a crap about the promise because you view the other side as less than.
YouBet
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bkag9824 said:

YouBet said:

bkag9824 said:

A_Gang_Ag_06 said:

Why am I having a hard time believing this? Oh that's right. The media does nothing but lie to push their overlords agenda.


Hope that's sarcasm. The Israelis are really, really pissed with their government's handling of the hostages. They're generally in favor of giving every detained Palestinian back for their hostages…and then laying waste to Gaza.

They know nobody likes them and expects them to handle business at the end of the day regardless of what they do. They want the government to just return all the worthless terrorists they want and get to work.


The problem is that Hamas refuses to deal because the current terms require Hamas leadership to be destroyed. They are not going to agree to their own death. Those guys aren't martyrs; they are cowards who have gotten used to the luxuries in life.


Yeah, we're saying the same thing just a little differently.

The Israelis want the govt to work whatever deal the Hamas group wants to get their hostages. If that includes guarantees that the leadership will be left alone, so be it.

The general Israeli knows the govt will track down and kill the Hamas leadership in due time, regardless of what happens in between. So just get the hostages back and then do what needs doing.

They're asking the govt to play by the same rules the terrorists do: promise one thing, get what you want, then break the promise you made because you don't actually give a crap about the promise because you view the other side as less than.


I'm good with that but I think Hamas knows this too. So their only remaining leverage are any hostages they have left.
A_Gang_Ag_06
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bkag9824 said:

A_Gang_Ag_06 said:

Why am I having a hard time believing this? Oh that's right. The media does nothing but lie to push their overlords agenda.


Hope that's sarcasm. The Israelis are really, really pissed with their government's handling of the hostages. They're generally in favor of giving every detained Palestinian back for their hostages…and then laying waste to Gaza.

They know nobody likes them and expects them to handle business at the end of the day regardless of what they do. They want the government to just return all the worthless terrorists they want and get to work.


I meant the way the media is portraying this being disingenuous. What you're saying is the Israelis are fine with whatever negotiating tactics are used the laying waste to Gaza and they're upset their government is doing that. The media manipulates the message to make it sound like the Israelis are upset with the government and want the war to stop.
bkag9824
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A_Gang_Ag_06 said:

bkag9824 said:

A_Gang_Ag_06 said:

Why am I having a hard time believing this? Oh that's right. The media does nothing but lie to push their overlords agenda.


Hope that's sarcasm. The Israelis are really, really pissed with their government's handling of the hostages. They're generally in favor of giving every detained Palestinian back for their hostages…and then laying waste to Gaza.

They know nobody likes them and expects them to handle business at the end of the day regardless of what they do. They want the government to just return all the worthless terrorists they want and get to work.


I meant the way the media is portraying this being disingenuous. What you're saying is the Israelis are fine with whatever negotiating tactics are used the laying waste to Gaza and they're upset their government is doing that. The media manipulates the message to make it sound like the Israelis are upset with the government and want the war to stop.


In fairness, I didn't watch the clip because what the media says doesn't actually matter here.

The Israelis want their people home. Whatever it takes. Full stop.

They don't care about day +1 after the hostages are returned. They want the govt to act like the savages they are up against and dispel with any political misgivings that may arise after making a deal to go easy on Hamas and then actually wiping them out.

They view returning hostages home, no matter the political cost, to be THE most important thing. They know Hamas, Hezbollah, PIJ, Iran, and all the rest will NEVER accept them as a country and people. So their view is: any deal, under any terms is acceptable so long as it brings the hostages home. They don't care if the world hates them for not upholding their end of a bargain because the world seemingly doesn't care if Hamas & Hezbollah do the same.

Why hold themselves accountable to gentlemanly terms when nobody else holds their enemies to the same standard?
FJB24
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Check out our lead diplomat on Hamas-Israel:

Quote:

Formerly employed by a Qatari front group, a state sponsor of Hamas, Amr, a Muslim immigrant who grew up in Saudi Arabia, had advocated for a deal with Hamas.
"I was inspired by the Palestinian intifada," Amr wrote, making no secret of his hatred for America and Israel. The Muslim immigrant found his way into the State Department under Obama. But then he mysteriously also appeared on the list of Biden's top bundlers.

Freedom Center Investigates had broken the Amr story and exposed his extremist activities, but there was still one big question hanging overhead. Where did all that money come from?
It's not unusual for donors to be picked as ambassadors, but those donors are usually wealthy people selected as envoys to friendly nations with no policymaking role. Amr however had bundled money and was then picked for a policymaking position to empower Islamic terrorists.
Hady Amr's financial disclosures reveal an estimated net worth of between $17 to $61 million.
How does a former ambassador amass those kinds of assets?
Last year, Amr drew a salary of $183,000 from the State Department. As he did in the last two years. And in 2016 when he was working under Obama, he was earning $160,000 a year. While that may seem like a lot of money to ordinary Americans, no one becomes a millionaire on such a salary while living and working as a government official in Washington D.C.
Nor are senior fellows at the Center for a New American Security, the Democrat defense think tank where Amr worked before joining the Biden administration, paid that much more.
Quote:

When Hady Amr first launched the Amr Group, he described himself as a "community organizer and human rights activist." By human rights activist, he meant that he had attacked Israel. But since then he has come a long way to a position any Intifada enthusiast could only dream of.
Amr's role in the Biden administration however raises questions of how much of the chaos in the Middle East the policies he has vocally advocated for have caused. Especially on Oct 7.
Hady Amr was described in the media as "the key U.S. official dealing with the Israeli-Palestinian issue" and "Biden's point-man on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict." Now that the conflict has gone global with a significant loss of American lives, there are questions that should be asked about whether Amr's financial support led to this inappropriate appointment and how many people may have died as a result of this Biden donor and the origins of his wealth.
Was Biden influenced by money originating from state sponsors of terror to appoint a terrorist supporter? And did that inappropriate appointment then help lead to the horrors of Oct 7?
Undoubtedly, the answer to that penultimate question is: yes.
ProgN
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FJB24 said:

Check out our lead diplomat on Hamas-Israel:

Quote:

Formerly employed by a Qatari front group, a state sponsor of Hamas, Amr, a Muslim immigrant who grew up in Saudi Arabia, had advocated for a deal with Hamas.
"I was inspired by the Palestinian intifada," Amr wrote, making no secret of his hatred for America and Israel. The Muslim immigrant found his way into the State Department under Obama. But then he mysteriously also appeared on the list of Biden's top bundlers.

Freedom Center Investigates had broken the Amr story and exposed his extremist activities, but there was still one big question hanging overhead. Where did all that money come from?
It's not unusual for donors to be picked as ambassadors, but those donors are usually wealthy people selected as envoys to friendly nations with no policymaking role. Amr however had bundled money and was then picked for a policymaking position to empower Islamic terrorists.
Hady Amr's financial disclosures reveal an estimated net worth of between $17 to $61 million.
How does a former ambassador amass those kinds of assets?
Last year, Amr drew a salary of $183,000 from the State Department. As he did in the last two years. And in 2016 when he was working under Obama, he was earning $160,000 a year. While that may seem like a lot of money to ordinary Americans, no one becomes a millionaire on such a salary while living and working as a government official in Washington D.C.
Nor are senior fellows at the Center for a New American Security, the Democrat defense think tank where Amr worked before joining the Biden administration, paid that much more.
Quote:

When Hady Amr first launched the Amr Group, he described himself as a "community organizer and human rights activist." By human rights activist, he meant that he had attacked Israel. But since then he has come a long way to a position any Intifada enthusiast could only dream of.
Amr's role in the Biden administration however raises questions of how much of the chaos in the Middle East the policies he has vocally advocated for have caused. Especially on Oct 7.
Hady Amr was described in the media as "the key U.S. official dealing with the Israeli-Palestinian issue" and "Biden's point-man on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict." Now that the conflict has gone global with a significant loss of American lives, there are questions that should be asked about whether Amr's financial support led to this inappropriate appointment and how many people may have died as a result of this Biden donor and the origins of his wealth.
Was Biden influenced by money originating from state sponsors of terror to appoint a terrorist supporter? And did that inappropriate appointment then help lead to the horrors of Oct 7?
Undoubtedly, the answer to that penultimate question is: yes.
Hady Amr's transformational policy - JNS.org

WOW! This article was printed on 3/2/2023 and when you overlay the actions by Hamas on 10/7/2023 and Biden administration's actions afterwards, your jaw should drop. Biden and Dems are NOT friends to Israel and have been working against them from the get go. I'd like to know how many of the Hamas savages that participated in the slaughter on 10/7 were directly trained by our State Department with our tax dollars. I suspect that Biden is scared the IDF will find even more damning evidence after they level Rafah and that's why we are all but demanding a ceasefire and withdrawal from Rafah. I hate viscerally hate Democrats and not dare post what I enjoy watching happen to them.
LMCane
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LMCane
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BadMoonRisin
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they estimate that there are around 1500 fighters for a city of 150k and the one furthest into Palestine?

Seems a little light, no? Honest question, I have no idea.

ETA: cant seem to find a good number of the pop of Rafah. Google says 152k as of 2014.

UNRWA says 1.6M people, but I dont trust anything they say. Seems like two wildly different estimates.
richardag
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ProgN said:

FJB24 said:

Check out our lead diplomat on Hamas-Israel:
…,,,
Undoubtedly, the answer to that penultimate question is: yes.
…,,,
Thank you for the information and links. This is quite damning information.
Among the latter, under pretence of governing they have divided their nations into two classes, wolves and sheep.”
Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Edward Carrington, January 16, 1787
LMCane
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BadMoonRisin said:

they estimate that there are around 1500 fighters for a city of 150k and the one furthest into Palestine?

Seems a little light, no? Honest question, I have no idea.

ETA: cant seem to find a good number of the pop of Rafah. Google says 152k as of 2014.

UNRWA says 1.6M people, but I dont trust anything they say. Seems like two wildly different estimates.
only 1.6 million in the Gaza Strip

Rafiach was pretty tiny- then a lot of Palestinians moved in once the IDF told them to head south. Also because the Egyptian Border could provide food and services.

IDF intelligence has always held that there were only 4 Hamas battalions in Rafah- the IDF has already demolished now 20 of 24 battalions

of course there are still thousands of individual terrorists running around, but as far as actual cohesive units there are only 4 left. 2 in Rafah, two in central Gaza Strip
FJB24
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[Stop derailing. Reposting material we removed isn't the way to go -- Staff]
BadMoonRisin
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AG
Thanks.

This was the quote that was confusing me:

Quote:

Once again, nearly half of the population of Rafah or 800,000 people are on the road, having been forced to flee since the Israeli Forces started the military operation in the area on 6 May.

1.6 does sound like the total population of Gaza. Maybe just a typo? But they did start the mil operation for Rafah on May 6th which matches up with the first part of the sentence so...maybe just a lie?
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